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How will schools be able to go back in September?
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Haven't access to full article, but would guess he's thinking aloud/kite flying. However it does indicate they're aiming for some sort of reopening this year.
With one day a week (for children obviously-staff be in 5) one could keep children apart, in effect dividing each class by 5. Difficult logistically, but we'd manage it...needs must.(Primary)
Educationally would be better than nothing.
However it wouldn't be of huge benefit to working parents (I referenced childcare aspect in an earlier post).
Alternative thinking is required though, and it's good that they're putting options on the table.
As teachers ( and principals) we should be constructive in analysis, and suggesting our own ideas ( I've suggested regional opening here, and elsewhere, previously)
I 100% agree that alternative thinking if required and maybe we need a coordinated plan that applies to all teachers equally and not just on the goodwill of some.
Everyone has had to adapt here. We need education to do the same. For younger primary kids maybe a simple 5 minute check in twice a week and ask them to read a story to them, do some maths with them etc to show some engagement would be a big start. Focus on the 3R’s and what they know the child is weakest at. If the parent does not wish to share details so be it - they have tried. But most are reasonable in this regard
The problem as I see it in general is too many teachers have been radio silent in the 3 weeks prior to Easter and another term of radio silence is an issue for lots. Not taking away from the good work some are doing - it’s not universal even within the same school and too much down to teachers.
I would love to see the teachers (unions) come out with solid proposals on how they can teach somewhat effectively for this term for all classes if the schools cannot open as a counter measure for the 1 day a week proposal. Then there are alternatives to discuss rather than saying the Dept one will not work.
And teachers not having broadband is not an excuse - most schools have it and they can go to their classrooms if required and allow other teachers from schools that don’t have it access facilities as necessary.0 -
wirelessdude01 wrote: »I can imagine my principal if I or any other members of staff tried that. We have no money as it is in the school.
What do you need money for to have a lesson online ? Zoom is free for 40 minutes per call and Google Hangout is free also. I doubt there needs to be military grade secrecy for the material.0 -
wirelessdude01 wrote: »The amount of people who don't realise this is frightening. I always tell my parents at parents night that academic stuff is secondary when it comes to school for me. If they come to school they will pick up bits and pieces but the social side is so so important in primary. Enough time for pressure when they go to big school.
There are lots of ways to educate children. I was brought up with this attitude. So I try to instill it in my own kids and into the kids I teach. I fully believe if you have a good attitude and personality you'll go far in life. I'm reading posts online about parents trying to get kids to sit at the table from 9am until 2pm. There is no way my kids would do this and it is not how things are done in school. For younger kids alot of their learning is oral language based with pics. Sitting at a table making them do worksheets for hours on end is not going to teach them anything. Except put everyone in a bad mood. Go out and go walk, practice some fundamental movement skills (which are seriously lacking in some kids now), talk to them and answer questions, read with and to them. These are all far superior to doing pages in a workbook but somewhere over the last few years these have all been forgotten about!0 -
Great post Snow Garden and so true. I'm loving being home with my kids, going for walks with them, talking about nature, baking with them, teaching them to make sandwiches and do things around the house. There is alot more to education then sitting in a school building.
I agree here to a point. It’s great you are at home and have the ‘free time’ to do this. Others are at home working full time and trying to balance childcare with working full time and also keeping on top of the workbooks sent through by the teachers on a weekly basis.
I am wondering if teachers had to be engaged on video calls for the 5 hours 40 minutes a day, whether you would also have the time to do stuff like this with your kids.
And before you think I am picking on teachers - I am not. It’s just you need to understand that most working remotely and balancing childcare barely have time to say hello to each other never mind do other stuff with their kids. Most/all employers are flexible and understand the situation - but still except the full workload to be done.0 -
There are lots of ways to educate children. I was brought up with this attitude. So I try to instill it in my own kids and into the kids I teach. I fully believe if you have a good attitude and personality you'll go far in life. I'm reading posts online about parents trying to get kids to sit at the table from 9am until 2pm. There is no way my kids would do this and it is not how things are done in school. For younger kids alot of their learning is oral language based with pics. Sitting at a table making them do worksheets for hours on end is not going to teach them anything. Except put everyone in a bad mood. Go out and go walk, practice some fundamental movement skills (which are seriously lacking in some kids now), talk to them and answer questions, read with and to them. These are all far superior to doing pages in a workbook but somewhere over the last few years these have all been forgotten about!
Many parents are trying to balance their own workloads with doing something with the kids - and most are basing it on what the child’s teachers have sent through to them where it happens. The kids school books were sent home with them and once a week we get a list of the pages of each book that is to be done with a few extra projects thrown in for good measure.
I happen to agree with you - but this approach is not what all teachers follow. There is no coordinated approach and everyone is doing different things. The class plan does not work outside the classroom but not everyone understands this.
To all teachers on this - can I ask if any of you have many any contact with the parents in the 3 weeks before Easter and offered a quick call/video call with the child to see how they are getting on ?0 -
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Harris should stop giving interviews to rags musing some opinion or other.
Make the decisions, announce them to everyone with ample time and planning and just STFU in the mean time, it is just causing more confusion.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 70903
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gnf_ireland wrote: »To all teachers on this - can I ask if any of you have many any contact with the parents in the 3 weeks before Easter and offered a quick call/video call with the child to see how they are getting on ?
I teach primary school, I have been online everyday since school closed, uploading work, correcting it, answering quesitons,, a lot of questions and some of them have to do with what we are teaching, chatting to the children explainingm uploading videos from educational sites etc. I would prefer doing this face to face. It has been a lot for 11 and 12 year olds to get used to and I worry about them, school closure, ill family members, what they have missed out on this year in the school community, missing their friends, uploading and downloading tying out answers. We were told no contact with kids to maintain Easter holidays, but I hve checked in everyday in case and messaged the kids who messaged me.
On the otherhand, my children go to a different school, and I was sent an email of work, that was a lot to get through and there have been struggles getting it done on their side and mine, trying to balance it all out. THe contact has been minimal from the teacher and I am hoping it will improve and the workload lessen.0 -
SnowyMuckish wrote: »Teachers like everyone else want life to return to normal, when it is safe and practical to do so. Demonizing teachers here will solve nothing.
Teachers are working hard from home to provide the best support they can for their students under the current conditions.
As for full lessons all day long... yes in a college setting with adults this is practical. With 30 junior infants online all day, how would that work, is someone going to sit beside them at home the entire day to keep their focus?
To be fair no one (or very few) are demonising teachers. Everyone understands the situation we are all in. This is across the entire world, every industry and facet of society.
I have to disagree with you though that teachers are working hard to provide the best support for their students. SOME teachers are absolutely, but a large volume are not. There has been radio silence from a large number of schools and teachers for the 3 weeks before Easter. Others have sent through weekly work sheets and others daily ones. A few (no idea how many but probably 10% based on our school) have been fully engaged. We will see if anything changes tomorrow morning !!
I fully applaud those teacher who are making a genuine effort - but based on the experience of myself and my colleagues & friends, it is the minority. Some colleagues have partners who are teachers and have basically said it allows them to work full time as they have no contact time with students or the school.
So if you and others on here are in the minority - fair play to you and do keep it up. But just because you are doing it, don’t for a second assume all teachers are !!
And no one excepts 5 hours of online lessons per day. But a 10 minute video check in would be fantastic for a junior infant and ask them to write their news or read a few pages or practice their sounds !!0 -
gnf_ireland wrote: »Many parents are trying to balance their own workloads with doing something with the kids - and most are basing it on what the child’s teachers have sent through to them where it happens. The kids school books were sent home with them and once a week we get a list of the pages of each book that is to be done with a few extra projects thrown in for good measure.
I happen to agree with you - but this approach is not what all teachers follow. There is no coordinated approach and everyone is doing different things. The class plan does not work outside the classroom but not everyone understands this.
To all teachers on this - can I ask if any of you have many any contact with the parents in the 3 weeks before Easter and offered a quick call/video call with the child to see how they are getting on ?
I teach 1st and 2nd class. I have been sending out work to them via parents emails since this started. Some parents have been very good at engaging and some have not at all. I sent out an email to all the parent stating if they wanted to contact me they could at anytime of the day or night. I will reply to emails at anytime during the day. Not just during school hours. I am conscious of what work I am giving to try ease stress of parents who are working from home. I can see it from both sides. My husband is working from home and would barely have time to make my own kids lunch if he was looking after them. The work I assign I know the kids can do on their own and I am conscious of not giving too many online resources and using my own parenting knowledge to give tasks that dont require too much parenting input.
But you are right if I had to be available all the time during school hours I would not have time to do everything with my kids but in saying that the school day is shorter than the average working day so I would be able to do lots of things with them. This is one of the perks of my job usually. And I know I am lucky to have this.
Your also right that not all teachers see the bigger picture. I've seen samples of what is expected and it's totally unachievable in my opinion. Also I have fought with my boss over this as they are of the opinion that everyone is at home now so they have lots of time to teach their children which is most definitely not true.0 -
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Also I plan to be more interactive going forward but again will need parental input. Also as my classes first communion has been cancelled I have offered to help them make it in the summer time if it is possible.0
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I teach primary school, I have been online everyday since school closed, uploading work, correcting it, answering quesitons,, a lot of questions and some of them have to do with what we are teaching, chatting to the children explainingm uploading videos from educational sites etc. I would prefer doing this face to face. It has been a lot for 11 and 12 year olds to get used to and I worry about them, school closure, ill family members, what they have missed out on this year in the school community, missing their friends, uploading and downloading tying out answers. We were told no contact with kids to maintain Easter holidays, but I hve checked in everyday in case and messaged the kids who messaged me.
On the otherhand, my children go to a different school, and I was sent an email of work, that was a lot to get through and there have been struggles getting it done on their side and mine, trying to balance it all out. THe contact has been minimal from the teacher and I am hoping it will improve and the workload lessen.
@khalessi ok so you understand very clearly the difference between the engagement by different teachers. Add into this the 3rd model of radio silence or sending a weekly ‘classroom schedule’ of the days lessons broken into 15-20 minute intervals.
Maybe the solution here is to agree how this should work and the engagement level expected from each and every teacher during this period. You appear to be doing your best - and fair play ! But you are the minority.
Maybe something more radical is needed - a suggestion from the unions to close all primary schools a month earlier this year and open them all at the start of August and use the time to see what they can legitimately achieve by then. It’s not like any of us are going on foreign holidays this summer !!!
(Secondary is trickier given leaving cert dates)0 -
gnf_ireland wrote: »The problem as I see it in general is too many teachers have been radio silent in the 3 weeks prior to Easter and another term of radio silence is an issue for lots. Not taking away from the good work some are doing - it’s not universal even within the same school and too much down to tea
To all teachers on this - can I ask if any of you have many any contact with the parents in the 3 weeks before Easter and offered a quick call/video call with the child to see how they are getting on ?
As we speak, my husband, a senior primary teacher is writing individual, personal emails to all of his 29 students, on a Sunday, checking in on them. He spent his Saturday doing preparations for the work he intends to teach this week, despite me begging for him to spend time with his own children.
A friend of mine sent an Post post card to each of her students. Another spent her personal money and left an Easter egg on each of her infant’s doors.
The original question posed in this forum was ‘How will schools reopen in September?’
Positive, constructive, on topic , comments would be welcome and helpful.0 -
I teach 1st and 2nd class. I have been sending out work to them via parents emails since this started. Some parents have been very good at engaging and some have not at all. I sent out an email to all the parent stating if they wanted to contact me they could at anytime of the day or night. I will reply to emails at anytime during the day. Not just during school hours. I am conscious of what work I am giving to try ease stress of parents who are working from home. I can see it from both sides. My husband is working from home and would barely have time to make my own kids lunch if he was looking after them. The work I assign I know the kids can do on their own and I am conscious of not giving too many online resources and using my own parenting knowledge to give tasks that dont require too much parenting input.
But you are right if I had to be available all the time during school hours I would not have time to do everything with my kids but in saying that the school day is shorter than the average working day so I would be able to do lots of things with them. This is one of the perks of my job usually. And I know I am lucky to have this.
Your also right that not all teachers see the bigger picture. I've seen samples of what is expected and it's totally unachievable in my opinion. Also I have fought with my boss over this as they are of the opinion that everyone is at home now so they have lots of time to teach their children which is most definitely not true.
@Sammy2012 thank you for your honesty. I do think it’s important that everyone sees all sides and it’s not a them v us discussion. It most certainly is not.
Regarding the shorter working day - this is something that is not new. I would not call it a perk of the job - it’s a condition of it and one that attracts a lot of people into it in the first place.
Regarding your husband - what if you worked in a similar role ? He would have to take some of the burden. We are all in this together and most employers understand that. I was on a video call last week with the CEO of a client and their 3 year old wandered into the room and climbed up on his knee. He stopped and asked the child to say hello before we all waved and continued on with the call. Everyone understands where we are right now and the challenges we all face.
But fundamentally, many parents may be at home - but we have less time than ever while this is going on. Empathy for others is what we need now more than ever.0 -
gnf_ireland wrote: »What do you need money for to have a lesson online ? Zoom is free for 40 minutes per call and Google Hangout is free also. I doubt there needs to be military grade secrecy for the material.
Did you even read my post? I have patchy mobile data at best and currently no access to fixed broadband0 -
Also I plan to be more interactive going forward but again will need parental input. Also as my classes first communion has been cancelled I have offered to help them make it in the summer time if it is possible.
I have a child in first class. I think a 10 minute individual video call once a week would make a massive difference. I do accept she is quite chatty.
I know tomorrow will be a struggle and an engagement like that would be a big boost to efforts after the Easter break.0 -
I would disagree with gnf Ireland on this and I believe that the majority of teachers are trying to do their best. I know in our school, everybody is pulling their weight(to the best of their ability) Yes, there is a minority, that's a fact, that could be doing more but this whole thing is unprecedented. Anyway, that's my opinion based on my experience and what I see/hear friends & colleagues doing.
Back to the topic, does anyone know if unions, DES etc are involved in negotiations about school re-openings?0 -
Also I plan to be more interactive going forward but again will need parental input. Also as my classes first communion has been cancelled I have offered to help them make it in the summer time if it is possible.
You need to stop that as it puts pressure on every 2nd and 6th class teacher. We shouldn't have to give up any time to these over the summer. If the church wants them to go ahead let them sort it out themselves.0 -
SnowyMuckish wrote: »As we speak, my husband, a senior primary teacher is writing individual, personal emails to all of his 29 students, on a Sunday, checking in on them. He spent his Saturday doing preparations for the work he intends to teach this week, despite me begging for him to spend time with his own children.
A friend of mine sent an Post post card to each of her students. Another spent her personal money and left an Easter egg on each of her infant’s doors.
The original question posed in this forum was ‘How will schools reopen in September?’
Positive, constructive, on topic , comments would be welcome and helpful.
Underlined comment noted.
But maybe, just maybe, if schools think outside their narrow box they will find a way of continuing to provide their usual quality standard of education in a coordinated manner rather than relying on the actions of few good teachers
I will drop off now and take my scolding like the good student I am :-)0 -
I have so much admiration for anyone at home trying to work and manage children. Ive been laid off so for us its allowed my husband to still do his usual work hours from home. Actually he's been working more. It enables me to really focus on the kids and sit with them, keep them focused, try and carve out reading times.
Some of my friends are really struggling with both parents trying to work from home.
Whats become evident is the vast differences in the individual teachers approach and also individual schools approaches. We have some teachers engaged as best they can be and then we have some who have been off work since mid march.
A return to school is going to be made even harder for the kids who's teachers and schools have not been engaged.0 -
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gnf_ireland wrote: »Underlined comment noted.
But maybe, just maybe, if schools think outside their narrow box they will find a way of continuing to provide their usual quality standard of education in a coordinated manner rather than relying on the actions of few good teachers
I will drop off now and take my scolding like the good student I am :-)
:pac: Definitely not scolding, trying to broaden opinions. There is an awful lot of work going on behind the scenes to find practical, safe solutions to teaching. There is no road map or simple straight forward solution, everyone is doing their best. I’ll send you a bandaid so you don’t lick your wounds lol :P0 -
SnowyMuckish wrote: »:pac: Definitely not scolding, trying to broaden opinions. There is an awful lot of work going on behind the scenes to find practical, safe solutions to teaching. There is no road map or simple straight forward solution, everyone is doing their best. I’ll send you a bandaid so you don’t lick your wounds lol :P
And not to labour the point but again some are doing their best and others are far from it. We can agree to disagree on this - no problem at all. Of course every teacher can say they are doing their best. A good test in any job is whether one is willing to stand up at a conference of their peers and honestly state how they engaged with students during this time
Don’t worry. I can take a scolding. I live in the real world. I am fine with being challenged and can have a different opinion on things with others.
I just hope all parties involved in this can put forward decent proposals to move this issue forward and think beyond the current ways of engaging0 -
wirelessdude01 wrote: »You need to stop that as it puts pressure on every 2nd and 6th class teacher. We shouldn't have to give up any time to these over the summer. If the church wants them to go ahead let them sort it out themselves.
Why not?0 -
"You need to stop that as it puts pressure on every 2nd and 6th class teacher. We shouldn't have to give up any time to these over the summer. If the church wants them to go ahead let them sort it out themselves."
@wirelessdude. thanks for your input but I have no intention of stopping and I really dont care if it puts pressure on other teachers. It's a personal choice which I will be able to facilitate as my own kids can come with me. I have thought these kids for the last 4 years due to how class splits were allocated and I have seen the effort them and their families have put in over the last year to help them prepare for it. By giving up a few hours over the summer (which I now know I will be going nowhere anyway) so the children can celebrate their communion I dont think is much. Plus I have volunteered to do this. My choice.0 -
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gnf_ireland wrote: »@Sammy2012 thank you for your honesty. I do think it’s important that everyone sees all sides and it’s not a them v us discussion. It most certainly is not.
Regarding the shorter working day - this is something that is not new. I would not call it a perk of the job - it’s a condition of it and one that attracts a lot of people into it in the first place.
Regarding your husband - what if you worked in a similar role ? He would have to take some of the burden. We are all in this together and most employers understand that. I was on a video call last week with the CEO of a client and their 3 year old wandered into the room and climbed up on his knee. He stopped and asked the child to say hello before we all waved and continued on with the call. Everyone understands where we are right now and the challenges we all face.
But fundamentally, many parents may be at home - but we have less time than ever while this is going on. Empathy for others is what we need now more than ever.
If I worked similar to my husband then yes he would have to do more but it has been this way since we became parents so most of the work falls to me. I dont mind at all but I guess going forward things could have to be very different. If I have to go back to school 5 days he will have to work from home some days as we have no other childcare if creche is closed. My parents are our childminders usually but they are out of the picture now due to underlying conditions but maybe we could find a neighbour who isnt working to look after them some of the days. I wont be making any plans until we hear more from the government however.
I totally understand some parents have less time than ever now. There just isnt enough hours in the day and 5 or 6pm is not the time to be sitting down to start work with kids.
I would have no problem with video calling the children but there is a whole host of things that would need to be ironed out first. Permission from parents first of all. We have no policy for this in our school so it would involve lots of discussion but we will see how things go in the coming weeks.0 -
My kids have got a weekly email from the school with suggested activities.no effort to connect with the kids other than that.I personally think it is very lazy. Internet.connection excellent in this area.teschers can be as defensive as they want but I think it is shocking that no effort is made.I hope that the kids will go.back before the Summer even if it is for a day a week once is regarded safe to do so because 6 months without school has a huge negative impact.This is course once social distancing can be maintaned within the school.And for the poster who wouldnt give up a fee hours during the Summer to assist the second class or 6th class kids doing their commumion and comfirmation is in my opinion not expressing any empathy for the kids who have been devastated that this milestone in their life hasnt gone ahead.we all have to make that effort to see beyond ourselves and see how we can help even if it is a few hours of our time0
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What do people think of Jennifer O connells piece in irish times, saying look at other countries and kids going back to school. kids are lonely for their friends and putting pressure on parents etc, she got a terrible back lash and she more or less put it down to female writers being attacked. she got a lot of support even from simon harris on twitter basically saying hurlers in the ditch and we need a debate. I wrote her an email and said no way would i send my kids back etc especially in the next couple of months....im surprised at simon harris agreeing with her, she is a features writer, not dr. tony holohan. I did a a bit of a survey amongst other parents and they agreed with me, no way sending kids back so soon. Im not sure if broadcasters and journalists should be pushing an agenda for kids to go back because it probably doesnt suit them to have them at home.0
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I didnt read the Jennifer O'connell article myself.
I would be open to the idea of school returning in some format. Im not saying I would send my kids but it would be something I would consider. The devil would be in the details.
That all being said, I would also be content to finish out this school year and start fresh in September.
I think we have to start having some concrete longer term plans rather than this kicking it from week to week.0 -
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Welcome to boards Lemonzero, you registered today and we are graced with your first teacher bashing post....sounds like an original thing to do :rolleyes: .........0
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