Is The Property Market Unfair to First Time Buyers?

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yeah, it's as if there wasn't this whole financial crisis thing which wiped out opportunities in entire industries. If only I'd had my crystal ball when I was 17 and had known what to pick, eh?

What did u pick?

brisan

brisan wrote: »

Moving back with parents to stop paying rent if an option is a good idea
My eldest girl did

It's really not, and it shouldn't have to be an option that a grown adult moves back in with their parents in order to save a deposit

Your daughter was not able to buy a house without your help, surely you understand it's not so easy for first time buyers

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

What did u pick?

Economics with modern languages. Had a grad scheme lined up with a major bank. It got cancelled within weeks of me finishing college.

brisan

bubblypop wrote: »

It's really not, and it shouldn't have to be an option that a grown adult moves back in with their parents in order to save a deposit

Your daughter was not able to buy a house without your help, surely you understand it's not so easy for first time buyers

I do not consider letting my daughter live in the family home as helping her

lainey_d_123

brisan wrote: »

I do not consider letting my daughter live in the family home as helping her

Of course you don't, and that's the entire problem. You think a couple of years of free rent, bills and food (worth over 30 grand for a couple, at least) isn't 'help'.

brisan

brisan wrote: »

I do not consider letting my daughter live in the family home as helping her

Well it is!
Do you understand how much money she saved by not paying rent & bills for.two years?
That's helping her, how long would she have been.saving if her & the fiance stayed living together?
How did you help your other children? I'm presuming you did, you seem like a decent father, that would help if he could?

brisan

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Of course you don't, and that's the entire problem. You think a couple of years of free rent, bills and food (worth over 30 grand for a couple, at least) isn't 'help'.

I never mentioned rent free
But yes what she paid was only a fraction of what living out in the world would have cost her
There again we had no problem doing it as I am sure most parents would do the same

brisan

bubblypop wrote: »

Well it is!
Do you understand how much money she saved by not paying rent & bills for.two years?
That's helping her, how long would she have been.saving if her & the fiance stayed living together?
How did you help your other children? I'm presuming you did, you seem like a decent father, that would help if he could?

They all had and will continue to have a home here if they ever need it
Granted we gave them cash towards deposits and when we sold our last house our daughter bought it at a discount.
However that will be squared off when the will is read and they all know that :D:D

brisan

brisan wrote: »

They all had and will continue to have a home here if they ever need it
Granted we gave them cash towards deposits and when we sold our last house our daughter bought it at a discount.
However that will be squared off when the will is read and they all know that :D:D

There you go!
You helped out all your children when they were buying their homes!
And yet you believe others should be able to do it without any help?

I'm not a first time buyers BTW, but I can see how hard it is for them now compared to years ago.

lainey_d_123

brisan wrote: »

I never mentioned rent free
But yes what she paid was only a fraction of what living out in the world would have cost her
There again we had no problem doing it as I am sure most parents would do the same

And so here you are admitting that your daughter could only afford to buy because you gave her and her partner a gift worth tens of thousands of euros, which many people cannot avail of, and you don't see the massive holes in your logic here.

I too could have bought by now if I could have lived with Mammy for free for a few years. Like many, I didn't have the option.

lainey_d_123

bubblypop wrote: »

There you go!
You helped out all your children when they were buying their homes!
And yet you believe others should be able to do it without any help?

I'm not a first time buyers BTW, but I can see how hard it is for them now compared to years ago.

I don't know if this poster is having a joke.

In one breath 'people are so spoiled and entitled, they should just work harder and make sacrifices, I don't understand what's so hard', and in the next 'I let all my kids live with me rent free, gave them cash towards deposits and let my daughter buy a house at a discount'.

You couldn't make it up.

kippy

Augeo wrote: »

It's grim enough when over €150k is needed to buy a 3 bed in the likes of Youghal tbh.

https://www.daft.ie/cork/houses-for-sale/youghal/8-obriens-terrace-youghal-cork-2609791/#img=9

How much do you think it costs to build a house?
(I know build cost isn't always reflective of selling cost, particularly in uncertain times and dependant on location/demand etc) but there is a cost associated with building a house. Generally the selling price would be more than this, although there are plenty exceptions for one reason or another

Taylor365

brisan

bubblypop wrote: »

There you go!
You helped out all your children when they were buying their homes!
And yet you believe others should be able to do it without any help?

I'm not a first time buyers BTW, but I can see how hard it is for them now compared to years ago.

I made sure they all had their deposit and AIP before we helped out
Long story short ,they all have a work ethic instilled in them by their parents
All 3 had part time jobs at 16 , not for the money but to make them realize the value of an euro
A work ethic , a good education and a set of moral values
That's their inheritance , what they do with it is up to them
They all knew unless they had the deposit on the house saved first they were not getting anything
Thats off topic but it was always hard for FTB
Lainey sorry it did not work out for you i your chosen career but for thousands it did
Apprentice who qualified in my company where on 80k plus within 2 years if they were kept on ,that's at 22-23yr
My daughter and her husband are both employed by the state ( both pre 2011 ) so doing OK
Buying a house is never easy but it can be done as the other threads show
As a single person buying its nearly impossible and always was unless you are on good money
60K salary will get you a mortgage of 210, 30k deposit and say 20k HTB and you are up to 260 , that will buy you a 2 bed in Dublin ,not DLR or D4 but in some nice areas

dubh laoch

Just had a quick read of this thread. Brisan and Augeo are definitely on a wind up. Don't reply to them would be my advice!

brisan

dubh laoch wrote: »

Just had a quick read of this thread. Brisan and Augeo are definitely on a wind up. Don't reply to them would be my advice!

Say what you want about me but if you think Augeo is a WUM then you are solely mistaken ,and have no experience of his posting history

jill_valentine

brisan wrote: »

Why not
If you want to buy a house-apartment-flat you have to make sacrifices ,you always did and you always will
I lived with my parents until I got married as did my wife with hers
Granted we got married at 22 and had our house 6 months before that
My eldest girl was living with her now husband when she got engaged
They both moved home for 2 years to save for a deposit and a wedding
To my generation its having your cake and eating it ,to others its their entitlement
Have a look at the saving for a mortgage thread
Plenty in there making sacrifices to buy a house

I will refer you back to my post about Daft figures, which reflect the realities of the market in 2020 rather than your memories of your specific circumstances a few decades ago.

It is not a question of not working hard enough for the properties. The properties simply do not exist.

You suggest that's a matter of two salaries competing against one as an upshot of women joining the workforce - in which case every developed nation in the world would be encountering the same crisis we are. They are not. Roughly 50% of Norway's workforce is female for example, about 5% more than Ireland's at the last figures I could find, but their rates of home ownership are considerably higher, 10-15% higher. And that's alongside an established culture of young renters.

You suggest it was never possible for a single person to buy a single bed dwelling - it absolutely was. They may not have been nice or in nice areas, but they existed, and in equivalent brackets. I know because for the most part they're the ones that still (very occasionally) come up today, retro 80s storage heaters and all.

The Daft breakdown I've showed you, and that you've conveniently skimmed right past, spells out in the hardest possible terms even that's no longer true. The properties that would service this market are not there to be bought, no matter how much work or sacrifice people put in, because as a society we stopped building them in favour of places designed to sandwich in the most tenants per square inch for a landlord or investor. We lost interest in building for owner occupiers on the entry level because any free market, left entirely to its own devices, tends to sociopathy; it is simply sane business to build for rent or high end when the yield is so much better. That it is ultimately an inherently self destructive process or that it does wider society a tangible harm is irrelevant to The Market. Which is why we have governments, to hedge against such things and see the bigger picture.

Not addressing the problem then is a policy decision. The fact single men are disproportionately represented in homelessness figures, while I'm looking out my window at a freshly built student block with not a sinner in it, is a direct result of this policy decision.

The fact it is effectively impossible to self isolate for most urban dwellers during a pandemic is a policy decision.

The fact the government is paying hand over fist to place social housing in units somebody else built - because the problem has finally come to an unavoidable head - is a policy decision.

Not having a fit-for-purpose public transport system to expand the commuter belt, or an infrastructure network to distribute employment activity, is a policy decision.

None of these things were inevitable natural disasters that landed on us, they are the products of having successive governments in this country who are ideologically incapable of taking steps to address the price of housing, because it might affect house prices.

jill_valentine

brisan wrote: »

They all had and will continue to have a home here if they ever need it
Granted we gave them cash towards deposits and when we sold our last house our daughter bought it at a discount.
However that will be squared off when the will is read and they all know that :D:D

Why can't people just make the sacrifice of having somebody else shelter them and hand them a deposit and a discounted house.

I very much wish I'd seen this in time to know not to bother being patient to somebody taking the piss. Will know better from now on.

brisan

There are 74 properties in Dublin for sale for under 225 k .38 for sale under 200k
The properties are there that can be be bought on a decent wage for a single buyer
I agree totally with you regarding the Governments mismanagement of housing policy
However it has been going on since the early 70s when CJH guaranteed Gallagher buyers for all his unsold properties in D13 ,and it will never change under FFG
The Government is controlled by a few vested interest groups and always has been ,first the church ,then the banks ,then the builders and now the MNCs
We voted them in though and that's the problem ,people keep voting them back in even though they know they are useless

brisan

brisan wrote: »

60K salary will get you a mortgage of 210, 30k deposit and say 20k HTB and you are up to 260 , that will buy you a 2 bed in Dublin ,not DLR or D4 but in some nice areas

Pretty sure you don't know how the help to buy scheme works!

brisan

jill_valentine wrote: »

Why can't people just make the sacrifice of having somebody else shelter them and hand them a deposit and a discounted house.

I very much wish I'd seen this in time to know not to bother being patient to somebody taking the piss. Will know better from now on.

You think its wrong for a parent to give their child a bed
You think its wrong for a parent to help a child with a gift AFTER they have saved their deposit
you think it is wrong to help a child move to a better area with better schools for their children
if so that says more about you than it does about me

brisan

bubblypop wrote: »

Pretty sure you don't know how the help to buy scheme works!

Don't know the ins and outs but as far as I know you can claim up to 30k back from taxes you have paid in the last 2-3 years
Is that correct

brisan

brisan wrote: »

Don't know the ins and outs but as far as I know you can claim up to 30k back from taxes you have paid in the last 2-3 years
Is that correct

But it has to be a new build house, you won't find too many of them for 260,000 in Dublin!

brisan

bubblypop wrote: »

But it has to be a new build house, you won't find too many of them for 260,000 in Dublin!

No you are correct
Only 4 that I can see

https://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/new-homes-for-sale/?ad_type=new_development&advanced=1&s%5Bmxp%5D=275000&searchSource=newhomes

Donald Trump

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont doubt it was ever that " easy" but surely there would have bern nowhere near the sane kevels of outgoings then ? Like my parents bought the family home in dublin 14 in 1989 for 16k pounds. That property in same condition today , I reckon would be 325k euro. It was a total gut job and extension rebuild job, and im not talking decor from the 60 or 70's!

Like 16k in 89 must have been around the average industrial wage, the same house now in same derelict condition, would cost nearly ten times the average industrial wage!

Its very easy to sort out, government dont want too though, forca myriad pf reasons, thats very obvious at this stage ..

You also need to take into account that the perception of an area today might not be the same as it was in the time you are comparing to.


When the government built all the houses out in Ballyfermot it was on CPO'd farm land. And the people they moved out from the tenements didn't want to move because they perceived it to be moving to the back-arse-of-nowhere.


Here is a video of Tallaght in 1975. Someone moving to Tallaght back then might be similar to someone moving to celbridge or Maynooth today in terms of how "far away" it was. Obviously I'm not talking about physical distance. There was no Luas back then. Just loads of piebalds. I presume the piebalds are still there as well as the Luas now.

brisan

brisan wrote: »

No you are correct
Only 4 that I can see

https://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/new-homes-for-sale/?ad_type=new_development&advanced=1&s%5Bmxp%5D=275000&searchSource=newhomes

And only one of those actually

lainey_d_123

brisan wrote: »

You think its wrong for a parent to give their child a bed
You think its wrong for a parent to help a child with a gift AFTER they have saved their deposit
you think it is wrong to help a child move to a better area with better schools for their children
if so that says more about you than it does about me

Nobody said it was wrong. But it disadvantages those who don't have these options. People who are often already disadvantaged from having abusive parents, or parents who died young, are now even further disadvantaged again.

You were talking as if it were a meritocracy, as if people just needed to pull their socks up and 'make sacrifices' to own a home rather than have the good fortune to be born to well off parents who had the means to support them into adulthood and give them cash for deposits.

Could your children have bought when they did if you hadn't helped them at all? If not, you have absolutely no right to tell people they just need to work harder.

brisan

bubblypop wrote: »

And only one of those actually

All new homes according to DAFT

brisan

brisan wrote: »

All new homes according to DAFT

But only one is 260,000 or less

brisan

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Nobody said it was wrong. But it disadvantages those who don't have these options. People who are often already disadvantaged from having abusive parents, or parents who died young, are now even further disadvantaged again.

You were talking as if it were a meritocracy, as if people just needed to pull their socks up and 'make sacrifices' to own a home rather than have the good fortune to be born to well off parents who had the means to support them into adulthood and give them cash for deposits.

Could your children have bought when they did if you hadn't helped them at all? If not, you have absolutely no right to tell people they just need to work harder.

Yes