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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #8012
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    the onky school I can reference has almost doubled I space. I know they were lucky to be able to do this. I dont know the situation in every school.

    I am sure the one school I know isn't unique in creating more space?

    How did they create more space?


  • #8013
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    History Queen wrote: »
    Or we might need more teachers to teach classes when teachers are self isolating/restricting movements due to being close contacts or having symptoms, let alone if they are ill with Covid. Or are you suggesting that unsupervised classes doesn't come under the remit of safety and risk benefit?

    I do agree that more space would be a huge help

    I agree that additional staff to cover when teachers have symptoms is necessary. Other staff can row in to cover like in the health sector and police too. #oncallforireland


  • #8014
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Junior doctors threatened strike over working 36 hours in a row. How many hours does a teacher work in a week? ( sorry you walked into that one!)

    Re space - convert gyms, ensure all rooms in use, convert any and all space to big rooms. Put some students in the computer suites and zoom them in?

    All patients are essential. You probably shouldn't physically be occupying a hospital bed unless your essential? Other work would be outpatient work. Healthcare workers see patients with confirmed covid. Well documented that they are at higher risk than teachers worldwide. See all who have died

    Not walked into it, but you'd agree that standing up for unacceptable conditions that could be dangerous is an OK thing to do,which means you at least appreciate that in arguing in good faith.

    In terms of the practicalities of space and your suggestions, I'll just say that they've all been done. dcu has a lecture hall that fits 400 - under distancing rules they can now fit 45. Now apply that to your memory of schools, please.

    Your point about patients doesn't make sense to me, sorry. There is no need for teachers to physically see all students all the time in conditions which everyone knows don't follow every other protocol.


  • #8015
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    I agree that additional staff to cover when teachers have symptoms is necessary. Other staff can row in to cover like in the health sector and police too. #oncallforireland

    Already happening. Again you show your lack of knowledge of the sector.


  • #8016
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    History Queen wrote: »
    How did they create more space?

    they had alot of extra capacity to start with. A bus shed, large gathering hall, an adjacent building that was unoccupied and very suitable for a school


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  • #8017
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Very few people intentionally do anything to harm others when safe options are available. I dont consider not educating children safe or practical.

    Who said anything about not educating them. Staggered entry days, remote options, a million and one other ideas other than intentionally placing everyone in harms way, which is what they are doing. Intentionally.

    Thus again, why are hospitals and restaurants etc operating on restrictions and reduction in numbers etc and schools are at full physical flow.


  • #8018
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    History Queen wrote: »
    Already happening. Again you show your lack of knowledge of the sector.

    so then why are you asking for more staff to cover? You said there wasn't enough


  • #8019
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    they had alot of extra capacity to start with. A bus shed, large gathering hall, an adjacent building that was unoccupied and very suitable for a school

    Ah ok, not a completely unique situation but certainly rare. Most schools wouldn't be in this position.


  • #8020
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    JJJackal wrote: »
    so then why are you asking for more staff to cover? You said there wasn't enough

    Because this is cover ie supervision.. Not teaching. Jesus man. And there is a legal limit in how much you can ask of teachers to do this as it is voluntary and unpaid.


  • #8021
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    so then why are you asking for more staff to cover? You said there wasn't enough

    We don't have enough. That's the point. Staff were covering other staff absenses through s&s and putting classes together pre-pandemic. Obviously now classes can't be grouped together and there is even more absence this year due to Covid. Extra staff are badly badly needed.


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  • #8022
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Because this is cover ie supervision.. Not teaching. Jesus man. And there is a legal limit in how much you can ask of teachers to do this as it is voluntary and unpaid.

    I am glad doctors and nurses don't walk off the job or go on their lunch breaks when there is an emergency. Or not working more than 48 hours a week during covid because its above the legal limit.

    These are extraordinary times. Doing a little extra supervision while doing your work plans or correcting exams is too much for you? The legal limit is 48 hours a week. Do teachers work 48 hours a week now

    There will be no public support for an ASTI strike.


  • #8023
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    History Queen wrote: »
    We don't have enough. That's the point. Staff were covering other staff absenses through s&s and putting classes together pre-pandemic. Obviously now classes can't be grouped together and there is even more absence this year due to Covid. Extra staff are badly badly needed.

    I agree extra staff would help make this more smooth


  • #8024
    Queried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Queried


    JJJackal wrote: »
    the onky school I can reference has almost doubled I space. I know they were lucky to be able to do this. I dont know the situation in every school.

    I am sure the one school I know isn't unique in creating more space?

    To be honest, from what I know of, this is very unusual. I suppose it depends on the location of the school. I work in an urban area where school places are hard to come by and classes are full to capacity. It's great to hear that there are schools that could manage social distancing but it unfortunately is not the norm in my experience.


  • #8025
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Queried wrote: »
    To be honest, from what I know of, this is very unusual. I suppose it depends on the location of the school. I work in an urban area where school places are hard to come by and classes are full to capacity. It's great to hear that there are schools that could manage social distancing but it unfortunately is not the norm in my experience.

    The school i am referring to is a great well run school. They are lucky


  • #8026
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I work in many plants across food, dairy, pharmaceutical etc..

    And I can tell you there is no magic safety protocalls in place that schools don't have.

    Sure just look at supermarkets.

    The argument could be made schools are just as safe/dangerous depending on your point of view.

    Sure, just look at them, enforcing strictly low numbers from customers at a time and social distancing and masks and new food sale/return protocols!! :rolleyes:


  • #8027
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    JJJackal wrote: »
    I am glad doctors and nurses don't walk off the job or go on their lunch breaks when there is an emergency. Or not working more than 48 hours a week during covid because its above the legal limit.

    These are extraordinary times. Doing a little extra supervision while doing your work plans or correcting exams is too much for you? The legal limit is 48 hours a week. Do teachers work 48 hours a week now

    There will be no public support for an ASTI strike.

    Sorry I thought we were talking about spacing conditions and theor legality? Did you perchance try to change the subject because you can't square the circle of your argument. Mention holidays why don't you and complete the set.

    I ask you again for like the 9th time. Why are there restrictions on restaurants and hospitals in terms of capacity, but no effort is being made to ensure students have a safe environment in which to learn?


  • #8028
    Locotastic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    niamh247 wrote: »
    Strictly speaking, primary schooling should not be taken seriously at all. Skipping a few more months should not matter. Countries such as South Korea, states in USA have decided on online schooling.

    But the bigger problem is, parents seem to think that more time to spend with their kids is a problem instead of an opportunity to make better bonds and impart values.

    I take it you either dont have a job or kids where you maybe you try to plan around school opening and holidays?

    Parents who work usually try to do it around school times so that they are available to spend time with their kids as much as possible outside of this.

    Working parents make up a large part of the input to our economy. Are you saying that those parents don't have bonds and family values or that they don't cherish time with their family.

    Plenty of parents would love to be at home all the time but unfortunately in the big grown up world that's not always possible.

    Your post sounds naive Niamh.

    As for ASTI, that's one picket line I would not want to be part of.


  • #8029
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    There is no distancing in every place I have quoted.

    Nor in supermarkets.

    Nor when gards have to do their job.

    What about taxi drivers?

    There is no distancing in food processing plants.

    Can you give any rebut to my points above?

    That is a bald faced lie. I was in a fruit/veg market today - social distancing required. I was also in Supervalu, Tesco, a pharmacy and mobile phone shop. All required social distancing and a wait outside if the numbers inside were too high.


  • #8030
    Queried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Queried


    JJJackal wrote: »
    The school i am referring to is a great well run school. They are lucky

    For sure, I'm glad to hear of it. I would definitely feel much more comfortable in that situation. To be fair, my school management is doing everything they can with the resources available but I wish we were in a better position to put safeguards in place.


  • #8031
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Very few people intentionally do anything to harm others when safe options are available. I dont consider not educating children safe or practical.

    4 words: Remote. Hybrid. Learning. Model.


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  • #8032
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    I am glad doctors and nurses don't walk off the job or go on their lunch breaks when there is an emergency. Or not working more than 48 hours a week during covid because its above the legal limit.

    These are extraordinary times. Doing a little extra supervision while doing your work plans or correcting exams is too much for you? The legal limit is 48 hours a week. Do teachers work 48 hours a week now

    There will be no public support for an ASTI strike.

    You realise teachers have their own classes? I have 6 free classes per week. 3 of which are designated for supervision as is. There is a scheme this year where teachers can opt for extra paid supervision but even with most people signing up for it, our Deputy has already had difficulty covering classes.


  • #8033
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Sorry I thought we were talking about spacing conditions and theor legality? Did you perchance try to change the subject because you can't square the circle of your argument. Mention holidays why don't you and complete the set.

    I ask you again for like the 9th time. Why are there restrictions on restaurants and hospitals in terms of capacity, but no effort is being made to ensure students have a safe environment in which to learn?

    What are you talking about? I said more space is better. What legality?

    As I answered each time: What restrictions are in place in hospitals for capacity? If 400 patients present for admission to a 350 bed hospital do you think 50 are turned away?

    As I have answered restaurants etc are not essential. I like most people think schools are essential


  • #8034
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    JJJackal wrote: »
    What are you talking about? I said more space is better. What legality?

    As I answered each time: What restrictions are in place in hospitals for capacity? If 400 patients present for admission to a 350 bed hospital do you think 50 are turned away?

    As I have answered restaurants etc are not essential. I like most people think schools are essential

    . In a case like that the Critical Incidence plan would come into operation before the 400 turn up en masse. THey would be triaged and spread amongst the local hospitals


  • #8035
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    I agree extra staff would help make this more smooth

    Then why did you say "You don't need more teachers or staff" in a previous post?


  • #8036
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    irishblessing wrote: »
    4 words: Remote. Hybrid. Learning. Model.

    now all you need is for every student to have a laptop and broadband and all teachers to be setup to deliver remote hybrid learning model.

    All students to have access to high speed broadband is going to cost North of 3 billion. National broadband plan.

    Not possible overnight


  • #8037
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    irishblessing wrote: »
    That is a bald faced lie. I was in a fruit/veg market today - social distancing required. I was also in Supervalu, Tesco, a pharmacy and mobile phone shop. All required social distancing and a wait outside if the numbers inside were too high.

    I've noticed smaller shops have been better with monitoring the number of customers in store and making people wait outside if it gets too crowded.

    My local Dunnes, Tesco and Lidl had one-in-one-out entry during the height of the lockdown during busy times. They have removed entry limits entirely in recent weeks. Mostly its OK, but at times they are way too crowded and when that happens no staff are limiting entry whatsoever. Serious complacency is setting in amongst the bigger stores. Social distancing inside stores can't happen if they are crowded.

    It's grand if most people are wearing masks, but the amount of people wearing them incorrectly is staggering - either not covering their nose or just not fitting their face at all.
    JJJackal wrote: »
    I agree extra staff would help make this more smooth

    Definitely. The problem is, are the staff available? We've been hearing about staffing issues in primary and post primary schools for years now.


  • #8038
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    History Queen wrote: »
    Then why did you say "You don't need more teachers or staff" in a previous post?

    More smooth is not the same as saying essential.


  • #8039
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    JJJackal wrote: »
    What are you talking about? I said more space is better. What legality?

    As I answered each time: What restrictions are in place in hospitals for capacity? If 400 patients present for admission to a 350 bed hospital do you think 50 are turned away?

    As I have answered restaurants etc are not essential. I like most people think schools are essential

    What restrictions? Non essential canceled, no visitors, no partners.
    If there is an emergency im sure that ppl will be accommodates but non essential are told to stay at home. Which when you apply to schools, where there is not an emergency ever, though an argument can be made for the lc students, then why would you not operate in the safest manner possible.

    So you have not answered at all, you just seem to want all students sitting in a packed classroom regardless. Not every school has a bus shed and a spare idle building sitting around, and the DES certainly didn't offer to fund any extra staff to man those buildings.

    Do you not see where your logic falls short? Really?


  • #8040
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭History Queen


    JJJackal wrote: »
    More smooth is not the same as saying essential.

    But more staff are essential. We can't leave students unsupervised.


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  • #8041
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    khalessi wrote: »
    . In a case like that the Critical Incidence plan would come into operation before the 400 turn up en masse. THey would be triaged and spread amongst the local hospitals

    Can you reference this?

    Obviously the 400 won't probably turn up at once. Likely you have 350 patients occupying 350 beds and 50 present needing beds giving 400 needing beds


This discussion has been closed.
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