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Gangland Shootings part 3 - Read OP before posting - updated 27/12/23

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    #3782
    kotou2
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭kotou2


    Fatal knife crime in Smethwick, Birm caught on video. London & UK Crime, Twitter.
    And ressuc attempt in comments. RIP.

    Do people think H group are nice and K are not?
    Plenty crime by H, prisons busy. Hardly an admiral bunch. Though admire loyalty Monk getting up north vs power of money other side.

    Yet K are business like, supply, sell, make profit. Dare I say, no other crime apart from power needed in gangland struggles.

    There is mention of boxer shot in Marbella was attempt on DK by GH. Started it. So what they expect.

    Is it fair IF guards appear to side with one group vs other?


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    #3783
    Oceans One
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Oceans One


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    The story goes, that the hutch crew had the backing of the ra, but they **** themselves or were paid off after the regancy, knew the retaliation would be brutal because of byrne been taken out.

    There's nothing to suggest patsy was the first whistleblower, or even that they had evidence of the monk talking about the regancy when with Johnathan to drive him to the north, stuff like that is told threw a source to create paronia and get slip ups.

    Were the 12 names leaked to jaws from a high ranking guard?

    The ra were said to be part of GH/ph crew, tiger crew, big and D3 individuals. Regular meetings were apparently held upstairs in city centre pub near store st. most Fridays. Ph liked a pint in it during the week.
    Any truth to SF Jonathan being shooter of Alan Ryan?


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    #3784
    Paul_Crosby
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Paul_Crosby


    When you guys say "the ra" I assume you mean the Reals?


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    #3785
    Oceans One
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Oceans One


    Paul_Crosby wrote: »
    When you guys say "the ra" I assume you mean the Reals?

    Honestly, i don’t know.
    It could be any one of the groupings


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    #3786
    Stooped
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭Stooped


    DD1518 wrote: »
    It was quiet a gruesome murder and one that's not really mentioned in the gangland killing world. If it was Pk he certainly was sending a message out not to mess with him seems they were easy targets. What is the attraction for these gangsters moving to meath and cavan surely they stand out you know what them places are like the hills have eyes.

    I know in Meath certain towns like Navan can be quite easy to be inconspicuous in


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    #3787
    John_D3
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭John_D3


    Paul_Crosby wrote: »
    When you guys say "the ra" I assume you mean the Reals?

    Yea would have to be reals, certainly wouldn’t be provos


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    #3788
    RoosterCogburn
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭RoosterCogburn


    PaddyK2020 wrote: »
    He's serving 15 years for murder in South Africa.

    Edit : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/5190373/chief-suspect-murders-trial-south-africa/amp/
    He has a brother in Cavan who's a very dangerous individual and involved in the drugs trade


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    #3789
    Paul_Crosby
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Paul_Crosby


    Oceans One wrote: »
    Honestly, i don’t know.
    It could be any one of the groupings

    Well obviously up this side of the border when anybody said THE ra they are always talking about the provisionals, but "The Ra" when mentioned by someone south of the border they seem to usually be referring to the Reals. Like up here the Ryan brothers would never be referred to as "IRA" there would always be a distinction made


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    #3790
    Made in China 2040
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭Made in China 2040


    Oceans One wrote: »
    The ra were said to be part of GH/ph crew, tiger crew, big and D3 individuals. Regular meetings were apparently held upstairs in city centre pub near store st. most Fridays. Ph liked a pint in it during the week.
    Any truth to SF Jonathan being shooter of Alan Ryan?

    You know yourself, who feckin knows, but a english man was suspected, Finn was suspected, Jonathan was never ever mentioned for it.

    The ra down here are referred as the ra, all treated as the one, but obviously aren't as there's so many splinter groups.


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    #3791
    Paul_Crosby
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Paul_Crosby


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    You know yourself, who feckin knows, but a english man was suspected, Finn was suspected, Jonathan was never ever mentioned for it.

    The ra down here are referred as the ra, all treated as the one, but obviously aren't as there's so many splinter groups.

    Seems the Reals have the most influence out of any "Ra" groups down there though, the INLA still have a pretty good sway in some places down there aswell don't they? They did jobs for the Kinahans, very effective killers. I heard there's a "New INLA" group but I don't know what distinguishes them from the old or present INLA


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    #3792
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,617 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    DD1518 wrote: »
    What is the attraction for these gangsters moving to meath and cavan surely they stand out you know what them places are like the hills have eyes.

    Have wondered the same myself.Maybe its just because houses are cheaper there and thats what they can afford, must be lots of them on the lower rungs making a living but not all that rich from crime. Id say its tricky buying a house as a career criminal with no verifiable income. Its probably another good reason to own a small business like a tanning salon, aside from the money laundering aspect it also legitimises them to the banks if they're applying for a mortgage. Or if they're buying for cash the small business is where they'll claim the funds came from to Revenue or CAB.


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    #3793
    TruthHurts1
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭TruthHurts1


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I was astoinished too that they put so much resources into it myself. But I think it has to be seen against the back drop of the political atmosphere at the time back in 2017- the feud was out of control, public anger was rising at how ineffective the Gardai seemed to stop it and Enda Kenny was visiting Sherriff Street making promises.

    One thing though- AFAIK this is the first case in gangland where the Gardai have used bugging devices. They must have broken into the cars to do that and then left them in such a way that there was no evidence of a break in. Its the first time Ive heard of Gardai doing that and tbh I didnt think they had the capability.

    It also begs the question are Gardai bugging the houses of gangland players whenever they have an opportunity to search them with a warrant. It hasnt yet been heard of but it could be a game changer seeing as bugging their burner phones is ineffective.

    It's not the first case. Plenty before.


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    #3794
    TruthHurts1
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭TruthHurts1


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Didnt know about that one. I suppose they could be bugging all around them but not have a need to use it as evidence in court so we dont know the full extent of it.

    Regards blocking mobile phone signals in prisons I read a few years back that its not possible under current EU law. If any country did it then the big telecom companies would take a case and injunct it in the meantime. That might change in the future but as said its also valuable source of info for the Gardai listening in on conversations out of prisons.

    Also not true


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    #3795
    Paul_Crosby
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Paul_Crosby


    TruthHurts1 wrote: »
    Also not true

    Which part? Not bugging phones in prison?


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    #3796
    TruthHurts1
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭TruthHurts1


    Paul_Crosby wrote: »
    Which part? Not bugging phones in prison?

    Not blocking them definitely. Not bugging them probably


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    #3797
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Haladmirer wrote: »
    Cops here have been bugging cars and homes for years.they have the know how and powers from the troubles
    They don't not often use it in court more for info
    I remember reading we are second only to US in terms of cops bugging
    The Guards Go; Hear Hear ,Ear Ear rather than Hello Hello ! !;)


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    #3798
    Haladmirer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Haladmirer


    TruthHurts1 wrote: »
    Not blocking them definitely. Not bugging them probably
    Cops listen in on prison fones
    I know a prison officer who got into it a bit with guy next day PO family member got a verbal warning
    "Tell Jimmy to watch it"
    They had Crim on tape giving order but they chose to do nothing
    PO said **** this it's every man for himself so
    Turns a blind eye now
    And that's why prisons are the way they are


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    #3799
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Have wondered the same myself.Maybe its just because houses are cheaper there and thats what they can afford, must be lots of them on the lower rungs making a living but not all that rich from crime. Id say its tricky buying a house as a career criminal with no verifiable income. Its probably another good reason to own a small business like a tanning salon, aside from the money laundering aspect it also legitimises them to the banks if they're applying for a mortgage. Or if they're buying for cash the small business is where they'll claim the funds came from to Revenue or CAB.

    If they get a mortgage, how would they get mortgage protection? Perhaps they can put “tanning salon owner” as occupation rather than “gangland criminal” but do the banks not use google?
    Also, do they ever bother making a payment - must be quite hard to try to enforce an eviction.


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    #3800
    Oceans One
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Oceans One


    Haladmirer wrote: »
    Cops listen in on prison fones
    I know a prison officer who got into it a bit with guy next day PO family member got a verbal warning
    "Tell Jimmy to watch it"
    They had Crim on tape giving order but they chose to do nothing
    PO said **** this it's every man for himself so
    Turns a blind eye now
    And that's why prisons are the way they are


    They can also get into mobile phones remotely!


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    #3801
    rodmn2377
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭rodmn2377


    Oceans One wrote: »
    They can also get into mobile phones remotely!

    You would have to think they have a field day in mountjoy with all the Kinahans there and the guards station right next door..


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    #3802
    NewMan1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭NewMan1982


    Made in China 2040 wrote: »
    You know yourself, who feckin knows, but a english man was suspected, Finn was suspected, Jonathan was never ever mentioned for it.

    The ra down here are referred as the ra, all treated as the one, but obviously aren't as there's so many splinter groups.

    I don’t know anyone who doesn’t make the distinction? No one confuses any of the dissidents as the provos.


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    #3803
    wiz1001
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭wiz1001


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Have wondered the same myself.Maybe its just because houses are cheaper there and thats what they can afford, must be lots of them on the lower rungs making a living but not all that rich from crime. Id say its tricky buying a house as a career criminal with no verifiable income. Its probably another good reason to own a small business like a tanning salon, aside from the money laundering aspect it also legitimises them to the banks if they're applying for a mortgage. Or if they're buying for cash the small business is where they'll claim the funds came from to Revenue or CAB.

    Self build is a route a few have taken. You can buy a plot reasonably cheaply out there then pay the various trades cash to build it and if any questions are asked by the authorities you can argue you built it with your own hands & got building materials cheaply left over from other jobs etc. Revenue/CAB would suspect its bollocks but hard to prove otherwise.


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    #3804
    Keithlaird
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Keithlaird


    Jizique wrote: »
    If they get a mortgage, how would they get mortgage protection? Perhaps they can put “tanning salon owner” as occupation rather than “gangland criminal” but do the banks not use google?
    Also, do they ever bother making a payment - must be quite hard to try to enforce an eviction.

    If a bank is getting and making money why would they care, did HSBC give a **** when mexican cartels where putting billions through?


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    #3805
    spider baby 172
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭spider baby 172


    Paul_Crosby wrote: »
    When you guys say "the ra" I assume you mean the Reals?
    John_D3 wrote: »
    Yea would have to be reals, certainly wouldn’t be provos

    I always though the Monks original connections with the ra would have been with the provo's?? cigarette smuggling burglaries and all that. in later years there seemed to be connections with the NIRA with Barr and flatcap etc.. I don't think I have ever heard or read about a connection with the reals. I'm not sure tho could be completely wrong


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    #3806
    Paul_Crosby
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Paul_Crosby


    spider baby 172 wrote: »
    I always though the Monks original connections with the ra would have been with the provo's?? cigarette smuggling burglaries and all that. in later years there seemed to be connections with the NIRA with Barr and flatcap etc.. I don't think I have ever heard or read about a connection with the reals. I'm not sure tho could be completely wrong

    Maybe originally back in the day but the provos or whats left of them certainly wouldn't have been involved in the Kinahan Hutch feud


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    #3807
    Haladmirer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Haladmirer


    wiz1001 wrote: »
    Revenue/CAB would suspect its bollocks but hard to prove otherwise.
    CAB don't have to prove otherwise
    CAB say it's proceeds of crime and you have to prove otherwise
    And "I built it meself with leftovers" isn't going to be good enough


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    #3808
    rodmn2377
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭rodmn2377


    As far as I know most of the time they have at least 1 house bought legit.. they have someone with a brain that washes the money and makes it legit and they go and buy there house.. you look anytime there is a big raid there also raiding accounts, solicitors offices to see if they have any dodgy paperwork.. I think the big problem is if they buy more than 1 and also when the gangster gees get involved and start blinging out the gaffs like something off MTV cribs is where they cant explain how they could afford to pimp out the house for another 300k.


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    #3809
    wiz1001
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭wiz1001


    Haladmirer wrote: »
    CAB don't have to prove otherwise
    CAB say it's proceeds of crime and you have to prove otherwise
    And "I built it meself with leftovers" isn't going to be good enough

    You seem to be forgetting that the guys washing some of their money through property also have other legitimate business so it is nowhere near as black and white as you are trying to make out and actually as it is very difficult to prove or disprove either way if you have built/renovated a property yourself, it is true that the materials bit is trickier however a significant cost of any build or renovation is the labour costs. If you had a new house with the majority of building materials legally accounted for, CAB would struggle to get that asset as long as you could prove you had enough income for most of the materials that were used. In a lot of CAB cases they get many assets but not always the main dwelling which on paper is legit or at least legit enough.

    On a slightly different note from main dwellings criminals have used the property renovation rouse for years to wash some of their money, a lot of Liverpool criminals have huge property portfolios from buying wrecks with their own funds and then renovating the wrecks with the proceeds of crime. Think I read somewhere the Monk had a decent property portfolio in Ireland before he sold up and started in the property game overseas. The practice has been common as muck (or tanning salons) with those with cash to wash.


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    #3810
    John_D3
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭John_D3


    spider baby 172 wrote: »
    I always though the Monks original connections with the ra would have been with the provo's?? cigarette smuggling burglaries and all that. in later years there seemed to be connections with the NIRA with Barr and flatcap etc.. I don't think I have ever heard or read about a connection with the reals. I'm not sure tho could be completely wrong

    Originally it would have along with Noel Duggan who was killed in the feud. Though when the ceasefire came a lot who left the provisionals took on the fags game, like Grew etc. Which could connect The Monk to the New Ira. Provisionals make to much money through legitimate business like pubs, taxi ranks, property etc for all they need. Barr and flatcap would have had links to the reals before they all came under the new name of the new ira.

    Provisionals wouldn’t get involved in anything like that to much to lose, look at what happened with Paul Quinn when SA done that, still coming back to haunt them, also was a spilt after Davidson was murdered in Belfast. Few tops heads left and took retaliation on there own as the provos wouldn’t sanction it themselves as to much to lose politically.

    Regancy was a big operation, big numbers involved on the day maybe 10+ also weapons supplied. Id say he needed help out and it was the NIRA


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    #3811
    slowdive74
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭slowdive74


    wiz1001 wrote: »
    You seem to be forgetting that the guys washing some of their money through property also have other legitimate business so it is nowhere near as black and white as you are trying to make out and actually as it is very difficult to prove or disprove either way if you have built/renovated a property yourself, it is true that the materials bit is trickier however a significant cost of any build or renovation is the labour costs. If you had a new house with the majority of building materials legally accounted for, CAB would struggle to get that asset as long as you could prove you had enough income for most of the materials that were used. In a lot of CAB cases they get many assets but not always the main dwelling which on paper is legit or at least legit enough.

    On a slightly different note from main dwellings criminals have used the property renovation rouse for years to wash some of their money, a lot of Liverpool criminals have huge property portfolios from buying wrecks with their own funds and then renovating the wrecks with the proceeds of crime. Think I read somewhere the Monk had a decent property portfolio in Ireland before he sold up and started in the property game overseas. The practice has been common as muck (or tanning salons) with those with cash to wash.
    Formby Hall


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