Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

13-10-2020 05:35PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have a very simple question for you. Yes or no answer, nice and straightforward.

New Zealand closed their borders and tried for zero covid, are they currently covid free?

They are as good as covid free, a few cases here and there once handled correctly* are not really an major issue.

*lockdown any and all potential contacts etc to ensure no spread.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 05:36PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

The first positive case after they had declared themselves covid free was before the border opened again!

Try harder next time... your pipe might taste better but it’ll still make ya cough

Trollocks.

They failed at the best idea because they didn't do it properly.

It's still the best idea by a country mile.

Look at their numbers now anyway, then look at ours. And that's after them failing.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 05:36PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Terrible idea, we need to test anyone who has any form of symptom and anyone deemed a close contact otherwise we lose track of where the virus is and you can have people with no symptoms going around infecting people without knowing it.

I would go so far as to say we need to start testing more and more, at random anyone in a work setting etc.

Censor the media from reporting perfectly acceptable solutions such as zero covid, most definitely not.

Crazy suggestion, the people deserve to know the day to day situation with the virus I cannot fathom how anyone sees withholding vital information from the people as a viable strategy.

Welcome back

Nox will you ever consider living with covid? Or its Zero covid or nothing?

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 05:37PM

Gradius wrote: »

Trollocks.

They failed at the best idea because they didn't do it properly.

It's still the best idea by a country mile.

Look at their numbers now anyway, then look at ours. And that's after them failing.

Yes, their GDP also shrank by 12%.

Worst recession since 1987.

There is a little thing called - economy. Bill Clinton quote comes to mind but I cant repeat it here as it may look like I am being rude.

Captain_Crash · 13-10-2020 05:38PM

Gradius wrote: »

They failed at the best idea because they didn't do it properly.

Or maybe they failed at the best idea because..... it’s not the best idea!

13-10-2020 05:40PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yes, their GDP also shrank by 12%.

Sweden's fell by 9% so not that much different considering how many they have killed in the name of "normality".

Gradius · 13-10-2020 05:41PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yes, their GDP also shrank by 12%.

Worst recession since 1987.

There is a little thing called - economy. Bill Clinton quote comes to mind but I cant repeat it here as it may look like I am being rude.

Yes, a reduced economy is infinitely preferable to the place we're headed, that is, an utterly ruined economy.

It's a matter of choosing, and the choice is clear.

charlie14 · 13-10-2020 05:41PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

He's not wrong. The hysteria on Twitter, Facebook and indeed boards.ie over this issue has been steadily ramped up over the preceding months, and true to form anyone not on-message with the accepted narrative is called out, attacked., dismissed or belittled.. just as you've done there!

Alternate view and approaches are something badly lacking in our CV-19 response. We may not agree with them all, but they should certainly be discussed and their merits (or lack thereof) considered rationally and fairly.

The problem is that on this thread any alternative view are not discussed on their merits. They are just attacked by posters whose only other contribution is to bitch and moan without putting a suggestion forward themselves.
Somebody on here posted that "open up the country" was a classic.
Classics are supposed to age well.

A line like that without a proposal as to how it will be achieved is not a classic. It`s inane.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 05:42PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Or maybe they failed at the best idea because..... it’s not the best idea!

Or they failed at implementing the best idea.

Regardless, any plan is better than what we have; no plan.

And even then, their current situation, even with failure, is magnitudes better than our current situation.

Libski · 13-10-2020 05:44PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's quite simple you asked me a question about restrictions without first giving your own thoughts. Do you think they are sufficient, too few or too many?
I know I put you in a bind as a coherent response will require more than 8 or 9 words.

What are you asking me? Was lockdown effective? Yes. Are the current level 3 restrictions effective? They don't appear to be. 1012 new cases on Saturday. How is that level effective?

Ice Albatross · 13-10-2020 05:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's more holes in that than Swiss cheese. Removes asymptomatic carriers from the equation (yes, they can still infect the vulnerable and elderly believe it or not) and a slow drip-feed of information is rather hopeless to sufficiently prepare the public during a rapidly evolving crisis. Finally, my spidey senses detect a wind-up.

They would be accounted for in the equation by testing of people who work of healthcare/nursing home workers who have contact with the vulrenable and elderly. If you have no contact with these people or that contact is voluntary on behalf of the elderly person, what's the point in testing besides trying to avoid a casedemic. Casedemics are not the problem

Information would still be released daily, but a clear message would be sent that policy will not be based on junk stats

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 05:45PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Sweden's fell by 9% so not that much different considering how many they have killed in the name of "normality".

Jaysus Nox. 1 thing I gotta give you - you are consistently posting bizarre stuff.

Plumbthedepths · 13-10-2020 05:51PM

Libski wrote: »

What are you asking me? Was lockdown effective? Yes. Are the current level 3 restrictions effective? They don't appear to be. 1012 new cases on Saturday. How is that level effective?

Lockdown was effective but it's not a long-term strategy to live with the virus as it's going nowhere.
Unfortunately the magic money tree only has so many leaves on it. Someday it will be bare.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 05:54PM

I am gonna go for 600 - 900 new cases today.

0 deaths.

I think cases gotta start coming down now otherwise Level 3 doesnt have obvious benefits, and change back to level 2 is in order (since we cant afford to do level 4 +)

Ice Albatross · 13-10-2020 05:55PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Terrible idea, we need to test anyone who has any form of symptom and anyone deemed a close contact otherwise we lose track of where the virus is and you can have people with no symptoms going around infecting people without knowing it.

I would go so far as to say we need to start testing more and more, at random anyone in a work setting etc.

Censor the media from reporting perfectly acceptable solutions such as zero covid, most definitely not.

Crazy suggestion, the people deserve to know the day to day situation with the virus I cannot fathom how anyone sees withholding vital information from the people as a viable strategy.

We are living with social distancing because of that already which accounts for that fact. Testing of close contacts and advising asymptomatic people to isolate hasn't been shown to be effective in any European country that's I've seen in suppressing the virus, let me know where it has worked in Europe if you know of somewhere

Information can still be released, but it should come with a disclaimer that it is not accurate (will not account for cases that my only be reported weeks after and some may be from weeks before)

Gradius · 13-10-2020 05:57PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am gonna go for 600 - 900 new cases today.

0 deaths.

I think cases gotta start coming down now otherwise Level 3 doesnt have obvious benefits, and change back to level 2 is in order (since we cant afford to do level 4 +)

Look at these statistics, and remember that's after them failing,

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 06:01PM

Gradius wrote: »

Look at these statistics, and remember that's after them failing,

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases

With all the respect now that country is 1000 + miles away from nearest neighbour.

They are isolated as a default starting position.

If there were 500 people living on the moon and they reported 0 new cases - would you point at them and say "that is the strategy we need to pursue" ?

Gradius · 13-10-2020 06:05PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

With all the respect now that country is 1000 + miles away from nearest neighbour.

They are isolated as a default starting position.

If there were 500 people living on the moon and they reported 0 new cases - would you point at them and say "that is the strategy we need to pursue" ?

The greatest natural defence we have is that we are an island, just like them.

It doesn't matter a fig about proximity to other countries if they close borders. It's not like a 1000 mile plane journey is somehow different to a 150 mile one.

End of the day it's still a metal tube full of diseased plonkers coughing and sneezing and shoiting all over the place. Doesn't matter if they got a free meal onboard or not.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 06:08PM

Gradius wrote: »

The greatest natural defence we have is that we are an island, just like them.

It doesn't matter a fig about proximity to other countries if they close borders. It's not like a 1000 mile plane journey is somehow different to a 150 mile one.

End of the day it's still a metal tube full of diseased plonkers coughing and sneezing and shoiting all over the place. Doesn't matter if they got a free meal onboard or not.

I think we just fundamentally disagree.

Your idea of success is complete isolation of Ireland from others, for months on end, that will enable me and you walk around Dublin city centre without masks or social distancing while extremely poor and hungry looking for food.

Its not an idea that our government will ever be exploring. Thankfully.

charlie14 · 13-10-2020 06:14PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Jaysus Nox. 1 thing I gotta give you - you are consistently posting bizarre stuff.

Are you saying he is incorrect or just your usual attempts of deflecting uncomfortable truths.
You are a great champion of the Swedish strategy which has, as the poster said, resulted in more deaths than Ireland with no economic gains. Worse than Ireland on both counts in fact.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 06:15PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think we just fundamentally disagree.

Your idea of success is complete isolation of Ireland from others, for months on end, that will enable me and you walk around Dublin city centre without masks or social distancing while extremely poor and hungry looking for food.

Its not an idea that our government will ever be exploring. Thankfully.

Trust in the Lord, we WILL be living in an impoverished shythole of misery if we stay this course. Guaranteed, money-back, iron-clad.

New Zealand won't be. And again, that's after them merely attempting the plan.

Also, I haven't heard of kiwis walking around desperately scavenging for food. And that's with all them orcs and elves and shyt

Choice is easy. It doesn't get any clearer about who is fooking up and who isn't.

CalamariFritti · 13-10-2020 06:41PM

Gradius wrote: »

Trust in the Lord, we WILL be living in an impoverished shythole of misery if we stay this course. Guaranteed, money-back, iron-clad.

New Zealand won't be. And again, that's after them merely attempting the plan.

Also, I haven't heard of kiwis walking around desperately scavenging for food. And that's with all them orcs and elves and shyt

Choice is easy. It doesn't get any clearer about who is fooking up and who isn't.

Could also be that when the whole world is infected and through with it New Zealand will be sitting there on its (still not quite) covid free island thinking 'fvck'.

Ice Albatross · 13-10-2020 06:48PM

Libski wrote: »

lol true.

Bad thing? Obviously - if a person gets their "news" from Twitter, that's not news. That's the problem.

Agreed. I've a feeling the government is taking the expected reaction on Twitter and other social media into account in their decision making which is even worse. Tbh I don't think any TD or civil servant should post on Twitter as part of their job description but maybe it's unavoidable in this day and age

CalamariFritti · 13-10-2020 06:54PM

I dont think twitter plays as a big role as people think it does. Its a bubbling sea of herd opinion alright and some of it may spill over into the actual news outlets like RTE. Which is still the place where the large audience is being reached.

But thinking about it - RTE have been as bad as any twitter hysteria could be.

Are the approved media outlets effectively dictating the course that we're taking with covid?

facehugger99 · 13-10-2020 06:58PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I dont think twitter plays as a big role as people think it does. Its a bubbling sea of herd opinion alright and some of it may spill over into the actual news outlets like RTE. Which is still the place where the large audience is being reached.

But thinking about it - RTE have been as bad as any twitter hysteria could be.

Are the approved media outlets effectively dictating the course that we're taking with covid?

One would almost think they were financially incentivised to hype up the hysteria.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 07:01PM

HEALTH OFFICIALS HAVE this evening confirmed 811 more cases of Covid-19 in Ireland.

There have also been three further deaths associated with the disease.

https://www.thejournal.ie/new-covid-daily-figures-5232017-Oct2020/

Just me or media outlets use different phrases now rather than died from covid as they initially, incorrectly, have been spewing?

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 07:02PM

Gradius wrote: »

Not the same thing.

They started out correctly. Successfully eliminated the virus. Back to relative normality.

The difference is that they opened the borders again. They were infected again. Shocker!

The example of New Zealand proves the point of my idea as successful.

The subsequent failure of New Zealand ALSO proves the point of my idea as successful.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it all day long.

The answer you were looking for was "no".

As in, "No, despite being an island 2000km from its nearest neighbour who closed its borders in an attempt to eliminate covid 19, New Zealand are not currently covid free".

That is all you had to say.

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

They are as good as covid free, a few cases here and there once handled correctly* are not really an major issue.

We had already established that you don't know what zero covid actually means, there is no need to repeat yourself.

Ice Albatross · 13-10-2020 07:06PM

Gradius wrote: »

Absolutely.

Given a choice of living normally in the country, versus the current circus of shoite forever, I know what I'd prefer.

If a vaccine comes around eventually, great. If it doesn't, then I'd rather not be living in this zombie apocalypse anyway!

I could get behind this this if we wanted and were willing to take the measures to make it successful. Time to have done it would have been March/April.

Way the Asians do it is to test millions and to make people quarantine for two weeks on arrival at ports of entry (actually escort them under guard to the hotel)

I don't think we can or should close the border with Northern Ireland. The idea of getting to zero Covid in the ROI is all well and good, but we have a two state system in the north of the country. Fair enough if you think we should be able to tell Irish citizens up North that they have to quarantine for two weeks when passing a km from their home across the border, but I don't think that is enforceable or desirable to do.This is the sticking point which I think destroys any plans for zero Covid (however well intentioned).

I at least respect it as at least its an actual plan, but think it's avoiding the reality of the border/political situation of the country we live. I guarantee you in New Zealand were facing the same they wouldn't have chosen their strategy and if they had it wouldn't have been even remotely successful.

Remember the start of the virus when we closed schools and NI didn't? Multiply that by 1000

Edit: spelling

Gradius · 13-10-2020 07:06PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

The answer you were looking for was "no".

As in, "No, despite being an island 2000km from its nearest neighbour who closed its borders in an attempt to eliminate covid 19, New Zealand are not currently covid free".

That is all you had to say.

We had already established that you don't know what zero covid actually means, there is no need to repeat yourself.

No, the answer YOU were looking for was "no". A supremely childish way to avoid any reasoning.

You didn't get it.

You got schooled.

You got bollocked.

Hate that

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 07:07PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Are the approved media outlets effectively dictating the course that we're taking with covid?

I would say that the media behavior this past 5 months has been very alarming, there has been a very clear narrative there for quite a while now and that should worry people.

A free media bringing truth to power is important in a democracy, I don't mean sow dissent for the sake of it but surely there are some reporters out there prepared to ask a few hard questions.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings