How will schools be able to go back in September?

BonsaiKitten · 07-07-2020 04:42PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think to be fair the general public don’t realise that our numbers are skewed by the addition of SET and that the numbers are not reflective of conditions on the ground. The lowest I taught was 24 in a Deis 1 urban school. Now non Deis I’m generally in the 30/31 pupil range.

Another example of Departmental smoke and mirrors!

I will never forget having 35 infants for one of my teaching placements. The class teacher was very good but even she said that when you've got those kind of numbers, you lose a lot of teaching time to crowd control.

My current school has class sizes in the mid to high twenties.

Tomtruth1973 · 07-07-2020 05:11PM

The department will sell you a lot of blather that it's the teaching not the numbers or resources but nobody will convince me that once you go above 25 - kids are losing out. Plus with inclusion you might have a child with very special needs who only gets resource once or twice a week.

downthemiddle · 07-07-2020 05:42PM

daithi7 wrote: »

I wonder how the continental countries who already have got their schools back have managed it so seamlessly?

Can we not just copy best practice from their experience already??

I mean what's the big deal here.

P.s. Or else let's just cancel next year's leaving cert exams also & totally cave to the public sector teacher unions......

Good man Daithi. Fair play to you for spotting that the unions cancelled the Leaving Cert. If it wasn't for you they would have gotten away with their dastardly plan. Next thing you know there will be some of them deliberately infecting themselves with the auld covid to avoid going into work. You couldn't be up to them!!!

CruelSummer · 07-07-2020 08:38PM

Why am I reading news articles about Principals discussing foreign holidays?
Here are a few issues that I should be reading Principals discussing in the Dáil as a matter of urgency:
1. Increased funding for education sector as a matter of urgency to support smaller class sizes particularly in developing schools and those with class numbers over 30.
2. Sanitary procedures for schools.
3. Immunocompromised teachers and what protections they might be afforded.
4. PPE equipment.
5. Projections of how children will mix and in groups/classes of how many.
6. Staff room procedures.
7. Covid 19 cases in schools - procedures to follow
8. Test and trace - are teachers needed to help re classroom and school environment.
9. Are extra prefabs needed to support smaller class numbers in certain schools - they would need to be built as a matter of urgency.
10. Is there a programme being developed to help children process what happened re the lockdown, being told you could kill Granny or Grandad if you hugged them, ‘no children allowed’ signs at shops and all the other emotional trauma that was lumped on them unfairly during this crisis.

There are so so many issues, and he chose to ramble on about planes and holidays...

khalessi · 07-07-2020 08:49PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Why am I reading news articles about Principals discussing foreign holidays?
Here are a few issues that I should be reading Principals discussing in the Dáil as a matter of urgency:
1. Increased funding for education sector as a matter of urgency to support smaller class sizes particularly in developing schools and those with class numbers over 30.
2. Sanitary procedures for schools.
3. Immunocompromised teachers and what protections they might be afforded.
4. PPE equipment.
5. Projections of how children will mix and in groups/classes of how many.
6. Staff room procedures.
7. Covid 19 cases in schools - procedures to follow
8. Test and trace - are teachers needed to help re classroom and school environment.
9. Are extra prefabs needed to support smaller class numbers in certain schools - they would need to be built as a matter of urgency.
10. Is there a programme being developed to help children process what happened re the lockdown, being told you could kill Granny or Grandad if you hugged them, ‘no children allowed’ signs at shops and all the other emotional trauma that was lumped on them unfairly during this crisis.

There are so so many issues, and he chose to ramble on about planes and holidays...

Ramble really!
He mentioned foreign travel in realtion to covid infection and bringing it back to schools, so trying to keep it out of schools.
He also said schools need to be properly funded to reopen in August and Spetember
MOney was needed for cleaning, supervision and support.
The importance of substitute cover was also mentioned as being very important.
The procurement and distributions of ppe and cleaning equipment along with training was considered important too
He also mentioned needing funding as his school of 1000 students and 100 staff also only has one cleaner which is not enough.

I am sorry you could not read whole article. Here is a second chance
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/families-holidaying-abroad-may-jeopardise-reopening-of-schools-1.4298474

timmy_mallet · 07-07-2020 08:54PM

khalessi wrote: »

Ramble really!
He mentioned foreign travel in realtion to covid infection and bringing it back to schools, so trying to keep it out of schools.
He also said schools need to be properly funded to reopen in August and Spetember
MOney was needed for cleaning, supervision and support.
The importance of substitute cover was also mentioned as being very important.
The procurement and distributions of ppe and cleaning equipment along with training was considered important too
He also mentioned needing funding as his school of 1000 students and 100 staff also only has one cleaner which is not enough.

I am sorry you could not read whole article. Here is a second chance
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/families-holidaying-abroad-may-jeopardise-reopening-of-schools-1.4298474

1 cleaner being not enough for what? You'd need to employ an army of cleaners to be able to mitigate the risk. For the teachers protection, hand washing and coughing etiquette (I know, kids) should be enough.

khalessi · 07-07-2020 08:57PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

1 cleaner being not enough for what? You'd need to employ an army of cleaners to be able to mitigate the risk. For the teachers protection, hand washing and coughing etiquette (I know, kids) should be enough.

for cleaning a school with 1100 people in it, but the school only receives funding for one cleaner.

timmy_mallet · 07-07-2020 08:57PM

khalessi wrote: »

for cleaning a school with 1100 people in it, but the school only receives funding for one cleaner.

Right. But that's not COVID related. It's general funding.

Treppen · 07-07-2020 09:00PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Good man Daithi. Fair play to you for spotting that the unions cancelled the Leaving Cert. If it wasn't for you they would have gotten away with their dastardly plan. Next thing you know there will be some of them deliberately infecting themselves with the auld covid to avoid going into work. You couldn't be up to them!!!

Ya the unions also stopped Ireland's chance to qualify for the 2010 world cup also by handling the ball.

khalessi · 07-07-2020 09:01PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Right. But that's not COVID related. It's general funding.

Yes but the point being made is that extra funding needed for covid cleaners and equipment Did youb read the linked article?

downthemiddle · 07-07-2020 09:09PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Why am I reading news articles about Principals discussing foreign holidays?
Here are a few issues that I should be reading Principals discussing in the Dáil as a matter of urgency:
1. Increased funding for education sector as a matter of urgency to support smaller class sizes particularly in developing schools and those with class numbers over 30.
2. Sanitary procedures for schools.
3. Immunocompromised teachers and what protections they might be afforded.
4. PPE equipment.
5. Projections of how children will mix and in groups/classes of how many.
6. Staff room procedures.
7. Covid 19 cases in schools - procedures to follow
8. Test and trace - are teachers needed to help re classroom and school environment.
9. Are extra prefabs needed to support smaller class numbers in certain schools - they would need to be built as a matter of urgency.
10. Is there a programme being developed to help children process what happened re the lockdown, being told you could kill Granny or Grandad if you hugged them, ‘no children allowed’ signs at shops and all the other emotional trauma that was lumped on them unfairly during this crisis.

There are so so many issues, and he chose to ramble on about planes and holidays...

All ten points are valid but are being discussed by school leaders I have spoken to.
The holiday issue is relevant also because it will impact on the reopening of schools if and when cases spike. Many of the people insisting on going abroad for holidays will be amongst the first to blame teachers if schools have to close again.

CruelSummer · 07-07-2020 09:13PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

All ten points are valid but are being discussed by school leaders I have spoken to.
The holiday issue is relevant also because it will impact on the reopening of schools if and when cases spike. Many of the people insisting on going abroad for holidays will be amongst the first to blame teachers if schools have to close again.

I disagree if they complete the 14 day isolation and went to safe zones. What about families that need to be reunited? Many families in the school community have loved ones abroad. This issue isn’t black and white and was the main focus of the RTE article.

wirelessdude01 · 07-07-2020 09:13PM

Treppen wrote: »

Ya the unions also stopped Ireland's chance to qualify for the 2010 world cup also by handling the ball.

Well it really was the fault of The Boys School in Ballyboy as they didn't give Thierry the maternity leave. Instead they gave it to the local dog walkers, aunts cat walkers son.

LilyShame · 07-07-2020 09:14PM

Id imagine plenty of teachers will be on that plane to the sun with two weeks left before they return to class. I don't blame them. Department of Ed have sat on their bums and done nothing to lead the reopening. That rte news story is utter nonsense, using teaching community to guilt trip normal consumers into losing thousands by not flying, when in truth, the department of ed have an awful awful lot to answer for. All talk, no action..

downthemiddle wrote: »

All ten points are valid but are being discussed by school leaders I have spoken to.
The holiday issue is relevant also because it will impact on the reopening of schools if and when cases spike. Many of the people insisting on going abroad for holidays will be amongst the first to blame teachers if schools have to close again.

CruelSummer · 07-07-2020 09:15PM

khalessi wrote: »

Ramble really!
He mentioned foreign travel in realtion to covid infection and bringing it back to schools, so trying to keep it out of schools.
He also said schools need to be properly funded to reopen in August and Spetember
MOney was needed for cleaning, supervision and support.
The importance of substitute cover was also mentioned as being very important.
The procurement and distributions of ppe and cleaning equipment along with training was considered important too
He also mentioned needing funding as his school of 1000 students and 100 staff also only has one cleaner which is not enough.

I am sorry you could not read whole article. Here is a second chance
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/families-holidaying-abroad-may-jeopardise-reopening-of-schools-1.4298474

I read the RTÉ article and news report which focused solely on travel. They should have given a more comprehensive report on what was discussed. The Irish time’s is a subscription service.

timmy_mallet · 07-07-2020 09:20PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yes but the point being made is that extra funding needed for covid cleaners and equipment Did youb read the linked article?

I understand that. But I am suggesting the point is moot. You would need someone standing by each door handle and cleaning it as touched if you wanted it to be 'covid clean...'.

Teachers are concerned for their protection, washing their own hands and wearing a mask should be enough. Even more so, if kids are washing hands and coughing correctly and generally practicing greater hygiene.

wirelessdude01 · 07-07-2020 09:26PM

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I understand that. But I am suggesting the point is moot. You would need someone standing by each door handle and cleaning it as touched if you wanted it to be 'covid clean...'.

Teachers are concerned for their protection, washing their own hands and wearing a mask should be enough. Even more so, if kids are washing hands and coughing correctly and generally practicing greater hygiene.

I know of three schools where the staff have already been told that unless it is mentioned in a circular that no one on staff will be allowed to wear a mask or visor. Have been told that if they have a medical need for one that they should go out on sick leave. This is the attitude from a small minority.

iamwhoiam · 07-07-2020 09:37PM

I see the Government talking about extending Mat leave for anyone whos baby was born during lockdown . It could cost €78 million ? I genuinely do not understand the rational behind that while our schools are screaming out for supports and cash input
Do the mothers who gave birth during lockdown really need an extra 12 weeks off in a country whos children need funds to get schools open
They need to get their priorities right in my opinion

downthemiddle · 07-07-2020 09:40PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I disagree if they complete the 14 day isolation and went to safe zones. What about families that need to be reunited? Many families in the school community have loved ones abroad. This issue isn’t black and white and was the main focus of the RTE article.

I think the issue will be those looking for a holiday at the end of August or the beginning of September and then sending the children straight back to school.
The issue with loved ones abroad will be difficult to resolve. In many cases you are looking at long haul flights where you cannot pop over for the weekend. You would have to sympathise with families in that situation.

downthemiddle · 07-07-2020 09:43PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I know of three schools where the staff have already been told that unless it is mentioned in a circular that no one on staff will be allowed to wear a mask or visor. Have been told that if they have a medical need for one that they should go out on sick leave. This is the attitude from a small minority.

That's scandalous.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 07-07-2020 09:57PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I see the Government talking about extending Mat leave for anyone whos baby was born during lockdown . It could cost €78 million ? I genuinely do not understand the rational behind that while our schools are screaming out for supports and cash input
Do the mothers who gave birth during lockdown really need an extra 12 weeks off in a country whos children need funds to get schools open
They need to get their priorities right in my opinion

Completely agree, they don't need extra maternity leave, nor should they get it just for giving birth during lockdown.

Our maternity leave is already quite generous and has progressively improved over time.

Why is this even being raised by government as a topic, it impacts a small amount of people compared to all the kids are left without a paddle and no money forthcoming for them.

Government needs to take its head out of its backside and promptly too, they are eternally out of touch it seems no matter who's steering the ship.

combat14 · 07-07-2020 10:20PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I see the Government talking about extending Mat leave for anyone whos baby was born during lockdown . It could cost €78 million ? I genuinely do not understand the rational behind that while our schools are screaming out for supports and cash input
Do the mothers who gave birth during lockdown really need an extra 12 weeks off in a country whos children need funds to get schools open
They need to get their priorities right in my opinion

and on the maternity leave thread they want to extend this to all women whose maternity leave has occurred during the covid lockdown ... very hard to see why ....???

combat14 · 07-07-2020 10:22PM

sounds like masks will be needed in doors in schools if this is the case:

239 experts with one big claim: Coronavirus is airborne
The WHO is resisting evidence that particles floating indoors are infectious, scientists say

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/239-experts-with-one-big-claim-coronavirus-is-airborne-1.4298154?mode=amp

iamwhoiam · 07-07-2020 10:34PM

combat14 wrote: »

and on the maternity leave thread they want to extend this to all women whose maternity leave has occurred during the covid lockdown ... very hard to see why ....???

I don’t understand it at all ? Why ? What makes them think they need 12 extra weeks ? I am lost for words . It makes no sense to me . So many missed out , weddings cancelled , communions cancelled , people couldn’t attend funerals , children missed out on education , mothers dealing with children with special needs , residents in care home had no visitors . I have no idea why new mothers get picked out of that list for special treatment

Treppen · 07-07-2020 10:59PM

LilyShame wrote: »

Id imagine plenty of teachers will be on that plane to the sun with two weeks left before they return to class. I don't blame them. Department of Ed have sat on their bums and done nothing to lead the reopening. That rte news story is utter nonsense, using teaching community to guilt trip normal consumers into losing thousands by not flying, when in truth, the department of ed have an awful awful lot to answer for. All talk, no action..

I was going to ask for a source for that claim, but thankfully, you can't provide a link to your imagination just yet.

daithi7 · 07-07-2020 11:20PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Good man Daithi. Fair play to you for spotting that the unions cancelled the Leaving Cert. If it wasn't for you they would have gotten away with their dastardly plan. Next thing you know there will be some of them deliberately infecting themselves with the auld covid to avoid going into work. You couldn't be up to them!!!

Wtf else was it cancelled?

And kindly don't even try to assert it was for public health reasons, as continental schools were already back 3 months before the rescheduled leaving cert was due to be held!

Or because the students didn't want it, like how would anyone know?!

Nope, the teachers (unions) didn't want it, so this year's leaving certs will be graded on a highly subic l dubious, makey uppy, 11th hour hashed together bs system of retrospective assessment.....

Public sector union fingerprints all over it....

wirelessdude01 · 07-07-2020 11:22PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Wtf else was it cancelled?

And kindly don't even try to assert it was for public health reasons, as continental schools were already back 3 months before the rescheduled leaving cert was due to be held!

Or because the students didn't want it, like how would anyone know?!

Nope, the teachers (unions) didn't want it, so this year's leaving certs will be graded on a highly subic l dubious, makey uppy, 11th hour hashed together bs system of retrospective assessment.....

Public sector union fingerprints all over it....

Just had a laugh out loud moment at the ridiculousness of this comment.

downthemiddle · 07-07-2020 11:33PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Wtf else was it cancelled?

And kindly don't even try to assert it was for public health reasons, as continental schools were already back 3 months before the rescheduled leaving cert was due to be held!

Or because the students didn't want it, like how would anyone know?!

Nope, the teachers (unions) didn't want it, so this year's leaving certs will be graded on a highly subic l dubious, makey uppy, 11th hour hashed together bs system of retrospective assessment.....

Public sector union fingerprints all over it....

I'm going to let you into a secret Daithi but please don't tell anyone else. The teacher unions own the 5G masts. They introduced Covid to get even more time off and to manipulate a payrise.
You should contact Danny Healy Rae and ask him to raise the issue in the Dáil. If that fails ask Gemma O'Doherty to investigate the matter. She will get to the bottom of it for you.

History Queen · 07-07-2020 11:36PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Wtf else was it cancelled?

And kindly don't even try to assert it was for public health reasons, as continental schools were already back 3 months before the rescheduled leaving cert was due to be held!

Or because the students didn't want it, like how would anyone know?!

Nope, the teachers (unions) didn't want it, so this year's leaving certs will be graded on a highly subic l dubious, makey uppy, 11th hour hashed together bs system of retrospective assessment.....

Public sector union fingerprints all over it....

Do you ever get sick of trolling or is posting nonsense more than a pastime for you?

the corpo · 08-07-2020 12:14AM

Sam McConkey on with Ivan Yates this evening, again not dismissing that the likes of Denmark have reopened and we can follow their example. This is fine, and great for them, but I don't understand how it's possible to compare like with like.

The average Danish class size is 19 pupils, and I imagine they don't have their kids shoved into not fit for purpose buildings. Is it not the case that we are in a radically more difficult position to reopen than the rest of Europe because our schools and capacity are dramatically different?

I just get tired of the wasted air time citing how the rest of Europe is doing it, just get on with it, when they should be asking how have we allowed the Irish school system to fall so far behind. Seems to me like screaming at the teachers that they need to be put on Covid payments to wise them up rather than getting irate at the Department to fix the root problems is such wasted energy.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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