Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

yubabill · 01-04-2020 3:58pm

Holding judgement on the 20mill phone accounts lost wrt coronavirus. Intriguing, though.

Would love to know the report Cass saw which was withdrawn/disappeared with large numbers of losses/infections.

Cass · 01-04-2020 4:36pm

It was a video and i cannot find it for love nor money. Checked my watch, browsing history and can find the link but the video is gone.

It was a Chinese national TV broadcast and during the broadcast the figures of those infected and dead disappeared from the screen and when thy were put back up, about 8 seconds later, the figures were less than half of what they were.

China is in CYA mode. Between deflecting blame, trying to have people stop calling it the Chinese/China virus and then withholding any sort of live update on actual figures coupled with the propaganda videos of "business as usual" it's a mockery and anyone that believes they went from thousands of new cases per day to 0 overnight needs their head examined. It's a state owned and controlled media. Hell you cannot even get outside social media in China so that should tell you all you need to know about their "openness".

tudderone · 01-04-2020 8:01pm

Well one of the covid19 whistleblower doctors, Dr. Ai Fen, has disappeared into the proverbial thin air. Wonderful place China, the troublesome and embarrasing can be made to vanish like a conjuring trick.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/whistleblowing-coronavirus-doctor-mysteriously-vanishes/

Grizzly 45 · 01-04-2020 9:14pm

Nope! She is still there and doing podcasts.It was a NYP bullsht news story.No wonder Pres Trump calls the MSM Fake news.

yubabill · 01-04-2020 9:52pm

Cass wrote: »

It was a video and i cannot find it for love nor money. Checked my watch, browsing history and can find the link but the video is gone.

It was a Chinese national TV broadcast and during the broadcast the figures of those infected and dead disappeared from the screen and when thy were put back up, about 8 seconds later, the figures were less than half of what they were.

China is in CYA mode. Between deflecting blame, trying to have people stop calling it the Chinese/China virus and then withholding any sort of live update on actual figures coupled with the propaganda videos of "business as usual" it's a mockery and anyone that believes they went from thousands of new cases per day to 0 overnight needs their head examined. It's a state owned and controlled media. Hell you cannot even get outside social media in China so that should tell you all you need to know about their "openness".

I believe you, Cass.

You are making an assertion of what you saw, like if you said you saw a UFO over your house - but, as someone whose job in part is detecting patterns in raw data, the Chinese figures on coronavirus bear almost no resemblance to reality. This makes me believe what you are saying over the Chinese government.

What makes me sick is the thought of "Dear Leader" Leo phoning up PRC to thank them for selling us gloves and masks at full retail.

Bit like thanking Angela for loaning us the bailout money at % interest to pay off unsecured insolvent German bank bondholders.

Deutsche Bank is going to get some karma from corona.

yubabill · 02-04-2020 8:51am

OK, on the China cellphone thing the guy in the vid below (where I originally heard about the thing) says that there are many more phone a/cs in China than people, as many have more than one sim.

So he says could be that the lockdown caused many people to close second/third sim.

Same guy also makes plausible arguments for corona deaths in China of around 30k, after normal deaths taken out from a figure of c.40k deaths for the period.

He explains it better than me.

Channel is called China Uncensored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFftsn6izic

Grizzly 45 · 02-04-2020 12:17pm

yubabill wrote: »

I believe you, Cass.

What makes me sick is the thought of "Dear Leader" Leo phoning up PRC to thank them for selling us gloves and masks at full retail.

.

Can we get a refund if that stuff is sub standard or contaminated with Corona,as the Dutch found with their masks and the Brits with their corona kits??
Or will we just bow & scrape and carry on???

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-netherlands-recalls-defective-masks-bought-from-china/a-52949216

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1262747/coronavirus-testing-kits-contaminated-covid-19

tudderone · 02-04-2020 1:21pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Can we get a refund if that stuff is sub standard or contaminated with Corona,as the Dutch founfd with their masks and the Brits with their corona kits??
Or will we just bow & scrape and carry on???

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-netherlands-recalls-defective-masks-bought-from-china/a-52949216

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1262747/coronavirus-testing-kits-contaminated-covid-19

People have being saying for decades now that shipping your manufacturing industries to China to make a quick buck, would eventually comeback and bite you on the ass. They were right.

tudderone · 02-04-2020 1:52pm

Bankers in the Uk being their usual vampire selfs. How long, if not already will our lot follow suit ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2laLKyJcgdo

tudderone · 02-04-2020 9:54pm

My reponse would be, get your own house in order before looking to meddle in anyone elses country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zPdPIGmMmM

Grizzly 45 · 03-04-2020 1:18pm

Gotta say,the Chinese panda in cheif has a WONDERFUL sense of humour!:D:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 03-04-2020 2:39pm

tudderone wrote: »

People have being saying for decades now that shipping your manufacturing industries to China to make a quick buck, would eventually comeback and bite you on the ass. They were right.

And sure enough!!!! Just call me Cassandra!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/paschal-donohoe-says-ppe-from-china-is-not-standard-for-irish-health-service-991987.html?fbclid=IwAR0bCYBvJNOIQlXvZEtmOODypiSza0_jIoQm3wroGXE6jy1-6k85U3_girU

yubabill · 03-04-2020 7:08pm

Just to say, with another 400-odd new cases of Corona here today, on top of 400-odd yesterday, I'm still calling it the top of a flat curve wrt new cases.

I would have stretched it to 500 new cases per day before reconsidering.

But there is a niggling detail that could throw a spanner in the works - we just aren't testing enough.

Russia, with a relatively small incidence of the virus is apparently running 100,000 tests per day - they will be on top of this whatever happens, at that rate.

At the moment, the US incidence of new cases looks very disturbing.

Grizzly 45 · 03-04-2020 9:48pm

Guy shooting a full auto Glock,colanders his hand. With their very high rate of fire,and short barrels,they are not controllable and you do need some sort of foregrip to keep your weak hand from getting "holey". The czechs had the right idea with their version of the select fire CZ 75.Use an inverted spare mag as a foregrip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=43&v=11fcg543Jow&feature=emb_title

tudderone · 03-04-2020 10:38pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Guy shooting a full auto Glock,colanders his hand. With their very high rate of fire,and short barrels,they are not controllable and you do need some sort of foregrip to keep your weak hand from getting "holey". The czechs had the right idea with their version of the select fire CZ 75.Use an inverted spare mag as a foregrip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=43&v=11fcg543Jow&feature=emb_title

And then turns around and sweeps across the others with a loaded pistol. Didn't Beretta do a 92 with a small foldable foregrip and 3 round burst ?

Edit, it was a 93r.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JALH0gQa8gY

Cass · 03-04-2020 11:58pm

yubabill wrote: »

Just to say, with another 400-odd new cases of Corona here today, on top of 400-odd yesterday, I'm still calling it the top of a flat curve wrt new cases.

You've a good head on your shoulders so you might be able to explain something to me that i read in the Times or Indo the other day, as i'm having a blond moment.

These figures are purely for show with no actual data sets to support them. This is how the Government are showing that "their" efforts are working.

They are claiming the rate of new cases is slowly, but steadily dropping. What they fail to highlight is they are going on new cases as a percentage of the total amount of conformed cases.

So in the start with say 20 cases on day one and 40 on day two they claim a 100% increase. However as the weeks go on the percentage is dropping but looking at the new cases as a percentage of the confirmed case total its barely above double digits in terms of percentage, yet its hundreds of new cases a day.

This is what i mean:

Day one, 20 cases.
Day two, 40 cases, so 100% increase.
Day three, 60 cases, so 50% increase.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Day ten, 250 cases, 57% increase
.
.
.
.
Day 15, 1050 cases, 41% increase
.
.
.
.
Day 20 1,600 cases, 27% increase
Day 21, 1830 cases, 25% increase
Day 22, 2,100 cases, 17% increase
Day 22, 2,500 cases, 14% increase

So even though the rate of new cases is rising, to almost 400 per day, they show the rate of infection as a percentage and that its dropping.

To me that is a lie and/or misleading.

Russia, with a relatively small incidence of the virus is apparently running 100,000 tests per day - they will be on top of this whatever happens, at that rate.

I seen that figure and it's being touted by a lot of countries. The problem i see is with Germany, the UK, France, etc. all with populations over 60 million, 100,000 a day means almost two years until everyone is tested.

Larger population countries, if they are or intend to hold to this number, are f**ked. Could be looking at a decade or more. So obviously not very practical.

Then look at Ireland. According to a recent article which shows where your local test centre is you cannot simply walk up and be tested. You must show symptoms/signs of the virus, then get a referral from your GP before you can go for testing.

At the moment, the US incidence of new cases looks very disturbing.

Its hard to tell. 5 days ago it was reported as just under 100,000 cases, now it's closer to 300,000, with between 35 - 50% of the entire country's cases in New York state alone.

Secondly what are the factors they use to determine a covid-19 death. If someone with say, pure example but use any other condition, a heart condition passes during this pandemic is it recorded as a covid-19 related death if the person tests for covid-19 "markers", but was asymptomatic?

Cass · 04-04-2020 12:04am

By the by, and without making light of the current situation, the figures being shown by the media are not helping to calm people.

America shows 274,000 confirmed cases, 12,000 recovered, and 7,204 dead.

The media show the deaths, and nothing else. Why not say that some 267,000 tested positive but were asymptomatic or little complications, along with the 12,000 recovered figure?

yubabill · 04-04-2020 4:32am

Cass wrote: »

You've a good head on your shoulders so you might be able to explain something to me that i read in the Times or Indo the other day, as i'm having a blond moment.

These figures are purely for show with no actual data sets to support them. This is how the Government are showing that "their" efforts are working.

They are claiming the rate of new cases is slowly, but steadily dropping. What they fail to highlight is they are going on new cases as a percentage of the total amount of conformed cases.

So in the start with say 20 cases on day one and 40 on day two they claim a 100% increase. However as the weeks go on the percentage is dropping but looking at the new cases as a percentage of the confirmed case total its barely above double digits in terms of percentage, yet its hundreds of new cases a day.

So even though the rate of new cases is rising, to almost 400 per day, they show the rate of infection as a percentage and that its dropping.

T
Secondly what are the factors they use to determine a covid-19 death. If someone with say, pure example but use any other condition, a heart condition passes during this pandemic is it recorded as a covid-19 related death if the person tests for covid-19 "markers", but was asymptomatic?

It's a more precise way of reporting the data - it gives an immediate summary of where we are at the present point in time.

The y are using this method to try and work out when the surge is coming (hopefully it won't come).

I am concentrating on the daily increase figure and using the graphs of same provided on the Johns Hopkins arcgis website, which helps keep track of the same information in a less succinct, but easier to digest way (for me, anyway).

Any covid deaths are worse than tragic - this is an atrocity - but the media thrives on the sensational.

How the cause of death is determined is open to manipulation.
The recorded number of infections is open to manipulation.

China is accused of both the above.

Here, we probably can have a good degree of trust in the first, but the second is not believed 100% accurate anywhere, due to testing rates rather than manipulation.

Savage93 · 04-04-2020 7:22pm

Cass wrote: »

You've a good head on your shoulders so you might be able to explain something to me that i read in the Times or Indo the other day, as i'm having a blond moment.

These figures are purely for show with no actual data sets to support them. This is how the Government are showing that "their" efforts are working.

They are claiming the rate of new cases is slowly, but steadily dropping. What they fail to highlight is they are going on new cases as a percentage of the total amount of conformed cases.

So in the start with say 20 cases on day one and 40 on day two they claim a 100% increase. However as the weeks go on the percentage is dropping but looking at the new cases as a percentage of the confirmed case total its barely above double digits in terms of percentage, yet its hundreds of new cases a day.

This is what i mean:

Day one, 20 cases.
Day two, 40 cases, so 100% increase.
Day three, 60 cases, so 50% increase.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Day ten, 250 cases, 57% increase
.
.
.
.
Day 15, 1050 cases, 41% increase
.
.
.
.
Day 20 1,600 cases, 27% increase
Day 21, 1830 cases, 25% increase
Day 22, 2,100 cases, 17% increase
Day 22, 2,500 cases, 14% increase

So even though the rate of new cases is rising, to almost 400 per day, they show the rate of infection as a percentage and that its dropping.

To me that is a lie and/or misleading.

I seen that figure and it's being touted by a lot of countries. The problem i see is with Germany, the UK, France, etc. all with populations over 60 million, 100,000 a day means almost two years until everyone is tested.

Larger population countries, if they are or intend to hold to this number, are f**ked. Could be looking at a decade or more. So obviously not very practical.

Then look at Ireland. According to a recent article which shows where your local test centre is you cannot simply walk up and be tested. You must show symptoms/signs of the virus, then get a referral from your GP before you can go for testing.

Its hard to tell. 5 days ago it was reported as just under 100,000 cases, now it's closer to 300,000, with between 35 - 50% of the entire country's cases in New York state alone.

Secondly what are the factors they use to determine a covid-19 death. If someone with say, pure example but use any other condition, a heart condition passes during this pandemic is it recorded as a covid-19 related death if the person tests for covid-19 "markers", but was asymptomatic?

The large testing backlog may well be masking the actual figures.

Grizzly 45 · 04-04-2020 10:03pm

tudderone wrote: »

And then turns around and sweeps across the others with a loaded pistol. Didn't Beretta do a 92 with a small foldable foregrip and 3 round burst ?

Edit, it was a 93r.

And it's an actual "bastard" of a system.As it also has a detachable stock a foregrip and weighs a half again as the normal 92 R.So why not just tote a HK,mini UZI or micro UZI ,CZ Skorpion, or the like PDW under your jacket and have a decent gun that can be fired one handed[wobbly] if need be and actually has a proper stock and foregrip? The "machine pistol" concept has always sufferd from this problem,or being a solution to a problem no one really has had.The rate of fire on these pistols is ridicilous,which gives no accruacy past the 3rd shot,unless you have a shoulder stock,or rest of some type.Which knocks the concept of a pistol out the window.IE a small sidearm that is comfortable to carry,as you now need a stock and foregrip to control this thing. Even with 3round burst they are rubbish.Check out The gun Jesus clip on YT of the HK V90ZP ,its utter pants in the accruacy dept.

The only place I could see it being of any practical use would be if you were a driver on a bodygaurd team,and you needed this to lay down covering fire,if your vechicle was knocked out while the rest of the team disembarks with the client for a backup vechicle.As your main job is driving the car and not protecting the client,having somthing like this that could lay down FA for a few secs might be enough to keep your attackers head down,and is small enough for a shoulder rig.So you are not groping for it when things go to shte.
Anyway else, they are ammo eating fun toys.

yubabill · 05-04-2020 10:48am

Well, well - said earlier that WHO chief Ghebreyesus was appointed following China's backing.

Turns out he's not a medical doctor.

He has a BSc in biology from an Eritrean uni, MSc in immunology from UL and PhD in Community Health from U. Notts. But NOT a medic.

https://www.who.int/antimicrobial-resistance/interagency-coordination-group/dg_who_bio/en/

Lots more juicy allegations in this vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPSlqF5pjrw

Grizzly 45 · 05-04-2020 1:53pm

Not to mind being sympathetic to a Maoist terrorist group in Ethopia who were into abit of genocide as well.Appointing Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador,and inviting the Russians to test for TB.

https://www.politico.eu/article/tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-gives-who-a-headache/
But lets not go that far.Our hero on the Corona epidemic here Dr T Holohan seems to be forgiven in a hurry for his doings with the cancer cervical smear check ballsup last year by the Irish people?

tudderone · 05-04-2020 2:23pm

It seems that the theory of this dreadful virus escaping from a lab in Wuhan is not the science fiction we were told it was either. No one is saying it was released deliberately, but it looks like someone working there was infected and thats how it started.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/

yubabill · 05-04-2020 7:11pm

tudderone wrote: »

It seems that the theory of this dreadful virus escaping from a lab in Wuhan is not the science fiction we were told it was either. No one is saying it was released deliberately, but it looks like someone working there was infected and thats how it started.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/

And on that subject, here's a video from Ezra Levant showing the Chinese research article blaming the lab for coronavirus AND the guy who might have started it all by going all over China harvesting bat viruses and bringing them back to the lab in Wuhan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUo1w5aSkro

yubabill · 07-04-2020 4:57am

Fox News report says Sen. Rick Scott calling for investigation into WHO/Coronavirus. Says in vid that Dept Homeland Security has agreed to investigate (taking that with a pinch of salt for now).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA7-3ycAS1I

Birdnuts · 07-04-2020 4:27pm

yubabill wrote: »

Fox News report says Sen. Rick Scott calling for investigation into WHO/Coronavirus. Says in vid that Dept Homeland Security has agreed to investigate (taking that with a pinch of salt for now).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA7-3ycAS1I

The current head of the WHO got the job with heavy backing from the Chinese - the fact that last year the WHO approved the use of Chinese quack medcine should have raised a red flag for anyone with knowledge of the subject

yubabill · 08-04-2020 1:23am

Trump putting a hold on US money to WHO, talking about investigation into its handling of coronavirus.

US contributes c.20% of WHO funds, China gives c. 1%.

Chinese nationals head 4 out of 15 UN institutions.

The Chinese have been accused of pursuing a selfish political policy in various global orgs.

Video is Sky Australia, Trump talking about WHO money;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6VgwvF4h-g

While I'm here, still think we are at the top of a flat curve wrt coronavirus, daily new cases consistently between 3 and 400.

Should explain what I mean by the top of a flat curve - imagine the top of your body is from one shoulder to the other, across the top of your head.

Statistics usually employ the meaning as being from 80% to 100% back to 80% (80% = first shoulder...100%=head...back to 80% for opposite shoulder). Edit: Please don't hold me to these figures, been back to Johns Hopkins corona tracking and I was going 50%;100%;50% as the top.
Looking at Italy's figures, I'm guessing we should be back to 200 daily new cases in about 10 days, all going well.
But the testing rate is always the elephant in the room...
Think the lockdown will be extended, looking at the figures above, was hoping they might be eased after the Easter.

BattleCorp · 08-04-2020 12:54pm

yubabill wrote: »

Think the lockdown will be extended, looking at the figures above, was hoping they might be eased after the Easter.

If we ease up on the restrictions in the next few weeks, we'll get a second wave of the virus.

I can't see them easing up for a month or two at least. And even then it will be a phased easing. I'd say no pubs till the middle of the Summer. No school til the Autumn. Some businesses opening up slowly with strict social distancing measures in place. But again, none of that for a month or two at least.

Grizzly 45 · 08-04-2020 1:16pm

The antidote ,possibly around this time next year.Ditto international travel

The big teller will be the Leaving cert.If they write it off...Well get comfy folks because we are in for a long year ahead with each others company.:eek:

Nov will be the biggie ,as an acid test of democracy here.The emergency powers have to be either abolished ,or renewed...Guess where my money will be?As well as the US presidential election in the same month.

If they insist on it going ahead in June.Some sort of normality again by August.
Intresting times indeed.

Mellor · 08-04-2020 1:33pm

Cass wrote: »

China - The BIG ONE. I don't believe, not for a fraction of a second, that there have been no new cases in China. They went from thousands of new cases per day to none (0), OVERNIGHT.

Overnight, no that didn't happen. It took 3 weeks ofr daily numbers to drop from 1000+ to under 50.

I don't trust the chinese numbers, and have criticised the Iranian stats since the start. But I don't think we should be going down the nonsense round in return.
People are starting to believe and repeat all sorts of nonsense, just because it fits their agenda.

yubabill wrote: »

Just to say, with another 400-odd new cases of Corona here today, on top of 400-odd yesterday, I'm still calling it the top of a flat curve wrt new cases.

It's still more cases that last saturday, and more than a week ago, I'd want to see a drop on last weeks numbers before I started to think it was a flattened curve.

yubabill wrote: »

It's a more precise way of reporting the data - it gives an immediate summary of where we are at the present point in time.

It's a accurate way to report the data.
But it's completely disingenuous to present it as a slowing rate of growth, when the daily increase was still increasing.

yubabill wrote: »

Turns out he's not a medical doctor.

He has a BSc in biology from an Eritrean uni, MSc in immunology from UL and PhD in Community Health from U. Notts. But NOT a medic.

A immunologist is probably ore suited to the role that a GP.

Fox news wouldn't get a look in.

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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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