Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

tudderone · 24-07-2020 08:46PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQY2CHx4d3U

Cass · 24-07-2020 11:07PM

I wish people would stop putting up pictures of Stephen Donnelly (either that or the man should wear a wig). Everytime i'm scrolling along some site and his picture starts to come along i see this:

6034073

...... which immediately makes me think of this:

Feisar · 26-07-2020 07:45PM

Binary trigger? Would a lad get away with one of these here?!!

tudderone · 26-07-2020 09:28PM

Feisar wrote: »

Binary trigger? Would a lad get away with one of these here?!!

Nope. I did hear of an eejit who mickyed around with a .22 semi-auto years ago to get it full auto, discovered it was worthless for anything apart from 5 minutes of fun, and then had the task of trying to buy spare parts to get it back to semi. Lots of awkward questions in gun dealers trying to get the parts.

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2020 01:28PM

Ever wondrd where the expression "the whole 9 yards " came from?

A standard US ammo belt for a 50 cal machine gun loaded onto a WW2 fighter aircraft or waist gunner on a B17 bomber* was 27 feet or 9yards when fully assembled.
So giving someone the "whole nine yards!" is self explanatory.

*[Depending on aircraft type and load out,so its a generalisation more than an accurate statement of fact]

BattleCorp · 27-07-2020 04:50PM

tudderone wrote: »

Nope. I did hear of an eejit who mickyed around with a .22 semi-auto years ago to get it full auto, discovered it was worthless for anything apart from 5 minutes of fun, and then had the task of trying to buy spare parts to get it back to semi. Lots of awkward questions in gun dealers trying to get the parts.

“semi-automatic firearms” means firearms that reload automatically from a magazine or cylinder each time a round is discharged but can fire not more than one round with a single pull on the trigger;

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yep, looks like that wouldn't be classed as a semi-automatic seeing as it fires two rounds for every single pull of the trigger (if set that way).

Looks fun but I'd guess the novelty would wear off once you remembered you have to pay for bullets.

yubabill · 27-07-2020 05:08PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

“semi-automatic firearms” means firearms that reload automatically from a magazine or cylinder each time a round is discharged but can fire not more than one round with a single pull on the trigger;

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yep, looks like that wouldn't be classed as a semi-automatic seeing as it fires two rounds for every single pull of the trigger (if set that way).

Looks fun but I'd guess the novelty would wear off once you remembered you have to pay for bullets.

I know it's mischief, but the franklin trigger fires one round when you pull it and then one round when you release it; you can hold the trigger after the first round, put it on S/A or safe and it will not discharge when you release the trigger.

Soooooo.......one round discharged with one pull, one round discharged with the release, looks a shade grey.

Ingenious work-around from Franklin, whether allowed here or not.

Feisar · 27-07-2020 06:10PM

yubabill wrote: »

I know it's mischief, but the franklin trigger fires one round when you pull it and then one round when you release it; you can hold the trigger after the first round, put it on S/A or safe and it will not discharge when you release the trigger.

Soooooo.......one round discharged with one pull, one round discharged with the release, looks a shade grey.

Ingenious work-around from Franklin, whether allowed here or not.

I’d say the argument coming back would be that it fires two rounds for every manipulation of the trigger.

Uinseann_16 · 27-07-2020 07:13PM

ATF approved because it indeed was a workaround so to speak of one round fired per pull of the trigger

So the company specifically designed this with the legal definition of semi automatic in mind

BattleCorp · 27-07-2020 09:55PM

Feisar wrote: »

I’d say the argument coming back would be that it fires two rounds for every manipulation of the trigger.

There is room for arguing the case though.

It does indeed only discharge one round with each trigger pull therefore it would seem to comply with the legislation.......... because the legislation doesn't mention the discharge of a round when you release the trigger.

The legislation mentions single pull of the trigger and not trigger manipulation so I think it complies with that.

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2020 10:04PM

I'd actually say it is legal.on the grounds of these points;

Firearms act of 1925 prohibits full auto weapons as does the EU legislation.
IE a firearm that fires continuously while the trigger is held down until released or the firearms ammo supply is exhausted.
This doesn't fit in this component.

Is it a burst fire mechanism? IE a firearm with a mechanism that fires a burst of[usually] three shots while the trigger is held down
No doesnt fit either.

Does it fire a round with a single MANIPULATION of the trigger?

YES,both on pulling and releasing the trigger. Two seperate and individual actions.Were you to hold the trigger for a X amount of time nothing will happen until you release it again and it will fire in binary mode.Be it one tenth of a second or five seconds later. Bar range rules ,there is no law here that says what your trigger time must be.:)

Was it designed,made and sold in a country that has a Federal agency that takes a dim view of illegal full auto weapons and devices that make non full auto firearms somewhat function like full auto firearms,and has a tech dept that actually takes these things in and examines and declares them kosher or not for sale,and occasinally changes their minds,mostly under political pressure or utter "cos we can...!so there!" attitude as to what full auto devices are and bans them from being possessed or made? IOW were they made as specifically NOT to be full auto conversions?

YES The US and BATFE

Would they be anyway useable here?
Unless you have a bunch of 25 plus round mags in .22 or some 20 rounders plus in a CF semi auto still for some strange reason,and a very healthy bank account to burn ammo...This is about as useful as a half door on a U boat here.
With a boring ten round mag you will just empty it in a quicker time by this mechanism than by pulling the trigger normally.:p .You are not going to get a nice decent BRRRRTTTT,with ten rounds. A Brrp! maybe,efore you are doing a mag dump again?:)
Nice toy,but I reckon once you have played with it for an afternoon,it will be a bit in the gun bits drawer.

Mellor · 29-07-2020 12:14AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

There is room for arguing the case though.

It does indeed only discharge one round with each trigger pull therefore it would seem to comply with the legislation.......... because the legislation doesn't mention the discharge of a round when you release the trigger.

The legislation mentions single pull of the trigger and not trigger manipulation so I think it complies with that.

The legislation doesn't mention release, which is where it falls down rather than is saved.

"Can fire not more than one round with a single pull on the trigger"
With a single pull, these triggers can fire two rounds. The fact a release is required is not relevant.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'd actually say it is legal.on the grounds of these points;

Firearms act of 1925 prohibits full auto weapons as does the EU legislation.
IE a firearm that fires continuously while the trigger is held down until released or the firearms ammo supply is exhausted.
This doesn't fit in this component.

Is it a burst fire mechanism? IE a firearm with a mechanism that fires a burst of[usually] three shots while the trigger is held down
No doesnt fit either.

Does it fire a round with a single MANIPULATION of the trigger?

YES,both on pulling and releasing the trigger. Two seperate and individual actions.Were you to hold the trigger for a X amount of time nothing will happen until you release it again and it will fire in binary mode.Be it one tenth of a second or five seconds later. Bar range rules ,there is no law here that says what your trigger time must be.:)

It doesn't meet the definition of full auto fire, clearly. (Firearms act 1925 doesn't cover full auto, does it?).

The US S/A definition refers to manipulation. And the ATF recognizes the release of the trigger as a separate manipulations. Therefore it is considered semi-auto in the US, hence why it is available.

The Irish definition does not refer to manipulation, it refers to pull. So therefore in Ireland, this is not a semi auto mechanism.
Not being a semi auto means means it's restricted, but not illegal/prohibited as far as I can see.

Would they be anyway useable here?
Unless you have a bunch of 25 plus round mags in .22 or some 20 rounders plus in a CF semi auto still for some strange reason,and a very healthy bank account to burn ammo...This is about as useful as a half door on a U boat here.
With a boring ten round mag you will just empty it in a quicker time by this mechanism than by pulling the trigger normally.:p .You are not going to get a nice decent BRRRRTTTT,with ten rounds. A Brrp! maybe,efore you are doing a mag dump again?:)
Nice toy,but I reckon once you have played with it for an afternoon,it will be a bit in the gun bits drawer.

Pretty much this ^^^.
You can dump 10 rounds in 3 seconds instead of 6. But how often does anyone go an dump 10 rounds in one go?
It's a novelty for most people I'd imagine. But good engineering all the same.

BattleCorp · 29-07-2020 05:49PM

Mellor wrote: »

The Irish definition does not refer to manipulation, it refers to pull. So therefore in Ireland, this is not a semi auto mechanism.

There's no prohibition contained in Irish legislation on the releasing of a bullet when the trigger is released. It only mentions 'pull'. That which is not prohibited is allowed is my thinking on the matter, but then again I am not a judge. I wouldn't like to be the test case in court on that though.

Not being a semi auto means means it's restricted, but not illegal/prohibited as far as I can see.

I'm not sure what you mean by the above statement.

A 10/22 is unrestricted here in Ireland as long as it isn't fully automatic and you don't put a mag in it capable of holding more than 10 rounds and (a very contentious point here on boards but lets argue for a minute) - if you don't put it in a stock that makes it resemble an assault rifle).

If you put a mag bigger than 10 rounds into it, you need to have a restricted licence (which can be gotten if you have a good enough reason for it).

If you put it in a stock that makes it resemble an assault rifle - you may need a restricted licence (which can be gotten if you have a good enough reason for it).

If you convert it to being fully automatic, you don't need a restricted licence, you need a very good solicitor as then it would be completely prohibited.

Anyway, like Grizz, yourself and others have said, the novelty of this trigger would wear off pretty quickly.

Mellor · 30-07-2020 02:06AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's no prohibition contained in Irish legislation on the releasing of a bullet when the trigger is released. It only mentions 'pull'. That which is not prohibited is allowed is my thinking on the matter, but then again I am not a judge. I wouldn't like to be the test case in court on that though.

The actual prohibited category is very small. I said restricted, not prohibited.

I'm not sure what you mean by the above statement.

Which part is unclear.
If the trigger changes it's not semi-auto status, it becomes restricted. as you describe.

A 10/22 is unrestricted here in Ireland as long as it isn't fully automatic and you don't put a mag in it capable of holding more than 10 rounds and (a very contentious point here on boards but lets argue for a minute) - if you don't put it in a stock that makes it resemble an assault rifle).

I know you are simplifying, but the bolded part is incorrect. The unrestricted is actually single, repeat and semi-auto only. Which is not the same as "isn't fully automatic". It's minor, but there is a middle ground between semi and full auto. Eg A rifle that has burst mode, but lacks full auto fire.

A binary trigger modification would turn an unrestricted semi-auto, into an restricted firearm. In a similar fashion to the bigger magazine, or restricted stock modification examples you gave.
As I said, restricted but not illegal/prohibited.

If you convert it to being fully automatic, you don't need a restricted licence, you need a very good solicitor as then it would be completely prohibited.

As an aside, can anyone point me to the section in Irish law that says full auto is prohibited. I'm aware of the relevant EU laws, just curious about the Irish specific section.

Manic Moran · 30-07-2020 02:29AM

In the US, it's per 'action' of the trigger, not 'pull'

It's worth noting that not all triggers are pulled. For example, depressing a button hooked up to an electric motor is 'one action'.

Pulling and releasing a trigger in the US is categorised as two actions. You might still be better off bump firing, though. (I'm not sure it's possible to bump fire a .22, I can't imagine there's enough recoil).

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ever wondrd where the expression "the whole 9 yards " came from?

A standard US ammo belt for a 50 cal machine gun loaded onto a WW2 fighter aircraft or waist gunner on a B17 bomber* was 27 feet or 9yards when fully assembled.
So giving someone the "whole nine yards!" is self explanatory.

*[Depending on aircraft type and load out,so its a generalisation more than an accurate statement of fact]

https://www.npr.org/2013/01/14/169140590/-the-whole-nine-yards-of-what

He thought the phrase originally referred to the capacity of a cement truck in cubic yards. But there are plenty of other theories.

Some people say it dates back to when square-riggers had three masts, each with three yards supporting the sails, so the whole nine yards meant the sails were fully set.

Another popular story holds that it refers to the length of an ammunition belt on World War II fighters — when a pilot had exhausted his ammunition, he said he had shot off the whole nine yards. Or it was the amount of cloth in the queen's bridal train, or in the Shroud of Turin. Or it had to do with a fourth-down play in football. Or it came from a joke about a prodigiously well-endowed Scotsman who gets his kilt caught in a door.
[...]
Word-sleuths traced the modern use of "the whole nine yards" as far back as a 1956 article in a magazine called Kentucky Happy Hunting Ground. Now they've discovered an even earlier version of the phrase, "the whole six yards," which was used in the rural South as early as 1912. That's still how the phrase goes in parts of the South, but it was inflated to "nine yards" when it caught on elsewhere, the same way the early 20th-century "cloud seven" was upgraded to our "cloud nine."

Grizzly 45 · 30-07-2020 12:36PM

As an aside, can anyone point me to the section in Irish law that says full auto is prohibited. I'm aware of the relevant EU laws, just curious about the Irish specific section.

You are 100% correct! There is no mention of them specifically in the 1924 and 27 acts! All that is described as prohibited weapons specifically in those acts,would literally amount to a can of pepper spray these days or a paintball round from a police style paintball gun filled with liquid CS,or a nerve gas shell fired from a artillery piece.:pac:
So does this still mean that we could in theory liscense full auto here?Despite the EU ban?Thinking more the few converted semi auto rifles out there?

Mellor · 30-07-2020 01:24PM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You are 100% correct! There is no mention of them specifically in the 1924 and 27 acts! All that is described as prohibited weapons specifically in those acts,would literally amount to a can of pepper spray these days or a paintball round from a police style paintball gun filled with liquid CS,or a nerve gas shell fired from a artillery piece.:pac:
So does this still mean that we could in theory liscense full auto here?Despite the EU ban?Thinking more the few converted semi auto rifles out there?

The EU ban might be problematic alright. I’m not familiar enough with it’s specifics.

But in theory they would be permitted on a restricted license.
Can you imagine the face on the super

tudderone · 30-07-2020 02:07PM

The Swiss still have full auto stuff, despite the best efforts of Brussels. No doubt they will find a way to crush their freedoms eventually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA7tcOC_2uQ

Mellor · 30-07-2020 02:20PM

tudderone wrote: »

The Swiss still have full auto stuff, despite the best efforts of Brussels. No doubt they will find a way to crush their freedoms eventually.

What best efforts of Brussels is that??

Grizzly 45 · 30-07-2020 03:51PM

Seeing that Switzerland is part of Shenegen,it has to abide by some of the EU legislation. There was going to be trouble with the Swiss militia system and the ,free converted to semi auto rifle the Swiss govt gives you after you demob as a "thank you for your service to the Swiss nation"gift under EU legislation.
Hence the EU specifically put in a clause to allow any established national militas to be exempt from this converted assault rifle ban, but made a balls of the mag ban with them too.So you have Swiss militas with 10 round mags.
But the Swiss only have themselves to blame.They voted 67% in favour of following the EU on this.Had they voted against this our EU un ban directive would have collapsed.

tudderone · 30-07-2020 04:24PM

Mellor wrote: »

What best efforts of Brussels is that??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMRl6hUiwSM

Mellor · 31-07-2020 05:27AM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hence the EU specifically put in a clause to allow any established national militas to be exempt from this converted assault rifle ban, but made a balls of the mag ban with them too.So you have Awiss militas with 10 round mags.

What's the penalty for the Swiss for non-compliance with the EU law?
I'd imagine it's a bit of a grey area for the individual. (Obviously the government has made it's promises)

Grizzly 45 · 31-07-2020 10:12AM

SProably that they couldnt export their Swiss army knives,Rolexes,chococlates, and cuckoo clocks easily into the EU,and recive hordes of mixed allsorts of nationalities coming into the country in return?;):rolleyes:

tudderone · 31-07-2020 10:16AM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

SProably that they couldnt export their Swiss army knives,Rolexes,chococlates, and cuckoo clocks easily into the EU,and recive hordes of mixed allsorts of nationalities coming into the country in return?;):rolleyes:

I think the melons were the biggest party, or one of the biggest in a lot of areas in Switzerland and were pushing for gun control. Its still a country with gun laws that we can only dream about here :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 31-07-2020 07:28PM

Direct democracy system there.It was put o the people to decide thmselves...With of course the usual EU threats of doom and gloom and loss of money,and jobs etc...you know the drill...Same ****e we were told as well when voted against more Europe a few years back.

Grizzly 45 · 14-08-2020 10:27AM

If you are a fan of "Gun Jesus" Ian Mc Collum of forgotten weapons fame.There is a petition on change.org to give him a cameo role in the next John Wick film.

Poor ol John Wick will proably end up being equipped entirely with French weapons and be incredibly well informed on their historical origins in the next film:D:D:D

https://www.change.org/p/87eleven-give-ian-mccollum-a-cameo-in-a-john-wick-movie

tudderone · 14-08-2020 10:35AM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you are a fan of "Gun Jesus" Ian Mc Collum of forgotten weapons fame.There is a petition on change.org to give him a cameo role in the next John Wick film.

Poor ol John Wick will proably end up being equipped entirely with French weapons and be incredibly well informed on their historical origins in the next film:D:D:D

https://www.change.org/p/87eleven-give-ian-mccollum-a-cameo-in-a-john-wick-movie

Never fired, dropped once ! It would be good to see though, Ian is one of the few intelligent gun reviewers on the web, and shows a bit of everything, not AR15's endlessly.

tudderone · 14-08-2020 11:55PM

:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flnpW84Dkso

Grizzly 45 · 15-08-2020 10:10AM

In Russia, smoking cigarettes on the side of the road causes car accidents.:D:D

tudderone · 15-08-2020 12:37PM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In Russia, smoking cigarettes on the side of the road causes car accidents.:D:D

I was watching the programme when Guy Martin went touring around Russia. You can buy in petrol stations, a tumbler of vodka with a rubber cap on it for about 2 euros :eek:.

So rather than stop for petrol, a pee and a coffee, you stop for a glass of firewater !

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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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