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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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Comments

  • #1802
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Let the big American companies away with it, means f**k all difference to Ireland and it keeps the nation employed

    Added advantage is that it pi**es off the rest of Europe

    I said it before and will say it again, the people that complain about the American corporation are the people who can’t get a job in them :-)

    Do I give a cr*p if Apple or whoever push every penny they make in Europe via a Ireland office so they have to pay less tax? No I don’t...what I care about is the thousand of jobs they provide and all the rest of these companies...

    I hope the government and Apple win, then f**k the begrudges, at home and abroad!!!


  • #1803
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Jesus

    Ive heard it all now....equating apple to the chief of staff of the provos

    It’s all blanch can do. Limited redundant circular nonsense


  • #1804
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Let the big American companies away with it, means f**k all difference to Ireland and it keeps the nation employed

    Added advantage is that it pi**es off the rest of Europe

    I said it before and will say it again, the people that complain about the American corporation are the people who can’t get a job in them :-)

    Do I give a cr*p if Apple or whoever push every penny they make in Europe via a Ireland office so they have to pay less tax? No I don’t...what I care about is the thousand of jobs they provide and all the rest of these companies...

    I hope the government and Apple win, then f**k the begrudges, at home and abroad!!!

    Is it not incredibily short-sighted to build our econmy around what is essentially a tax-evasion scheme??



    Like what happens if america introduces laws to encourage repatriation,or another eurozone country undercutz us?

    And its increasingly likely even before covid crisis the eu was getting ready to clamp.down on this,quite why we should facititate a company to pay 0.05% tax on its eu revenue,while effectively damning everyone in the eu to.austrity for only 8K jobs here??


  • #1805
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is it not incredibily short-sighted to build our econmy around what is essentially a tax-evasion scheme??



    Like what happens if america introduces laws to encourage repatriation,or another eurozone country undercutz us?

    And its increasingly likely even before covid crisis the eu was getting ready to clamp.down on this,quite why we should facititate a company to pay 0.05% tax on its eu revenue,while effectively damning everyone in the eu to.austrity for only 8K jobs here??

    You do know that FDI companies employ 200k people in Ireland. They promote education, world class laboratories, world class training and probably multiples of ancillary employment.

    CSO sets it out here. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-fdi/foreigndirectinvestmentinireland2017/ae/


  • #1806
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »
    Well unless you're on the ECJ bench or an A-G there, then your thoughts and opinions are pretty much irrelevant.

    No ones opinions are irrelevant. We should constructively challenge everything we come across. Saying someone’s opinion is irrelevant is counter productive.


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  • #1807
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    You do know that FDI companies employ 200k people in Ireland. They promote education, world class laboratories, world class training and probably multiples of ancillary employment.

    CSO sets it out here. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-fdi/foreigndirectinvestmentinireland2017/ae/

    We are specifically talking about apple,but way to.move goalposts


    But you do highlight a fundamental flaw of over reliance on assisting tax evasion,.

    Will we even get 15 more years out of current situation???,
    or will we wait until whole thing comes crashing down and everyone whinge about it,instead of taking proactive measures now


  • #1808
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,284 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    joeguevara wrote: »
    You do know that FDI companies employ 200k people in Ireland. They promote education, world class laboratories, world class training and probably multiples of ancillary employment.

    CSO sets it out here. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-fdi/foreigndirectinvestmentinireland2017/ae/

    And have a mercenary attitude to paying their dues and a suspect attitude to proper community responsibility.

    Apple have ferreted away 200 billion in cash alone not to mention other assets. Is that proper in the world we live in? What is the point of that exactly?

    Have some responsibility to the places that allow you make that kind of profit is all that is being asked.


  • #1809
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    It’s like trump signing off on a order for General Motors to stop making cars and start making ventilators - that’s fine looks like he is calling the shots but in reality how long is it going to be before a company that’s makes cars will be able to successfully make a ventilator then start production on it - the pandemic will be long gone again that happens.


    Critism.for.sake of critism there....never ends well for anyone

    Seat (also a car manufacter) in spain are making ventilators already

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2020/03/31/business/international/seat-manufacturing-plant-making-ventilators/amp


  • #1810
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We are specifically talking about apple,but way to.move goalposts


    But you do highlight a fundamental flaw of over reliance on assisting tax evasion,.

    Will we even get 15 more years out of current situation???,
    or will we wait until whole thing comes crashing down and everyone whinge about it,instead of taking proactive measures now

    I didn’t move the goalposts. It was stated that the system only provided 8k jobs, I showed otherwise.

    What proactive measures would you suggest? Tax them, let them mov, lose everything...or do you have something to suggest?


  • #1811
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    And have a mercenary attitude to paying their dues and a suspect attitude to proper community responsibility.

    Apple have ferreted away 200 billion in cash alone not to mention other assets. Is that proper in the world we live in? What is the point of that exactly?

    Have some responsibility to the places that allow you make that kind of profit is all that is being asked.

    Does providing jobs, security, pensions, training, charity, etc not help Ireland. What do you suggest they do?


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  • #1812
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is it not incredibily short-sighted to build our econmy around what is essentially a tax-evasion scheme??

    No
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Like what happens if america introduces laws to encourage repatriation,or another eurozone country undercutz us?
    America already doing this....

    UK already talking about it
    Deleted User wrote: »
    And its increasingly likely even before covid crisis the eu was getting ready to clamp.down on this,quite why we should facititate a company to pay 0.05% tax on its eu revenue,while effectively damning everyone in the eu to.austrity for only 8K jobs here??

    8k jobs?

    I am talking about all american companies, Apple/Dell/Intel/IBM/HP etc etc. How many jobs is that?

    Everyone in EU to austrity? what are you talking about? If the EU can undercut us and do the exact same they would. They can't. We have an advantage and some people want to hand this advantage back....talk about shooting yourself in the foot


  • #1813
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    I didn’t move the goalposts. It was stated that the system only provided 8k jobs, I showed otherwise.

    I was on.about apple and their 8K jobs,but easy to lose in text i guess
    What proactive measures would you suggest? Tax them, let them mov, lose everything...or do you have something to suggest?

    Develop our own econmy and industry more here,increase tax rate (even a 50% increase leaves us in bottom 6 iirc in the eu) and ringfence said revenue to develop our native industry - potentially use native industry to begin making drugs recently out of patent and corner that market with competitevly priced drugs,and trade on reputation of excellence,same as our agri goods (reputation built up through proper training etc on pharma end)

    no reason we cant be ahead of curve here,as for apple/IT jobs in general,a free trade deal witg indua could easily wipe us out there,the over reliance of a handful of conpanies using use for a tax base is incredibly short-sighted


  • #1814
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    No


    America already doing this....

    UK already talking about it



    8k jobs?

    I am talking about all american companies, Apple/Dell/Intel/IBM/HP etc etc. How many jobs is that?

    Everyone in EU to austrity? what are you talking about? If the EU can undercut us and do the exact same they would. They can't. We have an advantage and some people want to hand this advantage back....talk about shooting yourself in the foot

    You are deluded beyond reproach if you think it is prudent to base econmy on assisting tax evasion....no different in tunnel vision than a plumber circa 2007 with 6 houses

    Its going to end terribly,we should be using this time to get ahead of diaster not basing econmy around it


    (God help.you...if ya dont think the whole.eu is looking at austrity after this crisis)


  • #1815
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    You can see the moment he’s realizing he’s put his foot in it In a bigger way than ever before and has no way to back pedal.

    Apparently we’re not ‘all in this together’

    Fine fvkin gael. Only thing they can be relied on to do is consistently let the mask slip


    https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1245795488466640899?s=21


  • #1816
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,284 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Does providing jobs, security, pensions, training, charity, etc not help Ireland. What do you suggest they do?

    Yes, of course it does. But how far do we lean over?

    Everyone pays their fair share or we all get byes and veto's and opt outs. There is a happy medium here...we aren't looking to fleece these corporations.


  • #1817
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I was on.about apple and their 8K jobs,but easy to lose in text i guess



    Develop our own econmy and industry more here,increase tax rate (even a 50% increase leaves us in bottom 6 iirc in the eu) and ringfence said revenue to develop our native industry - potentially use native industry to begin making drugs recently out of patent and corner that market with competitevly priced drugs,and trade on reputation of excellence,same as our agri goods (built up through proper training etc on pharma end)

    no reason we cant be ahead of curve here,as for apple/IT jobs in general,a free trade deal witg indua could easily wipe us out there,the over reliance of a handful of conpanies using use for a tax base is incredibly short-sighted


    I do wonder


    You do realize the pharma companies benefit from our corporate tax, if you hit IT you hit them and they move away?


  • #1818
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I do wonder


    You do realize the pharma companies benefit from our corporate tax, if you hit IT you hit them and they move away?

    As ive said a free trade deal with india could eaaily wipe out our IT over night....tell me again how basing an econmy on this sector is wise?

    Noone said pharma companies dont benefit??,nowhere have i remotely implied this??


  • #1819
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I remember an Ireland before large scale American FDI. It was a really bleak situation. I don't see any viable alternative for Irish employment, tbh.

    If you look at Europe, regional areas are depopulating towards larger cities. If we do risk FDI here, we should be aware that it's not easy to replace those jobs, people move to where there is work, which further weakens regional areas etc. It becomes a vicious circle.

    Even from the last recession there's areas of Ireland which haven't recovered, and at this stage actually might never recover. I would say only 10% of the people I know who grew up west of the Shannon have any intention of returning to their home towns.

    No easy fix to it either.


  • #1820
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,284 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I remember an Ireland before large scale American FDI. It was a really bleak situation. I don't see any viable alternative for Irish employment, tbh.

    If you look at Europe, regional areas are depopulating towards larger cities. If we do risk FDI here, we should be aware that it's not easy to replace those jobs, people move to where there is work, which further weakens regional areas etc. It becomes a vicious circle.

    Even from the last recession there's areas of Ireland which haven't recovered, and at this stage actually might never recover. I would say only 10% of the people I know who grew up west of the Shannon have any intention of returning to their home towns.

    No easy fix to it either.

    I remember the world before corporations took control of it Harvey.

    Yes it was bleak in ways and not so in other ways.

    The world is changing (was even before this crisis) and more and more is being asked of what they have done to the world.

    We need to ask questions too and seek a fairer way. Won't happen overnight or dramatically.


  • #1821
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I remember an Ireland before large scale American FDI. It was a really bleak situation. I don't see any viable alternative for Irish employment, tbh.

    If you look at Europe, regional areas are depopulating towards larger cities. If we do risk FDI here, we should be aware that it's not easy to replace those jobs, people move to where there is work, which further weakens regional areas etc. It becomes a vicious circle.

    Even from the last recession there's areas of Ireland which haven't recovered, and at this stage actually might never recover. I would say only 10% of the people I know who grew up west of the Shannon have any intention of returning to their home towns.

    No easy fix to it either.

    I remember fruit of the loom pulling out of donegal and the damage it caused

    Baazs point stands.

    We should start restructuring and stop depending so heavily on FDI. These companies could well be all leaving after all this.

    Even if they don’t we should have a fall back plan in action anyways

    We have a nimble enough economy but if one domino falls in terms of an apple or Pfizer leaving they all will


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  • #1822
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Runaways wrote: »
    I remember fruit of the loom pulling out of donegal and the damage it caused

    Baazs point stands.

    We should start restructuring and stop depending so heavily on FDI. These companies could well be all leaving after all this.

    Even if they don’t we should have a fall back plan in action anyways

    We have a nimble enough economy but if one domino falls in terms of an apple or Pfizer leaving they all will

    Do SF have plans for that?

    Because they have done very little to improve NI's economy. It is still massively dependant on State funding.


  • #1823
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I remember an Ireland before large scale American FDI. It was a really bleak situation. I don't see any viable alternative for Irish employment, tbh.

    If you look at Europe, regional areas are depopulating towards larger cities. If we do risk FDI here, we should be aware that it's not easy to replace those jobs, people move to where there is work, which further weakens regional areas etc. It becomes a vicious circle.

    Even from the last recession there's areas of Ireland which haven't recovered, and at this stage actually might never recover. I would say only 10% of the people I know who grew up west of the Shannon have any intention of returning to their home towns.

    No easy fix to it either.

    Not if we're lead by donkeys anyway. They don't want to do heavy lifting. Making us a offshore tax haven for big business takes only a few strokes of a pen. Growing domestic industry and corporations requires considerable effort, abstract thinking and selfless effort.something beyond FFG.


  • #1824
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Do SF have plans for that?

    Because they have done very little to improve NI's economy. It is still massively dependant on State funding.

    Noone has it seems

    Its a glaring obvious flaw and noone wants to touch it....anyone who deos broach the subject is ridiculed and shot down for fear of upsetting apple type compamies.....its a form of collective censorship,that discussion on this is shut down


  • #1825
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As ive said a free trade deal with india could eaaily wipe out our IT over night....tell me again how basing an econmy on this sector is wise?

    Noone said pharma companies dont benefit??,nowhere have i remotely implied this??


    DO you understand what IT companies are doing in Ireland?

    Let take Apple out of it, what are they doing>?


  • #1826
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Do SF have plans for that?

    Because they have done very little to improve NI's economy. It is still massively dependant on State funding.

    Do they have full say over NI's finances?


  • #1827
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    DO you understand what IT companies are doing in Ireland?

    Let take Apple out of it, what are they doing>?

    Seems a truely bizzare method of debating to immediately exclude one of largest componants from the discussion?

    What is point of that?
    (Plz.dont start cursing)


  • #1828
    Runaways
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Runaways


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Do SF have plans for that?

    Because they have done very little to improve NI's economy. It is still massively dependant on State funding.

    That’s little or nothing to do with SF

    NI is a basket case and could be an unstable society/tinderbox quite quickly.
    And the Brits have never and will never do anything to fix that.
    No way is any FDI headed up there.

    Unite the country get rid of that bull sh!t green orange deadlock and make it obsolete and it’ll be boom time.

    We’re respected around the world by these multinationals and know How to attract them and look after them when here.

    That’s what NI needs and it would be a benefit to us all. But NI people especially


  • #1829
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    smurgen wrote: »
    Not if we're lead by donkeys anyway. They don't want to do heavy lifting. Making us a offshore tax haven for big business takes only a few strokes of a pen. Growing domestic industry and corporations requires considerable effort, abstract thinking and selfless effort.something beyond FFG.

    That is incredibly unfair. Ireland went from one of the poorest states in Europe in the 1950's to one of the wealthiest now. That is down to good governance.

    NI's economy is one of the worst regions in the UK, btw.


  • #1830
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    smurgen wrote: »
    Do they have full say over NI's finances?
    Same old same old from the Shinner scum but that doesnt stop Mascara Michelle and Miniskirt Martina coming out and spouting ****e about what they can do


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  • #1831
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Runaways wrote: »
    That’s little or nothing to do with SF

    NI is a basket case and could be an unstable society/tinderbox quite quickly.
    And the Brits have never and will never do anything to fix that.
    No way is any FDI headed up there.

    Unite the country get rid of that bull sh!t green orange deadlock and make it obsolete and it’ll be boom time.

    We’re respected around the world by these multinationals and know How to attract them and look after them when here.

    That’s what NI needs and it would be a benefit to us all. But NI people especially

    England pumps billions into NI every year. Circa 70% of the economy in NI is State supported. (An old figure, so happy if anyone wants to pull up recent figures)


This discussion has been closed.
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