How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

JJJackal

Smacruairi wrote: »

What restrictions? Non essential canceled, no visitors, no partners.
If there is an emergency im sure that ppl will be accommodates but non essential are told to stay at home. Which when you apply to schools, where there is not an emergency ever, though an argument can be made for the lc students, then why would you not operate in the safest manner possible.

So you have not answered at all, you just seem to want all students sitting in a packed classroom regardless. Not every school has a bus shed and a spare idle building sitting around, and the DES certainly didn't offer to fund any extra staff to man those buildings.

Do you not see where your logic falls short? Really?

Is education essential? Yes or no

Thats the answer to the above

irishblessing

JJJackal wrote: »

now all you need is for every student to have a laptop and broadband and all teachers to be setup to deliver remote hybrid learning model.

All students to have access to high speed broadband is going to cost North of 3 billion. National broadband plan.

Not possible overnight

You don't understand what a remote hybrid learning model is for one.

It is also possible to provide funding for those in economic need.

The word "hybrid" is a very crucial word to try to understand. Some can be in school full time. Some can go part time. Some can be taught from home full time. This will reduce class sizes.

I can also confirm that even our very small, rural county school has over the summer months updated their wifi capability and we just received a letter last week telling us that a remote learning plan has been chosen and is getting ready to be finalised. This will come into play should students need to quarantine or the teachers or the class/school/county-country lockdown scenario.

The virus will pull that plug whether we're full of excuses or not so better to prepare for it and keep students/teachers/staff safer in the meantime too.

khalessi

JJJackal wrote: »

Can you reference this?

Obviously the 400 won't probably turn up at once. Likely you have 350 patients occupying 350 beds and 50 present needing beds giving 400 needing beds

Yep I can, ring every general Casualty and they will tell you. As a nurse we used to practice and I have seen it in use twice. Every hospital has a critical incident plan for gas explosions major RTAs, it is rolled out as necessary. So in the case of a major incident it would be rolled out.

Smacruairi

JJJackal wrote: »

Can you reference this?

Obviously the 400 won't probably turn up at once. Likely you have 350 patients occupying 350 beds and 50 present needing beds giving 400 needing beds

Obviously... In your random hypothetical analogy which would be the biggest medical emergency this country has seen in a long thing.. All so you can explain away why students should just suck it up and take it and sit in over crowded rooms for hours on end in the middle of the worst pandemic in a hundred years just so that the govt don't try to do schooling differently.

Right.

Queried

JJJackal wrote: »

More smooth is not the same as saying essential.

Legally every classroom needs to be supervised at all times by a teacher (this has not been good for my bladder over the years :pac:).

Smacruairi

JJJackal wrote: »

Is education essential? Yes or no

Thats the answer to the above

Yes it is. It can be provided safely in a hybrid manner.

Why isn't the govt attempting this?

JJJackal

irishblessing wrote: »

You don't understand what a remote hybrid learning model is for one.

It is also possible to provide funding for those in economic need.

The word "hybrid" is a very crucial word to try to understand. Some can be in school full time. Some can go part time. Some can be taught from home full time. This will reduce class sizes.

I can also confirm that even our very small, rural country school has over the summer months updated their wifi capability and we just received a letter last week telling us that a remote learning plan has been chosen and is getting ready to be finalised. This will come into play should students need to quarantine or the teachers or the class/school/county-country lockdown scenario.

The virus will pull that plug whether we're full of excuses or not so better to prepare for it and keep students/teachers/staff safer in the meantime too.

I understand the concept.

All students still need laptops and Internet? Yes or no?

Smacruairi

JJJackal wrote: »

I understand the concept.

All students still need laptops and Internet? Yes or no?

What's better, getting every kid a computer, or having them sit in medically hazardous conditions.

JJJackal

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yes it is. It can be provided safely in a hybrid manner.

Why isn't the govt attempting this?

does a hybrid model require all students to have Internet and laptop?

Social interaction, seemingly undetvalued, is an essential part of their education

JJJackal

Smacruairi wrote: »

What's better, getting every kid a computer, or having them sit in medically hazardous conditions.

does the computer require Internet?

History Queen

Queried wrote: »

Legally every classroom needs to be supervised at all times by a teacher (this has not been good for my bladder over the years :pac:).

Although in some schools this issue is now being ignored with students staying in base classrooms and teachers moving.

Smacruairi

JJJackal wrote: »

does a hybrid model require all students to have Internet and laptop?

Social interaction, seemingly undetvalued, is an essential part of their education

Yes I agree. Do they need to see each other every hour of every day? I think half days are more than enough for socialising, don't you think? 1-3yr in until lunch and remote work after lunch. Reverse for senior. Even that extremely rudimentary attempt is better than overcrowding students in spaces which are actively discouraged by the who. Why are you going against their advice? Do you not care for children's health?

Queried

History Queen wrote: »

Although in some schools this issue is now being ignored with students staying in base classrooms and teachers moving.

Very true, I'm a primary school teacher so my situation is different but that's a very good point.

Icyseanfitz

JJJackal wrote: »

I understand the concept.

All students still need laptops and Internet? Yes or no?

no they dont with differing models of hybrid learning, one example would be half of students in on one week to do all the physical learning, off the next week to do all the assigned homework tasks. simple little way, I am sure many other more efficient ways could be come up with such as Mexico going completely remote for education this year by using the countries tv and radio broadcasting abilities to do remote schooling, again, very simple.

Where there is a will there is a way!

Icyseanfitz

JJJackal wrote: »

does a hybrid model require all students to have Internet and laptop?

Social interaction, seemingly undetvalued, is an essential part of their education

i can tell you from working with 700 students at a rural post primary school that the majority of the students all met their friends throughout the summer, so socially they where perfectly okay.

irishblessing

JJJackal wrote: »

does a hybrid model require all students to have Internet and laptop?

Social interaction, seemingly undetvalued, is an essential part of their education

Yes, that would be the goal. It would also be possible for the very small number of students who don't have access/can't be provided for to be taught either in the school or via homework instructions.

We are moving to include parents in the Aladdin system for all communication with parents so they are already assuming parents can access the internet at home. There may be very few who can't and there will have to be workaround solutions. The vast majority can make it work.

Social interaction is important, but their health and their parents/family members they live with are also important. Health must come first, and it won't last forever so we'll all have to do what needs to be done.

If a hybrid model was rolled out from the get go, then our schools would be safer and would probably be able to remain open for longer.

JJJackal

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yes I agree. Do they need to see each other every hour of every day? I think half days are more than enough for socialising, don't you think? 1-3yr in until lunch and remote work after lunch. Reverse for senior. Even that extremely rudimentary attempt is better than overcrowding students in spaces which are actively discouraged by the who. Why are you going against their advice? Do you not care for children's health?

I do. Health is not solely the absence of disease it is a state of complete mental physical and social well being. The risk to children with no underlying health condition from covid is low. Do you understand what is necessary for a healthy child? Locking them away for months is not the answer.

This is what the CDC says re school closure:

School closures have clear negative impacts on child health, education and development, family income and the overall economy.

The decision to reopen schools should include consideration of the following benefits:

Allowing students to complete their studies and continue to the next levelEssential services, access to nutrition, child welfare, such as preventing violence against childrenSocial and psychological well-beingAccess to reliable information on how to keep themselves and others safeReducing the risk of non-return to schoolBenefit to society, such as allowing parents to work

JJJackal

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i can tell you from working with 700 students at a rural post primary school that the majority of the students all met their friends throughout the summer, so socially they where perfectly okay.

So they were already closely interacting with lots of young people... likely unsupervised with no social distance...

Queried

JJJackal wrote: »

does a hybrid model require all students to have Internet and laptop?

Social interaction, seemingly undetvalued, is an essential part of their education

During lockdown and remote teaching our staff were asked to identify the pupils who could not access our online system due to lack of facilities so that we could send out school laptops and iPads to them. To be fair, facilitating wifi would be beyond what we could cover but our school did do everything it could to accommodate pupils. Work packs were posted to those who couldnt engage, though fortunately that wasn't an issue in my class.

Icyseanfitz

JJJackal wrote: »

I do. Health is not solely the absence of disease it is a state of complete mental physical and social well being. The risk to children with no underlying health condition from covid is low. Do you understand what is necessary for a healthy child? Locking them away for months is not the answer.

This is what the CDC says re school closure:

School closures have clear negative impacts on child health, education and development, family income and the overall economy.

The decision to reopen schools should include consideration of the following benefits:

Allowing students to complete their studies and continue to the next levelEssential services, access to nutrition, child welfare, such as preventing violence against childrenSocial and psychological well-beingAccess to reliable information on how to keep themselves and others safeReducing the risk of non-return to schoolBenefit to society, such as allowing parents to work

the highlighted parts of your post are the primary reasons why irish schools where thrown back at full capacity with nothing but bull**** optics to pretend they where safe, i appreciate that you know of a school with near unlimited free space, but i can assure you that is not the case for 99% of irish schools.

irishblessing

JJJackal wrote: »

I do. Health is not solely the absence of disease it is a state of complete mental physical and social well being. The risk to children with no underlying health condition from covid is low. Do you understand what is necessary for a healthy child? Locking them away for months is not the answer.

This is what the CDC says re school closure:

School closures have clear negative impacts on child health, education and development, family income and the overall economy.

The decision to reopen schools should include consideration of the following benefits:

Allowing students to complete their studies and continue to the next levelEssential services, access to nutrition, child welfare, such as preventing violence against childrenSocial and psychological well-beingAccess to reliable information on how to keep themselves and others safeReducing the risk of non-return to schoolBenefit to society, such as allowing parents to work

We are not now talking about school closures - unless a hybrid learning model isn't implemented. No one is advocating for school closures and locking children away for months. Not sure why you're so stuck on that agenda.

Icyseanfitz

JJJackal wrote: »

So they were already closely interacting with lots of young people... likely unsupervised with no social distance...

massive and i mean massive difference between interacting with your little group of close friends (say 5-10) and being stuck in a tiny classroom with crappy ventilation, no social distancing and 25-30 kids, please dont make me elaborate further on why the two situations couldn't be any more different, please

JJJackal

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

the highlighted parts of your post are the primary reasons why irish schools where thrown back at full capacity with nothing but bull**** optics to pretend they where safe, i appreciate that you know of a school with near unlimited free space, but i can assure you that is not the case for 99% of irish schools.

This is the CDC recommendation, not the Irish government.

The CDC is one of the leading institutions in the world on infectious diseases.

khalessi

JJJackal wrote: »

This is the CDC recommendation, not the Irish government.

The CDC is one of the leading institutions in the world on infectious diseases.

The ECDC which is a branch of the CDC also made recommendations for Health and safety which is implemented by our government everywhere but schools.
Are children entitled to a safe environment?

Smacruairi

JJJackal wrote: »

I do. Health is not solely the absence of disease it is a state of complete mental physical and social well being. The risk to children with no underlying health condition from covid is low. Do you understand what is necessary for a healthy child? Locking them away for months is not the answer.

This is what the CDC says re school closure:

School closures have clear negative impacts on child health, education and development, family income and the overall economy.

The decision to reopen schools should include consideration of the following benefits:

Allowing students to complete their studies and continue to the next levelEssential services, access to nutrition, child welfare, such as preventing violence against childrenSocial and psychological well-beingAccess to reliable information on how to keep themselves and others safeReducing the risk of non-return to schoolBenefit to society, such as allowing parents to work

Well is a good thing the hybrid model allows for everyone to see each other in healthy situations, and no one is advocating locking them away. In rooms where 2m distancing as recommended by the WHO should be fine. Or are you ssying the WHO doesn't know what is best for the health of a child?

Allowing parents to work, is that your real reason then? You'd sacrifice the health of all school workers, students with underlying conditions, students wellbeing in general if they infected their families, all rather than attempt any other method of schooling that has been suggested which could be carried out in situations that I remind you, every other sector is following.
Allowing parents to work, do secondary school kids need round the clock supervision?

Icyseanfitz

JJJackal wrote: »

This is the CDC recommendation, not the Irish government.

The CDC is one of the leading institutions in the world on infectious diseases.

and that makes sacrificing kids and school staff for the economy okay....

JJJackal

Smacruairi wrote: »

Well is a good thing the hybrid model allows for everyone to see each other in healthy situations, and no one is advocating locking them away. In rooms where 2m distancing as recommended by the WHO should be fine. Or are you ssying the WHO doesn't know what is best for the health of a child?

Allowing parents to work, is that your real reason then? You'd sacrifice the health of all school workers, students with underlying conditions, students wellbeing in general if they infected their families, all rather than attempt any other method of schooling that has been suggested which could be carried out in situations that I remind you, every other sector is following.
Allowing parents to work, do secondary school kids need round the clock supervision?

Parents to work is a CDC reason - international experts etc. I copied their full recommendations. Did t leave out a piece that wouldn't suit my position.

Doesn't impact me re kids and childcarr

Smacruairi

JJJackal wrote: »

Parents to work is a CDC reason - international experts etc. I copied their full recommendations. Did t leave out a piece that wouldn't suit my position.

Doesn't impact me re kids and childcarr

So health of kids can be risked so that parents go to work. Thsts your position and youre happy with it?

JJJackal

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

and that makes sacrificing kids and school staff for the economy okay....

What are you talking about sacrifice? Emotive language to illicit an emotive response.

Are you willing to sacrifice a generations mental and social development? How manynlives will be lost with that

JJJackal

Smacruairi wrote: »

So health of kids can be risked so that parents go to work. Thsts your position and youre happy with it?

I referenced the CDC position

This is the who position

School closures have clear negative impacts on child health, education and development, family income and the overall economy.

The decision to reopen schools should include consideration of the following benefits:

Allowing students to complete their studies and continue to the next level
Essential services, access to nutrition, child welfare, such as preventing violence against children
Social and psychological well-being
Access to reliable information on how to keep themselves and others safe
Reducing the risk of non-return to school
Benefit to society, such as allowing parents to work