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Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Fergal Bowers piece on this week.

    It has been a difficult and somewhat confusing week for people, trying to understand where Ireland is going with Covid-19.
    We have hit a roadblock on the way out of the emergency with the pause in the move to Phase 4 for at least three weeks.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0717/1153955-covid-fergal-bowers-analysis/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,073 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    is_that_so wrote: »
    12 patients , TWELVE!

    I knew when I saw the headline who the GP would be...that gob****e is so far up his own arse. Making a name for himself, Covid 19 hysteria is the perfect launch pad. Come out with any old rubbish and it’s guaranteed click bait


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    is_that_so wrote: »

    Very good piece. Think it's fair and balanced.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,857 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    is_that_so wrote: »

    Thats actually a really good article, sums up a lot of the confusion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,073 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    12 patients going for tests and our test positivity rate is stable at 0.3%!
    Doom merchants all around

    Yes I hope Dr drama Queen will be back with the stats on the positivity rate ASAP


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    is_that_so wrote: »

    Good read in fairness to him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Good read in fairness to him
    Whatever about the daily reporting, his weekly ones are good and well thought-out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I like Fergal, but I gave up reading his musings when he started writing about a bird that hit his window, he thought the bird was dead but it wasn't and that is how covid life is in Ireland or some such.

    He was obviously at the sherry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    Boggles wrote: »
    I like Fergal, but I gave up reading his musings when he started writing about a bird that hit his window, he thought the bird was dead but it wasn't and that is how covid life is in Ireland or some such.

    He was obviously at the sherry.

    His "musings"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,654 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Onesea wrote: »
    His "musings"

    Is it Bill Gates?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,073 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    Eddie Wilson on the radio now talking about Ryanair and travel. The rest of Europe is back to normal apparently. We are being left behind.

    Wont be surprised to see Ryanair make massive cuts here especially to HQ roles and not just direct aircraft positions. They don’t tend to hang around and “wait and see” like our government do


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    I see Harris himself refused to be tested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    road_high wrote: »
    Wont be surprised to see Ryanair make massive cuts here especially to HQ roles and not just direct aircraft positions. They don’t tend to hang around and “wait and see” like our government do

    Fúck them.

    No private company gets to dictate public health policy during a once in a generation global pandemic.

    The whole country can't suffer because Michael wants more profits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Thats actually a really good article, sums up a lot of the confusion
    Much and all as we dismissed Simon & Leo's social media stuff, a lot of people saw it and it was a constant reminder that we needed to keep our vigilance up (even if it was only reading people complaining about the messages).

    FF were full of criticisms when they were on the sidelines, and now they are in power the message is confused and lost. Most people don't tune into "official briefings" at particular times, and lots of people never watch RTE. The Minister for Health needs to get out there and start communicating messages where people are listening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Onesea wrote: »
    I see Harris himself refused to be tested.

    Where did you see that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    road_high wrote: »
    Wont be surprised to see Ryanair make massive cuts here especially to HQ roles and not just direct aircraft positions. They don’t tend to hang around and “wait and see” like our government do

    Ryanair have been abundantly clear

    They DO NOT CARE about your health or public health.

    The ONE THING they do care about is money

    Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

    haughty hectoring bullying - a “we know best don’t answer back” attitude

    I’d go so far as to say they’ve been despicable


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,073 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Boggles wrote: »
    Fúck them.

    No private company gets to dictate public health policy during a once in a generation global pandemic.

    The whole country can't suffer because Michael wants more profits.

    Yea who needs private industry and wealth generation...let’s all give up and go on the €350 a week thing. Governments can borrow all the free money that was created out of fresh air, keep only public service “essential” roles...the state can run all food and utilities as non profit charities


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭YellowBucket


    What’s getting to me is the strategies seem chaotic and as per Fergal Bowers piece, a lot of the measures seem inconsistent and even contradictory.

    I know it’s beyond our control but what’s stressing me out is that there’s no end in sight. I’ve been watching a mixture of Irish, UK and French news (I have French free to air tv) and it’s really the same picture from all three - an air of caution about impending second waves and bubbles of outbreaks appearing here and there. Most people are taking it very seriously and a minority aren’t and a lot of people seem very frightened by it.

    France is also much more heavily impacted by loss of American tourism. It’s a huge deal in some places and it’s unlikely to return any time soon due to chaotic American politics being unlikely to deal with it.

    I’m seeing very similar discussion in French and Irish media, often more alike than what I see in the U.K.

    I think we are imagining things are being handled better or differently on the continent. They’re not. It seems very similar and life is still a long way from normal.

    The most stressful part for me is just the lack of clarity and lack of any horizon where this will end. I’m feeling like I’m totally trapped. You can’t realistically go anywhere and the economic prospects both here and in any of the places I would consider going, be it for a holiday or to even just move for a while aren’t looking great.

    It’s hard to explain but it feels like the rest of Europe and the world in general has suddenly become very remote and inaccessible and that really is getting to me and it’s being made a million times worse by the lack of any realistic plans to bring back safe travel.

    In know it may sound a bit nuts but I’ve never, ever felt this trapped and I really feel nervous about how out of sync with the rest of Europe and Schengen the Irish government has gone on travel restrictions and failure to enforce checks on incoming flights from “hot zones”, failure to open travel to the rest of the EU in sync with it.

    It just feels like we’ve reverted to island mentality and being at the whim to our what was our 19th century unpredictable, illogical, jingoistic former ruling class in Britain all over again as we can’t risk the CTA and for some reason we’re imagining we will offend Americans (which we won’t) by imposing any kind of testing or restricting of inbound passengers.

    Then to top all that off, at work at the moment it’s Brexit, Brexit and more Brexit and unpredictable policies from London and just trying to come up with ways of protecting ourselves (without huge cost) yet no idea how trade is going to work as a bunch of morons in London haven’t any notion of coming up with realistic plans and seem intent on crashing out.

    Then Trump throwing tantrums on a daily basis, including ones that deeply impact trade.

    Whole thing is nuts. The Cold War was more relaxing! Even the 2008 economic crash wasn’t this bad.

    I’ve never felt more fed up in my entire life. Really at the stage I don’t even feel like getting out of bed most of the time. Stuck working from home opening a laptop and it’s like a Pandora’s box of nightmarish problems I can’t figure ways around.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    road_high wrote: »
    Yea who needs private industry and wealth generation...let’s all give up and go on the €350 a week thing. Governments can borrow all the free money that was created out of fresh air, keep only public service “essential” roles...the star can run all food and utilities as non profit charities

    Drama queen :rolleyes: :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths



    Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

    They really won't, if people really had long memories FF wouldn't even exist let alone be a party of government.
    When travel opens fully again the same people you are talking about will forget what they said and buy that cheap seat to Malaga.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Thats actually a really good article, sums up a lot of the confusion

    I’ve been saying this since March when Bruce Aylward said that keeping your population informed and working with you is imperative to a society’s success at handling the crisis.

    Maybe Bowers has been reading some things posted recently in this thread:
    Drumpot wrote: »
    I also hope they keep up the communication that was good from FG.
    Drumpot wrote: »

    The problem as I see it is communication. Why are they doing this and not addressing the foreign travel situation? I don’t think you open pubs just because you aren’t changing your stance on travel but you need to explain your decisions if you want the population to follow.

    This isn’t rocket science and it’s one of the few things of the virus we should be able to manage.
    Drumpot wrote: »
    The problem as I see it is poor communication on the decisions being made. It’s left a vacuum and people are deciding what they think is the case.
    Drumpot wrote: »
    It’s poor planning for the publicans and as I said poor communication from the authorities. They are treating us like mushrooms and keeping us in the dark. I’m not suggesting a conspiracy, it’s just poorly managed strategy certainly from a communication perspective


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    road_high wrote: »
    Yea who needs private industry and wealth generation...let’s all give up and go on the €350 a week thing. Governments can borrow all the free money that was created out of fresh air, keep only public service “essential” roles...the star can run all food and utilities as non profit charities

    We do, that's the point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 488 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Ryanair is Ryanair. They always do agressive open, public lobbying and brinksmanship with airports, regions and governments. Their only concern is bums on seats. Nothing has changed.

    My attitude to them hasn’t changed either but it’s never been a company that one tends to have warm and fuzzy feelings about. I didn’t expect anything else from them, so I can’t be disappointed.

    It’s reasonable to not take your public health advice on this from airlines in much the same way as you probably shouldn’t take diet and nutritional advice from fast food outlets and the alcohol industry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,073 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Ryanair have been abundantly clear

    They DO NOT CARE about your health or public health.

    The ONE THING they do care about is money

    Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

    haughty hectoring bullying - a “we know best don’t answer back” attitude

    I’d go so far as to say they’ve been despicable

    Why would you expect them to care very much about your health? My health is my own personal responsibility as is anything else I do. The nannying some people expect from everyone else these days is truly breath taking...if you don’t want to travel don’t get on a plane...if you don’t want to risk Covid then just nail yourself indoors forever.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    What’s getting to me is the strategies seem chaotic and as per Fergal Bowers piece, a lot of the measures seem inconsistent and even contradictory.
    It just feels like we’ve reverted to island mentality and being at the whim to our what was our 19th century unpredictable, illogical, jingoistic former ruling class in Britain all over again as we can’t risk the CTA and for some reason we’re imagining we will offend Americans (which we won’t) by imposing any kind of testing or restricting of inbound passengers.

    This. Exactly this. Because of Brexit, we are more closely tied to the EU now and should be protecting travel within the EU (green list) while enforcing a pre boarding COVID-19 test per flight (Perhaps a day before boarding at the least in the week before boarding) and temp checks before boarding inbound flights.
    The cost of the test to be included in flight price and airline to get test results directly from lab as well as passenger.

    Can’t pass the test, can’t board the flight.

    This should also apply to ferries.

    Don’t STOP flights, but ensure as best we can that anyone travelling into Ireland is healthy.

    The UK are unfortunately, the sick man of Europe at the moment. Spain can attest to that. I’m afraid the same tests may have to apply on NI border as well unless they choose the same inbound testing regime.

    Draconian? Yes. But not forever, and it would allow tourist industries internally open up with more confidence, and help movement of people if restricted in comparison to the norm.

    Every country that had it under control had to start local lockdowns again once schools came back. Honestly I think that will be the biggest test.

    All eyes on September and the ICU numbers then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    road_high wrote: »
    Why would you expect them to care very much about your health? My health is my own personal responsibility as is anything else I do. The nannying some people expect from everyone else these days is truly breath taking...if you don’t want to travel don’t get on a plane...if you don’t want to risk Covid then just nail yourself indoors forever.

    Sorry now but this isn’t just about personal responsibility. That won’t sort this. Don’t you get this? It’s basic

    Coming from my circumstances with vulnerable family members and friends, we want Ryanair to cease operations until this is under control


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths



    I want Ryanair to cease operations until this is under control

    Not going to happen, and the best we can hope for is keep numbers low and learn to live with the virus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Not going to happen, and the best we can hope for is keep numbers low and learn to live with the virus.

    They’ve proven themselves absolutely oblivious to even basic public health concerns. Their aviation license should be postponed until some sense of normality is resumed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    They’ve proven themselves absolutely oblivious to even basic public health concerns. Their aviation license should be postponed until some sense of normality is resumed.

    You should make a compliant to the Commission for Aviation regulation with proof of your claims for their disregard for public health measures. Please let us know how you get on.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112643643&postcount=863

    This is a post I made on February 25th while watching Dr Bruce Aylward give a savagely powerful analysis of how China were managing it. He said some things he knew “WHO” would not approve as he was just off the plane and exhausted. But how much of this seems familiar to our conversation today about communication.


    Listen to the WHO presser and put aside what hes saying about China.

    "Shift in Mindset is required. Shift to a readyness rapid response ready".

    He is uptalking China because they have taken huge efforts to stop the virus , manage and are actually planning on things continuing regardless of this virus.

    I said it before, this reminds me of the language used when my dad was seriously ill in Hospital. Its preparatory language trying to get people everywhere to start preparing to manage this issue on a larger scale.

    In short, when you get past the anger about how much WHO are bigging up China, I hear them say "Get prepared, get your population ready and plan because its most likely coming". "You have to bring your population with you early because things are going to change quickly and you have to have the tools to communicate and adapt as things change". .

    These are quotes. In fairness, China has the most experience of every country, thats just a fact. Regardless of whether we believe everything they say, they do have more experience. But they can also take harsher decisions that a democracy may struggle to implement.

    I do think that he has used this press conference to basically tell the world community to cop the f**k on and start taking this seriously , communicating/preparing populartions and taking preventitive measures.

    Just reading that, I remember how many people I couldn’t discuss this with because most thought it wasn’t coming here.

    We need to adapt better, we need to communicate better. We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. We need a more clear, transparent framework so people can start planning for the next 12-24 months. We can’t keep this daily plan going, it has to change to long term, including communicating and educating our population. Definitive decisions and the reasons why communicated to people.

    Part of the reason people are fed up and/or feeling hopeless is because we appear to be still on a firefighting footing with no obvious plan beyond a few weeks. We need to be also building the infrastructure and the knowledge on how we manage this long term to give peopel hope that regardless of what happens there is a plan and we can as a society (and economical) get through this.


This discussion has been closed.
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