Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

charlie14 · 19-10-2020 04:13PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Charlie this is the second wall of nonsense you took the time out of your day to type when I simply asked for a link to a printed article to back up what you said.

Both times you could have just said “No i don’t have one,”

I have twice told you why I am sick and tired of playing games providing verifiable data to have it ignored, (with you being a prime example) with further posts as if the claim had not been already rubbished.
There are posters on here regardless of what they are shown will still stick to their narrow little viewpoint. I just do not see it as any reason to waste time running around in little circles of their making anymore.
You keep on making your points Fintan, not one that has given even the vaguest suggest of a viable alternative to this pandemic.
They are just a knock everything irrelevance to me and a stupid little game that I have better for doing.

Rrrrrr2 · 19-10-2020 04:18PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

IT/Newstalk now saying that it's looking like a full level 5 for 6 weeks.

This is absolutely farcical at this stage.

Indeed- I hope the Covid bedwetters are happy- they’ve got what they wanted- more economic carnage for nothing

FintanMcluskey · 19-10-2020 04:21PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Indeed- I hope the Covid bedwetters are happy- they’ve got what they wanted- more economic carnage for nothing

One of the highest job losses, hardest hit domestic economy and longest lockdown in EU, before all this kicks in.

Staggering

santana75 · 19-10-2020 04:21PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Indeed- I hope the Covid bedwetters are happy- they’ve got what they wanted- more economic carnage for nothing

The lockdown approach does not seem to be working. At some stage the powers that be will have to admit this and try another approach.

charlie14 · 19-10-2020 04:22PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

And it helps to collect as much data as we can. If we know x amount are asymptomatic then we can research why these people are not showing symptoms, if there is a common trend then we have a road to go down! This is how medical research works, infact during a pandemic is the best time to collect data for research as there tends to be a lot of it.

But for the first time, it appears you and I agree on something... that a certain number of people are resisting infection! You say 15% the HSE say 80%, whatever the number is it’s a start yeah

Of course its a good idea. Practically all advances in medical care have been due to one crisis or another.
The problem is that there is no commonality, no way of predicting who is or who is not liable to become infected, what that means for the spread of the virus or even it would have any effect on future immunity.
It is useful research I agree. I would question what relevance it has in the short to medium term of dealing with this virus though.

CruelSummer · 19-10-2020 04:23PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172397-coronavirus-ireland/

I give up - we just have a bunch of hysterical media, journalists & some members of the public in this country. Facts don’t seem to matter.

normanoffside · 19-10-2020 04:24PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Erm...it is a last resort though.

Less than 3% of our public hospital beds are occupied by patients with Covid though. How is this an emergency?

siblers · 19-10-2020 04:25PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Less than 3% of our public hospital beds are occupied by patients with Covid though. How is this an emergency?

Is it not being based off ICU availability? Current rates would see ICU go to 100% occupancy, trying to flatten the curve again will give them breathing space

charlie14 · 19-10-2020 04:26PM

average_runner wrote: »

So why is covid weaker this time around?

Why do you believe Covid-19 is weaker now ?
I may have missed it but I have not seen any scientific evidence that says it is.

Rrrrrr2 · 19-10-2020 04:27PM

santana75 wrote: »

The lockdown approach does not seem to be working. At some stage the powers that be will have to admit this and try another approach.

Ya think?!

Captain_Crash · 19-10-2020 04:31PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Of course its a good idea. Practically all advances in medical care have been due to one crisis or another.
The problem is that there is no commonality, no way of predicting who is or who is not liable to become infected, what that means for the spread of the virus or even it would have any effect on future immunity.
It is useful research I agree. I would question what relevance it has in the short to medium term of dealing with this virus though.

Research will find that commonality, leave them at it, it takes time but we’ll get there!

We’ve also established and are in agreement that the asymtomatic cases have resisted infection. We don’t know how yet but they’ve resisted it!

And the medical definition of immune is the resistance of infection! So we can agree there is noticeable immunity in the community.

Real Donald Trump · 19-10-2020 04:31PM

siblers wrote: »

Is it not being based off ICU availability? Current rates would see ICU go to 100% occupancy, trying to flatten the curve again will give them breathing space

Then what happens? The rates go down, we open up again and shut down a few months later? No end in sight to all this bull****!

darconio · 19-10-2020 04:33PM

So according to the latest data we have defeated standard disease like cold and influenza. According to the expert this is because of social distancing, mask wearing and hand sanitizing: so how come covid-19 is spreading?
The above remedies are either effective or they aren't, something (else) doesn't really add up.
If they really implement 6 weeks of level 5 lockdown, it will cause an irreparable damage to the economy, the mental and physical health of the most and will destroy our society.

LuckyLloyd · 19-10-2020 04:37PM

darconio wrote: »

So according to the latest data we have defeated standard disease like cold and influenza. According to the expert this is because of social distancing, mask wearing and hand sanitizing: so how come covid-19 is spreading?
The above remedies are either effective or they aren't, something (else) doesn't really add up.
If they really implement 6 weeks of level 5 lockdown, it will cause an irreparable damage to the economy, the mental and physical health of the most and will destroy our society.

It will not cause “irreparable” damage to the economy. We are closing sectors of the economy that are low barrier to entry / startup. Even if businesses in these sectors go to the wall they or versions of them will return in short order when the public health situation eventually improves.

On a broader level, true economic confidence and productivity depends on resolution of the health situation - a fact all too easily glossed over in this thread.

Your hyperbole will garner thanks here but it is incorrect and poorly founded. Failing to tackle this public health crisis would be the thing that destroys our society.

facehugger99 · 19-10-2020 04:38PM

0.0062% of the population in hospital with Covid.

0.0007% in ICU.

Let those numbers sink in.

To fcuk the economy off a cliff, put hundreds of thousands onto the PUP payment and condemn hundreds of viable businesses over the above numbers is beyond staggering.

It is like a bad dream watching the country be systematically destroyed by hysteria and cowardice on a scale I am ashamed to see.

Watch as millions of euros of Irish money moves into the pockets of the big UK online retailers on the run-up to Christmas.

Where is the evidence to back up this approach? Why aren't all the shop workers and checkout operators dropping like flies if this is justified?

topper75 · 19-10-2020 04:39PM

My kingdom for a simple banking crisis or credit crunch.
We are about to find out the price of hysteria.

dundalkfc10 · 19-10-2020 04:40PM

It's Level 5 but not Level 5.

Meat Plants can stay open.
Schools stay open.
Ports still open.
Horse Racing allowed to carry on behind closed doors
Manufacturing and Construction still allowed.

Guess Level 5 is really Level 5+Big Business...

Now you know who FF/FG listened to

Rrrrrr2 · 19-10-2020 04:41PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It will not cause “irreparable” damage to the economy. We are closing sectors of the economy that are low barrier to entry / startup. Even if businesses in these sectors go to the wall they or versions of them will return in short order when the public health situation eventually improves.

On a broader level, true economic confidence and productivity depends on resolution of the health situation - a fact all too easily glossed over in this thread.

Your hyperbole will garner thanks here but it is incorrect and poorly founded. Failing to tackle this public health crisis would be the thing that destroys our society.

And your callousness and flippancy astounds me-“ ah sure look everyone it’s only your livelihood- you can jump straight back in when we decide- or someone else will, we really don’t care either way”.

For objectivity purposes what is your own career and income based on?

topper75 · 19-10-2020 04:41PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

On a broader level, true economic confidence and productivity depends on resolution of the health situation - a fact all too easily glossed over in this thread.

Lockdowns don't resolve ANY health situation. They worsen them.

Where were you last spring when we as a nation learned all this?

Rrrrrr2 · 19-10-2020 04:42PM

topper75 wrote: »

My kingdom for a simple banking crisis or credit crunch.
We are about to find out the price of hysteria.

Yes you can get out of those with a bit of logic and hard work. In this farcical mania neither of those are allowed

greenfield21 · 19-10-2020 04:43PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

It's Level 5 but not Level 5.

Meat Plants can stay open.
Schools stay open.
Ports still open.
Horse Racing allowed to carry on behind closed doors
Manufacturing and Construction still allowed.

Guess Level 5 is really Level 5+Big Business...

Now you know who FF/FG listened to

It's the corporate tax receipts and employees from MNCs that is keeping the country afloat. New pubs restaurants can be reopened when this is over. Nothing comes before MNCs

FintanMcluskey · 19-10-2020 04:44PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It will not cause “irreparable” damage to the economy. We are closing sectors of the economy that are low barrier to entry / startup. Even if businesses in these sectors go to the wall they or versions of them will return in short order when the public health situation eventually improves.

On a broader level, true economic confidence and productivity depends on resolution of the health situation - a fact all too easily glossed over in this thread.

Your hyperbole will garner thanks here but it is incorrect and poorly founded. Failing to tackle this public health crisis would be the thing that destroys our society.

The Irish domestic economy is one of the hardest hit in the EU.

The job losses in Ireland are one of the highest in the EU.

The Irish lockdown was the longest in the EU.

Now we are tightening the noose on citizens yet again, for at least 6 weeks,not long after Berlin refused to close it bars at 11pm as it decided it wasn’t fair on citizens.

All of this while remembering Ireland has Europe’s youngest population, a natural defence no amount of ICU beds can buy for a disease that primarily effects the elderly.

MOH · 19-10-2020 04:45PM

siblers wrote: »

Is it not being based off ICU availability? Current rates would see ICU go to 100% occupancy, trying to flatten the curve again will give them breathing space

Exactly. And then we can use the time that buys us to implement a fast, efficient testing and contact tracing system that enables us to avoid future countrywide lockdowns by reacting quickly to clusters and swiftly isolating close contacts....

Please excuse me, I'm having a terrible feeing of deja vu

darconio · 19-10-2020 04:48PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It will not cause “irreparable” damage to the economy. We are closing sectors of the economy that are low barrier to entry / startup. Even if businesses in these sectors go to the wall they or versions of them will return in short order when the public health situation eventually improves.

On a broader level, true economic confidence and productivity depends on resolution of the health situation - a fact all too easily glossed over in this thread.

Your hyperbole will garner thanks here but it is incorrect and poorly founded. Failing to tackle this public health crisis would be the thing that destroys our society.

You can tell that to all the unemployed that are struggling to survive on the PUP. You see this as an health crisis, I see this as a virus that we have learned to handle with our immune system: different prospective indeed.

Zardoz · 19-10-2020 04:50PM

7 months they had to add extra ICU beds and avoid this inevitable scenario.
Sweden, a country with a similar ratio of ICU beds/100k could double their number of ICU beds in 3 weeks back in March .
Our gob****es have added 30 beds in 7 months.
We must be the laughing stock of Europe.

Kermit.de.frog · 19-10-2020 04:50PM

Correct decision.

Hopefully we are in a position to return to where we are now before Christmas but I suspect not. 2 weeks wasted.

facehugger99 · 19-10-2020 04:51PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It will not cause “irreparable” damage to the economy. We are closing sectors of the economy that are low barrier to entry / startup. Even if businesses in these sectors go to the wall they or versions of them will return in short order when the public health situation eventually improves.
.

I'm all right Jack!

Fcuk all the businesses and employees that go to the wall - sure they can just start up new businesses and get new jobs - now pass me the remote til I see what's on Netflix.

Juicyfruit · 19-10-2020 04:52PM

Sorry if been asked already, but do we know when can we expect the announcement?

charlie14 · 19-10-2020 04:52PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Research will find that commonality, leave them at it, it takes time but we’ll get there!

We’ve also established and are in agreement that the asymtomatic cases have resisted infection. We don’t know how yet but they’ve resisted it!

And the medical definition of immune is the resistance of infection! So we can agree there is noticeable immunity in the community.

But if you are infected you are not immune. Resistance and immunity are two totally different scenarios. We do not know if those that have shown resistance can pass on the virus or even if having been infected has provided them with immunity or if it has how long that immunity will last.
There are a growing number of cases worldwide where people have been re-infected. One as far as I recall in China I think twice.
Some have had mild re-infections while others severe where there is no correlation to the degree experienced first time around.
So far those numbers have been low, but they do signal just how difficult it is to quantify how difficult it is to know what has lead to some having resistance or how to predict who or why.
Agreed it will very possibly be possible and of benefit in the future, but in the present or medium term it is not going to be much help iin combating this virus.

billybonkers · 19-10-2020 04:52PM

Juicyfruit wrote: »

Sorry if been asked already, but do we know when can we expect the announcement?

9pm news most likely

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings