How long before Irish reunification?

Redgirl82

munsterlegend wrote: »

I’m not a SF supporter but are they not sitting in a room with the DUP at the moment?

While I get your argument another would be that if a place is thriving why would people vote for change and vote for a United Ireland? Look at Scotland while not thriving but relatively comfortable a majority were afraid to take the risk of independence.

Brexit has the potential to change the status quo but you can’t seriously look at border poll figures when people have no idea what a new Ireland actually might look likes economically as well as socially and culturally.

Just look at Covid. DUP doing interview and the one from Sinn Fein sitting in corner with big angry head. As soon as interview is over she goes out and starts complaining about the DUP

Every other country in World, rival parties worked together. Sinn Fein and DUP worked against each other and are a disgrace. Mary Lou was too busy running around Rep of Ireland trying to tell everyone how great she was, didn't care about the North.

It's a disgrace what Sinn Fein and DUP have done since they have took over power sharing, between the odd shut downs of course.

As I posted earlier, DUP and Sinn Fein have no problem collecting a pay cheque each month for doing nothing.

jm08

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

It wasn’t right

None of it was right but are we still pointing the finger at they done this and we done that bull**** because that what Sinn Fein want

If United ireland is going to happen then
Sinn Fein need to shut up in media and start talking to other northern parties

Didn't Sinn Fein have an election pact with other parties for the last election? That suggests it talks to other parties.
Some would say that same advice would apply to Fine Gael in particular down here who absolutely refuse to talk to Sinn Fein.

They need to put something in place that starts to increase the standard of living in Northern Ireland

Standard of living is quite high in NI, thanks to the Southern England taxpayer.

A job program to reduce the public service.

Northern Ireland can't compete with ROI for inward investment. They are relying on Westminister to do that.

Get the my numbers and get an official report, no more back of fag box


Do all that and then start, that would take 6 months at the start, let’s see then......the fact they can’t even sit in a room with DUP suggests you have the wrong party involved

Westminister will need to provide that information.

If people in Northern Ireland really want a unified Ireland then stop voting Sinn Fein, they are incapable of talking to a single party in Ireland. The DUP for all that is said at least got a great deal off the tories, more than Sinn Fein have ever done

I think its Leo who is refusing to talk to them. Michael Martin was willing except Jim O'Callaghan wasn't so kean on it. The big problem FF/FG have with SF in Government is that they will have access to Irish Government files on stuff like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing which won't make for pleasant reading for the people of Ireland.


By the way, Arlene and Michelle seem to be getting on really well (both their mothers have been hospitalised with the virus). Arlene contacted Mary Lou to wish her well when she got the virus, like Prince Charles and Michael Martin which displays a level of decency that Leo struggles to find.

jm08

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Just look at Covid. DUP doing interview and the one from Sinn Fein sitting in corner with big angry head. As soon as interview is over she goes out and starts complaining about the DUP

Every other country in World, rival parties worked together. Sinn Fein and DUP worked against each other and are a disgrace. Mary Lou was too busy running around Rep of Ireland trying to tell everyone how great she was, didn't care about the North.

It's a disgrace what Sinn Fein and DUP have done since they have took over power sharing, between the odd shut downs of course.

As I posted earlier, DUP and Sinn Fein have no problem collecting a pay cheque each month for doing nothing.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-covid-19-crisis-has-brought-us-closer-together-say-northern-irelands-political-leaders-11993647

Redgirl82

jm08 wrote: »

I think its Leo who is refusing to talk to them. Michael Martin was willing except Jim O'Callaghan wasn't so kean on it. The big problem FF/FG have with SF in Government is that they will have access to Irish Government files on stuff like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing which won't make for pleasant reading for the people of Ireland.


By the way, Arlene and Michelle seem to be getting on really well (both their mothers have been hospitalised with the virus). Arlene contacted Mary Lou to wish her well when she got the virus, like Prince Charles and Michael Martin which displays a level of decency that Leo struggles to find.

Any evidence of this new found relationship?

So which party have Sinn Fein managed to negotiate with? might be easier? PBP? Greens? etc?

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were in armoured cars. They fired randomly into the crowd. They did the same on Bloody Sunday in Derry and countless time around the world.

How should they have arrived at the park?
Assassination squads had murdered civilians,soldiers and police earlier that day.They were responding to this atrocity by attempting to apprehend the perpetrators.
It's a well known tactic of these criminals/terrorists to hide behind the public taking pot shots at the BA or police,they even glorify it in songs like 'my little armalite'and 'snipers promise'whilst hiding in ditches and the shadows to shoot young squaddies-then claiming to be civilians when they come unstuck.

jm08

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Any evidence of this new found relationship?

I just provided you with a link. The Northern Ireland Executive is a multi-party Executive of five different parties.

So which party have Sinn Fein managed to negotiate with? might be easier? PBP? Greens? etc?

I've explained to you that FG/FF are scared **** of SF getting access to the security files because it will reveal a lot about their inaction on incidents such as the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.


I think the Green have enough on their plate talking to themselves at the minute.

munsterlegend

RobMc59 wrote: »

How should they have arrived at the park?
Assassination squads had murdered civilians,soldiers and police earlier that day.They were responding to this atrocity by attempting to apprehend the perpetrators.
It's a well known tactic of these criminals/terrorists to hide behind the public taking pot shots at the BA or police,they even glorify it in songs like 'my little armalite'and 'snipers promise'whilst hiding in ditches and the shadows to shoot young squaddies-then claiming to be civilians when they come unstuck.

Rob will you ever go away and stop embarrassing yourself. Trying to justify shooting indiscriminately into people at a football match.

jm08

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

How should they have arrived at the park?
Assassination squads had murdered civilians,soldiers and police earlier that day.They were responding to this atrocity by attempting to apprehend the perpetrators.
It's a well known tactic of these criminals/terrorists to hide behind the public taking pot shots at the BA or police,they even glorify it in songs like 'my little armalite'and 'snipers promise'whilst hiding in ditches and the shadows to shoot young squaddies-then claiming to be civilians when they come unstuck.

This gorilla type warfare was only being invented then. The Croke Park massacre was purely indiscriminate revenge.

By the way, there was no indiscrimate killing of civilians - they were all Dublin Castle spys and informers.

edit: actually two civilians were killed by mistake.

Rob and Hamsterchops will be facinated to know that the person who is regarded as our greatest Taoiseach (and much admired by the Redmondite and later Taoiseach Fine Gael's John Bruton), Sean Lemass was one of the IRA volunteers that took part in Collins' operation and assassinated a British Army Officer on Baggot Street.

Redgirl82

jm08 wrote: »

I just provided you with a link. The Northern Ireland Executive is a multi-party Executive of five different parties.

Sorry I posted at the same time as you did.

Let see them put some good in place for the people of Northern Ireland before we start praising them.

jm08 wrote: »

I've explained to you that FG/FF are scared **** of SF getting access to the security files because it will reveal a lot about their inaction on incidents such as the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.


I think the Green have enough on their plate talking to themselves at the minute.

Tin foil hat stuff now.

First FF/FG didn't want to talk to Sinn Fein because of the supposed power they had, now they are hiding secrets. Do FF/FG know who shot JR?

jm08

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry I posted at the same time as you did.

Let see them put some good in place for the people of Northern Ireland before we start praising them.

What would they have to do for you to actually praise them? Pass an Irish Language Act?

Tin foil hat stuff now.

First FF/FG didn't want to talk to Sinn Fein because of the supposed power they had, now they are hiding secrets. Do FF/FG know who shot JR?

OK - you tell me why do FF/FG not want to talk to SF?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

How should they have arrived at the park?
Assassination squads had murdered civilians,soldiers and police earlier that day.They were responding to this atrocity by attempting to apprehend the perpetrators.
It's a well known tactic of these criminals/terrorists to hide behind the public taking pot shots at the BA or police,they even glorify it in songs like 'my little armalite'and 'snipers promise'whilst hiding in ditches and the shadows to shoot young squaddies-then claiming to be civilians when they come unstuck.

It is stunning that you are defending this.

They opened fire randomly as they have done around the world. It wasn't a justified, rational response then and it wasn't when they did it in Derry and Belfast.
It took 40 years to bring your PM to his knees in a grovelling apology for Derry. The least you can accept is that it was wrong no matter what the circumstances were.

Colluding with what they would otherwise deem 'terrorists' is a well known 'tactic' of you morally upstanding governments too Rob.
'Hiding in ditches' indeed.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is stunning that you are defending this.

They opened fire randomly as they have done around the world. It wasn't a justified, rational response then and it wasn't when they did it in Derry and Belfast.
It took 40 years to bring your PM to his knees in a grovelling apology for Derry. The least you can accept is that it was wrong no matter what the circumstances were.

Colluding with what they would otherwise deem 'terrorists' is a well known 'tactic' of you morally upstanding governments too Rob.
'Hiding in ditches' indeed.

If you only want to discuss a small section of the events that day over 100 years ago that doesn't really tell the whole story.
What is your opinion of the assassination squads which had killed that very day and wouldn't you expect soldiers to be worried about further attacks?-the soldiers maintain they were shot at but as these events happened so long ago with different versions of what happened we will never know.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you only want to discuss a small section of the events that day over 100 years ago that doesn't really tell the whole story.
What is your opinion of the assassination squads which had killed that very day and wouldn't you expect soldiers to be worried about further attacks?-the soldiers maintain they were shot at but as these events happened so long ago with different versions of what happened we will never know.

Well let's talk about them doing it again in Derry or Ballymurphy?

Do you concur with the apology dragged out of your government 40 years after they opened fire randomly in Derry?

They did the same at Amritsar, against the Mau Mau, not to mention what they did at Ventersberg, the Boer Concentration camps or in Tibet. There is a long list of the 'glorious empire's' crimes.

Mortelaro

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

I do not think either of ye should be applying the standards of 2020 to distant historical events
Recent historical events yes but 100s of years ago,no

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Should we still he holding Germany accountable for what Hitler did?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Should we still he holding Germany accountable for what Hitler did?

No. But we should be roundly lambasting anyone who tries to excuse what they did.
And we do. If somebody for instance came on here with a watery, 'ah but look what the Jews did', they would be rounded on and possibly banned. Not so among certain types of Irish people when somebody tries to defend British atrocities here.

Redgirl82

jm08 wrote: »

What would they have to do for you to actually praise them? Pass an Irish Language Act?

Do you think Northern Ireland is in a good place?

What about working together on a number of initiatives to bring jobs to Northern Ireland? what about trying to work out how to move the population from such a high dependency on public service?

What about working together to put a plan in place for a United Ireland if that is what everyone wants? according to posters on here it is only a few "belligerent unionist" who don't want a United Ireland. So why are they not sitting down with DUP now to put a 5 or 10 year plan in place?

It was mentioned somewhere here that Sinn Fein want a train from Derry to Belfast, lets start with that. Why not work with DUP to deliver that project?

jm08 wrote: »

OK - you tell me why do FF/FG not want to talk to SF?

You would have to ask the members but I would guess they like others don't want anything to do with Sinn Fein. They are poison to most people. Simple as that.

Most parties are aware if they went with Sinn Fein you could expect the same sort of childish behaviour that was seen in the Northern Assembly. Sinn Fein don't get their way so they shut down government.

Why would any party want to join up with that? especially when other options available.

Edgware

jm08 wrote: »

This gorilla type warfare was only being invented then. The Croke Park massacre was purely indiscriminate revenge.

By the way, there was no indiscrimate killing of civilians - they were all Dublin Castle spys and informers.

edit: actually two civilians were killed by mistake.

Rob and Hamsterchops will be facinated to know that the person who is regarded as our greatest Taoiseach (and much admired by the Redmondite and later Taoiseach Fine Gael's John Bruton), Sean Lemass was one of the IRA volunteers that took part in Collins' operation and assassinated a British Army Officer on Baggot Street.

"Gorilla" Was there an attack on the zoo?

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Do you think Northern Ireland is in a good place?

What about working together on a number of initiatives to bring jobs to Northern Ireland? what about trying to work out how to move the population from such a high dependency on public service?

What about working together to put a plan in place for a United Ireland if that is what everyone wants? according to posters on here it is only a few "belligerent unionist" who don't want a United Ireland. So why are they not sitting down with DUP now to put a 5 or 10 year plan in place?

It was mentioned somewhere here that Sinn Fein want a train from Derry to Belfast, lets start with that. Why not work with DUP to deliver that project?

The DUP are 'belligerent Unionists', ask anyone passionate about their language, anyone who wants to be safe and un-intimidated in their own homes in July, anyone who is gay, any woman who wants the same rights every other woman has on these islands, anyone who wants parity of esteem as per the GFA, an agreement they belligerently still refuse to accept and enact.

What 'rights' are other party's refusing in the north? What other party is refusing to accept the terms of the GFA?

jm08

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you only want to discuss a small section of the events that day over 100 years ago that doesn't really tell the whole story.
What is your opinion of the assassination squads which had killed that very day and wouldn't you expect soldiers to be worried about further attacks?-the soldiers maintain they were shot at but as these events happened so long ago with different versions of what happened we will never know.

If they were worried about being attacked, why would they go to Croke Park in the first place?


The British Army held an inquiry (behind closed doors and with limited witnesses - only two spectators who gave contrary evidence to who fired first) and it was made available to the public in 2003 (80 odd years later!).Their findings


(i) that it agreed with the court findings

(ii) that the first shots were fired by the crowd and led to the panic;
(iii) that the firing on the crowd was carried out without orders and was indiscriminate and unjustifiable, with the exception of any shooting which took place inside the enclosure.
This opinion was signed by Major-General G.F. Boyd, commanding officer, Dublin.


https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/bloody-sunday-1920-new-evidence/

jm08

20-30 years

Edgware wrote: »

"Gorilla" Was there an attack on the zoo?

No, an episode of 'Dad's Army'!

Redgirl82

15-20 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Do you think Northern Ireland is in a good place?

What about working together on a number of initiatives to bring jobs to Northern Ireland? what about trying to work out how to move the population from such a high dependency on public service?

What about working together to put a plan in place for a United Ireland if that is what everyone wants? according to posters on here it is only a few "belligerent unionist" who don't want a United Ireland. So why are they not sitting down with DUP now to put a 5 or 10 year plan in place?

It was mentioned somewhere here that Sinn Fein want a train from Derry to Belfast, lets start with that. Why not work with DUP to deliver that project?




You would have to ask the members but I would guess they like others don't want anything to do with Sinn Fein. They are poison to most people. Simple as that.

Most parties are aware if they went with Sinn Fein you could expect the same sort of childish behaviour that was seen in the Northern Assembly. Sinn Fein don't get their way so they shut down government.

Why would any party want to join up with that? especially when other options available.

Why not just pull the plug,stormont has been a failed experiment,NI has failed as a state

Its a waste of time,to think it will ever change

Hamsterchops

Mortelaro wrote: »

I do not think either of ye should be applying the standards of 2020 to distant historical events
Recent historical events yes but 100s of years ago,no

Well exactly, why spend pages and pages talking about long gone Empires and battles of old.

How long before Irish Unification?

jm08

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Do you think Northern Ireland is in a good place?

No. But its in a better place than it was in its first version up to the 1970s.

What about working together on a number of initiatives to bring jobs to Northern Ireland? what about trying to work out how to move the population from such a high dependency on public service?

It suits unionists to be dependent on the British State, so I don't think they are too bothered about getting investment into NI. Certainly, the man they had in charge of Investment NI's credentials were not great (former DUP employee) so there might be a bit too much of jobs for the boys up there.

What about working together to put a plan in place for a United Ireland if that is what everyone wants? according to posters on here it is only a few "belligerent unionist" who don't want a United Ireland. So why are they not sitting down with DUP now to put a 5 or 10 year plan in place?

Any ideas as to how to persuade the DUP that planning for a UI is a good plan?

It was mentioned somewhere here that Sinn Fein want a train from Derry to Belfast, lets start with that. Why not work with DUP to deliver that project?

DUP do not support investment on the west of the Bann because there are very few votes in it for them.

You would have to ask the members but I would guess they like others don't want anything to do with Sinn Fein. They are poison to most people. Simple as that.

You forgetting the vote Sinn Fein got in the last elections (and according to polls at the weekend, its vote % share of the vote is holding up with the electorate?)

Most parties are aware if they went with Sinn Fein you could expect the same sort of childish behaviour that was seen in the Northern Assembly. Sinn Fein don't get their way so they shut down government.

The only person in the Dail that displays childish behaviour is Leo Varadkar. He needs to grow up and behave like a leader and stop all these snide remarks that he is prone to make.

Why would any party want to join up with that? especially when other options available.

I don't know about that? Sinn Fein have some very able politicians that FG/FF are now trying to imitate.

jm08

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well exactly, why spend pages and pages talking about long gone Empires and battles of old.

How long before Irish Unification?

I presume because people have to be reminded of their past so that they can avoid making the same mistakes in the future.


As for Irish Reunification - maybe never - all depending on the results of a referendum.

Redgirl82

Seems in the South the problem is FF/FG and in the North it’s the DUP

England it’s the tories. Across Europe it’s everyone

Sinn Fein are the only hope for everyone in Ireland

I know this is tongue in cheek comment but come on now, one minute your signing the new found relationship with DUP and next you are saying they are the root of all evil.

Do the unionist say the same? Do they see Sinn Fein as the saviours that you think they are?

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Seems in the South the problem is FF/FG and in the North it’s the DUP

England it’s the tories. Across Europe it’s everyone

Sinn Fein are the only hope for everyone in Ireland

I know this is tongue in cheek comment but come on now, one minute your signing the new found relationship with DUP and next you are saying they are the root of all evil.

Do the unionist say the same? Do they see Sinn Fein as the saviours that you think they are?

This just dis-ingenuousness again. Nobody has said SF are saviours.

All anyone has said is that SF are no different to what most other political parties were at one time or another on this island.

They are one of, if not the largest political parties democratically mandated on this island.
Some people need to get over that.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

They are one of, if not the largest political parties democratically mandated on this island. Some people need to get over that.

Are you putting SF in NI and the Republic down as the same party?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Are you putting SF in NI and the Republic down as the same party?

Same party operating in two totally different types of legislatures.

*Couldn't help noticing that you quoted part of my post. That's fine.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This just dis-ingenuousness again. Nobody has said SF are saviours.

All anyone has said is that SF are no different to what most other political parties were at one time or another on this island.

They are one of, if not the largest political parties democratically mandated on this island.
Some people need to get over that.

Hmmmmm strange they can’t get next to near being elected into govt, so it is.

Seems to be a fair auld bang off them still, it would appear.

Bit of background some people appear to think, can’t blame them, in fairness, stuff down in Waaaherfurd would certainly shake folk up .