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Employer insisting on paying 18 y/o under min. wage

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    #182
    PuddingBreath
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭PuddingBreath


    callmehal wrote: »
    We should be telling these scrupulous companies to **** off. They want someone to work for them, pay a fair wage. How about we stand up for our young people for once and put them above some multi million euro company?
    unfortunately, people can be right sh1ts at times. sticking up for and helping out young people starting out in this world seems too much of a stretch for some.

    we're in a rut in this world, a rush to the bottom. the last government was all about fiscal responsibility and the art of doing just enough to keep financial markets happy. no big ideas, no big improvements to our lives. no morals before "we'll get a report on that to make our decision for us".
    for example,

    it was "fix the banks" not rip the banks apart and change their way of working forever so to ensure consumers are protected. how many times have banks to go belly up before alternatives are looked at ?
    the big businesses are put first, people are just inputs to our "leaders".


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    #183
    gary550
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    s1ippy wrote: »
    It's quite mad that so many people here hate blacks travellers, women, transsexuals, children and think that certain people's time is worth a measly €8ph and they should suck it up.

    What hilariously sad lives!

    If the OP has the option of going on social welfare, it seems like a good idea so that they can evaluate their plans for the future. Upskilling and training will be a better plan than degrading yourself with menial work in which your time will clearly be worth a pittance.

    Good for you for having enough self-worth to question it, maturity beyond your years.

    Christ


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    #184
    Get Real
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Get Real


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Upskilling and training will be a better plan than degrading yourself with menial work in which your time will clearly be worth a pittance.

    Ridiculous point. Nothing degrading about working. No matter the job. It in itself is upskilling and training. Both personally and professionally.

    Education or work are both options. Voluntarily going on the dole is not. It is supposed to be a temporary stop gap for those in genuine need with absolutely zero job offers. No need to go straight on it, especially at 18.

    Op had two job offers. But viewed them as below him. However he doesn't view the dole as below him?

    Plenty of experience and qualifications to be gained within these "menial" jobs. There's also study options, plus apprenticeships- both the traditional trade types, and also office based roles/degrees paid by a company, with a salary, for school leavers.

    Taking it back to the entry level retail roles, even in the worst companies, experience can be gained to swing into another area, one that provides courses, better pay or opportunity for progression.

    Anyone at 18, with little life experience, is in a dangerous position if they already think something is below them. You can afford to think like this if you have family in a company etc, fair enough, you'll be sorted. But work or education are below nobody. No matter the type.


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    #185
    ziedth
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 9,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭ziedth


    gmisk wrote: »
    Errr dealz are owned by Steinhoff.....their revenue is over 13 billion and they employ 130k plus people...they are not some tiny family owned cornershop...so comparison to LIDL isn't totally outrageous...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinhoff_International

    From what feels like a previous life I know a little something about this so I will try and make the breakdown simple without meaning to sound condescending if I do;

    Steinhoff are a massive company however Dealz are simply a subsidiary... as soon as they start loosing (enough) money they would be dropped and sold off quicker than you can imagine. For all the world they are their own company but benefit from the Steinhoff Network. It doesn not increase their buying power.

    Aldi have over 10,000 stores world wide which they own so I don't need to tell you the buying power for Aldi is 10 times more of Poundland (Dealz).

    Also (And this is the important bit) the mark up on Own brand Aldi products is considerably more then the FMCG products in dealz (Which make up 70% of their sales). If you were to take a guess how much money do you think Poundland make selling one Toblerone for £1/€1.50?........ It' less then you think (Something like 0.05c or 2/3% margin) while Aldi's Own Brand Toblerone I would hazzard a guess is probably closer to 30%.

    This alone is enough to explain the difference in wages but on top of that they are very very different jobs. I believe the time they expect you to clear a pallet when stacking shelves in Aldi is less than half an hour for 8 hours a day. Dealz are happy up to three times that per pallet (There are other factors why Aldi are quicker but I'm already rambling).

    TLDR; Discount Retail has no choice but to scarpe the bottom of the barrell when it comes to cost savings which is why they lean towards students who are somewhat happy getting the U20 wage.

    Should be said, I never hired anyone under 20 unless I was doing someone a favour or for tills..... I Just found for the role and industry I found the work eithic is generally better in older people


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    #186
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    Hi all,

    Creating this thread last night was a "heat of the moment" thing, and feel that everybody has made their point on here.

    I have also decided to take the job at dealz as it is something at the end of the day.

    I have requested that the mod delete this thread

    Thanks everyone for the advice


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    #187
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Creating this thread last night was a "heat of the moment" thing, and feel that everybody has made their point on here.

    I have also decided to take the job at dealz as it is something at the end of the day.

    I have requested that the mod delete this thread

    Thanks everyone for the advice

    Good Luck. Onwards and upwards.


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    #188
    Wuff Wuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Wuff Wuff


    good luck with the job, its another notch for your cv anyways,

    keep working hard and hopefully you can find something better longer term


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    #189
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Creating this thread last night was a "heat of the moment" thing, and feel that everybody has made their point on here.

    I have also decided to take the job at dealz as it is something at the end of the day.

    I have requested that the mod delete this thread

    Thanks everyone for the advice

    Good luck with it.

    Hopefully if it’s around the 20 hour mark you can do some courses in your spare time to find more lucrative employment in the future.

    You won’t be in minimum wage jobs forever!


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    #190
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    The lower minimum wage for 18 year old could also be seen as an incentive to employers to hire 18yr old who lack work/life experience.
    Based on a lot of responses on this thread I can't see any reason to hire an entitled 18 yr old other than the saving of €2 per hour (which by all accounts comes with at least 20% reduction in usefulness).


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    #191
    GalwayGrrrrrl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭GalwayGrrrrrl


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Creating this thread last night was a "heat of the moment" thing, and feel that everybody has made their point on here.

    I have also decided to take the job at dealz as it is something at the end of the day.

    I have requested that the mod delete this thread

    Thanks everyone for the advice

    Great news that you are taking the job. It will give you life skills
    That are transferable to any future career. Work hard, ask questions, learn as much as you can and keep looking for college courses so you are not on min wage forever.


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    #192
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,986 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Life experience, sure, it can and should be positive though, positive life experience, like paying people a fair wage, like treating them humanely, like dealing with personnel issues in a professional, reasonable and competent and LEGAL manner.

    You have too many people now treating others like shït in workplaces especially when they are green and new and using the whole.. “ well, they learn the hard way here it will stand to them !” How about treating them with fairness and respect, respecting the contract and the terms of their employment ? Educate them that way !


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    #193
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    s1ippy wrote: »
    It's quite mad that so many people here hate blacks travellers, women, transsexuals, children and think that certain people's time is worth a measly €8ph and they should suck it up.

    What hilariously sad lives! .

    It really is astonishing in this day and age that someone could be so clueless about what is illegal discrimination, and what is legally paying a wage above minimum entitlement. You would think that everyone would recognise the difference between the two. It is sad indeed.


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    #194
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    I didn't say anything about illegal discrimination, you said that.


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    #195
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Strumms wrote: »
    Life experience, sure, it can and should be positive though, positive life experience, like paying people a fair wage, like treating them humanely, like dealing with personnel issues in a professional, reasonable and competent and LEGAL manner.

    You have too many people now treating others like shït in workplaces especially when they are green and new and using the whole.. “ well, they learn the hard way here it will stand to them !” How about treating them with fairness and respect, respecting the contract and the terms of their employment ? Educate them that way !

    Better to stay at home and do nothing, earn nothing and learn nothiing


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    #196
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    A few people somehow don't think that 8 quid an hour is a fair wage. What is a fair wage given the variables and why would you make this determination?
    The majority of the planet earn far less....


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    #197
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,313 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    kippy wrote: »
    A few people somehow don't think that 8 quid an hour is a fair wage. What is a fair wage given the variables and why would you make this determination?
    The majority of the planet earn far less....

    Comparing across the planet is fruitless, in Ireland 8 quid an hour is not much at all, even for an 18 year old it’s not much however it won’t be for long and things can only really go one way for the OP from here.


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    #198
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭History Queen


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Creating this thread last night was a "heat of the moment" thing, and feel that everybody has made their point on here.

    I have also decided to take the job at dealz as it is something at the end of the day.

    I have requested that the mod delete this thread

    Thanks everyone for the advice

    Best of luck and try to see this job as a stepping stone towards bigger and better, progression is the key.


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    #199
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,986 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Better to stay at home and do nothing, earn nothing and learn nothiing

    Better get a job, where you are paid fairly, for a fair days work. This idea that it’s ok to have a young person in a job and pay them poorly, because they are inexperienced is horse ****. They will be enthusiastic, keen to learn have the same responsibility and expectation of them as the experienced staff...
    They will be still bound to all the rules and regulations as set out in the company manual.

    -Turn up on time

    -Clock in

    -Be attired cleanly and neatly in uniform

    -Wear all PPE

    -attend team briefing

    -carry out all tasks as assigned and report back when completed

    -take scheduled rest break not over

    Etc etc...

    Same as it is for a person there 4 weeks or 4 years... All rules should apply the same, minimum wage, h&s etc... experienced staff ‘can’ be paid more but nobody should be paid less than legal minimum.


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    #200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    Better get a job, where you are paid fairly, for a fair days work. This idea that it’s ok to have a young person in a job and pay them poorly, because they are inexperienced is horse ****. They will be enthusiastic, keen to learn have the same responsibility and expectation of them as the experienced staff...
    They will be still bound to all the rules and regulations as set out in the company manual.

    -Turn up on time

    -Clock in

    -Be attired cleanly and neatly in uniform

    -Wear all PPE

    -attend team briefing

    -carry out all tasks as assigned and report back when completed

    -take scheduled rest break not over

    Etc etc...

    Same as it is for a person there 4 weeks or 4 years... All rules should apply the same, minimum wage, h&s etc... experienced staff ‘can’ be paid more but nobody should be paid less than legal minimum.

    Nobody is. The OP wasn’t au fait will the legislation. Minimum wage suits some, depending on their circumstances.


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    #201
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    salmocab wrote: »
    Comparing across the planet is fruitless, in Ireland 8 quid an hour is not much at all, even for an 18 year old it’s not much however it won’t be for long and things can only really go one way for the OP from here.

    €8 an hour is €320 a week, pretty much tax free on a standard 40 hour week.

    For an 18 year old with absolutely no relevant qualifications or experience I am not sure what you are expecting.


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    #202
    shafty100
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭shafty100


    i think he was only getting 10 or 12 hours ,part time


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    #203
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    shafty100 wrote: »
    i think he was only getting 10 or 12 hours ,part time
    Still doesn't make 8 euro an hour a bad wage. Needs another part time job or a job with better hours.
    It's one of those things. You have no control over the wages being offered of the hours being offered. You either accept it and get on with it or review what you need to do and how you need to do it to improve your career options and move on with your life.


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    #204
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    starrygleam11 wrote: »
    Aldi and Lidl are doing it so could they

    I know Aldi and Lidl pay good wages but I believe the working conditions are poor. They expect a lot more from their employees than most other retailers due to the fact that all their stores are understaffed. Their attitude seems to be cheaper to pay someone a higher wage than hire two people on a lower wage.


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    #205
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,313 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    kippy wrote: »
    €8 an hour is €320 a week, pretty much tax free on a standard 40 hour week.

    For an 18 year old with absolutely no relevant qualifications or experience I am not sure what you are expecting.

    I’m not expecting anything I merely pointed out 8 an hour is not much money. I didn’t even suggest he shouldn’t take the job. I don’t have a particular problem with the rate but we shouldn’t pretend that it’s anything other than very little money for someone’s time.


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    #206
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    salmocab wrote: »
    I’m not expecting anything I merely pointed out 8 an hour is not much money. I didn’t even suggest he shouldn’t take the job. I don’t have a particular problem with the rate but we shouldn’t pretend that it’s anything other than very little money for someone’s time.

    Relative to realistic alternatives, it's an acceptable wage.
    It would depend on your specific circumstances and habits as to how easily you could live on it however.


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    #207
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭vandriver


    GT89 wrote: »
    I know Aldi and Lidl pay good wages but I believe the working conditions are poor. They expect a lot more from their employees than most other retailers due to the fact that all their stores are understaffed. Their attitude seems to be cheaper to pay someone a higher wage than hire two people on a lower wage.

    The staff in my local Aldi have been there for years.It can't be that poor a place to work for.


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    #208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kippy wrote: »
    A few people somehow don't think that 8 quid an hour is a fair wage. What is a fair wage given the variables and why would you make this determination?
    The majority of the planet earn far less....

    Irish mortgages are higher than most of the planet. Can I pay what the average mortgage in Peru is? The average electricity bill in Cuba?


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    #209
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GT89 wrote: »
    I know Aldi and Lidl pay good wages but I believe the working conditions are poor. They expect a lot more from their employees than most other retailers due to the fact that all their stores are understaffed. Their attitude seems to be cheaper to pay someone a higher wage than hire two people on a lower wage.

    Plenty of people running from the start of their shift to the end. I would rather be busy and paid more than bored and poor.


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    #210
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Irish mortgages are higher than most of the planet. Can I pay what the average mortgage in Peru is? The average electricity bill in Cuba?

    I don't get your point to be honest.
    The guy is 18 and moaning about life instead of doing something about it - taking some control over his life.
    Realising that the majority of the planet live in far worse circumstances than you is a big part of life and you coping capabilities.


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    #211
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Irish mortgages are higher than most of the planet. Can I pay what the average mortgage in Peru is? The average electricity bill in Cuba?

    What is minimum wage in Peru and Cuba?


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