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How long before Irish reunification?

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  • Options
    #9812
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    jm08 wrote: »
    You made the point that Ireland would have been better off staying in the Commonwealth. I made the point that being a member of the Commonwealth didn't help the Belgalis from being starved by Churchill's Britain.


    India has 22 official languages (including English).




    So? Brazilians play football better than British people. Does that make them less Brazilian?





    Great. There are a few here who are worried about the disruption of a UI to their lives. They will be reassured to read that.





    Polls don't show that.





    Nothing to do with Irish culture.

    You are talking through your hat if Ireland remain in the commonwealth it would have saved 3k plus lives for a start.
    1916 was not popular.

    Most SF young voters do not care about NI as they voted on SF's platform of houses. To say otherwise is fantasy stuff. In my mind you are typical of the plastic paddy who pretends to be Irish by wanted a unified Ireland.
    You have no other real sense of Irishness left.
    No different to an Irish American on paddies day or Friends of SF in NY.

    I repeat Pearse said Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam how right he was.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9813
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    15-20 years
    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Well your a munsterlegend that is all that matters.

    How do you think Irish unification or non unification would affect your day to day life as a fella from munster?

    Unification higher taxes and potential violence?
    Non Unification you get on with your life as is in the ROI.

    Non reunification/blocked vote in free state and dissidents kick off again there and bring down the state.....i know way more dissidents than loyalists


  • Options
    #9814
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    You are talking through your hat if Ireland remain in the commonwealth it would have saved 3k plus lives for a start.
    1916 was not popular.
    This common myth has long since been debunked. 1916 was 'unpopular' with those who controlled the media at the time.


  • Options
    #9815
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Because you said NI was 'peaceful'.

    It is by thier standards as you well know. 200 in over 20 plus years is only 2 a year. Sad to see. But not a crisis.

    Plus if you think NI is not peaceful now.
    Can you imagine what it would be like if the unionists were forced into the ROI?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #9816
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    It is by thier standards as you well know. 200 in over 20 plus years is only 2 a year. Sad to see. But not a crisis.

    Plus if you think NI is not peaceful now.
    Can you imagine what it would be like if the unionists were forced into the ROI?

    Nobody will be forced. They have en masse agreed if the majority want a UI they will accept it. Keep up.


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    #9817
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    downcow wrote: »
    I actually do have some sympathy for bobby sands as an individual manipulated by the Ira.
    I certainly have an awful lot more sympathy for those who were butchered, raped, molested, murdered and tortured by his organisation.

    And I still believe he was at least charged with stealing or attempted stealing - but maybe you can enlighten us.


    No mention of that here. Its a good read and a reliable source.



    https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/events/hstrike/sands/sands81.htm#intro\


    Do you have any sympathy for the victims of Willie Frazers paramilitary activities?


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    #9818
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This common myth has long since been debunked. 1916 was 'unpopular' with those who controlled the media at the time.

    Tell me where and I will read it?
    Few different sources?
    Because I did not hear of the conditions of the Dublin slums improve once the tricolour was raised.
    The working class are being duped with the same promise again it seems?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9819
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Nobody will be forced. They have en masse agreed if the majority want a UI they will accept it. Keep up.

    They will be forced thier unionist culture will be lost. They will become the oppressed.
    Simple as that.
    Plus as I said Ireland is closer to GB culturally (pop culture wise) than at any time in history. That is the irony.

    Does a line on map compensate mentally for the SF working class Dublin voter who speaks English, reads the Sun and supports Man U?
    I think that is all the game is for a lot of them a republican pretense.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9820
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Tell me where and I will read it?
    Few different sources?
    Because I did not hear of the conditions of the Dublin slums improve once the tricolour was raised.
    The working class are being duped with the same promise again it seems?

    Diarmuid Ferriter and Joseph Lee off the top of my head.

    There were some wives of British soldiers who spat at and abused the leaders and the press was decidedly against it.


  • Options
    #9821
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    They will be forced thier unionist culture will be lost. They will become the oppressed.
    Simple as that.
    Plus as I said Ireland is closer to GB culturally (pop culture wise) than at any time in history. That is the irony.

    Does a line on map compensate mentally for the SF working class Dublin voter who speaks English, reads the Sun and supports Man U?
    I think that is all the game is for a lot of them a republican pretense.

    What is this Unionist 'culture' that will be lost?

    You are the expert on culture...define it in everyday terms.


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    #9822
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    You are talking through your hat if Ireland remain in the commonwealth it would have saved 3k plus lives for a start. 1916 was not popular.


    We were thrown out of the Commonwealth. An exception was made for India when it gained Independence.


    Most SF young voters do not care about NI as they voted on SF's platform of houses. To say otherwise is fantasy stuff. In my mind you are typical of the plastic paddy who pretends to be Irish by wanted a unified Ireland.
    You have no other real sense of Irishness left.
    No different to an Irish American on paddies day or Friends of SF in NY.


    Exit poll after last General Election.


    The youngest age group polled showed the most support for a border poll within the next 5 years:
    • 18 – 24: 75% said yes
    • 25 – 34: 60% said yes
    • 35 – 49: 62% said yes
    • 50 – 64: 54% said yes
    • 65+: 47% said yes
    https://www.thejournal.ie/ge2020-border-poll-4999083-Feb2020/


    I repeat Pearse said Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam how right he was.


    Whats your point? Ireland is a country with no soul because it doesn't have a language?


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    #9823
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    jm08 wrote: »
    There was a bit more to Brian Boru than just the Battle of Clontarf! Are you in denial that Irish people are an ethnic group native to the island of Ireland who share a common language, culture and identity?

    Denial? There is no ethic group of Irish people in Ireland you eejit!
    It has been mixed with Anglo-Irish, Normans, and Vikings over centuries.

    The Irish ethnic group/race was a republican construct.

    What Ireland did have was an Irish culture. But you and many others lost thier's within three generations. So people like you have only limited ways to show Irishness such as being pro- republican UI.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9824
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    jm08 wrote: »
    We were thrown out of the Commonwealth. An exception was made for India when it gained Independence.






    Exit poll after last General Election.


    The youngest age group polled showed the most support for a border poll within the next 5 years:
    • 18 – 24: 75% said yes
    • 25 – 34: 60% said yes
    • 35 – 49: 62% said yes
    • 50 – 64: 54% said yes
    • 65+: 47% said yes
    https://www.thejournal.ie/ge2020-border-poll-4999083-Feb2020/






    Whats your point? Ireland is a country with no soul because it doesn't have a language?

    One exit poll? What does that prove people who pretend to express thier 'Irishness' by claiming they support a UI?

    If it came to reality of higher taxes and return of more deaths and violence the young would change thier tune.
    When I was younger and naive I used to say I would like a UI.
    It is very easy to say it without thinking of practicalities just to sound 'patriotic and Irish'

    My point on the Irish language if Irish people really felt Irish they would immersed in Irish culture, and not British culture.
    That is how to be Irish not just pretend you care about a border up north.

    Granted Brexit may have given some argument towards the need for a change.
    But the reality is hardcore SF voters used to align with their parties anti EU views so that irony is not lost on me either.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9825
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Diarmuid Ferriter and Joseph Lee off the top of my head.

    There were some wives of British soldiers who spat at and abused the leaders and the press was decidedly against it.

    You told me this already. I would regard Ferriter as biased. Have not read Lee.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9826
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    One exit poll? What does that prove people who pretend to express thier Irishness by claiming they support a UI?

    If it came to reality of higher taxes and return of more deaths and violence the young would change thier tune.
    When I was younger and naive I used to say I would like a UI.
    It is very easy to say it without thinking of practicalities just to sound 'patriotic and Irish'

    My point on the Irish language if Irish people really felt Irish they would immersed in Irish culture and not British culture.
    That is how to be Irish not to pretend you care about a border up north.

    Granted Brexit may have given some argument towards the need for a change.
    But the reality is hardcore SF voters used to align with their parties anti EU views so that irony is not lost on me either.

    I'm sure FGers aligned with their recent anti SSM and women's rights views too. What is your point here?
    Culture can't evolve and now your political opinions can't?

    You aren't coming across as an average reasonable person here.


  • Options
    #9827
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    You told me this already. I would regard Ferriter as biased. Have not read Lee.

    He's no fan of SF, so he'd be closer to you than me.


  • Options
    #9828
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    downcow wrote: »
    Thank you jm08. You have finally accepted I am not part of the ‘Irish people’ you refer to as I certainly don’t meet this criteria. Nor of course would Bobby sands or Gerry Adams lol. You might need to rethink that last post


    Bearing in mind that Sands and Adams were catholic, its more than likely their ancestors intermarried with the natives!


  • Options
    #9829
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He's no fan of SF, so he'd be closer to you than me.

    Just the way he frames some stuff, I don't like it.

    Anyway I would have been all for a UI for years. Even voted against the GFA as I resented the removal of articles 2 and 3.

    But now as I am older I realise how wrong I was.
    Really wrong.

    And how Irishness should not be expressed through geographic aspirations. Irishness is a state of mind between the ears, and how involved a person is in Irish culture imo. Not an artificial line on a map. And peace is the most important thing.

    So no to a UI for me if it means no peace. Amazing u-turn I know but I copped on.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9830
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I'm sure FGers aligned with their recent anti SSM and women's rights views too. What is your point here?
    Culture can't evolve and now your political opinions can't?

    You aren't coming across as an average reasonable person here.

    My point is the majority working class SF voters in the ROI do not have an Irish culture. They have a British one in all but name. So thier only expression of Irishness is to pretend to be republican if asked. UI anti partition.
    I have met so many of these eejits in Dublin with a Celtic or Man U or Liverpool
    tattoo it is laughable. And thier missus watches strictly.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9831
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    My point is the majority working class SF voters in the ROI do not have an Irish culture.
    Not one that you recognise, but then your idea of Irishness seems to have stopped dead with Pearse.

    Whenever you are ready to define this 'culture' Unionists will be losing...I'm all ears.


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    #9832
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Denial? There is no ethic group of Irish people in Ireland you eejit!
    It has been mixed with Anglo-Irish, Normans, and Vikings over centuries.

    The Irish ethnic group/race was a republican construct.


    You assume that there was no intermarriage with the new arrivals. I don't consider anyone with the name FitzGerald to be any less Irish than someone with the surname of O'Neill.

    What Ireland did have was an Irish culture. But you and many others lost thier's within three generations. So people like you have only limited ways to show Irishness such as being pro- republican UI.


    Riverdance seems to be thriving, as are the Chieftains.


  • Options
    #9833
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Not one that you recognise, but then your idea of Irishness seems to have stopped dead with Pearse.

    Whenever you are ready to define this 'culture' Unionists will be losing...I'm all ears.

    So you don't think it is pathetic to have Republicans speaking English as a first language, supporting English soccer clubs and saying 'we', immersed in all aspects of British culture as a contradiction at all?

    Most I feel just want to be part of a gang.

    What will the unionist lose they will be in a state hostile to thier religion and will not longer be part of the UK. A UK which subs NI billions to keep going.
    They would be ran out of it like the Prods from Cork were in the 20's.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9834
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    One exit poll? What does that prove people who pretend to express thier 'Irishness' by claiming they support a UI?

    If it came to reality of higher taxes and return of more deaths and violence the young would change thier tune.
    When I was younger and naive I used to say I would like a UI.
    It is very easy to say it without thinking of practicalities just to sound 'patriotic and Irish'

    My point on the Irish language if Irish people really felt Irish they would immersed in Irish culture, and not British culture.
    That is how to be Irish not just pretend you care about a border up north.

    Granted Brexit may have given some argument towards the need for a change.
    But the reality is hardcore SF voters used to align with their parties anti EU views so that irony is not lost on me either.


    One exit poll is better than absolutely no poll that you have provided to back up your ascertains.


  • Options
    #9835
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So you don't think it is pathetic to have Republicans speaking English as a first language, supporting English soccer clubs and saying 'we', immersed in all aspects of British culture as a contradiction at all?
    You are berating people for having no culture yet your definition of 'culture' seems to be what football you watch and soaps.


    What will the unionist lose they will be in a state hostile to thier religion and will not longer be part of the UK. A UK which subs NI billions to keep going.
    They would be ran out of it like the Prods from Cork were in the 20's.

    What decade are you living in?
    Getting handouts is a part of your 'culture' now?


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    #9836
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    My point is the majority working class SF voters in the ROI do not have an Irish culture. They have a British one in all but name. So thier only expression of Irishness is to pretend to be republican if asked. UI anti partition.
    I have met so many of these eejits in Dublin with a Celtic or Man U or Liverpool
    tattoo it is laughable. And thier missus watches strictly.


    Is that Latin American dance?


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    #9837
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    20-30 years
    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So you don't think it is pathetic to have Republicans speaking English as a first language, supporting English soccer clubs and saying 'we', immersed in all aspects of British culture as a contradiction at all?

    Most I feel just want to be part of a gang.

    What will the unionist lose they will be in a state hostile to thier religion and will not longer be part of the UK. A UK which subs NI billions to keep going.
    They would be ran out of it like the Prods from Cork were in the 20's.


    When Ireland are playing England in soccer, who do these 'we' supporters shout for?


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    #9838
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    jm08 wrote: »
    You assume that there was no intermarriage with the new arrivals. I don't consider anyone with the name FitzGerald to be any less Irish than someone with the surname of O'Neill.

    You mentioned Irish race. There is no Irish race.



    Riverdance seems to be thriving, as are the Chieftains.

    Is there a point here because one was formed on the back of an Irish American, and the other is an aging Trad band.

    In my view Ola Majekodunmi is much more of an Irish person than many of these faux ROI working class republicans I have seen in Dublin.



    Why?
    Because she has not politicized the Irish language like SF have tried to do in NI.
    Which was disgusting in my view
    She is immersed in Irish culture, and her sense of Irishness in not based on the removal of a line on a map in Ulster.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #9839
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,521 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    You mentioned Irish race. There is no Irish race.






    Is there a point here because one was formed on the back of an Irish American and the other is an aging Trad band.

    In my view Ola Majekodunmi is much more of an Irish person than many of these faux ROI working class republicans.



    Why?
    Because she has not politicized the Irish language like SF have tried to do in NI.
    Which was disgusting in my view
    She is immersed in Irish culture, and her sense of Irishness in not based on the removal of a line on a map in NI.

    The outright refusal by Unionism, (who stamp their feet about going out of alignment with the UK in other matters) to accord the Irish language the same status as other languages in the UK, is what politicised it.


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    #9840
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,409 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You are berating people for having no culture yet your definition of 'culture' seems to be what football you watch and soaps.

    You see no irony in it whatsoever?
    Fair enough. If you do not want to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance of ROI republicans saying 'we' for British teams and being immersed in British culture that is up to you. But that is the life of most 'republicans' I have met from Dublin.
    It might as well be a biker gang they are voting for as far as they are concerned. They are just compensating and looking for a sense of belonging. Their Irishness has long gone.
    Lines on a map gives them something to pretend to be Irish over.


    What decade are you living in?
    Getting handouts is a part of your 'culture' now?

    Most SF ROI republicans would like increased social welfare and loads of social housing and so on. It is one the main reasons they vote SF. With the promise that taxing the rich will solve everything.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #9841
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    You used to with your former account.

    What do you mean by a former account?

    And why in the context of this thread do you keep talking about the British Empire? You're obsessed with the British Empire. Northern Ireland is not part of the British Empire, it's a region within the United Kingdom for the foreseeable future, until it's people decide otherwise.


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