How long before Irish reunification?

jm08

20-30 years

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As a general point about nationality.
I have to laugh about how recent the concept of Irish nationally actually was.
It was only mentioned with the chat about Red Hugh O'Donnell's remains on the news this morning.

Before 1603 Ireland was just a collection of tribes - disjointed
But yet history is spun towards a modern republican narrative instead.
No one calls Brian Boru an invader (about five centuries prior) who invaded the other kingdoms in Ireland. In republican mythology Boru is seen as a 'true gael'. I doubt a unification of Boru's conquests were done with just a firm handshake, and he was just given the High King of Ireland title!.

--

Today it is as follows.
It all comes down to whether a NI in the UK but outside the EU is worth more for the unionists as is.
And if they view it as worth fighting for against the ROI.

Personally I think things should be left alone as the six counties are not worth the hassle, money, or lives. Feck ideology leave well enough alone.

I think you should read up a bit more about Brian Boru as you clearly haven't a clue!

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By opening fire randomly on a crowd of people at a match.

Earlier that day,assassination squads had murdered a number of civilians,soldiers and police-when troops arrived at the stadium they maintain they were shot at and so returned fire.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am just curious is your 'Irishness' based on the hatred of the British?
You speak English as your first language, and clearly follow Munster rugby judging by your username.
A sport created by the English!
I think it is gas.

When British people talk of the World Wars and what happened do you believe that they hate 'the Germans'?

It is such a silly conclusion to draw.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Earlier that day,assassination squads had murdered a number of civilians,soldiers and police-when troops arrived at the stadium they maintain they were shot at and so returned fire.

They were in armoured cars. They fired randomly into the crowd. They did the same on Bloody Sunday in Derry and countless time around the world.

gormdubhgorm

jm08 wrote: »

I think you should read up a bit more about Brian Boru as you clearly haven't a clue!

Well neither yourself or myself were there at the time.
So.... cop on

Plus to blindly say I have no clue considering I know about what is written about the battle of Contarf and so on - is very condescending even for you.

It was Pearse and the republicans who started the concept and myth of an Irish race.
Yet here you are in the 21st thinking an island should be united purely on the basis of your one-sided ideology.
The irony is the British were the only people who managed to united ireland and it was Irish people who divided it.

munsterlegend

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am just curious is your 'Irishness' based on the hatred of the British?
You speak English as your first language, and clearly follow Munster rugby judging by your username.
A sport created by the English!
I think it is gas.

Username has nothing to do with Munster rugby but keep guessing. Not that I haven’t been to thomond many times. Anyway it was actually the Scottish with the rugby.

If you can point to where I have posted hatred of the British please advise? Perhaps you could concentrate on Rob who seemed to think it was ok to shoot Irish people in croker. Is that not real hatred?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well neither yourself or myself were there at the time.
So.... cop on

Plus to blindly say I have no clue considering I know about what is written about the battle of Contarf and so on - is very condescending even for you.

It was Pearse and the republicans who started the concept and myth of an Irish race.
Yet here you are in the 21st thinking an island should be united purely on the basis of your one-sided ideology.
The irony is the British were the only people who managed to united ireland and it was Irish people who divided it.

Do you think therefore our quest for independence was wrong?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When British people talk of the World Wars and what happened do you believe that they hate 'the Germans'?

It is such a silly conclusion to draw.

Again the working class red top readers would - as they have a narrow sense of natiaonalisty and are looking to compensate for thier failings.

Similar to the working class in the ROI. So we have a fella who calls himself munsterlegend who will somehow feel more Irish in his/her head if a line on a map includes 6 counties from NI.

If Munsterlegend really was Irish he/she would be focusing on Irish culture sport and language as the Gaelic league aspired to.

But as many plastic repulicans only sense of Irishness these days it is not Irish culture that is the focus. The only sense of Irishness is to pretend not to like the British.

You have that mindset as well Francie with your family background. But at least you have an excuse as a border county. Fellas from elsewhere in Ireland pretending to care about unification are just bandwagon jumpers imo.
Trying to express Irishness by other means because they have lost thier Irish culture.
Makes no difference to the day to lives of someone in Munster or Dublin etc if Ireland was unified. That is just a fact of life. It is all an ideological illusion.

Not worth the hassle, money or lives lost if Ireland was unified.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you think therefore our quest for independence was wrong?

In hindsight yes it was not worth it.
If Ireland remained in the commonwealth a lot more lives could have been saved.
Ireland would also have been better off economically.

Plus Ireland is close to Britain in culture as I said before.
Many of those working class SF voters in ROI listen to Brit Music, watch Brit soaps, follow Brit soccer teams, read Brit tabloids, and speak English as a first language.

It is really hypocritical when you think about it.

munsterlegend

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Again the working class red top readers would - as they have a narrow sense of natiaonalisty and are looking to compensate for thier failings.

Similar to the working class in the ROI. So we have a fella who calls himself munsterlegend who will somehow feel more Irish in his/her head if a line on a map includes 6 counties from NI.

If Munsterlegend really was Irish he/she would be focusing on Irish culture sport and language as the Gaelic league aspired to.

But as many plastic repulicans only sense of Irishness these days it is not Irish culture that is the focus. The only sense of Irishness is to pretend not to like the British.

You have that mindset as well Francie with your family background. But at least you have an excuse as a border county. Fellas from elsewhere in Ireland pretending to care about unification are just bandwagon jumpers imo.
Trying to express Irishness by other means because they have lost thier Irish culture.
Makes no difference to the day to lives of someone in Munster or Dublin etc if Ireland was unified. That is just a fact of life. It is all an ideological illusion.

Not worth the hassle, money or lives lost if Ireland was unified.

You have no idea of what involvement I have in Irish culture nor do I I have to explain/justify it to you. You had a thought based on a username and ran with it. What an amadán.

jm08

20-30 years

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well neither yourself or myself were there at the time.
So.... cop on

Plus to blindly say I have no clue considering I know about what is written about the battle of Contarf and so on - is very condescending even for you.

It was Pearse and the republicans who started the concept and myth of an Irish race.
Yet here you are in the 21st thinking an island should be united purely on the basis of your one-sided ideology.
The irony is the British were the only people who managed to united ireland and it was Irish people who divided it.

There was a bit more to Brian Boru than just the Battle of Clontarf! Are you in denial that Irish people are an ethnic group native to the island of Ireland who share a common language, culture and identity?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Again the working class red top readers would - as they have a narrow sense of natiaonalisty and are looking to compensate for thier failings.

Similar to the working class in the ROI. So we have a fella who calls himself munsterlegend who will somehow feel more Irish in his/her head if a line on a map includes 6 counties from NI.

If Munsterlegend really was Irish he/she would be focusing on Irish culture sport and language as the Gaelic league aspired to.

But as many plastic repulicans only sense of Irishness these days it is not Irish culture that is the focus. The only sense of Irishness is to pretend not to like the British.

You have that mindset as well Francie with your family background. But at least you have an excuse as a border county. Fellas from elsewhere in Ireland pretending to care about unification are just bandwagon jumpers imo.
Trying to express Irishness by other means because they have lost thier Irish culture.
Makes no difference to the day to lives of someone in Munster or Dublin etc if Ireland was unified. That is just a fact of life. It is all an ideological illusion.

Not worth the hassle, money or lives lost if Ireland was unified.

So you think 'culture' stopped dead and didn't develop past a certain point. That is a myopic worldview.
The 'Irish culture' is many many things and has always evolved.

It takes a special kind of arrogance to dictate what people should think is important to them and that if they don't display certain traits from a century ago that they are jumping on bandwagons.

gormdubhgorm

munsterlegend wrote: »

You have no idea of what involvement I have in Irish culture nor do I I have to explain/justify it to you. You had a thought based on a username and ran with it. What an amadán.

Well your a munsterlegend that is all that matters.

How do you think Irish unification or non unification would affect your day to day life as a fella from munster?

Unification higher taxes and potential violence?
Non Unification you get on with your life as is in the ROI.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In hindsight yes it was not worth it.
If Ireland remained in the commonwealth a lot more lives could have been saved.
Ireland would also have been better off economically.

What are you basing this on?

The relationship with Britain was festering, it wouldn't have sustained itself.

Plus Ireland is close to Britain in culture as I said before.
Many of those working class SF voters in ROI listen to Brit Music, watch Brit soaps, follow Brit soccer teams, read Brit tabloids, and speak English as a first language.

It is really hypocritical when you think about it.

So what?
The UK is the biggest market in Europe for American popular culture.

We have our own soaps- music- soccer teams- newspapers (the English ones have to do Irish editions to sell btw etc and a language, which, like it or not, people value.

Fuascailteoir

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well your a munsterlegend that is all that matters.

How do you think Irish unification or non unification would affect your day to day life as a fella from munster?

Unification higher taxes and potential violence?
Non Unification you get on with your life as is in the ROI.

British interference in ireland has been a complete disaster and will continue to do so as long as they have any role on the island. Your syphophantic musings are almost as idiotic as they are pathetic

jm08

20-30 years

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In hindsight yes it was not worth it.
If Ireland remained in the commonwealth a lot more lives could have been saved.
Ireland would also have been better off economically.

In fairness, the only good thing about the Commonwealth is the games they put on every couple of years!

What good has it done India for instance? They were in the Commonwealth when Churchill let 4 million Bengali's starve and actually stopped aid from other countries.

Plus Ireland is close to Britain in culture as I said before.
Many of those working class SF voters in ROI listen to Brit Music, watch Brit soaps, follow Brit soccer teams, read Brit tabloids, and speak English as a first language.

It is really hypocritical when you think about it.

The whole bloody world are watching 'Normal People' which has the lead actor a GAA player. What does that make them?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you think 'culture' stopped dead and didn't develop past a certain point. That is a myopic worldview.
The 'Irish culture' is many many things and has always evolved.

It takes a special kind of arrogance to dictate what people should think is important to them and that if they don't display certain traits from a century ago that they are jumping on bandwagons.

It is actually SF republcanism that is myopic.
Their working class vote in the ROI are more aligned to Brit culture than Irish culture that is just a fact of life.

If you take away language and the GAA (only over 125 years old) most of the SF ROI voter (working class sky sports soccer generation) most do not seem very tied in Irish culture to me.

I have seen it time and again.
Yet pretending to care about a line on map is the only way they can pretend to be Irish. Something 'plastic paddy' about it ihmo. A compensation for a lack of real Irish culture within.

Pearse was spot on "Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam" but it is only the start of it Irishness has become so lost. Most plastic paddy republicans are blind to it completely.

munsterlegend

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well your a munsterlegend that is all that matters.

How do you think Irish unification or non unification would affect your day to day life as a fella from munster?

Unification higher taxes and potential violence?
Non Unification you get on with your life as is in the ROI.

And you are black and blue? Do you drink too much and keep falling down? That’s your view on unification and a rather selfish how about me attitude.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is actually SF republcanism that is myopic.
Their working class vote in the ROI are more aligned to Brit culture than Irish culture that is just a fact of life.

If you take away language and the GAA (only over 125 years old) most of the SF ROI voter (working class sky sports soccer generation) most do not seem very tied in Irish culture to me.

I have seen it time and again.
Yet pretending to care about a line on map is the only way they can pretend to be Irish. Something 'plastic paddy' about it ihmo. A compensation for a lack of real Irish culture within.

Pearse was spot on "Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam" but it is only the start of it Irishness has become so lost. Most plastic paddy republicans are blind to it completely.

Your archaic notion of Irishness has moved on. No culture anywhere has ever stayed still.

gormdubhgorm

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness, the only good thing about the Commonwealth is the games they put on every couple of years!

What good has it done India for instance? They were in the Commonwealth when Churchill let 4 million Bengali's starve and actually stopped aid from other countries.



The whole bloody world are watching 'Normal People' which has the lead actor a GAA player. What does that make them?

Now you are just desperately trying to create a narrative. Ireland is a lot like India. But there is one crucial difference India kept thier language.
Ireland is the only country in Europe who have virtually lost theirs 70k people speak it regularly.

Ireland still operates on the British system of jurisprudence and largely operates on the British Civil Service system.

But if you want to feel more Irish by pretending to care about unification go ahead.
It will not change the average person's day to day life in the ROI much at all.
Most young ROI SF voters clearly do not care about NI they care about housing rent and so on.
But if you think being pro-unification makes up for your lack of actual Irish culture fair play to ya.
Whatever floats your boat.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

No. In fact, Sands was treated far worse by his protestant neighbours than Willie Frazer apparently was treated by his catholic neighbours and Frazer ending up being implicated in about 70 murders by supplying guns to his loyalist paramilitaries, yet you feel sympathy for Frazer.


Just a little summary of Sands childhood.

I actually do have some sympathy for bobby sands as an individual manipulated by the Ira.
I certainly have an awful lot more sympathy for those who were butchered, raped, molested, murdered and tortured by his organisation.

And I still believe he was at least charged with stealing or attempted stealing - but maybe you can enlighten us.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Nowhere did I praise the British Empire, so why are you saying that

You used to with your former account.

gormdubhgorm

munsterlegend wrote: »

And you are black and blue? Do you drink too much and keep falling down? That’s your view on unification and a rather selfish how about me attitude.

How is it selfish? NI is functioning peacefully no one is getting killed.

If anything I would say those who are pro-unification are the selfish ones.

1) They are willing to risk igniting a new troubles.

2) Are blind to unionist sentiments

3) Somehow think that because Ireland is an Island it is only natural it should be unified.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is it selfish NI is fucntioning peacefully no one is getting killed.

A man was shot dead a few days ago by Dissidents. Almost 200 dead since the GFA.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

There was a bit more to Brian Boru than just the Battle of Clontarf! Are you in denial that Irish people are an ethnic group native to the island of Ireland who share a common language, culture and identity?

Thank you jm08. You have finally accepted I am not part of the ‘Irish people’ you refer to as I certainly don’t meet this criteria. Nor of course would Bobby sands or Gerry Adams lol. You might need to rethink that last post

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Somehow think that because Ireland is an Island it is only natural it should be unified.

Oh it's an awful lot more than that. When there is a vote, you think that the issue will be a northern one? I can assure you it will not be.

People who come out against unification in the South will be asked to come up with a vision for a new permanently partitioned state, with a new flag, new constitution, new anthem and new political party, because this state does not belong to people with those views.

jm08

20-30 years

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Now you are just desperately trying to create a narrative. Ireland is a lot like India. But there is one crucial difference India kept thier language.
Ireland is the only country in Europe who have virtually lost theirs 70k people speak it regularly.

You made the point that Ireland would have been better off staying in the Commonwealth. I made the point that being a member of the Commonwealth didn't help the Belgalis from being starved by Churchill's Britain.


India has 22 official languages (including English).

Ireland still operates on the British system of jurisprudence and largely operates on the British Civil Service system.

So? Brazilians play football better than British people. Does that make them less Brazilian?

But if you want to feel more Irish by pretending to care about unification go ahead.
It will not change the average person's day to day life in the ROI much at all.

Great. There are a few here who are worried about the disruption of a UI to their lives. They will be reassured to read that.

Most young ROI SF voters clearly do not care about NI they care about housing rent and so on.

Polls don't show that.

But if you think being pro-unification makes up for your lack of actual Irish culture fair play to ya. Whatever floats your boat.

Nothing to do with Irish culture.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Thank you jm08. You have finally accepted I am not part of the ‘Irish people’ you refer to as I certainly don’t meet this criteria. Nor of course would Bobby sands or Gerry Adams lol. You might need to rethink that last post

You are downcow. I share your language, culture and your heritage is a part of mine.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A man was shot dead a few days ago by Dissidents. Almost 200 dead since the GFA.

Negligible stuff compared to how it used to be. Plus how is it you as a republican only highlighted dissent deaths. No mention of other deaths and Republican violence Mara Cahill et al? Interesting.

I was thinking of signing up to this

https://www.sinnfein.ie/sfos

Is it any good?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Negligible stuff compared to how it used to be. Plus how is it you as a republican only highlighted dissent deaths. No mention of other deaths and Republican violence Mara Cahill et al? Interesting.

I was thinking of signing up to this

https://www.sinnfein.ie/sfos

Is it any good?

Because you said NI was 'peaceful'.