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Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    What I don't get is country leaders and politicians touching elbows when it was said we were to cough into our elbows.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,458 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Jeff2 wrote: »
    What I don't get is country leaders and politicians touching elbows when it was said we were to cough into our elbows.

    Different sides of the elbow :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,196 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,147 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Jeff2 wrote: »
    What I don't get is country leaders and politicians touching elbows when it was said we were to cough into our elbows.

    It looks so naff - like chest bump knackerish - namaste looks so much better


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Can posters stop with the throwaway comments of 'doom monger' to people who dare to engage in reasonable debate and offer varying viewpoints, it's completely ridiculous, we have people being hounded by some people because they dare to put a different consensus across that are reasonably knowledgeable and it's making this thread really annoying to read and not for the first time.


    Please stop trying to make the thread an echo chamber, becomes more and more like Reddit by the day as a result tbh and lack of civility is putting a lot of people off.

    ETA: I think a thread on global situation with general updates might be preferable at this stage


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Where did you see this?
    s1ippy wrote: »
    ...would you ever ask them about people who are contracting this again and what the prevailing research is as to why:

    https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/immuniteit-een-illusie-vrouw-overlijdt-na-tweede-positieve-coronatest~a825db62/

    522836.jpeg
    I'm sure there's more than this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,869 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    spookwoman wrote: »

    Its like Deja Vu from February and March when folk returned from their skiing holidays in Italy.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    s1ippy wrote: »
    I'm sure there's more than this.

    All I saw there was 'it has never been proven'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,147 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    All I saw there was 'it has never been proven'.

    A lot of people do not understand what immunity is...

    It is not like this

    616X9S-goKL._AC_SL1200_.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    darjeeling wrote: »
    We do trust it to work for pregnancies, and the test would have to be as simple and reliable.
    But right now our alternative to self-testing is not testing.

    But if you know anything about testing then you would understand that PCR is the most reliable test for Virus and bacteria, you are testing for the pathogen itself not the body reaction to it. How do you specify between common cold virus and SARS-Cov-2? it the particular genetic sequence of the RNA you test for.

    Home Pregnancy test is really only indicative only, you go to doctor they refer you for HCG test as that is accurate. Indicative is good enough for home testing pregnancy test is good enough for home use because you are just detecting a hormone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Different sides of the elbow :)

    So cough Inside my elbow there is no chance the virus could get to the outside of my elbow. ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I'd just like to point out discussions NPHET have highlighted on concerns of community transmission recently. It's inevitable that clusters popping up across the country will lead to increased community transmission, and people haven't given this due consideration.

    The debate about containment has often been focused on not overwhelming the hospitals, which was obviously a real concern at start of outbreak.

    But what is really important to focus on though in meantime is ability to keep on top of clusters.Strategy of containment starts with containment of clusters. If our public health response teams become overwhelmed, the chance of spike of community transmission increases, and potential of increased hospitalisation arises again. It is vital that clusters remain controlled. Which is why some sectors remain closed. Would like to write post expanding on this point tomorrow .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,196 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    It'll be accurate if you do it a few times, best of 5. Post them to everyone, if it's positive 2 out of 5 times don't budge for two week or go for a lab test then. We'd know where we stand straight away. It's rapid testing and points of entry to the country from then on.
    I think it's a better idea than the traffic lights. Whack a mole isn't going to work.

    If this was remotely viable and reliable do you not think smarter people than you and I would already suggest to implement this?

    Even PCR which is extremely sensitive is limited to the infection timeline, day 1 of infection likely you don’t have enough virus in your test site to be collected by swab....maybe by day 3 the virus has replicated enough that of it makes on to the swab.

    It’s the same with HIV, the virus only become detectable about 6 weeks after infection but they recommend test window 3 months to be sure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Covididiots

    Yep probably one of Debbies that are experts in virology on facebook and social media


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    All I saw there was 'it has never been proven'.

    Neither had aerosol transmission until this study

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/a-smoking-gun-infectious-coronavirus-retrieved-from-hospital-air-1.4329428

    At this point, take nothing for granted, lest you discover that the science has changed radically since your "educated" decision.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    If this was remotely viable and reliable do you not think smarter people than you and I would already suggest to implement this?

    Even PCR which is extremely sensitive is limited to the infection timeline, day 1 of infection likely you don’t have enough virus in your test site to be collected by swab....maybe by day 3 the virus has replicated enough that of it makes on to the swab.

    It’s the same with HIV, the virus only become detectable about 6 weeks after infection but they recommend test window 3 months to be sure.

    I'm not sure anybody smarter than us can be as creative, they don't always go hand in hand.

    They used a home pin prick test in the UK to check for antibodies with the first 100,000 volunteers. The results have been published https://www.gov.uk/government/news/largest-home-antibody-testing-programme-for-covid-19-publishes-findings

    One of the results was that smokers were less likely to have antibodies does this add any weight to the evidence that smoking blocks the receptors covid needs to latch onto. It's one of the reasons the Spanish smoking ban today struck me as odd.

    From another study
    CONCLUSION The risk of infection by COVID-19 appears to be reduced by half among current smokers. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.01.20118877v2

    It's a bit mad but the evidence is pointing to smoking possibly being effective as a vaccine. Funny old world.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »

    Am I reading that correctly, Australians are quarantining people coming from different states?

    But ourselves can't manage that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    One of the results was that smokers were less likely to have antibodies does this add any weight to the evidence that smoking blocks the receptors covid needs to latch onto. It's one of the reasons the Spanish smoking ban today struck me as odd.

    From another study
    CONCLUSION The risk of infection by COVID-19 appears to be reduced by half among current smokers. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.01.20118877v2

    It's a bit mad but the evidence is pointing to smoking possibly being effective as a vaccine. Funny old world.

    Is it peer-reviewed? :pac:

    You can smoke whatever you want based on this paper but try to post peer-reviewed sources.

    This is the website disclaimer:
    Caution: Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news media as established information.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Ineedaname


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There's more than just one story, there's two in China, one in Durban, SA as well. And these are facts, no guessing on my part.

    Those are facts that a person tested positive twice not that they were reinfected. You hear these stories all the time and they are easily explained when you look into the rates of false positives among tests.

    South Korea showed a while back that a previously infected person can shed inactive virus fragments for months after infection. They even conducted a study on 200 or so that tested positive a second time. They found NO evidence that any of them were actually reinfected.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    From the Irish Times today
    - well worth the16 Euro a month digital subscription

    To protect our economy, a dose of pragmatism is needed in battle with virus

    Mark Paul

    We are all epidemiologists now, or at least we think we are. Just as we were all bond strategists during the financial crisis a decade ago, and your average taxi driver could riff coherently about the wisdom of defaulting on senior bank debt. Now, everyday conversations revolve around reproduction rates, 14-day virus incidences, and the propensity for airborne transmission in enclosed spaces.
    Of course, our new-found expertise is illusory. If you had asked most people six months ago to explain the difference between an epidemiologist and a dermatologist, they would have shrugged and poured you another whiskey.
    There is a difference between using the lingo of experts and truly understanding what it all means. Most of us will never properly comprehend the dynamics of a virus outbreak.
    Yet we don’t always have to have a molecular understanding of what experts say in order to make reasonable judgments about how, or to what degree, to build their advice into our lives. We use our common sense to parse expertise. For example, doctors are medical experts, but we all ignore them occasionally if their lifestyle edicts teeter into the peevish. Solicitors are legal experts, yet if newspapers always followed every scrap of their advice, they’d struggle to produce certain hard-hitting articles.
    And, yes, epidemiologists are experts in disease outbreaks. But if we had followed the advice of every epidemiologist and virologist who surfaced over recent months, we would probably not have reopened much of the economy this summer, we’d all still be under some form of movement restrictions, and we probably wouldn’t be contemplating fully opening schools in the coming weeks.
    Some will insist we still shouldn’t, but that degree of caution seems misguided. The threads that bind society and the economy will fray if we don’t look beyond Covid-19 every once in a while, and seek out ways to get things done, instead of cowering behind ways to do nothing. As well as saving lives, it is important that we live. And, one way or another, we may have to live with Covid for a long time.
    Uncertain prize
    Some epidemiologists and other medical experts believe that those of us who push this message are foolhardy. But we are not alone: there appears to be no major public clamour for a return to draconian measures, even for the uncertain prize of total victory over the virus, if that were even possible.People and businesses are capable of listening to experts and then weighing risk in their own spheres. Judging from the green shoots of commerce that we have seen recently, many appear to have calculated that it is worth it to venture out in search of some semblance of a new normality.
    It is better to progress while burning your fingers through trial and error, than swaying like reeds in the wind with every dire medical warning. There is still fear out there, but given the risk, it is not irrational.
    The tension between these two schools of thought is evident in a phony public debate that is happening at the moment. On one side there is a coterie of medical experts, including epidemiologists, who want Ireland to seek “zero-Covid” status by taking aggressive measures to totally eliminate the virus.
    On the other are those who fear the long-term economic and social scarring of some proposed measures, such as what effectively amounts to travel bans, and want policymakers to pursue a more pragmatic path.
    The debate is essentially a phony one because while it does initially appear as if the camps are on different sides, it isn’t really the case. We all want the best result for the largest number of people.
    Epidemiologists and virologists are not scaredy-cat killjoys who get their kicks from needlessly frightening the life out of people. Their expertise gives them a clear picture of the danger ahead, and they want to quash it.
    Similarly, people who advocate for economic and social reopening are, in general, not reckless know-nothings willing to sacrifice their grannies for a long weekend in Barcelona. Some, such as many highly-experienced business people, just have varying degrees of insight into the needs of a functioning liberal economy and appreciate the risks that arise when you deprive it of oxygen for too long. Everything will be smothered unless we’re careful.
    Zero-Covid experts
    Ireland must now chart a way forward. One of the drawbacks of living on a small island full of neurotic Celts is that we are too quick to look abroad for templates to copy. The most committed of libertarians among us, for example, would prefer if we went for something such as the Swedish strategy when fighting the virus. Meanwhile, the zero-Covid experts counsel that we should follow the Taiwanese approach or – their favourite example – New Zealand, which after effectively sealing its borders following a short but hellish lockdown, recently reached 100 days without any community transmission of the virus.
    But even after locking down its borders and suspending a range of what would normally be considered standard civil liberties, such as the ability to travel freely, New Zealand this week put its largest city, Auckland, and its 1.4 million inhabitants, back into a strict lockdown after the discovery of just four new virus cases. It also reintroduced lesser restrictions across the rest of the country.
    Four new cases. That’s all it took. If the renewal of such draconian and illiberal restrictions is the ever-present threat required to maintain Covid-free status, then I’m not sure that it is worth the price.
    It seems like the national equivalent of having a brand new car, but being too terrified to drive it in case it gets a scratch.
    Many people would rather we eschewed the New Zealand way, and the Taiwanese way and whatever other ways there are, and developed our own way, tailored to the unique make-up of Irish economy and society.
    Our entire economic and social model is built upon interacting with the rest of the world as much as we can. Irish people have always considered ourselves to be pragmatic. Our anti-virus approach should be, too. We must fight our own fear as hard as we fight the virus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭Polar101


    MOR316 wrote: »
    In conclusion, it's highly entertaining. Keep it up!
    And, if there are any Sociology students about, Boards.ie have just written your thesis for you ;)

    The TV series is already made.. "jump on them panic-mongers".



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Very interesting study. 80% of infections came from 14 % of individuals.

    over half of all transmission events occur before onset of symptoms.


    https://twitter.com/alinouriphd/status/1293913737041043460?s=21


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The mean time to ICU admission with Covid is 8 to 12 days.

    8 days ago our 7 day rolling average was 58. Where are all the ICU admissions? Never mind hospital admission?

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-update-20-00-13-august-2020.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭Beanybabog


    mandrake04 wrote: »

    Home Pregnancy test is really only indicative only, you go to doctor they refer you for HCG test as that is accurate. Indicative is good enough for home testing pregnancy test is good enough for home use because you are just detecting a hormone.

    . They make you pee on a stick the exact same as at home. On my third pregnancy and I didn’t even go to the GP, just told her on the phone, they trust the home tests. Not that I’m saying it’d work for this virus, just that the above isn’t true


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    The mean time to ICU admission with Covid is 8 to 12 days.
    ]
    Do you have a link for this? Not doubting you, just wondering whether the figure is based, eg, on a demographic as young as those currently being infected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Neither had aerosol transmission until this study

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/a-smoking-gun-infectious-coronavirus-retrieved-from-hospital-air-1.4329428

    At this point, take nothing for granted, lest you discover that the science has changed radically since your "educated" decision.

    I'm a mask sceptic obviously so my opinion will be 'tainted' by that. But I find the phrase 'smoking gun' just a slight bit of an exaggeration here.
    A research team at the University of Florida succeeded in isolating live virus from aerosols collected up to 5m from patients hospitalised with Covid-19 – farther than the 2m recommended in social-distancing guidelines.

    They measured a live virus in a room full of covid patients. Proving that aerosols with a live virus in it are detectable with high tech methods in such a setting. Fine. I don't think anyone ever doubted that possibility in the first place.

    The question is how relevant is that to the real world? Was that a detectable virus or a viable virus load that could actually infect someone? How do you compare a room full of covid19 patients with a random supermarket?

    The Americans have been on the moon. Man can go to the moon. Its proven. Doesn't mean its likely the wife and I are going to bump into John and Mary on the moon next week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    From the Irish Times today
    - well worth the16 Euro a month digital subscription
    Not based on that article.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 875 ✭✭✭mean gene


    Rubbish article


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Its an opinion piece. You may not agree with it but that hardly makes it a rubbish article.


This discussion has been closed.
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