Employer insisting on paying 18 y/o under min. wage

mark2912

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pc7

Is it an error on their behalf, have you contacted them to see if they realize that you should be on over 18 rate?

L1011

They may still believe the training rate still exists - it doesn't.

mark2912

I was told today at the interview that the rate of pay was €8.39 an hour, I questioned them, explaining that the min wage is €10.10 for an 18 y/o but was told that they can pay me that as they're a UK company. They also said that my rate of pay will go up to €10.41 when I turn 19. This seems wrong to me

December2012

Hi Mark2912,

I think you should go back to the shop and advise them that you are 18 and see if they made a mistake. Or find out why they are offering you a lower wage.

Generally, have you a plan for yourself to give yourself more employment options as you get older? Are you going to college, etc., would you consider doing a trade? Working in retail is very important (as the last few months have shown, in case people didn't already know), but it might help you to have a plan so you can build up your confidence, no matter what you do?

Rulmeq

L1011 wrote: »

They may still believe the training rate still exists - it doesn't.

This isn't the training rate, this is due to "inexperience".


Minimum wage only has to be paid to over 20s



https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html#l1f4da


Rates on or after 1 February 2020
Minimum hourly rate of pay, € % of minimum wage
National minimum wage (Aged 20 and over) 10.10 100
Aged under 18 7.07 70
Aged 18 8.08 80
Aged 19 9.09 90
Since 4 March 2019 trainee rates are abolished.

L1011

Rulmeq wrote: »

This isn't the training rate, this is due to inexperience.


Minimum wage only has to be paid to over 20s



https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html#l1f4da


Rates on or after 1 February 2020
Minimum hourly rate of pay, € % of minimum wage National minimum wage (Aged 20 and over) 10.10 100 Aged under 18 7.07 70 Aged 18 8.08 80 Aged 19 9.09 90 Since 4 March 2019 trainee rates are abolished.

I thought the age bands were 16/17/18 - my mistake. Been a loooong time since I was at either end of either age scale.

challengemaster

mark2912 wrote: »

I have just been offered a job with Dealz, but there is a problem. The rate of pay is €8.39/hour. Is this allowed? Considering I am 18 thus 100% entitled to the min wage of €10.10.

Ah, but you're not. 100% of min wage is if you're over 20. At 18 you're only entitled to 80%, which is €8.08. So Dealz are actually overpaying slightly what they're legally obliged to.

antimatterx

Take the job.

It's good for you mind and some money and getting out of the house, is better than staying at home and getting the dole.

Get Real

Yup, as challengemaster and rulemeq have said, 8.08 per hour minimum for 18 year olds.

Although I know of very few employers who take advantage of the under 20 rule. Seems pretty scabby on their part. Generally in retail/jobs around that level of pay, everyone will be paid the "real" minimum wage, whether they're 18 or 20.

ziedth

Hi OP,

As above the Pay scales I'm afraid are correct. Also, In Dealz You won't be doing anywhere near 39 hours a week. I would say at best average 20 that might go up to 30 at busy times but we certainly go down to 12 in the quiet times.

mark2912

challengemaster wrote: »

Ah, but you're not. 100% of min wage is if you're over 20. At 18 you're only entitled to 80%, which is €8.08. So Dealz are actually overpaying slightly what they're legally obliged to.

So it appears that while they aren't breaking the law, but it still isn't good enough.

€8.39/hour, min 12 hours/ week contract, paid monthly - do the maths:
8.39x12= 100.68
100.68*4= €402.72 per month

How can anybody live on that a month? Most people earn that in a week, never mind a month

challengemaster

Well then don't take the job if you're not happy with the pay?

Welcome to being an adult

ziedth

mark2912 wrote: »

So it appears that while they aren't breaking the law, but it still isn't good enough.

€8.39/hour, min 12 hours/ week contract, paid monthly - do the maths:
8.39x12= 100.68
100.68*4= €402.72 per month

How can anybody live on that a month? Most people earn that in a week, never mind a month

All I will say is that once it doesn't cost you much to commute to work it is a much better option than the dole. If nothing else you gain a bit of experience and with the amount of people out of work off the back of COVID-19 an 18 year old is going to need all the experience you can

shocksy

mark2912 wrote: »

but was told that they can pay me that as they're a UK.

They're talking through their hole with that statement. It doesn't matter what country their company is from. If they operate in Ireland they have to operate under Irish laws.

However, the hourly rate being offered is above the minimum rate for someone of your age. So, there's nothing you can do about that unless you can find an employer who will pay you at the higher end of the minimum wage pay scale.

mark2912

ziedth wrote: »

All I will say is that once it doesn't cost you much to commute to work it is a much better option than the dole. If nothing else you gain a bit of experience and with the amount of people out of work off the back of COVID-19 an 18 year old is going to need all the experience you can

I couldn't care less about the experience at the end of the day, I know nobody else who gets paid that low. €8.39 is a joke and should be illegal, its a disgrace, I'll get laughed at by friends/peers, all of whom get paid at least €10.10 in their jobs.

The one job I liked was only temporary. The fact that I expressed interest in being made permanent after xmas to them and they went ahead and kept 2 other people instead of me is what got to me the most. Loosing that job was like loosing a limb and changed who I am today. I didn't care about anything else, just the job, I wanted to be dead, I was grieving. I obviously wasn't good enough for them

It certainly is low pay, but if you can find a higher paid job, you should take it. Have you any qualifications/training which would make you employable in a better paid job/profession?

mark2912

Dav010 wrote: »

It certainly is low pay, but if you can find a higher paid job, you should take it. Have you any qualifications/training which would make you employable in a better paid job/profession?

I have applied to other jobs with other chain companies such as Tesco, SuperValu etc. who definitely do pay above €10.10 regardless of age, however I either don't hear back or receive an email to say that I wasn't shortlisted.

I was in college up until closure in March studying a Level 5 PLC in Business. I received my results last week and got Distinctions in all 9 modules, but yet I still cannot get a job

jrosen

You could take the job. Surely working for this amount is better than not working at all? Experience is important, even if you dont think it is.

In the background you could be looking for another job, or planning your return to college.

Arrival

mark2912 wrote: »

I have applied to other jobs with other chain companies such as Tesco, SuperValu etc. who definitely do pay above €10.10 regardless of age, however I either don't hear back or receive an email to say that I wasn't shortlisted.

I was in college up until closure in March studying a Level 5 PLC in Business. I received my results last week and got Distinctions in all 9 modules, but yet I still cannot get a job

Our unemployment rate went from almost full employment at ~4% to almost 30% in a matter of weeks as we are in a pandemic, I think it's a bit unreasonable to not be understanding that it's difficult to get a job at the moment. Having a level 5 PLC doesn't exactly automatically make you the most employable person considering many full level 8 University graduates also end up going for such minimum wage jobs while they search for opportunities to enter their chosen career field. All you can do is go with what's available at the moment and continue the search to find better, it really is better to get whatever experience you possibly can. Have a look at other options besides retail as well. You could see if there's any work going on construction sites or if any tradies need someone to help out over the Summer as well

ziedth

mark2912 wrote: »

I have applied to other jobs with other chain companies such as Tesco, SuperValu etc. who definitely do pay above €10.10 regardless of age, however I either don't hear back or receive an email to say that I wasn't shortlisted.

mark2912 wrote: »

I couldn't care less about the experience at the end of the day

I don't want to be too hard on you here OP but I'm sure you can draw the line between these?

Anyway, As said above. I wouldn't take not being kept on in Dunnes personally. Managers have a wage budget so can only take on x amount of people after Christmas (If any at all) and a big store like Dunnes you don't know what "pull" the couple have who were kept on or they might have just been that little bit better then you at what they needed... Doesn't mean they didn't value you

KiKi III

mark2912 wrote: »

I couldn't care less about the experience at the end of the day, I know nobody else who gets paid that low. €8.39 is a joke and should be illegal, its a disgrace, I'll get laughed at by friends/peers, all of whom get paid at least €10.10 in their jobs.

The one job I liked was only temporary. The fact that I expressed interest in being made permanent after xmas to them and they went ahead and kept 2 other people instead of me is what got to me the most. Loosing that job was like loosing a limb and changed who I am today. I didn't care about anything else, just the job, I wanted to be dead, I was grieving. I obviously wasn't good enough for them

With empathy OP, you’re talking about a job in Dunnes like it was the love of your life. Why was it so important to you?

I know they began hiring again due to increased demand during Covid, would you try to get back in there?

Alrigghtythen

mark2912 wrote: »

I couldn't care less about the experience at the end of the day, I know nobody else who gets paid that low. €8.39 is a joke and should be illegal, its a disgrace, I'll get laughed at by friends/peers, all of whom get paid at least €10.10 in their jobs.

The one job I liked was only temporary. The fact that I expressed interest in being made permanent after xmas to them and they went ahead and kept 2 other people instead of me is what got to me the most. Loosing that job was like loosing a limb and changed who I am today. I didn't care about anything else, just the job, I wanted to be dead, I was grieving. I obviously wasn't good enough for them

Did you reapply to dunnes recently?

The job you took at Christmas was temporary due to seasonal demand. You were returning to college. Dont take it so personal.

challengemaster

sugarman wrote: »

I doubt it was in anyway personal or related to your work performance.

Actually, I'd say that's very likely the prominent reason he wasn't kept on.

The OP has a history of posting here blaming multiple different jobs for a variety of issues that all in the end seem to be his own problem with not having any work ethic at all. He wanted to laze around all day and complained about being 'bullied' when told to actually do some work.

He's also shown a side of sexism, and considering his responses on and over reaction here when told that yet again the employer isn't the one in the wrong - this person has a huge range of attitude problems and a sense of entitlement that no employer would want to hire them.

Wuff Wuff

challengemaster wrote: »

Actually, I'd say that's very likely the prominent reason he wasn't kept on.

The OP has a history of posting here blaming multiple different jobs for a variety of issues that all in the end seem to be his own problem with not having any work ethic at all. He wanted to laze around all day and complained about being 'bullied' when told to actually do some work.

He's also shown a side of sexism, and considering his responses on and over reaction here when told that yet again the employer isn't the one in the wrong - this person has a huge range of attitude problems and a sense of entitlement that no employer would want to hire them.

The i should be entitled to a lie on because I'm in college was a great thread in fairness 😂

antimatterx

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

The i should be entitled to a lie on because I'm in college was a great thread in fairness 😂

Outside final year, college is a doss.

Wuff Wuff

antimatterx wrote: »

Outside final year, college is a doss.

PLCs are a doss full stop, I've done enough of them to know haha

mark2912

KiKi III wrote: »

With empathy OP, you’re talking about a job in Dunnes like it was the love of your life. Why was it so important to you?

I know they began hiring again due to increased demand during Covid, would you try to get back in there?

It was important to me because it was a huge weight off my shoulders being able to go to work without the horrible working conditions I had at my job before that one (see thread regarding this https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058024453 )

I will never forget going in to Dunnes a week or 2 before Christmas, looking at the roster and seeing 2 other temporary staff on it for dates after Christmas. Aware of how I felt about this, my manager rang me on NYE to tell me that there was a position available in the Cafe Sol within the Dunnes branch and would I be interested. This involved 8am starts on weekends and paid around €10.60/hour which was nothing near what I was on in Dunnes initially, so I declined the offer

Tiddlypeeps

It's bullsh*t that they are offering such a low rate even if it is legal, especially when working retail right now is a bit of a health hazard. However it is much easier to get a job while you are in a job. Looking at a CV or job application where someone is actively working makes that person 100 times more attractive than someone who is not.

Wuff Wuff

Aw diddums

8am starts

Alrigghtythen

mark2912 wrote: »

It was important to me because it was a huge weight off my shoulders being able to go to work without the horrible working conditions I had at my job before that one (see thread regarding this https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058024453 )

I will never forget going in to Dunnes a week or 2 before Christmas, looking at the roster and seeing 2 other temporary staff on it for dates after Christmas. Aware of how I felt about this, my manager rang me on NYE to tell me that there was a position available in the Cafe Sol within the Dunnes branch and would I be interested. This involved 8am starts on weekends and paid around €10.60/hour which was nothing near what I was on in Dunnes initially, so I declined the offer

Well that 10.60 seems rather attractive now.

The Sky

mark2912 wrote: »

I couldn't care less about the experience at the end of the day, I know nobody else who gets paid that low. €8.39 is a joke and should be illegal, its a disgrace, I'll get laughed at by friends/peers, all of whom get paid at least €10.10 in their jobs.

The one job I liked was only temporary. The fact that I expressed interest in being made permanent after xmas to them and they went ahead and kept 2 other people instead of me is what got to me the most. Loosing that job was like loosing a limb and changed who I am today. I didn't care about anything else, just the job, I wanted to be dead, I was grieving. I obviously wasn't good enough for them

I really hope you find a job more suited to your needs but you're going to have to grow up a little bit and take this one on the chin, experience is valuable especially for your age and with the current situation facing us all. Take the job so that it may lead to bigger and better opportunites for you in the future, you gotta have a can do attitude!

Also never mind what your friends think, they won't know unless you tell them, and at least it is honest work, appreciate that fact.

antimatterx

mark2912 wrote: »

It was important to me because it was a huge weight off my shoulders being able to go to work without the horrible working conditions I had at my job before that one (see thread regarding this https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058024453 )

I will never forget going in to Dunnes a week or 2 before Christmas, looking at the roster and seeing 2 other temporary staff on it for dates after Christmas. Aware of how I felt about this, my manager rang me on NYE to tell me that there was a position available in the Cafe Sol within the Dunnes branch and would I be interested. This involved 8am starts on weekends and paid around €10.60/hour which was nothing near what I was on in Dunnes initially, so I declined the offer

Are you actually serious? Nothing like you were on?? It's a 63c an hour decrease. If you worked 40 hours, you were down €25. That's nothing, and you were foolish not to take it.

Why are 8am starts an issue? You would probably finish at 4.

newuser99999

mark2912 wrote: »

I will never forget going in to Dunnes a week or 2 before Christmas, looking at the roster and seeing 2 other temporary staff on it for dates after Christmas. Aware of how I felt about this, my manager rang me on NYE to tell me that there was a position available in the Cafe Sol within the Dunnes branch and would I be interested. This involved 8am starts on weekends and paid around €10.60/hour which was nothing near what I was on in Dunnes initially, so I declined the offer

I think you’re going to have to toughen up if you’re going to continue down the business route. Not being kept on at Dunnes after Christmas is nothing personal. They simply don’t have the need for all the staff after Christmas. What’s the problem with 8am starts? You’ll be looking at a lot earlier in an accounts office etc in the future.

mark2912

antimatterx wrote: »

Are you actually serious? Nothing like you were on?? It's a 63c an hour decrease. If you worked 40 hours, you were down €25. That's nothing, and you were foolish not to take it.

Why are 8am starts an issue? You would probably finish at 4.

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

challengemaster

This is the first time I've truly understood what people mean by "Snowflake generation"

Wuff Wuff

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

How would they know what you're being paid?

And I doubt they would be arsed if they did anyways

Counselling over a seasonal job, jesus wept

antimatterx

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

It's 63c. You would still be making a wage every week.

Alrigghtythen

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

it was a different job in the cafe, and cares what they think, they're not paying your Bill's. Whether they have a job or not does affect your situation. Take the job in dealz and when you turn 19 in a few months you have a pay rise to look forward to.

circadian

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

They wouldn't know the changes in salary unless you told them.

They don't care.

The Sky

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

You said it yourself, they were "obviously better", accept that fact, and try harder next time. Life owes you nothing and you're going to have to carve your own way in life and make a better situation for yourself.

One penny make two penny, one pound makes two pound etc, just take the job, it's easier to get a job once you have a job, remember that.

salmocab

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

If they were obviously better to be kept on them you surely can’t think you should be paid as much as them?

Strumms

The Sky wrote: »

I really hope you find a job more suited to your needs but you're going to have to grow up a little bit and take this one on the chin, experience is valuable especially for your age and with the current situation facing us all. Take the job so that it may lead to bigger and better opportunites for you in the future, you gotta have a can do attitude!

Also never mind what your friends think, they won't know unless you tell them, and at least it is honest work, appreciate that fact.

Why should they ‘take it on the chin’ ? They are 18 years of age, they are an adult. If working they should be entitled to the minimum that’s been afforded to their other adult colleagues.. be it at 18, 19, 20, 29, 49 years of age...they are going to have the same expectations of them give or take, yes they will have less experience but an incentive to gain some aptitude and abilities is to reward their efforts fairly...

If I’m working in a supermarket stacking shelves, the guy with two years experience, at 22 is doing the same job is getting paid a euro more an hour, fine, but I’m still expecting minimum wage..I still want it in stone.

KiKi III

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

It sounds like the counseling is needed, but not because of the job. The fact that it upset you so much suggests deeper issues.

You seem very paranoid about what others think of you and that’s not healthy either.

Have you considered education or training to set yourself up for a career outside retail?

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Why should they ‘take it on the chin’ ? They are 18 years of age, they are an adult. If working they should be entitled to the minimum that’s been afforded to their other adult colleagues.. be it at 18, 19, 20, 29, 49 years of age...they are going to have the same expectations of them give or take, yes they will have less experience but an incentive to gain some aptitude and abilities is to reward their efforts fairly...

If I’m working in a supermarket stacking shelves, the guy with two years experience, at 22 is doing the same job is getting paid a euro more an hour, fine, but I’m still expecting minimum wage..I still want it in stone.

The employer is doing nothing wrong here in relation to the rate of pay, you can have that in stone if you like.

road_high

mark2912 wrote: »

It was important to me because it was a huge weight off my shoulders being able to go to work without the horrible working conditions I had at my job before that one (see thread regarding this https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058024453 )

I will never forget going in to Dunnes a week or 2 before Christmas, looking at the roster and seeing 2 other temporary staff on it for dates after Christmas. Aware of how I felt about this, my manager rang me on NYE to tell me that there was a position available in the Cafe Sol within the Dunnes branch and would I be interested. This involved 8am starts on weekends and paid around €10.60/hour which was nothing near what I was on in Dunnes initially, so I declined the offer

....a bird in the hand. I know you really wanted to work on the shop floor but the job in the Cafe (which they offered you!!) would have kept your leg in the door and added new experience to your cv. Who knows, you may have loved it too? If you have no job you take what you can as a starting point back to where you want to be. You dont get that sitting at home just waiting for the “perfect job”- no such thing and if there is there’s usually a hard route towards. Maybe this all comes with age?

road_high

mark2912 wrote: »

But its not fair at all, imagine going back to a job and being paid less than the other 2 that were obviously better to be kept than me. Them 2 looking down on you like "ha ha we're better than you", I wasn't doing it to myself.

The whole situation broke my heart, I've needed counselling and was also prescribed diazepam as a result.

If you were very bothered what they think (believe me, they did not give a damn) just say you wanted to work in the cafe for the experience.

callmehal

mark2912 wrote: »

So it appears that while they aren't breaking the law, but it still isn't good enough.

€8.39/hour, min 12 hours/ week contract, paid monthly - do the maths:
8.39x12= 100.68
100.68*4= €402.72 per month

How can anybody live on that a month? Most people earn that in a week, never mind a month

Head down to the dole office and sign on. Don't listen to anyone who sneers at this option.

callmehal

challengemaster wrote: »

Well then don't take the job if you're not happy with the pay?

Welcome to being an adult

Being an adult does not mean accepting ****ty pay in a ****ty job.

Who2

Strumms wrote: »

Why should they ‘take it on the chin’ ? They are 18 years of age, they are an adult. If working they should be entitled to the minimum that’s been afforded to their other adult colleagues.. be it at 18, 19, 20, 29, 49 years of age...they are going to have the same expectations of them give or take, yes they will have less experience but an incentive to gain some aptitude and abilities is to reward their efforts fairly...

If I’m working in a supermarket stacking shelves, the guy with two years experience, at 22 is doing the same job is getting paid a euro more an hour, fine, but I’m still expecting minimum wage..I still want it in stone.

Theres a lot of employees out there, who cant wipe their own a*se let alone cover the cost of minimum wage. If someones good, minimum wage is only a temporary stop gap,before that its a matter of experience, work ethic and foremost attitude to the job. A good worker will be noticed, kept and get a pay rise in the majority of situations. Dramas, whinging, lazing about or complaining about damn all will only put them on top of the list to be let go.
Too many people land into work and expect to get paid for just turning up, how many could cover themselves if they got paid by the amount they done?

callmehal

callmehal wrote: »

Being an adult does not mean accepting ****ty pay in a ****ty job.

No, but sometimes it means accepting what you can get.