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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    They should certainly have someone with relevant experience running it.

    Do you work in a school?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    They should certainly have someone with relevant experience running it.

    In your humble opinion, what relevant experience should that person have?


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Nocrac


    I'm worried about it. At least 10's of thousands are worried about it going by the number of members on the FB group. All the teachers/principals unions are worried about it. NPHET/top doctors & scientists of the country are worried about it. Tony Holohan is worried about it. Probably most of the country. But Raind on boards isn't worried. Cool story. :cool:

    What's the nsmeof the Facebook group please?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    An excellent presentation on how the virus is transmitted and how to protect ourselves, esp for schools.


    SLIDE SHOW

    It doesn't mention GIT upset which in the Belfast study when sued increased the amount of children diagnosed with covid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    In your humble opinion, what relevant experience should that person have?

    Someone with experience in HR, supply chain and educational facility management


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Nocrac wrote: »
    What's the nsmeof the Facebook group please?

    Alerting parents of outbreaks in schools "Ireland" on FB


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Cut down on interactions- close staff room, meetings done remotely
    use *quiet voices- microphones
    go outside- self explanatory, it's not raining all the time
    given correct ppe gear- wasn't there funding allocated? is it already gone?
    clean surfaces properly- why would this be difficult?

    1. This could be worked, but my understanding is the staff rooms are mostly reduced capacity, or split to other rooms to achieve this. To close it would see a number of staff with nowhere to have lunch....not everyone owns a car.
    2. They aren't provided with some of the basic teaching equipment. The department won't pay for microphones for teaching staff and definitely not for students.
    3. Depending on where you are in the country, it's raining half the time. It's not a workable solution for many hundreds of students per school.
    4. PPE was not allocated. My understanding is that a small cleaning budget was allocated, but I don't know the details. I know teachers were not provided with PPE like the Gardaí, medical staff and every other industry/sector I can think of.
    5. You would have to rely on every student to do this properly. Some will do a good job, others won't even try. They put their grubby hands onto more than just the table surface. Never look at the underside of a desk in a classroom :D

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    5. You would have to rely on every student to do this properly. Some will do a good job, others won't even try. They put their grubby hands onto more than just the table surface. Never look at the underside of a desk in a classroom :D

    Sure even with the camera on them last night during that show and it being the first week back some of those students didn't really clean those desks properly. A zig zag Z doesn't clean a desk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    1. This could be worked, but my understanding is the staff rooms are mostly reduced capacity, or split to other rooms to achieve this. To close it would see a number of staff with nowhere to have lunch....not everyone owns a car.
    2. They aren't provided with some of the basic teaching equipment. The department won't pay for microphones for teaching staff and definitely not for students.
    3. Depending on where you are in the country, it's raining half the time. It's not a workable solution for many hundreds of students per school.
    4. PPE was not allocated. My understanding is that a small cleaning budget was allocated, but I don't know the details. I know teachers were not provided with PPE like the Gardaí, medical staff and every other industry/sector I can think of.
    5. You would have to rely on every student to do this properly. Some will do a good job, others won't even try. They put their grubby hands onto more than just the table surface. Never look at the underside of a desk in a classroom :D

    1. The teachers could eat in their classrooms, like people have to eat at their desks in offices
    2. Funding was allocated, more than a "small cleaning budget". Also applies to your point 4.
    3. True, but much of the time it's drizzle. Children and teachers aren't made of sugar, and can wear raincoats.
    5. It's better than nothing, and they should be reminded of how to do it properly regularly.

    I firmly believe that most schools want to make a good go of this, and are doing so. I believe that's why we're not seeing massive numbers in schools, which is epidemiologically the evidence at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    1. The teachers could eat in their classrooms, like people have to eat at their desks in offices
    2. Funding was allocated, more than a "small cleaning budget". Also applies to your point 4.
    3. True, but much of the time it's drizzle. Children and teachers aren't made of sugar, and can wear raincoats.
    5. It's better than nothing, and they should be reminded of how to do it properly regularly.

    I firmly believe that most schools want to make a good go of this, and are doing so. I believe that's why we're not seeing massive numbers in schools, which is epidemiologically the evidence at the moment.

    1. If I was a teacher, I wouldn't have an issue with this. Would make for a tougher day with no adults to speak to, but it would work for me. However, many schools have a number of prefab classrooms which are just not suitable for anything and I suspect most people would refuse to use these for their lunch breaks. Teachers are not construction workers.
    2. I can't comment further, other than to say that from what my OH has said, in her school of nearly a thousand students, the allocation covered a few extra hours per week for cleaners and an inadequate supply of sanitisers. The budget didn't cover signage, masks, perspex barriers or anything like that. Same for point 4. It's like going into McDonalds with €2 to buy your dinner. You'll be begging at the door, or be leaving with your pockets full of ketchup to make up the difference.
    3. And much of the time it's bucketing for the whole day. We don't have a suitable climate for outdoor teaching and even if there were no rain, it's not practical to expect a conducive learning experience outdoors in Ireland unless we are talking about the weather.
    5. If you have a couple of children, that's good advice. If you have 30 kids every hour on average for 6 or 7 periods.....sorry, it's not happening.

    Good advice is not always practical, but we should introduce whatever is practical.

    Stay Free



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    1. The teachers could eat in their classrooms, like people have to eat at their desks in offices
    2. Funding was allocated, more than a "small cleaning budget". Also applies to your point 4.
    3. True, but much of the time it's drizzle. Children and teachers aren't made of sugar, and can wear raincoats.
    5. It's better than nothing, and they should be reminded of how to do it properly regularly.

    I firmly believe that most schools want to make a good go of this, and are doing so. I believe that's why we're not seeing massive numbers in schools, which is epidemiologically the evidence at the moment.

    1. In our school teachers no longer have their own classrooms.
    2. Funding was limited
    3. Space outside would be an issue for some schools. A lot of schools have built on yard space or had prefabs installed.
    4. Ppe supplied in my school was a visor and two reusable masks per teacher
    5. Varying levels of effort and competence depending on students you have


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Scotland are cancelling exams and relying on teacher assessment again for 2021
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/07/scotlands-national-5-exams-to-be-cancelled-next-year

    Wouldn't be at all surprised if the same happened here


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Scotland are cancelling exams and relying on teacher assessment again for 2021
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/07/scotlands-national-5-exams-to-be-cancelled-next-year

    Wouldn't be at all surprised if the same happened here

    Let's hope they do a better job of it if they do it again here. My son is in his final year and is aiming for top marks for law.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Scotland are cancelling exams and relying on teacher assessment again for 2021
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/07/scotlands-national-5-exams-to-be-cancelled-next-year

    Wouldn't be at all surprised if the same happened here

    Personally, I'll be objecting hugely, as a teacher, to a repeat of the farce that happened this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭DSN


    Personally, I'll be objecting hugely, as a teacher, to a repeat of the farce that happened this year.

    It's just the GCSCs/Junior Cert equivalent though in Scotland, still plan to go ahead with Highers/LC equivalent far as I can see?

    I think its good that they've announced it now so students/teachers prepared for the continuous assessments & its not landed on them at last minute & least then focus on final year student exams to cater safely for if needs be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    DSN wrote: »
    It's just the GCSCs/Junior Cert equivalent though in Scotland, still plan to go ahead with Highers/LC equivalent far as I can see?

    I think its good that they've announced it now so students/teachers prepared for the continuous assessments & its not landed on them at last minute & least then focus on final year student exams to cater safely for if needs be.

    That's a good point. I would have thought that any continuous assessment would have been standardised so not a huge problem for teachers to implement- once the curriculum has been set that is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    That's a good point. I would have thought that any continuous assessment would have been standardised so not a huge problem for teachers to implement- once the curriculum has been set that is.

    Is there any negative remark from someone working in a school that you would agree on?

    Your comment that "teachers and students aren't made of sugar, so they can handle rain" is actually disgraceful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Is there any negative remark from someone working in a school that you would agree on?

    Your comment that "teachers and students aren't made of sugar, so they can handle rain" is actually disgraceful.

    :eek: I actually replied to that post. I've become so well adapted to skipping over negative, condescending posts, I missed that part of the comment. And how dare that poster say such a thing! My Wife (a teacher) is most definitely made of sugar. :p

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Is there any negative remark from someone working in a school that you would agree on?

    Your comment that "teachers and students aren't made of sugar, so they can handle rain" is actually disgraceful.

    Nice bit of paraphrasing there. Going out for a walk around the block when it’s drizzling, while wearing a rain coat, isn’t going to hurt anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Nice bit of paraphrasing there. Going out for a walk around the block when it’s drizzling, while wearing a rain coat, isn’t going to hurt anyone.

    You realize not every class is pe of course? Our students have 2 hours a week out of 28 hours, cant well "go for a walk around the block" Doing maths or english


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Nice bit of paraphrasing there. Going out for a walk around the block when it’s drizzling, while wearing a rain coat, isn’t going to hurt anyone.

    Paraphrasing? It's pretty much a direct quote. How is going for a walk going to assist me achieve my educational outcomes in a class? Your "solutions" are populist balderdash, at least have the good grace to say "yeah actually you're right, I didn't think that through, sorry", as opposed to doubling down on nonsense. You want 700 students to idly walk around the block for a few hours a day in the rain and claim to be concerned about education?

    That's not to mention the required teacher student ratio needed when teachers go on out of classroom activities, the insurance implications, the parental concerns about Johnny missing history for a walk for the 4th time this year, I mean the list is endless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Paraphrasing? It's pretty much a direct quote. How is going for a walk going to assist me achieve my educational outcomes in a class? Your "solutions" are populist balderdash, at least have the good grace to say "yeah actually you're right, I didn't think that through, sorry", as opposed to doubling down on nonsense. You want 700 students to idly walk around the block for a few hours a day in the rain and claim to be concerned about education?

    That's not to mention the required teacher student ratio needed when teachers go on out of classroom activities, the insurance implications, the parental concerns about Johnny missing history for a walk for the 4th time this year, I mean the list is endless.

    Never mind that the second the students would be outside the masks would be off and they'd be hanging off each other.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    One thing I will give you credit for there is the fact that in advocating for "a walk around the block" you acknowledge the fact that it is probably for the best if not everyone is in thr building at all times. Almost as if... A.. Shock... Hybrid approach of some at home some at school is the best option..


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    The thing with the whole heading out for a walk thing is that 1. Parents will be giving out that little Mary and Johnny are being brought out in the rain, 2. They'll be giving out that class time is being missed.

    There is already enough time lost in every class with washing and sanitising in primary. Same in secondary along with the time lost as teachers have to sanitise their work area as they arrive/leave along with logging into the work station seeing as teachers in the vast majority of secondary schools have now lost their rooms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    First total school closure Longford

    wont be the last


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    First total school closure Longford

    wont be the last

    I thought that Schools already closed in Celbridge and Meelick


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    First total school closure Longford

    wont be the last

    Not the first, first was in Celbridge weeks ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭grinder23


    The completely unconfirmed story is that it is a teacher and most of the other teachers are close contacts so there isn't enough left to keep the school open for now


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