Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Whatsisname

average_runner wrote: »

Nope, immunity to a strain that they hope comes around that particular year and even at that, you can still get it.


Why do so many old people still die from it when they have the jab?

Yeah, you still get it because it doesn't offer 100% immunity, but its less severe because you have partial immunity. Why old people die from it is because that amount of immunity isn't enough I guess.

So if no immunity from covid exists, why would they bother trying to make a vaccine?

polesheep

CruelSummer wrote: »

The optics here are terrible. Closing down the country&many businesses unnecessarily - many of whom may never reopen, and Simon is getting awarded for his early pandemic work...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/simon-harris-to-receive-award-for-his-admirable-work-as-minister-for-health-39640823.html

I don’t have anything against Simon Harris, but it’s far too early to start awarding people when we’re still in the middle of a serious crisis.

That any Minister for Health in the history of this country should receive an award for their work is mind boggling.

Rrrrrr2

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Elites backslapping other elites- shocker!

this 1000%

and the last rushed vaccine recipient award goes to???

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/familys-anger-at-hostile-state-in-narcolepsy-defence-38720636.html

good oul simon the wax ventriloquist dummy himself!

Mr "COP ON" merchant!

polesheep

Whatsisname wrote: »

Yeah, you still get it because it doesn't offer 100% immunity, but its less severe because you have partial immunity. Why old people die from it is because that amount of immunity isn't enough I guess.

So if no immunity from covid exists, why would they bother trying to make a vaccine?

I'm sorry, but this is pure nonsense.

charlie14

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I suppose that's understandable yeah, and would it be correct to say that the 80% who test positive but show no symptoms are to some degree resisting infection?

Who knows. It could be down to the viral load the initially received upon being infected, but if the can reinfect others then it does not make much difference does it.
Just in case you are going with this 80% being asymptomatic, Based on a few of the studies I have read on this, one from the Institute of Evidence-Based Healthcare at Bond University and a separate study by Swiss researchers both put the figure at 15%.
Far as I know this 80% came from Maria Van Kerkhove a WHO technical consultant who later rolled back on that figure

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

Erm...it is a last resort though.

Is this a last resort tho? Really? Can you honestly say there is no other route we can take before going nuclear? What other approaches have we tried before deciding on this... none, so how can we know!

Captain_Crash

charlie14 wrote: »

Who knows. It could be down to the viral load the initially received upon being infected, but if the can reinfect others then it does not make much difference does it.
Just in case you are going with this 80% being asymptomatic, Based on a few of the studies I have read on this, one from the Institute of Evidence-Based Healthcare at Bond University and a separate study by Swiss researchers both put the figure at 15%.
Far as I know this 80% came from Maria Van Kerkhove a WHO technical consultant who later rolled back on that figure

But it’s correct to say they are resisting infection somehow

Whatsisname

polesheep wrote: »

I'm sorry, but this is pure nonsense.

Please enlighten me how.

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

Who knows. It could be down to the viral load the initially received upon being infected, but if the can reinfect others then it does not make much difference does it.
Just in case you are going with this 80% being asymptomatic, Based on a few of the studies I have read on this, one from the Institute of Evidence-Based Healthcare at Bond University and a separate study by Swiss researchers both put the figure at 15%.
Far as I know this 80% came from Maria Van Kerkhove a WHO technical consultant who later rolled back on that figure

HSE says 80% of those infected are asymptomatic or present with mild symptoms. Not sure what the breakdown between asymptomatic and mild is.

It’s immaterial anyway -80% seem very resistant to disease.

And if you subscribe to the viral load theory, then surely an initial infection from a low viral load would point to a passing on of a low viral load infection? So that would make a difference.

charlie14

average_runner wrote: »

Nope, immunity to a strain that they hope comes around that particular year and even at that, you can still get it.


Why do so many old people still die from it when they have the jab?

The flu virus constantly mutates. Each years vaccine is a best guess from the how the virus has behaved in usually the previous two years.
For that reason it is not guaranteed to provide total immunity but it will generally give a good level of protection.
So far Covid-19 has not shown any sign of behaving like the flu virus and mutating.

facehugger99

CruelSummer wrote: »

The optics here are terrible. Closing down the country&many businesses unnecessarily - many of whom may never reopen, and Simon is getting awarded for his early pandemic work...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/simon-harris-to-receive-award-for-his-admirable-work-as-minister-for-health-39640823.html

I don’t have anything against Simon Harris, but it’s far too early to start awarding people when we’re still in the middle of a serious crisis.

Good god, that is nauseating stuff.

Penfailed

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Is this a last resort tho? Really? Can you honestly say there is no other route we can take before going nuclear? What other approaches have we tried before deciding on this... none, so how can we know!

What other route though? They tried various restrictions to no avail.

Rrrrrr2

facehugger99 wrote: »

Good god, that is nauseating stuff.

He has a fanatical following. I vote FG and really can’t stand him- awful self serving person and virtue signaller with absolutely nothing behind him.
He embodies Covid 19 response- the mania, the utter stupidity, the pointlessness, the lack of self awareness when it comes to individual health and most importantly the playing to the social media gallery and echo chamber of panicked loons

Rrrrrr2

Stormyteacup wrote: »

HSE says 80% of those infected are asymptomatic or present with mild symptoms. Not sure what the breakdown between asymptomatic and mild is.

It’s immaterial anyway -80% seem very resistant to disease.

And if you subscribe to the viral load theory, then surely an initial infection from a low viral load would point to a passing on of a low viral load infection? So that would make a difference.

As with most things- a good robust immune system is vital. Personal responsibility is a dirty word it seems so looking after your own health (ie diet, exercise, not smoking/drinking etc) had become an alien concept to a great many. The link between Covid and obesity is well established but is brushed under the carpet as it’s not PC to state that fat people are a lot more vulnerable

topper75

charlie14 wrote: »

So far Covid-19 has not shown any sign of behaving like the flu virus and mutating.

Not true. In it's short existance (presumed!) SARS-CoV-2 has produced 6 identified strains: L, S, V, G, GR, GH.

Granted they don't vary a whole lot, yet. But it is mutating.

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

HSE says 80% of those infected are asymptomatic or present with mild symptoms. Not sure what the breakdown between asymptomatic and mild is.

It’s immaterial anyway -80% seem very resistant to disease.

And if you subscribe to the viral load theory, then surely an initial infection from a low viral load would point to a passing on of a low viral load infection? So that would make a difference.

Not necessarily. The fact that you become infected by a low viral load is no guarantee that load will not have multiplied by the time you infect someone else.
Having mild symptoms does not mean you will not transmit so even if this was the case for 80% there is no definitive way of knowing who makes up this 80%.
That 80% is very questionable imo anyway as we most likely have 25% of our population in the highly vulnerable categories alone.

charlie14

topper75 wrote: »

Not true. In it's short existance (presumed!) SARS-CoV-2 has produced 6 identified strains: L, S, V, G, GR, GH.

Granted they don't vary a whole lot, yet. But it is mutating.

Far as I know that has been taken into account by all those presently researching vaccines and it is not being looked at as a factor.
It may indeed mutate in the future, but then again other than similar to flu our best hope of fighting that will again be similar to how we use vaccines to combat the flu virus.

topper75

charlie14 wrote: »

Far as I know that has been taken into account by all those presently researching vaccines and it is not being looked at as a factor.
It may indeed mutate in the future, but then again other than similar to flu our best hope of fighting that will again be similar to how we use vaccines to combat the flu virus.

So this 'vaccine' can only ever have relevance for mutations to date?

That is a very different prospect to what you were talking about above where 'Covid-19' (a disease not a virus) has not shown any signs of mutating like the flu.

topper75

To anybody hanging hopes on a vaccine being found as an exit strategy, you had better hope that the vaccine does not try to target the spikes of the virus' corona that bind with human cells. If you do, read this and weep:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

FintanMcluskey

CruelSummer wrote: »

The optics here are terrible. Closing down the country&many businesses unnecessarily - many of whom may never reopen, and Simon is getting awarded for his early pandemic work...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/simon-harris-to-receive-award-for-his-admirable-work-as-minister-for-health-39640823.html

I don’t have anything against Simon Harris, but it’s far too early to start awarding people when we’re still in the middle of a serious crisis.

Oh my ****ing God. Christ on a bicycle.

Never in mankind has such ineptitude being celebrated in such a manner.

Although perhaps this man deserves to be rewarded for his outstanding work and knowledge while dealing with the 18 previous Covid viruses.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/news/simon-harris-claims-18-other-coronaviruses-major-radio-error-696767

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Oh my ****ing God. Christ on a bicycle.

Never in mankind has such ineptitude being celebrated in such a manner.

Although perhaps this man deserves to be rewarded for his outstanding work and knowledge while dealing with the 18 previous Covid viruses.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/news/simon-harris-claims-18-other-coronaviruses-major-radio-error-696767

ah give him a break Fintan, the dog ate his homework that morning...

charlie14

Captain_Crash wrote: »

But it’s correct to say they are resisting infection somehow

When you are in the middle of a pandemic I really do not see what help it is going to be if you cannot quantify exactly who is resisting infection.
If you do not know exactly who they may be, why they me be, or if the can still infect others and to what degree then I cannot see it being of much use in attempting to combat the spread.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

I told you Fintan I`m sick and tired of posting factual verifiable data that others know quite well to be true but just use the first rubbish that comes into their head attempting to make it appear otherwise.
How many times alone over different threads have I had to deal with your posts attempting to portray the deaths in Sweden as just being due to the number of their population being aged over 65 as if it was a universal truth ?
Time after time after time I have shown you that when the same theory is applied to Sweden`s Nordic neighbours, if ALL deaths in some of those countries were over 65`s your theory is out by a factor of 10.
Yet time after time after time you keep re-posting the same.
I have told you if you are genuinely interested where all the information is. You have even been on the relevant thread. I am not going to keep banging my head of a brick wall, especially for people that regardless of their argument being clearly shown to be rubbish will just keep posting the same rubbish.

Charlie this is the second wall of nonsense you took the time out of your day to type when I simply asked for a link to a printed article to back up what you said.

Both times you could have just said “No i don’t have one,”

charlie14

topper75 wrote: »

So this 'vaccine' can only ever have relevance for mutations to date?

That is a very different prospect to what you were talking about above where 'Covid-19' (a disease not a virus) has not shown any signs of mutating like the flu.

Seriously what point are you trying to make.
That a vaccine is of no use unless it can predict how a virus may or may not mutate in the future ?


Btw, did you happen to notice along the way that Covid-19 is classified as a coronaVIRUS not a coronaDISEASE

Rrrrrr2

rusty cole wrote: »

ah give him a break Fintan, the dog ate his homework that morning...

He’s very calculated and conniving- Harris studies what way the social baying mobs are blowing with their pitchforks (ie masks) and takes his positions accordingly. He has no grasp of the economy or any long term vision or concern for the Irish economy. He’s a total short termist

Penfailed

charlie14 wrote: »

Seriously what point are you trying to make.
That a vaccine is of no use unless it can predict how a virus may or may not mutate in the future ?


Btw, did you happen to notice along the way that Covid-19 is classified as a coronaVIRUS not a coronaDISEASE

Strictly speaking, it's both. Co(Corona)Vi(Virus)D(Disease)19(2019)

topper75

Covid-19 is a disease (it does not mutate, that is not what diseases do).

SARS-CoV-2 is a virus (sadly it does mutate).

average_runner

charlie14 wrote: »

The flu virus constantly mutates. Each years vaccine is a best guess from the how the virus has behaved in usually the previous two years.
For that reason it is not guaranteed to provide total immunity but it will generally give a good level of protection.
So far Covid-19 has not shown any sign of behaving like the flu virus and mutating.

So why is covid weaker this time around?

_Kaiser_

IT/Newstalk now saying that it's looking like a full level 5 for 6 weeks.

The Government is understood to be preparing to move to Level 5 restrictions for six weeks, The Irish Times understands.

Ministers will be asked at a Cabinet meeting currently underway in Government Buildings to approve a return to the tightest restrictions under the Government’s living with Covid plan.

It is understood that intense negotiations between ministers and health officials resulted in a decision to seek cabinet approval for Level 5 rather than an enhanced Level 4, which was under discussion yesterday.

The Government is due to announce travel restrictions as part of increased measures to combat the spread of coronavirus in Ireland, with one option being the implementation of a 10km limit for households.

The Cabinet met in Government Buildings ahead of a full Cabinet meeting at 4pm. A formal announcement of new restrictions is expected to be made around 9pm on Monday evening.

This is absolutely farcical at this stage.

Captain_Crash

charlie14 wrote: »

When you are in the middle of a pandemic I really do not see what help it is going to be if you cannot quantify exactly who is resisting infection.
If you do not know exactly who they may be, why they me be, or if the can still infect others and to what degree then I cannot see it being of much use in attempting to combat the spread.

And it helps to collect as much data as we can. If we know x amount are asymptomatic then we can research why these people are not showing symptoms, if there is a common trend then we have a road to go down! This is how medical research works, infact during a pandemic is the best time to collect data for research as there tends to be a lot of it.

But for the first time, it appears you and I agree on something... that a certain number of people are resisting infection! You say 15% the HSE say 80%, whatever the number is it’s a start yeah