How do FG/FF stop SF at the next election?

James Brown · 27-02-2020 2:24pm

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Im early 30s, degree educated engineer, worked my back off to get my job. Would be considered middle income I suppose. People are saying the lower income people are fed up.
Fed up of what exactly??
Medical cards, rent allowance, college grant's for children??
FG or FF still oversaw this country back from global recession.
I was shocked SF could generate such a following but it does remind me of what Winston Churchill allegedly said, The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Do you want a pat on the head?
I know a lad told the guidance/music teacher he wanted to be an engineer and got laughed at. He worked as a sheet metal worker after a Fas scheme and later went to college after some engineers took an interest.
Have you heard of empathy? Many confuse it with charity or freebies etc. The model of our society is excellent. People who need a dig out generally get one. Education is cheap, however different people come from different environments and we can't judge everyone by our own situation. People take advantage at all levels, but the vast majority are decent hard working people IMO. I'm delighted that my taxes go on rent allowance, medical cards and subsidising your education.

FF created our own homegrown recession that was exacerbated by the global one. We did in Ireland on a smaller scale, what led to much of the U.S. one, laxed financial regulation basically. Cheered on by FG. Then we had FG lie their way in and engage in crony behaviour all while over seeing numerous year on year record breaking crises. The ones helped cause it are back making millions but many are still feeling the recession.
I suggest you take a minute to talk to the average voter.

Fann Linn · 27-02-2020 2:26pm

tayto lover wrote: »

When I became a taxpayer in this country and saw how much I was paying for the “won’t work” brigades I wasn’t long learning about their lifestyles. I see them every day. Unfortunately some people have to work to sustain them.
But I’m glad to read that some political party has discovered a money tree to take the burden off the taxpayer.

Probably just aswell you didn't vote for FF or FG so. They've been keeping those freeloaders in dole payments, medical cards and cheap LA rents for the past 100 + years.

who what when · 27-02-2020 2:26pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I guess nurses, gardaí, bus drivers and numerous others who can't afford to buy are simply lazy so

Theres thousands and thousands of workers like those you've mentioned who can afford to buy.
Why is it that some can and some can't?

Fann Linn · 27-02-2020 2:32pm

who what when wrote: »

Theres thousands and thousands of workers like those you've mentioned who can afford to buy.
Why is it that some can and some can't?

Prices went up.

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 2:33pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Probably just aswell you didn't vote for FF or FG so. They've been keeping those freeloaders in dole payments, medical cards and cheap LA rents for the past 100 + years.

I know. I don’t trust any political party or their promises.

I especially cannot stand people who are well fit to work but refuse to and who are promised loads of free things curtesy of the taxpayer.

No problem with people who are out of work and don’t want to be idle getting dole, JB etc. They have contributed.

growleaves · 27-02-2020 2:44pm

Medical cards, rent allowance, college grant's for children??

Children don't go to college, they go to primary school.

In the past (this is going way back) low-earners had to sit at home and wait either to die or get better. Except that many doctors treated people free of charge. That's where the legacy of subsidised medicine comes from.

freshpopcorn · 27-02-2020 2:44pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Will leo even feature in Irish politics in a few years time?

He's after after overseeing a disastrous election after all.

He might but I think he has the attitude let Mary Lou off to do her thing and then he can be the hero.
It's a common thing I've heard from FG voters since the election. They'd gladly have another election and would like Sinn Fèin to do well so they can eventually show how good they are instead of sitting on the side lines giving out.

James Brown · 27-02-2020 2:56pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

He might but I think he has the attitude let Mary Lou off to do her thing and then he can be the hero.
It's a common thing I've heard from FG voters since the election. They'd gladly have another election and would like Sinn Fèin to do well so they can eventually show how good they are instead of sitting on the side lines giving out.

That was FF job traditionally. We are in desperate need of changing that cycle be it SF, greens, SD's or a collection featuring.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 2:58pm

Greyfox wrote: »

That's only because were paying stupid money to put people in hotels and apartments. Instead we should be spending a lot more money on creating loads of basic bedsits and basic homes. We cant afford to give everyone on the list a 3 bedroom house, we should try if you have a few kids but we have a problem here where people are expecting a really nice home for free. If you want a really nice home you need to be able to work for it. When I get to 70 I'm sure I'll be on the housing list and I don't see why I should get more than a bedsit.

We've a 1 billion P/A for HAP to line the pockets of landlords but we can't afford to own and rent LA housing , tell me how does that work?

No one said the houses have to be either really nice or 3 bedroom there is a happy medium between than and bedsits

James Brown · 27-02-2020 2:58pm

growleaves wrote: »

Children don't go to college, they go to primary school.

In the past (this is going way back) low-earners had to sit at home and wait either to die or get better. Except that many doctors treated people free of charge. That's where the legacy of subsidised medicine comes from.

Doogie Howser, M.D would beg to differ.

There seems to be this underlying crib that people only want to pay taxes for things they use/need. Thankfully society currently doesn't work like that.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 2:59pm

who what when wrote: »

Theres thousands and thousands of workers like those you've mentioned who can afford to buy.
Why is it that some can and some can't?

Generally the bank of Mam and Dad or they have to move hours away from work

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:01pm

tayto lover wrote: »

When I became a taxpayer in this country and saw how much I was paying for the “won’t work” brigades I wasn’t long learning about their lifestyles. I see them every day. Unfortunately some people have to work to sustain them.
But I’m glad to read that some political party has discovered a money tree to take the burden off the taxpayer.

So do you want to be them or not? Make up your mind! The wont "work brigade" account for a tiny fraction of your taxes

growleaves · 27-02-2020 3:02pm

Bowie wrote: »

Doogie Howser, M.D would beg to differ.

I myself did a PhD in Law at the age of nine.

But I supported myself by sweeping chimneys. I wasn't looking for handouts.

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:05pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So do you want to be them or not? Make up your mind! The wont "work brigade" account for a tiny fraction of your taxes

Why would I want to be a sponger?
They should be made earn their keep. Plenty of things they could be doing.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:09pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Why would I want to be a sponger?
They should be made earn their keep. Plenty of things they could be doing.

You seemed to want to be a "sponger" a few hours ago

tayto lover wrote: »

I would never have emigrated years ago at 17 years old if I thought that by staying I’d get a free house and free money every week.
Instead of working two jobs at times I could have been in the pub every day at lunchtime and backing horses in the bookies across the road.
Free medical card and other entitlements too.

What a great country it is to live in if you refuse to work.

What things would you have them do?

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:15pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You seemed to want to be a "sponger" a few hours ago

What things would you have them do?

Cleaning up their areas, working along with the council repairing homes and getting them ready for letting, digging gardens, cutting grass in parks etc. Nothing too stressful or mentally demanding obviously. An aid to the councils.

Do you think able-bodied people should be getting taxpayers money for doing nothing?

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:19pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Cleaning up their areas, working along with the council repairing homes and getting them ready for letting, digging gardens etc. Nothing too stressful or mentally demanding obviously. An aid to the councils.

So in your Ireland you'd have had people who lost their jobs in the recession out rebuilding the famine roads?

You honestly think slave labour is going to be an aid to the councils? Here's a mad idea but we could actually fund councils instead of turning them into the East India company

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:21pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So in your Ireland you'd have had people who lost their jobs in the recession out rebuilding the famine roads?

You honestly think slave labour is going to be an aid to the councils? Here's a mad idea but we could actually fund councils instead of turning them into the East India company

As you well know I’m talking about the “won’t work” brigade. Not people who lost their jobs and are actively seeking employment.

You can do better than the odd jibe.

James Brown · 27-02-2020 3:24pm

tayto lover wrote: »

As you well know I’m talking about the “won’t work” brigade. Not people who lost their jobs and are actively seeking employment.

You can do better than the odd jibe.

Do you have figures on the number of people illegally collecting welfare? People often use their annoyance at the current levels as a reason not to change government, (oddly) but it's anecdotal really. I've never seen numbers.
Is there a 'Dail TD fraudsters' hotline or 'Politician inappropriate behaviour' line?

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:26pm

tayto lover wrote: »

As you well know I’m talking about the “won’t work” brigade. Not people who lost their jobs and are actively seeking employment.

You can do better than the odd jibe.

Well i'm a bit worried about how t he "won't work" brigade is defined as you're talking about bring back slave labour. I'm concerned i'd be unemployed for a few weeks/months and Tayto Lover comes knocking at my door with a pick axe

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:27pm

Bowie wrote: »

Do you have figures on the number of people illegally collecting welfare? People often use their annoyance at the current levels as a reason not to change government, (oddly) but it's anecdotal really. I've never seen numbers.
Is there a 'Dail TD fraudsters' hotline or 'Politician inappropriate behaviour' line?

So you believe that it’s fine for able bodied people to go through their entire lives without doing a single days work? Is that what you’re implying?

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:27pm

Bowie wrote: »

Do you have figures on the number of people illegally collecting welfare? People often use their annoyance at the current levels as a reason not to change government, (oddly) but it's anecdotal really. I've never seen numbers.
Is there a 'Dail TD fraudsters' hotline or 'Politician inappropriate behaviour' line?

Leo launched one , it was a massive failure

https://www.thejournal.ie/welfare-cheats-varadkar-3344251-Apr2017/

https://www.thejournal.ie/social-welfare-fraud-ireland-3-4355782-Nov2018/

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:29pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So you believe that it’s fine for able bodied people to go through their entire lives without doing a single days work? Is that what you’re implying?

How many people do you think are in this category

James Brown · 27-02-2020 3:30pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So you believe that it’s fine for able bodied people to go through their entire lives without doing a single days work? Is that what you’re implying?

No. Do you have numbers? I'd like zero, but I'm inclined to believe the number might be so small it wouldn't make my top 5 list of societal issues.

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:30pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Well i'm a bit worried about how t he "won't work" brigade is defined as you're talking about bring back slave labour. I'm concerned i'd be unemployed for a few weeks/months and Tayto Lover comes knocking at my door with a pick axe

Keep deflecting rather than answer then.
Who mentioned slave labour? Cutting grass and painting is not very hard. They might feel better earning their keep.

I see sheep · 27-02-2020 3:33pm

Runaways wrote: »

I’m Not sure they ever said anything about free houses? They said they’d build houses.
That attitude is interesting though and seems prevelant here.
Lotta people seem scared SF might actually go some way to delivering on their claims whereas they’re happy or would prefer to let FFFG continue to do absolutely nothing to remedy the crises they’ve overseen and ignored the last decade

A lot of people don't want loads of houses to be built.
They think it will bring down the price of theirs.
The selfish bastards who don't care about society, only themselves
(FG voters)

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:34pm

Bowie wrote: »

No. Do you have numbers? I'd like zero, but I'm inclined to believe the number might be so small it wouldn't make my top 5 list of societal issues.

I don’t have numbers but I think it’s substantial enough and it’s wrong to expect workers to pay for lazy people. No problem with sick, disabled etc not working but fit people sponging is not just right.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:35pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Keep deflecting rather than answer then.
Who mentioned slave labour? Cutting grass and painting is not very hard. They might feel better earning their keep.

Your proposing labour by force , it's the very definition of slave labour

James Brown · 27-02-2020 3:36pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I don’t have numbers but I think it’s substantial enough and it’s wrong to expect workers to pay for lazy people. No problem with sick, disabled etc not working but fit people sponging is not just right.

I completely agree. I believe Varadkar used it as a deflection and a bogeyman. Funnily enough all the chancer of the week stories we've read about are happening under FF/FG yet people use them as a reason not to vote elsewhere.

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:37pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Your proposing labour by force , it's the very definition of slave labour

I propose working for your dole. Entirely different.
You have a choice. Slavery doesn’t give you a choice.

Granny15 · 27-02-2020 3:40pm

I see sheep wrote: »

A lot of people don't want loads of houses to be built.
They think it will bring down the price of theirs.
The selfish bastards who don't care about society, only themselves
(FG voters)

It sickens my whole seeing them thinking they have a place here in Ireland.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 3:42pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I don’t have numbers but I think it’s substantial enough and it’s wrong to expect workers to pay for lazy people. No problem with sick, disabled etc not working but fit people sponging is not just right.

Every system is abused, you only have 2 options have no system at all or have the system, accept it will be abused while trying to limit that abuse.

In 2013 their was about 13k over the age 35 in the category never worked which is 0.65% of the potential workforce ! Also given the state of our mental health and health services you could easily lower that figure with proper diagnose

This should be interesting , what's your opinion on taxing the rich more, say those on 100k or more and those with sizeable wealth?

RandomViewer · 27-02-2020 3:47pm

Bethany Millions Mirror wrote: »

How many people has DOB murdered?

Now there's a question?

James Brown · 27-02-2020 3:51pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Now there's a question?

I've no issue with DOB at all. He's not a public representative. He can turn his hand to anything fair f***s. Cell phones, print/broadcast Media, water meters, broadband...give that man more questionable state contracts requiring investigation I say!

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:53pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Every system is abused, you only have 2 options have no system at all or have the system, accept it will be abused while trying to limit that abuse.

In 2013 their was about 13k over the age 35 in the category never worked which is 0.65% of the potential workforce !

This should be interesting , what's your opinion on taxing the rich more, say those on 100k or more and those with sizeable wealth?

If there are only 100k of people who refuse to work and who have never worked a day in their lives then it’s too much.

Raising taxes on people who earn 140k is very foolish. I’m far from that bracket myself but I can see the dangers. Take a surgeon for example, he can earn much more abroad and what would be the point in him staying if he has to pay even more tax. Then we’d have to take in foreign surgeons who might not have good training, can’t communicate with us clearly and might make mistakes. I certainly would prefer the former operating in me.

Again the jibe at the end I see. You’re opinion should be interesting.

RandomViewer · 27-02-2020 3:53pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I propose working for your dole. Entirely different.
You have a choice. Slavery doesn’t give you a choice.

PRSI covers dole, that's why you pay it. Less time thinking about what others have and enjoy what you have would be the best advice.

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 3:55pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

PRSI covers dole, that's why you pay it. Less time thinking about what others have and enjoy what you have would be the best advice.

It’s still a tax going to keep a sponger.

James Brown · 27-02-2020 3:57pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s still a tax going to keep a sponger.

We can say the same about TD's salaries and those who don't turn up getting others to vote and the like. False expense claims etc.
It's a good and legitimate moan but we can't do away with government either.

RandomViewer · 27-02-2020 3:59pm

tayto lover wrote: »

If there are only 100k of people who refuse to work and who have never worked a day in their lives then it’s too much.

Raising taxes on people who earn 140k is very foolish. I’m far from that bracket myself but I can see the dangers. Take a surgeon for example, he can earn much more abroad and what would be the point in him staying if he has to pay even more tax. Then we’d have to take in foreign surgeons who might not have good training, can’t communicate with us clearly and might make mistakes. I certainly would prefer the former operating in me.

Again the jibe at the end I see. You’re opinion should be interesting.

Figure no where near that and is someone else mentioned a lot of long term unemployed would likely be on illness benefit if they got a diagnoses, Almost every country is considering a wealth tax for very high earners ,the raising of the lower rate to 50 k and the next band on the next 100 k and ever thing else after that with a 2-3% levy is a sensible proposal.

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 4:00pm

Bowie wrote: »

We can say the same about TD's salaries and those who don't turn up getting others to vote and the like. False expense claims etc.
It's a good and legitimate moan but we can't do away with government either.

I have very little time for politicians or any party. We don’t need as many either.
However I was addressing people who refuse to work at all.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 4:02pm

tayto lover wrote: »

If there are only 100k of people who refuse to work and who have never worked a day in their lives then it’s too much.

Raising taxes on people who earn 140k is very foolish. I’m far from that bracket myself but I can see the dangers. Take a surgeon for example, he can earn much more abroad and what would be the point in him staying if he has to pay even more tax. Then we’d have to take in foreign surgeons who might not have good training, can’t communicate with us clearly and might make mistakes. I certainly would prefer the former operating in me.

Again the jibe at the end I see. You’re opinion should be interesting.

It's 13K. I'm sure most surgeons would rather a functional health service rather than a few extra quid in their pockets

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 4:03pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Figure no where near that and is someone else mentioned a lot of long term unemployed would likely be on illness benefit if they got a diagnoses, Almost every country is considering a wealth tax for very high earners ,the raising of the lower rate to 50 k and the next band on the next 100 k and ever thing else after that with a 2-3% levy is a sensible proposal.

No it’s not.
It will chase out the people we need and some of the high tech industries we need. Why would they stay if they’re taxed far less abroad?

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 4:06pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's 13K. I'm sure most surgeons would rather a functional health service rather than a few extra quid in their pockets

Have you a link to the 13k? Still too many.

Tax the higher earners more and watch them leave.
It’s a very dangerous test which I feel will backfire.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-02-2020 4:10pm

tayto lover wrote: »

No it’s not.
It will chase out the people we need and some of the high tech industries we need. Why would they stay if they’re taxed far less abroad?

People take a lot of decisions into accoutn when choosing to live, not just tax and income. Fmaily, agreeable lifestyle, employment conditions, for example.

The idea that they would automatically move abroad is fallacy.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 4:11pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you a link to the 13k? Still too many.

Tax the higher earners more and watch them leave.
It’s a very dangerous test which I feel will backfire.

How many would be not too many? I do love those who want to make the poor life's miserable but someone on 140k beyond reproach and are all going to leave the country at the drop of a hat

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-seven-people-on-the-dole-has-never-worked-a-single-day-29278033.html

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 4:12pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How many would be not too many? I do love those who want to make the poor life's miserable but someone on 140k beyond reproach and are all going to leave the country at the drop of a hat

Where’s your link to the 13k?

If it’s the one you posted above from 7 years ago then you obviously didn’t read it.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 4:23pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Where’s your link to the 13k?

If it’s the one you posted above from 7 years ago then you obviously didn’t read it.

I did 13k of the over 35's. I didn't think it far too count those in their 20's in the middle of a recession

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 4:27pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I did 13k of the over 35's. I didn't think it far too count those in their 20's in the middle of a recession

Haha it’s a lot more than that. Imagine there’s nearly 3k of people between 60 and 65 years old who never paid prsi too. Went through their entire lives without a day’s work.

Thanks for the link.&#55357;&#56873;&#55357;&#56834;

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2020 4:30pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Haha it’s a lot more than that. Imagine there’s nearly 3k of people between 60 and 65 years old who never paid prsi too. Went through their entire lives without a day’s work.

Thanks for the link.��

Sure i'll let you have 20k. That's still 80k short of your imagined 100k and still less that 1% of the potential workforce

tayto lover · 27-02-2020 4:34pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Sure i'll let you have 20k. That's still 80k short of your imagined 100k and still less that 1% of the potential workforce

Ah even if it’s only 20k who refuse to get out of bed until the pub and bookies open then it’s far too many. Half their dole and give it to the underpaid worker.

How do FG/FF stop SF at the next election?

Comments