Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Yeah it’s just that I didn’t expect them to be such push overs. By surrendering to your man they put themselves in a much worse position and if he wanted to, he could have killed them all. To be fair though it’s not just the German police who are having a bad time with guns, the Gardai aren’t doing too well either especially with the murder of Detective Horkan and with an armed Garda accidentally shooting himself.

Hate to say it,but I think the routine and complaceny issue contributed to the deaths of Garda Mac Cabe,Horkan and Donahoe.:(:(
Nothing ever happens,until it does happen.

Grizzly 45

Intresting article on the .22 round.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2020/7/11/the-22-lr-history-performance/

Grizzly 45

I see the German authorthies are now enlisting the help of the local hunters who have lets of where the Black Forest Rambo is on the loose in Germany. as i thought,this fellah is described as "knowing the terrain as well as his living room."

Grizzly 45

Guess the Mc Closkeys are sorted out! Got an offer for 50 Ar15s

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/07/12/viral-st-louis-couple-received-50-offers-for-new-ar-15s-after-guns-were-seized/?fbclid=IwAR1GsgWX8FnpLxHAJdGeAiLST6X5rkPVSnCwoqruIJOF3kv8Pqh4UbUeVgw

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I see the German authorthies are now enlisting the help of the local hunters who have lets of where the Black Forest Rambo is on the loose in Germany. as i thought,this fellah is described as "knowing the terrain as well as his living room."

Its the border fox all over again

Grizzly 45

Trump oks the sale of US made silencers outside CONUS:)
TBH I prefer the European designs,as I dont have to silence full auto most of the time.

https://thehill.com/regulation/international/507053-trump-admin-lifts-ban-on-sales-of-silencers-to-private-foreign?fbclid=IwAR0wevz0L6ytvISjO00kR39X_MyYDiPK6_gmt2J-2M3rKicGOvGa_IMJMBM

tudderone

The eu decides to end Irelands low tax rates for multinationals, so much for sovereignty and deciding things for ourselves :rolleyes:.

https://www.ft.com/content/4068b83a-2c64-43e9-b82a-0b77c454164b

Ubbquittious

tudderone wrote: »

The eu decides to end Irelands low tax rates for multinationals, so much for sovereignty and deciding things for ourselves :rolleyes:.

https://www.ft.com/content/4068b83a-2c64-43e9-b82a-0b77c454164b

No harum really. Ireland has been notoriously pro-EU because it has been able to endlessly milk the single trick of allowing US megacorps access to the single market while paying feck all tax.


With that trick gone people might start to change their minds about the EU

Cass

Ya gotta love the internet at times.

https://www.facebook.com/dermot.mcenroe/videos/3101551113246914/?__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARAfCC4Kv_0PDSMT8ZJj4BddkE56VJMzvFtTC6_S2XXG-VHW9VilVA8bi367Lb6sp9JxP9mekbQ5JuhO&hc_ref=ARRNXmRnwk_2yOGgKWe674bQx2QjzEL2Rgm1TiBG8FRlE6W7sYf9nZXwPbgbuBRC3_k&fref=nf

tonysopprano

tudderone wrote: »

The eu decides to end Irelands low tax rates for multinationals, so much for sovereignty and deciding things for ourselves :rolleyes:.

https://www.ft.com/content/4068b83a-2c64-43e9-b82a-0b77c454164b

Paschal's first decree as new EU finance minister

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

Ya gotta love the internet at times.

https://www.facebook.com/dermot.mcenroe/videos/3101551113246914/?__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARAfCC4Kv_0PDSMT8ZJj4BddkE56VJMzvFtTC6_S2XXG-VHW9VilVA8bi367Lb6sp9JxP9mekbQ5JuhO&hc_ref=ARRNXmRnwk_2yOGgKWe674bQx2QjzEL2Rgm1TiBG8FRlE6W7sYf9nZXwPbgbuBRC3_k&fref=nf

Cannot see that cass, no fb account.

tudderone

tonysopprano wrote: »

Paschal's first decree as new EU finance minister

He was always a drip. When you see some of the people from here, tinpot county councillors most of them, suddenly running a continent of 450 million people, you know the end cannot be far away.

Mellor

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Yeah it’s just that I didn’t expect them to be such push overs. By surrendering to your man they put themselves in a much worse position and if he wanted to, he could have killed them all.

I'm not sure what you expected to happen differently - assume that he had an extreme upper hand on one of them.
The hero drawing his sidearm taking out the suspect in a half second window that he gestures away from the hostage is stuff from movies.
In real life, with somebody's life in danger, there's literally no good moves.

And you are also right that it puts 4 lifes at risk. That's the trade off. Turn it into a shoot out, and the suspect most likely dies, along with 1 or 2 cops. Comply, and either zero or 4 cops die. It's a probability problem.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

Ya gotta love the internet at times.

https://www.facebook.com/dermot.mcenroe/videos/3101551113246914/?__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARAfCC4Kv_0PDSMT8ZJj4BddkE56VJMzvFtTC6_S2XXG-VHW9VilVA8bi367Lb6sp9JxP9mekbQ5JuhO&hc_ref=ARRNXmRnwk_2yOGgKWe674bQx2QjzEL2Rgm1TiBG8FRlE6W7sYf9nZXwPbgbuBRC3_k&fref=nf

Get a FB Content not available page??
Anything good?:)

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure what you expected to happen differently - assume that he had an extreme upper hand on one of them.
The hero drawing his sidearm taking out the suspect in a half second window that he gestures away from the hostage is stuff from movies.
In real life, with somebody's life in danger, there's literally no good moves.

And you are also right that it puts 4 lifes at risk. That's the trade off. Turn it into a shoot out, and the suspect most likely dies, along with 1 or 2 cops. Comply, and either zero or 4 cops die. It's a probability problem.

The fact that it was first off a four to one encounter,on a call of an armed suspect in cammo clothes armed with a bowand arrow,and a large knife.Should have immediately put these cops on DEFCON 1 going into that situation.

Even with the suspect co operating with one officer.What were and where the other three doing and standing in a potetentially dangerous situation?? Was anyone watching this guys body langauge? His hands?Where he was reaching? For what?It literally sounds like they were swinging their dicks and not paying any attention to what was happening? With a potentially armed suspect? Complacency kills you!

It turns out that this guy has form with the police already,is a suspected kiddy fiddler,and was evicted from his lodgings and living rough for the last month or so and had apprently been reported by his landlord for building a shooting gallery in the attic. iOW this guy already had some form and should have been tingling "spidey senses" already
Bit of situational awareness would have prevented this mess.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It turns out that this guy has form with the police already,is a suspected kiddy fiddler,and was evicted from his lodgings and living rough for the last month or so and had apprently been reported by his landlord for building a shooting gallery in the attic. iOW this guy already had some form and should have been tingling "spidey senses" already
Bit of situational awareness would have prevented this mess.

Overtones of the Dunblane killer there, bells should have been ringing in someones head.

Feisar

I'm sure those four police have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of weirdos between them. They got caught on the hop as can happen anyone. We never hear about all the other situations they resolved peacefully. Microscope is on this one though. I would like to know the protocol in place for approaching someone like that, I would doubt it's weapon in hand, especially when he offered up the bow and spear. However what was the need to the four to approach? Two in, two hanging back, it's easier to react if one is outside the situation in effect plus never show yer full hand!
As regards body language oddballs can be hard/impossible to read. I'm no expert however I spent college working in pubs, you learn to read people.

Grizzly 45

They are not "anyone" they are supposedly highly trained police officers entering a potentially dangerous situation, which would suggest being 100% on your toes and being alert to possible sht going down. If you want to see how quickly this can happen to watch the YT video of the shooting of that black lad who grabbed the cops taser in the US a few weeks ago.For 15 minutes this guy ,while clearly drunk or drugged presented no thret and acted friendly,in the last five mins he goes completely crazy.

Its utterly irrevelant how many peaceful resolutions they have done.
They were going into an armed encounter,and its a totally differnt mindset required from the get go than to a routine traffic stop.But that situation kills more US police officers than anything else. And we are then surprised why US cops are so jittery and itchy on the trigger? Exactly,why wwere three of them not paying attention or positioning themselves to react if this guy made a move on them is a question that will need to be answerd.

Feisar

Not really arguing with you as such, I'm not qualified in any shape or form to. The first answer to the question of how this happened that springs to mind is that they are not highly trained.

tudderone

Feisar wrote: »

Not really arguing with you as such, I'm not qualified in any shape or form to. The first answer to the question of how this happened that springs to mind is that they are not highly trained.

But they are carrying firearms, so maybe they should be.

Feisar

tudderone wrote: »

But they are carrying firearms, so maybe they should be.

No argument there.

Cass

tudderone wrote: »

Cannot see that cass, no fb account.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Get a FB Content not available page??
Anything good?:)

Sorry lads, it's this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb5q9Te9e1c

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

Sorry lads, it's this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb5q9Te9e1c

Thats brilliant

Grizzly 45

We seriously need a laughing emoji here on boards.

Grizzly 45

Feisar wrote: »

Not really arguing with you as such, I'm not qualified in any shape or form to. The first answer to the question of how this happened that springs to mind is that they are not highly trained.

By and large German cops are very well trained,esp in de-escalation and firearms usage,in the fact that they have a bi or Tri-monthly qualification, depending on what Federal state they are in, and have a set system of when they can draw their personal sidearms and how they must issue one verbal warning before opening fire. They all carry Mace and stun guns and batons as less-lethal options as well.As well as a pretty good Jiu-jitsu training

Its all useless of course,if you and your partners are all not paying full on attention as to whats going on,and thinking of the nice beer and chat with the Fraulien in the bar after your shift is ending,or picking their nose and looking at the scenery,or answering a text from the missus about getting home soon as your bratwurst and saurkraut is getting cold.
After all it's just this mad lad,who lives out here in the forest and put his bow and arrow away and is having a chat with Hans,bit quare him but harmless...and OH FUK HE HAS A...GUN and has it stuck in Hans es ear!!! How the FK did that happen???

Feisar

Fair enough, I'm usually slow to pass judgement on people as I'll never be in a situation like that. However when you put it like the above it would appear Deiter and the boys fecked up!

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The fact that it was first off a four to one encounter,on a call of an armed suspect in cammo clothes armed with a bowand arrow,and a large knife.Should have immediately put these cops on DEFCON 1 going into that situation.

I was talking about this situation specifically, More so how easily if would be to disarm multiple people’s if you get the hop them.
I don’t know the details of this particular guy, the report, history etc. All hugely relevant to the level of alertness the cops should have had, as you pointed out.

Obviously in Ireland the average cop doesn’t carry a firearm. Maybe in German firearm carrying cops are highly trained, I’ve no details. But I think it’s a massively error to consider police forces where they carry a side arm by default as highly trained. Elite units sure. But there’s also a large amount they receive only basic training. And not just in firearms. How often do we see cops falling over each other trying to restrain someone. A serious boost in grappling training is needed for average beat cops.

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

By and large German cops are very well trained,esp in de-escalation and firearms usage,in the fact that they have a bi or Tri-monthly qualification, depending on what Federal state they are in, and have a set system of when they can draw their personal sidearms and how they must issue one verbal warning before opening fire. They all carry Mace and stun guns and batons as less-lethal options as well.As well as a pretty good Jiu-jitsu training

That sounds like that are definitely ahead of the curve.
I had read a bit about German jiujitsu before. Developed from Japanese styles in 20th century. Strong association with police.
No short of effective grappling styles out there. Just need to put in the time. Which means continued training after graduation and just lift weight or a bitta GAA.

tudderone

What a spanner.

https://www.facebook.com/100008754378665/posts/2256801741288283/?d=n

tudderone

America has sleepy Joe Biden, We've got sleepy Eamon Ryan. In any job i know, you fall asleep on the company time.............you're sacked.