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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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    #512
    SnowyMuckish
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭SnowyMuckish


    So back to the original discussion..... will schools be able to reopen in September?


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    #513
    Lemonzero
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Lemonzero


    Pardon.are you being welcoming or sarcastic?


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    #514
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    "You need to stop that as it puts pressure on every 2nd and 6th class teacher. We shouldn't have to give up any time to these over the summer. If the church wants them to go ahead let them sort it out themselves."

    @wirelessdude. thanks for your input but I have no intention of stopping and I really dont care if it puts pressure on other teachers. It's a personal choice which I will be able to facilitate as my own kids can come with me. I have thought these kids for the last 4 years due to how class splits were allocated and I have seen the effort them and their families have put in over the last year to help them prepare for it. By giving up a few hours over the summer (which I now know I will be going nowhere anyway) so the children can celebrate their communion I dont think is much. Plus I have volunteered to do this. My choice.

    Whilst your intentions are admirable it is something that should be discussed in private with the entire staff and board of management. It can impact other staff members who may not be in a position to volunteer in the same way. Volunteering in a work place when other staff members are not is potentially incendiary, this is not my opinion, basic business principle, rule of value etc.

    (It’s taught and not thought by the way)


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    #515
    SnowyMuckish
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭SnowyMuckish


    Lemonzero wrote: »
    Pardon.are you being welcoming or sarcastic?

    There’s always a welcome for old friends...


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    #516
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    I think many teachers are making an effort. I know my niece has has good support online.

    Schools that aren’t trying to support kids remotely really should pull up their socks. There’s plenty of technology and companies volunteering to grant access to it and to support for free. Use it!!

    Droning on about bad internet is an excuse to do nothing. Most households have access to reasonable internet and plenty of course work could be supported by physical post.


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    #517
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    brookers wrote: »
    What do people think of Jennifer O connells piece in irish times, saying look at other countries and kids going back to school. kids are lonely for their friends and putting pressure on parents etc, she got a terrible back lash and she more or less put it down to female writers being attacked. she got a lot of support even from simon harris on twitter basically saying hurlers in the ditch and we need a debate. I wrote her an email and said no way would i send my kids back etc especially in the next couple of months....im surprised at simon harris agreeing with her, she is a features writer, not dr. tony holohan. I did a a bit of a survey amongst other parents and they agreed with me, no way sending kids back so soon. Im not sure if broadcasters and journalists should be pushing an agenda for kids to go back because it probably doesnt suit them to have them at home.

    I did not read the article, and to be honest would not read anything from the Irish Independent !! But blaming the backlash of her opinions on it being a female writer is really more of it. Any male or female can have opinions and people can have different opinions to them, without it being a gender thing. We all need to grow up and accept that most adults can have an open discussion about things.

    Sadly, we appear to struggle to have that discussion in Ireland, without someone crying thats its a gender thing, public v private thing or urban v rural thing..


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    #518
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Xertz wrote: »
    I think many teachers are making an effort. I know my niece has has good support online.

    Schools that aren’t trying to support kids remotely really should pull up their socks. There’s plenty of technology and companies volunteering to grant access to it and to support for free. Use it!!

    Droning on about bad internet is an excuse to do nothing. Most households have access to reasonable internet and plenty of course work could be supported by physical post.

    Who pays for the printing and postage of the physical items?


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    #519
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Xertz wrote: »
    I think many teachers are making an effort. I know my niece has has good support online.

    Schools that aren’t trying to support kids remotely really should pull up their socks. There’s plenty of technology and companies volunteering to grant access to it and to support for free. Use it!!

    Droning on about bad internet is an excuse to do nothing. Most households have access to reasonable internet and plenty of course work could be supported by physical post.

    Two things, technology is a two way system. If it is not available to both parties that can handle the technology it doesn’t work, and it rarely is, hence the birth of ‘tech support’ a while back. There is no tech support in schools that support this situation.

    Secondly, teachers at present are not trained to teach online, this is a very difficult skill to master effectively and takes years of practice and in some cases training.


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    #520
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    They’re going to have to learn! This is a national crisis and people will just have to adapt.

    My dad, a man in his late 60s, is at home delivering lectures on his laptop. He never had any online teacher training. He fired up Zoom, with very, very minimal technical support (one email) and just got on with it and is working with students by email using his own personal email to deal with questions and assignments.

    People in businesses, healthcare and other areas of life have managed to pull off all sorts of complicated work arounds to keep things going.

    You’ve food on your table every day because people have bent over backwards to keep supply chains running against all the odds.

    There have been huge offers of tech from major multinationals like Google and Apple and local ISPs. There are e-learning experts in all of the universities who have been doing this stuff for years.
    There are programme makers in RTE and elsewhere.

    The department of education can surely absorb cost of delivering materials in some arrangement with An Post. We’ve had no issue doing so with electoral martial or anything else.

    Also it doesn’t have to be that high tech. Photocopies and work sheets are quite usable.

    We seem to have an element here who comes up with 1001 reasons why things can’t be done!


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    #521
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    SnowyMuckish wrote: »
    So back to the original discussion..... will schools be able to reopen in September?

    Yes, principals and secretaries of secondary schools are going back in from tomorrow to plan the year ahead.


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    #522
    SnowyMuckish
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭SnowyMuckish


    Nice to get some on topic friendly discussions. Would love to be a fly in the wall in the Department at the moment.....


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    #523
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    Also I plan to be more interactive going forward but again will need parental input. Also as my classes first communion has been cancelled I have offered to help them make it in the summer time if it is possible.

    I think that should be bottom of list of priorities
    Its up to the parish, not school


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    #524
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Yes, principals and secretaries of secondary schools are going back in from tomorrow to plan the year ahead.

    Just voluntary ones? Certainly not happening in the majority of ETB schools.


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    #525
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Sammy2012 wrote: »
    I would have no problem with video calling the children but there is a whole host of things that would need to be ironed out first. Permission from parents first of all. We have no policy for this in our school so it would involve lots of discussion but we will see how things go in the coming weeks.

    This is where all parties need to come together to make this term the best it can be, under whatever circumstances are possible. Policies, permissions etc are all things which can quickly be overcome with the right approach and everyone working as a team. No point spending the next 6 weeks discussing this and have 3 weeks left in term before it gets resolved. Action is needed now to ensure things can be achieved.

    I was speaking to a neighbour the other day, who were involved in the planning of the movement of children from Tallaght Childrens hospital to Crumlin & Temple Street, to make Tallaght available for COVID patients. She said under normal rules, it would have taken over a year for it to happen, whereas this time the ultimatum came from the top and all blockers were removed quickly. And it all happened in a matter of weeks - just by making things happen. The person joked there were people in HSE administration who worked harder in those 6 weeks than the previous 6 years combined !

    We are in unprecedented times. We need to get things done, and do our best to do them to the best quality possible.

    Simple solution is all parents are contacted and asked if they wish to partake in the calls and it is done for those who opt in only. If a parent does not wish to do it, then fair enough - the teacher & school have tried !


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    #526
    shellycub
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭shellycub


    Xertz wrote: »
    They’re going to have to learn! This is a national crisis and people will just have to adapt.

    My dad, a man in his late 60s, is at home delivering lectures on his laptop. He never had any online teacher training. He fired up Zoom, with very, very minimal technical support (one email) and just got on with it and is working with students by email using his own personal email to deal with questions and assignments.

    People in businesses, healthcare and other areas of life have managed to pull off all sorts of complicated work arounds to keep things going.

    There have been huge offers of tech from major multinationals like Google and Apple and local ISPs. There are e-learning experts in all of the universities who have been doing this stuff for years.
    There are programme makers in RTE and elsewhere.

    The department of education can surely absorb cost of delivering materials in some arrangement with An Post. We’ve had no issue doing so with electoral martial or anything else.

    Also it doesn’t have to be that high tech. Photocopies and work sheets are quite usable.

    We seem to have an element here who comes up with 1001 reasons why things can’t be done!

    Very big difference between lecturing adults and teaching children via video chat. Also I think many people overestimate how many suitable devices families have which do not need to be shared.


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    #527
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    SnowyMuckish wrote: »
    So back to the original discussion..... will schools be able to reopen in September?

    @SnowyMuckish - Yes, schools will be able to open in September. Absolutely. Whether all students can return on a full time basis depends on a lot of factors between now and then and how the virus mutates over the summer and the numbers who have contacted it etc.

    Its up to the Dept of Education to finalise a plan with the other departments and unions which will support the schools reopening. As I said before, out of the box thinking may be required, but I am sure everyone is well capable of doing that.

    Its not a question of whether, its more a question of how !


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    #528
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    shellycub wrote: »
    Very big difference between lecturing adults and teaching children via video chat. Also I think many people overestimate how many suitable devices families have which do not need to be shared.

    No one is suggesting 5 hours of constant video education is required - but there needs to be something

    I have just received the 2 page email from one of my girls teachers telling me what needs to be done this week. That's it now until next Sunday - from this point onwards its radio silence, unless something dramatic has changed over the Easter holidays.


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    #529
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Xertz wrote: »

    Droning on about bad internet is an excuse to do nothing. .

    Ah the irony, when posting on an online forum :-)


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    #530
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    No one is suggesting 5 hours of constant video education is required - but there needs to be something

    I have just received the 2 page email from one of my girls teachers telling me what needs to be done this week. That's it now until next Sunday - from this point onwards its radio silence, unless something dramatic has changed over the Easter holidays.

    GnF, just wondering are you sending the work online to be corrected or has that been set up yet?
    Like I said earlier I received similar from the kids teacher. Teacher has now sent an email half hour ago, with next weeks work and a code for a site explaining that the teacher would like the kids to record themselves reading and do a poem and upload their work and artwork and that the teacher will be online for q&a tomorrow, a big step up from before Easter.


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    #531
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Who pays for the printing and postage of the physical items?

    Maybe the parents would? Have they been asked ? Most have paid voluntary contributions to support the school costs during the year. I am sure these are not being incurred when the schools are closed, so maybe there is some funds there?

    Or maybe the local library could be opened for a short while each day to support internet access for teachers without it, or maybe the school could be opened in a similar way.


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    #532
    shellycub
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭shellycub


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    No one is suggesting 5 hours of constant video education is required - but there needs to be something

    I have just received the 2 page email from one of my girls teachers telling me what needs to be done this week. That's it now until next Sunday - from this point onwards its radio silence, unless something dramatic has changed over the Easter holidays.

    I was responding to a post about "having to learn" and using the example of their 60 year old father learning to lecture online which, while very positive, isn't really comparable to teaching young children.

    I do agree with you that your experience isn't on. You should have some way to contact your child's teacher or for your child to contact them. If you email the teacher do they reply?


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    #533
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    khalessi wrote: »
    GnF, just wondering are you sending the work online to be corrected or has that been set up yet?
    Like I said earlier I received similar from the kids teacher. Teacher has now sent an email half hour ago, with next weeks work and a code for a site explaining that the teacher would like the kids to record themselves reading and do a poem and upload their work and artwork and that the teacher will be online for q&a tomorrow, a big step up from before Easter.

    No, one of the girls teachers does this, and she has google classroom set up to receive work back and sends comments back to the student

    The other teacher - sends out the email and silence for the week. She does not have anywhere to send work back to, and says in the email its for the parents use only.

    The girls are a year apart in the same school. The two teachers just have a very different approach to supporting home schooling


    BTW all classes in the school are set up with google classrooms. The parent association purchased a suite of tablets for the school 18 months ago and we all had to sign consent forms for them to be set up with google accounts to use google classroom. They do it in class as well.


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    #534
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    No, one of the girls teachers does this, and she has google classroom set up to receive work back and sends comments back to the student

    The other teacher - sends out the email and silence for the week. She does not have anywhere to send work back to, and says in the email its for the parents use only.

    The girls are a year apart in the same school. The two teachers just have a very different approach to supporting home schooling

    So who is correcting the kids work? You should email the teacher and ask where to email the work for it to be corrected.


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    #535
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    @SnowyMuckish - Yes, schools will be able to open in September. Absolutely. Whether all students can return on a full time basis depends on a lot of factors between now and then and how the virus mutates over the summer and the numbers who have contacted it etc.

    Its up to the Dept of Education to finalise a plan with the other departments and unions which will support the schools reopening. As I said before, out of the box thinking may be required, but I am sure everyone is well capable of doing that.

    Its not a question of whether, its more a question of how !

    Exactly.

    This is so important.

    Going back to school will be very important for our children, this has hit them hard too, no contact with friends in person, no school as they know it, no hobbies etc, possibly difficulties and tension at home.

    But it seems certain schools won't be able to go back as normal for a while anyway so everyone needs to come together to come up with a method that works for now.

    Waiting a year or so isn't really a viable option.

    But outside the box thinking will be required and teachers will have to adapt.

    I'm sure they will but the planning really needs to begin now, not in late August.

    It will be great for everybody for schools to return, in a safe way of course.

    I would say however that for the next while it's possibly going to impossible to have 100% safety anywhere or completely eliminate risk so if parents choose not to send their children to school that will be ok and likewise if teachers feel they can't work due to having vulnerable family that is ok too and substitute teachers could help.

    This will need comprimise and understanding from all parties.

    And I'm sure it will come.


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    #536
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    shellycub wrote: »
    Very big difference between lecturing adults and teaching children via video chat. Also I think many people overestimate how many suitable devices families have which do not need to be shared.

    Again my niece was happily doing a dance class via a normal laptop and her primary teacher has been “checking in” to say hello and do basic lessons online via Zoom without any major issue at all. People are logged in via all sors of devices from big fancy smart TVs to their mam’s cheap android phone but they’re all getting to participate at some level and it’s not perfect but it’s a hell of a lot better than nothing.

    It’s not beyond the realms of possibility ...

    As for adult learning. I don’t see how secondary schools or even the later stages of primary school would be any significantly more challenging for e learning.


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    #537
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    khalessi wrote: »
    GnF, just wondering are you sending the work online to be corrected or has that been set up yet?
    Like I said earlier I received similar from the kids teacher. Teacher has now sent an email half hour ago, with next weeks work and a code for a site explaining that the teacher would like the kids to record themselves reading and do a poem and upload their work and artwork and that the teacher will be online for q&a tomorrow, a big step up from before Easter.

    Really glad your teacher stepped up their game a bit. Its very welcome

    But the big issue is it needs to be consistent for all children across the country !


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    #538
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    trapp wrote: »
    Exactly.

    This is so important.

    Going back to school will be very important for our children, this has hit them hard too, no contact with friends in person, no school as they know it, no hobbies etc, possibly difficulties and tension at home.

    But it seems certain schools won't be able to go back as normal for a while anyway so everyone needs to come together to come up with a method that works for now.

    Waiting a year or so isn't really a viable option.

    But outside the box thinking will be required and teachers will have to adapt.

    I'm sure they will but the planning really needs to begin now, not in late August.

    It will be great for everybody for schools to return, in a safe way of course.

    I would say however that for the next while it's possibly going to impossible to have 100% safety anywhere or completely eliminate risk so if parents choose not to send their children to school that will be ok and likewise if teachers feel they can't work due to having vulnerable family that is ok too and substitute teachers could help.

    This will need comprimise and understanding from all parties.

    And I'm sure it will come.


    Absolutely - and to be fair, should have been happening over the last 3 weeks when it was obvious this was going to last longer than the original proposed duration, so they would be ready for tomorrow


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    #539
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Where do parents turn when they are getting zero from their schools?


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    #540
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    Xertz wrote: »
    Again my niece was happily doing a dance class via a normal laptop and her primary teacher has been “checking in” to say hello and do basic lessons online via Zoom without any major issue at all. People are logged in via all sors of devices from big fancy smart TVs to their mam’s cheap android phone but they’re all getting to participate at some level and it’s not perfect but it’s a hell of a lot better than nothing.

    It’s not beyond the realms of possibility ...

    As for adult learning. I don’t see how secondary schools or even the later stages of primary school would be any significantly more challenging for e learning.

    I think the content can be delivered remotely.

    What is missing is the ability to interact personally with pupils, motivate them, encourage them, constantly assess and spot mistakes, create an environment that allows them to work to the best of their ability and so on.

    Teaching, at its best, is much more than the content, it's how the pupils are motivated to work with the content. This needs to be in a classroom and in person.

    But alas that is not possible for now so everyone will have to adapt as best they can to online learning and adapt again to return to the classroom in some way once safe to do so.


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    #541
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    trapp wrote: »
    Exactly.

    This is so important.

    Going back to school will be very important for our children, this has hit them hard too, no contact with friends in person, no school as they know it, no hobbies etc, possibly difficulties and tension at home.

    But it seems certain schools won't be able to go back as normal for a while anyway so everyone needs to come together to come up with a method that works for now.

    Waiting a year or so isn't really a viable option.

    But outside the box thinking will be required and teachers will have to adapt.

    I'm sure they will but the planning really needs to begin now, not in late August.

    It will be great for everybody for schools to return, in a safe way of course.

    I would say however that for the next while it's possibly going to impossible to have 100% safety anywhere or completely eliminate risk so if parents choose not to send their children to school that will be ok and likewise if teachers feel they can't work due to having vulnerable family that is ok too and substitute teachers could help.

    This will need comprimise and understanding from all parties.

    And I'm sure it will come.

    Teachers are already adapting some quicker then others. So as you said outside the box thinking is necessary. This is all teachers are asking for a safe way forward.

    It could involve the Dept having to lease buildings to use as temporary classrooms, like they have with hotels as dropdown hospitals. This would be a similar approach to Denmark and help allow smaller class sizes. Daily deep clean of schools all surfaces and teachers encourage social distancing in class through less students, hourly handwashing similar to Denmark, masks if needed and social distancing on the play area or different style play area, such as half the school in one day rainy day play and out the next.

    Having smaller class groups would make some of this easier, the difficulty would be staffing but they could put a call out like what was done for med staff world wide.

    It isnt perfect but it would be a start of ideas to discuss instead of what is worried about, an open the doors theyre back policy, not safe for anyone


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