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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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    #542
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    Absolutely - and to be fair, should have been happening over the last 3 weeks when it was obvious this was going to last longer than the original proposed duration, so they would be ready for tomorrow

    Yes I agree.

    Behind the scenes I would hope plans are being put together for some method of children getting back to classrooms in September.

    Obviously it won't be as before for a while and of course depends on health advice but the department, schools and unions need to have ideas ready and communicated in advance.

    And again, everyone will have to adapt.

    I expect every teacher in the country would love to be back tomorrow and will adapt in any way possible to return safely in September.


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    #543
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    khalessi wrote: »
    Teachers are already adapting some quicker then others. So as you said outside the box thinking is necessary. This is all teachers are asking for a safe way forward.

    It could involve the Dept having to lease buildings to use as temporary classrooms, like they have with hotels as dropdown hospitals. This would be a similar approach to Denmark and help allow smaller class sizes. Daily deep clean of schools all surfaces and teachers encourage social distancing in class through less students, hourly handwashing similar to Denmark, masks if needed and social distancing on the play area or different style play area, such as half the school in one day rainy day play and out the next.

    Having smaller class groups would make some of this easier, the difficulty would be staffing but they could put a call out like what was done for med staff world wide.

    It isnt perfect but it would be a start of ideas to discuss instead of what is worried about, an open the doors theyre back policy, not safe for anyone

    Couldn't agree more.

    One day a week for the children to ensure very small classes, stagerred times, strictly supervised breaktime with no contact - kicking a ball to each other perhaps.

    Many ways to do it but will require thinking and adaptation.

    And not a one size for all policy, allowing local adjustments will help but the overall rules and regulations will have to come from the department.


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    #544
    Greensoup
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭Greensoup


    What everyone could do without is ministers and officials musing in interviews about when schools can go back. Statements today about liking to see schools open and prioritising exam classes are only causing more confusion for parents, students and teachers. Ministers and officials should only make statements when they have concrete plans and not just vague ideas which the media then run with.


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    #545
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    The department are as usual leaving it to schools to decide

    They should have given a few recommendations and suggestions for schools and teachers

    Some schools move slowly to change and many schools are not in a position to do much online teaching


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    #546
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    jrosen wrote: »
    Where do parents turn when they are getting zero from their schools?

    Twinkl
    Every publisher has made ebooks available online
    RTE school hub daily
    Loads of online readers
    Watch a documentary on nature or science or history


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    #547
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    Twinkl
    Every publisher has made ebooks available online
    RTE school hub daily
    Loads of online readers
    Watch a documentary on nature or science or history

    So basically they have to do it themselves? There is no dept area that parents can reach out too? No guidance?


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    #548
    Greensoup
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭Greensoup


    jrosen wrote: »
    So basically they have to do it themselves? There is no dept area that parents can reach out too? No guidance?

    Where is the school? Primary or Secondary?


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    #549
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,216 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    What some of the more critical posters here seem to be missing, is that teachers would love to be back in the classroom. Definitely miss the craic.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #550
    SnowyMuckish
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭SnowyMuckish


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    What some of the more critical posters here seem to be missing, is that teachers would love to be back in the classroom. Definitely miss the craic.

    I’m technically ‘off’ since I’m on maternity, I’m climbing the walls and was looking forward to going back in September before the world turned upside down!


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    #551
    FeirmeoirtTed
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭FeirmeoirtTed


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    What some of the more critical posters here seem to be missing, is that teachers would love to be back in the classroom. Definitely miss the craic.

    What most of the critical posters in here have is a chip on their shoulders about teachers and are looking to vent in a cosy echo chamber.


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    #552
    Murple
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Murple


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    The department are as usual leaving it to schools to decide

    They should have given a few recommendations and suggestions for schools and teachers

    Some schools move slowly to change and many schools are not in a position to do much online teaching

    Actually the department in their ever helpful manner produced a document on the day of the Easter holidays full of suggestions taken from surveys of principals who were asked what their schools were already doing. So basically they wanted to tell us what to do so they asked us what we are already doing and then proceeded to tell us that that’s what we should start doing!!!


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    #553
    starbaby2003
    Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭starbaby2003


    I have already been called a troll but I am genuinely shocked at the majority of teachers posts on this. When I heard the president of the ASTI on the radio last week I couldn’t fathom how someone like that was elected. I FULLY understand now. While the rest of the country has had to either take a reduced pay packet, close down businesses that will probably never reopen try and work a Full time job and care for children the teachers are upset because people are saying they should actually teach during the hours they are being FULLY paid for. You could not make it up. If it wasn’t such a serious situation it would be laughable.


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    #554
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,232 ✭✭✭munster87


    What are teachers doing? Teaching on webcam or just providing work? I used to teach secondary years ago. Couldnt imagine webcam working with the kind of chaps I taught back then!


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    #555
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    The department are as usual leaving it to schools to decide

    They should have given a few recommendations and suggestions for schools and teachers

    Some schools move slowly to change and many schools are not in a position to do much online teaching


    This is where (in my view) the system is breaking down and the frustrations are being felt. Completely different experiences between teachers and schools is difficult - like saying each school would have a different curriculum.

    Every school can adapt. I know plenty of teachers. They are pretty smart people generally and can come up with a unified school approach to addressing the issue for the third term to make it the best one possible given the situation we are all in. Everyone has had to adapt here - we are all going things we would prefer not to have to do - but we adapt and manage !!!

    How many even heard of Zoom 2 months ago ?


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    #556
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    What some of the more critical posters here seem to be missing, is that teachers would love to be back in the classroom. Definitely miss the craic.

    That I have no doubt on. Everyone would prefer to wake up tomorrow morning thinking this was just a bad dream and life returned to ‘normal’

    I am also sure teachers - like all of us- have no interest sitting at home all day with nowhere to go. It’s not like the summer holidays.

    We are all social animals and would much prefer to have interactions in general - whether adult or child.


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    #557
    Scoondal
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    What some of the more critical posters here seem to be missing, is that teachers would love to be back in the classroom. Definitely miss the craic.

    But not in July or August of course.


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    #558
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

    What most of the critical posters in here have is a chip on their shoulders about teachers and are looking to vent in a cosy echo chamber.

    If this comment is directed towards my comments. I can assure you I have absolutely nothing against teachers whatsoever. Believe it or not, most people are way too busy in life to concern themselves with other people’s lives.

    What I have suggested is that there needs to be a level of out of the box thinking on how to make the third term as successful as possible and it be applied across the country as much as possible.

    I think another poster said it perfectly - teaching is much more than content. It’s about the ability to work with kids to get the best out of them. This cannot happen if a teacher sends 1 email to the parents on a Monday morning and radio silence for the rest of the week. And that’s assuming the parents hear from the school at all.

    Absolute kudos to all teachers genuinely making an effort for their students. You are a credit to your profession and to the exceptional reputation teachers in Ireland have had over the years.


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    #559
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    I refuse to do this zoom thing with students I feel no way comfortable with it so don’t see why we should be pressurised into it. Currently using my own mobile phone data to upload and download work, my home internet is far too poor to send pictures etc. I’ve run out of data and my bill will be astronomical next month. Who’s going to foot the cost?

    I have no laptop and using a phone with a cracked screen. My home circumstance mean it’s not possible to record videos unless you want to hear my elderly parents on the phone in the background or the tv/radio blaring all day. They have zero concept of being quiet.

    So who ever here thinks it’s easy for teachers to teach from home I can assure you not everyone has appropriate circumstances.
    I would give anything to get back into the classroom. If only for peace from my parents.


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    #560
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    trapp wrote: »
    I think the content can be delivered remotely.

    What is missing is the ability to interact personally with pupils, motivate them, encourage them, constantly assess and spot mistakes, create an environment that allows them to work to the best of their ability and so on.

    Teaching, at its best, is much more than the content, it's how the pupils are motivated to work with the content. This needs to be in a classroom and in person.

    But alas that is not possible for now so everyone will have to adapt as best they can to online learning and adapt again to return to the classroom in some way once safe to do so.


    This by 1000 times !!!

    And not everything needs to be online either - there are lots of ways to interact these days.


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    #561
    SnowyMuckish
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭SnowyMuckish


    starbaby2003 wrote: »
    the teachers are upset because people are saying they should actually teach during the hours

    But they are teaching my dear....

    Jesus poor Starbaby, I genuinely feel for you....you have one serious chip on your shoulders. You must have had an awful experience somewhere along the lines at school.... maybe a spot of counseling might help? It’s not the same these days...it’s a lovely positive place to be....

    Do you know, you can always up skill if you think teachers have such a great thing going? Here’s the application form for a higher diploma in primary education:https://hiberniacollege.com/start-yo...ication-

    You not in a union? No problem. You can join one. Here......https://www.ictu.ie/joinaunion/

    God bless you pet, stay well x


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    #562
    Scoondal
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    I think that home schooling is going to be more popular in the 2020/2021 school year.
    I have found it rewarding.
    Letting my son (8) lead me by what his interests are. I provide suggestions also. About a quarter of the work is maths/problem solving and words - meaning/spelling/context.


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    #563
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Teach30 wrote: »
    I refuse to do this zoom thing with students I feel no way comfortable with it so don’t see why we should be pressurised into it. Currently using my own mobile phone data to upload and download work, my home internet is far too poor to send pictures etc. I’ve run out of data and my bill will be astronomical next month. Who’s going to foot the cost?

    I have no laptop and using a phone with a cracked screen. My home circumstance mean it’s not possible to record videos unless you want to hear my elderly parents on the phone in the background or the tv/radio blaring all day. They have zero concept of being quiet.

    So who ever here thinks it’s easy for teachers to teach from home I can assure you not everyone has appropriate circumstances.
    I would give anything to get back into the classroom. If only for peace from my parents.

    You do realise you don’t have to be on video during a zoom call ? It can be voice and slides only ?

    If it’s not practical to work from home, you could suggest to the school that it’s opened for a short while each day to allow you work from your classroom. I am sure social isolation is possible in a classroom.

    Everyone has to deal with challenges during this time. Long before this I have taken many a work call with a sick child sleeping on my shoulder. People are very understanding of people’s circumstances

    But what people struggle with is radio silence from teachers or a weekly email and this constitutes going their best !!


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    #564
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    SnowyMuckish wrote: »
    But they are teaching my dear....

    Jesus poor Starbaby, I genuinely feel for you....you have one serious chip on your shoulders. You must have had an awful experience somewhere along the lines at school.... maybe a spot of counseling might help?

    Do you know, you can always up skill if you think teachers have such a great thing going? Here’s the application form for a higher diploma in primary education:https://hiberniacollege.com/start-yo...ication-

    You not in a union? No problem. You can join one. Here......https://www.ictu.ie/joinaunion/

    God bless you pet, stay well x

    Sorry @SnowyMuckish but I have to disagree - both with your comment and the tone of the response. The original comment may have been uncalled for but your reply is down right rude

    Some teachers are working. Others are not. You might think you are all the same - but you are not. If you think sending one email a week constitutes a weeks work then I really feel for your profession.

    We all understand these are challenging times - but your reply has done teachers cause no favours.

    I am bowing out of this discussion - Clearly some people cannot even listen to other peoples experiences and viewpoints. How creative solutions can be adopted is beyond me at this point


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    #565
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    You do realise you don’t have to be on video during a zoom call ? It can be voice and slides only ?

    If it’s not practical to work from home, you could suggest to the school that it’s opened for a short while each day to allow you work from your classroom. I am sure social isolation is possible in a classroom.

    Everyone has to deal with challenges during this time. Long before this I have taken many a work call with a sick child sleeping on my shoulder. People are very understanding of people’s circumstances

    But what people struggle with is radio silence from teachers or a weekly email and this constitutes going their best !!

    Ah, "you do know ", "you do realise", that overused smug phrase beloved of the condescending "experts" on this forum. Unless there are minors for whom you are responsible on the other end of your work calls, then it's not remotely comparable. Even if only audio is used, there can be issues of what a student is exposed to in a live Zoom call. If the teacher can't guarantee that nobody will so much as swear once in the background, then they cannot use live audio or visual teaching.

    And no, school buildings are closed on instruction of the Minister. They were open to staff until lockdown, but not anymore. Maybe they will become available again after May 5th, but as it stands that's not an option.


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    #566
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    You do realise you don’t have to be on video during a zoom call ? It can be voice and slides only ?

    If it’s not practical to work from home, you could suggest to the school that it’s opened for a short while each day to allow you work from your classroom. I am sure social isolation is possible in a classroom.

    Everyone has to deal with challenges during this time. Long before this I have taken many a work call with a sick child sleeping on my shoulder. People are very understanding of people’s circumstances

    But what people struggle with is radio silence from teachers or a weekly email and this constitutes going their best !!

    Be great craic trying to upload a file that large from home. I can’t even upload an Instagram photo on my home WiFi. As for reaching out to each individual child every other day, not practical for me. As cross the week I teach over 100 different students.
    I don’t see the benefit of me reading directly from the book and recording it to send to them.. I teach a subject that doesn’t require much explanation. If it does I just type up the notes and send them that.

    We’re all doing our best, if I’m happy with sending them work once a week and then marking it across the week I don’t see a problem. You have no idea how long it takes to open and download work they send. A class of 30 could take me 4+ hours to download, read and individually reply to. That’s one class.

    Not to mention the eye strain and back pain endured. I was genuinely cross eyed before the Easter break from looking at the phone screen.


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    #567
    Scoondal
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    But what people struggle with is radio silence from teachers or a weekly email and this constitutes going their best !![/QUOTE]

    All I want from my son's teacher is an outline of basic work that should be covered using the class text books. I have received that.
    After that, we will explore subjects that he is interested in.
    My son's teacher is trying to do something called "class dojo". I tried it but it's not something that I have the computer intelligence to use.


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    #568
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »
    Ah, "you do know ", "you do realise", that overused smug phrase beloved of the condescending "experts" on this forum. Unless there are minors for whom you are responsible on the other end of your work calls, then it's not remotely comparable. Even if only audio is used, there can be issues of what a student is exposed to in a live Zoom call. If the teacher can't guarantee that nobody will so much as swear once in the background, then they cannot use live audio or visual teaching.

    And no, school buildings are closed on instruction of the Minister. They were open to staff until lockdown, but not anymore. Maybe they will become available again after May 5th, but as it stands that's not an option.

    @Yosef Stocky Backspace
    so "do you realise" is a banned phrase now? Sorry, it was not something I was informed of previously.
    As for the rest of that phrase, it does not even warrant a reply.

    Reading through this thread this afternoon, what I have found is that everyone has lots of reasons why they cannot engage with students remotely, whether it be swearing on audio to connectivity issues (last two raised as examples), and in parallel have a list of concerns around why schools cannot return due to social distancing, PPE etc (all valid concerns I will add)

    HOWEVER, whether teachers like it or not, solutions need to be found. We cannot have it that schools are closed until a vaccine has been found and rolled out across the world. Teachers (and parents) need to come together and come up with ways how students can be taught in the new world we are living in - whether it be this term or in September (there will be no vaccination program by September)

    All any parent is asking for is a level of engagement from their teachers and if the teachers are not able or willing to support that, maybe the school needs to step in to assist

    And for the record, I never said anything about breaking the current lock-down. I was referred to mechanisms to provide supports post May 5th date.

    Over and out - good luck with whatever comes next.. we will all need it !


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    #569
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Scoondal wrote: »
    My son's teacher is trying to do something called "class dojo"..

    You might find your son has already used something like that in school already - or alternatively they may be more technically savvy than we give them credit for. Those apps are really designs for kids and not us adults :)

    Good luck


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    #570
    starbaby2003
    Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭starbaby2003


    SnowyMuckish wrote: »
    But they are teaching my dear....

    Jesus poor Starbaby, I genuinely feel for you....you have one serious chip on your shoulders. You must have had an awful experience somewhere along the lines at school.... maybe a spot of counseling might help? It’s not the same these days...it’s a lovely positive place to be....

    Do you know, you can always up skill if you think teachers have such a great thing going? Here’s the application form for a higher diploma in primary education:https://hiberniacollege.com/start-yo...ication-

    You not in a union? No problem. You can join one. Here......https://www.ictu.ie/joinaunion/

    God bless you pet, stay well x

    Point proven ......
    I hope you have a better way of engaging with your pupils because your above comments are disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
    I am not going to engage in this thread anymore but I feel very sorry for a pupil looking to you for guidance or leadership. Making a joke about needing counselling ( spelt incorrectly btw) wow, just wow.
    I don’t need to up skill to anything I have a PHD thanks for your concern though.


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    #571
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Xertz wrote: »
    They’re going to have to learn! This is a national crisis and people will just have to adapt.

    My dad, a man in his late 60s, is at home delivering lectures on his laptop. He never had any online teacher training. He fired up Zoom, with very, very minimal technical support (one email) and just got on with it and is working with students by email using his own personal email to deal with questions and assignments.

    People in businesses, healthcare and other areas of life have managed to pull off all sorts of complicated work arounds to keep things going.

    You’ve food on your table every day because people have bent over backwards to keep supply chains running against all the odds.

    There have been huge offers of tech from major multinationals like Google and Apple and local ISPs. There are e-learning experts in all of the universities who have been doing this stuff for years.
    There are programme makers in RTE and elsewhere.

    The department of education can surely absorb cost of delivering materials in some arrangement with An Post. We’ve had no issue doing so with electoral martial or anything else.

    Also it doesn’t have to be that high tech. Photocopies and work sheets are quite usable.

    We seem to have an element here who comes up with 1001 reasons why things can’t be done!

    How effective is his tuition? If he is as you say new to it, i would hazard a guess that it is shįte. But nobody knows and who cares but he’s ‘connected’ so everyone else needs to do the same in the teaching sector. All of sudden, almost overnight face to face education and general pedagogy which has been around for...since the beginning whenever that was, has suddenly been reinvented by those that have absolutely no expertise in the area to new educational theories and pedagogy such as “get on with it” and “stop whining”.

    Some teachers actually care about the standard and quality of their tuition, furthermore they want to make sure it is available to all of their students.


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