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How do FG/FF stop SF at the next election?

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    #152
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Jenbach110 wrote: »
    Im early 30s, degree educated engineer, worked my back off to get my job. Would be considered middle income I suppose. People are saying the lower income people are fed up.
    Fed up of what exactly??
    Medical cards, rent allowance, college grant's for children??
    FG or FF still oversaw this country back from global recession.
    I was shocked SF could generate such a following but it does remind me of what Winston Churchill allegedly said, The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    Do you want a pat on the head?
    I know a lad told the guidance/music teacher he wanted to be an engineer and got laughed at. He worked as a sheet metal worker after a Fas scheme and later went to college after some engineers took an interest.
    Have you heard of empathy? Many confuse it with charity or freebies etc. The model of our society is excellent. People who need a dig out generally get one. Education is cheap, however different people come from different environments and we can't judge everyone by our own situation. People take advantage at all levels, but the vast majority are decent hard working people IMO. I'm delighted that my taxes go on rent allowance, medical cards and subsidising your education.

    FF created our own homegrown recession that was exacerbated by the global one. We did in Ireland on a smaller scale, what led to much of the U.S. one, laxed financial regulation basically. Cheered on by FG. Then we had FG lie their way in and engage in crony behaviour all while over seeing numerous year on year record breaking crises. The ones helped cause it are back making millions but many are still feeling the recession.
    I suggest you take a minute to talk to the average voter.


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    #153
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    tayto lover wrote: »
    When I became a taxpayer in this country and saw how much I was paying for the “won’t work” brigades I wasn’t long learning about their lifestyles. I see them every day. Unfortunately some people have to work to sustain them.
    But I’m glad to read that some political party has discovered a money tree to take the burden off the taxpayer.

    Probably just aswell you didn't vote for FF or FG so. They've been keeping those freeloaders in dole payments, medical cards and cheap LA rents for the past 100 + years.


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    #154
    who what when
    Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭who what when


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I guess nurses, gardaí, bus drivers and numerous others who can't afford to buy are simply lazy so

    Theres thousands and thousands of workers like those you've mentioned who can afford to buy.
    Why is it that some can and some can't?


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    #155
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    who what when wrote: »
    Theres thousands and thousands of workers like those you've mentioned who can afford to buy.
    Why is it that some can and some can't?


    Prices went up.


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    #156
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Probably just aswell you didn't vote for FF or FG so. They've been keeping those freeloaders in dole payments, medical cards and cheap LA rents for the past 100 + years.

    I know. I don’t trust any political party or their promises.

    I especially cannot stand people who are well fit to work but refuse to and who are promised loads of free things curtesy of the taxpayer.

    No problem with people who are out of work and don’t want to be idle getting dole, JB etc. They have contributed.


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    #157
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Medical cards, rent allowance, college grant's for children??

    Children don't go to college, they go to primary school.

    In the past (this is going way back) low-earners had to sit at home and wait either to die or get better. Except that many doctors treated people free of charge. That's where the legacy of subsidised medicine comes from.


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    #158
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,365 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Will leo even feature in Irish politics in a few years time?

    He's after after overseeing a disastrous election after all.

    He might but I think he has the attitude let Mary Lou off to do her thing and then he can be the hero.
    It's a common thing I've heard from FG voters since the election. They'd gladly have another election and would like Sinn Fèin to do well so they can eventually show how good they are instead of sitting on the side lines giving out.


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    #159
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    He might but I think he has the attitude let Mary Lou off to do her thing and then he can be the hero.
    It's a common thing I've heard from FG voters since the election. They'd gladly have another election and would like Sinn Fèin to do well so they can eventually show how good they are instead of sitting on the side lines giving out.

    That was FF job traditionally. We are in desperate need of changing that cycle be it SF, greens, SD's or a collection featuring.


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    #160
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Greyfox wrote: »
    That's only because were paying stupid money to put people in hotels and apartments. Instead we should be spending a lot more money on creating loads of basic bedsits and basic homes. We cant afford to give everyone on the list a 3 bedroom house, we should try if you have a few kids but we have a problem here where people are expecting a really nice home for free. If you want a really nice home you need to be able to work for it. When I get to 70 I'm sure I'll be on the housing list and I don't see why I should get more than a bedsit.

    We've a 1 billion P/A for HAP to line the pockets of landlords but we can't afford to own and rent LA housing , tell me how does that work?

    No one said the houses have to be either really nice or 3 bedroom there is a happy medium between than and bedsits


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    #161
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    growleaves wrote: »
    Children don't go to college, they go to primary school.

    In the past (this is going way back) low-earners had to sit at home and wait either to die or get better. Except that many doctors treated people free of charge. That's where the legacy of subsidised medicine comes from.

    Doogie Howser, M.D would beg to differ.

    There seems to be this underlying crib that people only want to pay taxes for things they use/need. Thankfully society currently doesn't work like that.


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    #162
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    who what when wrote: »
    Theres thousands and thousands of workers like those you've mentioned who can afford to buy.
    Why is it that some can and some can't?

    Generally the bank of Mam and Dad or they have to move hours away from work


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    #163
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tayto lover wrote: »
    When I became a taxpayer in this country and saw how much I was paying for the “won’t work” brigades I wasn’t long learning about their lifestyles. I see them every day. Unfortunately some people have to work to sustain them.
    But I’m glad to read that some political party has discovered a money tree to take the burden off the taxpayer.

    So do you want to be them or not? Make up your mind! The wont "work brigade" account for a tiny fraction of your taxes


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    #164
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Bowie wrote: »
    Doogie Howser, M.D would beg to differ.


    I myself did a PhD in Law at the age of nine.


    But I supported myself by sweeping chimneys. I wasn't looking for handouts.


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    #165
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    So do you want to be them or not? Make up your mind! The wont "work brigade" account for a tiny fraction of your taxes

    Why would I want to be a sponger?
    They should be made earn their keep. Plenty of things they could be doing.


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    #166
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Why would I want to be a sponger?
    They should be made earn their keep. Plenty of things they could be doing.

    You seemed to want to be a "sponger" a few hours ago
    tayto lover wrote: »
    I would never have emigrated years ago at 17 years old if I thought that by staying I’d get a free house and free money every week.
    Instead of working two jobs at times I could have been in the pub every day at lunchtime and backing horses in the bookies across the road.
    Free medical card and other entitlements too.

    What a great country it is to live in if you refuse to work.

    What things would you have them do?


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    #167
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    You seemed to want to be a "sponger" a few hours ago


    What things would you have them do?

    Cleaning up their areas, working along with the council repairing homes and getting them ready for letting, digging gardens, cutting grass in parks etc. Nothing too stressful or mentally demanding obviously. An aid to the councils.

    Do you think able-bodied people should be getting taxpayers money for doing nothing?


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    #168
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Cleaning up their areas, working along with the council repairing homes and getting them ready for letting, digging gardens etc. Nothing too stressful or mentally demanding obviously. An aid to the councils.

    So in your Ireland you'd have had people who lost their jobs in the recession out rebuilding the famine roads?

    You honestly think slave labour is going to be an aid to the councils? Here's a mad idea but we could actually fund councils instead of turning them into the East India company


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    #169
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    So in your Ireland you'd have had people who lost their jobs in the recession out rebuilding the famine roads?

    You honestly think slave labour is going to be an aid to the councils? Here's a mad idea but we could actually fund councils instead of turning them into the East India company

    As you well know I’m talking about the “won’t work” brigade. Not people who lost their jobs and are actively seeking employment.

    You can do better than the odd jibe.


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    #170
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    tayto lover wrote: »
    As you well know I’m talking about the “won’t work” brigade. Not people who lost their jobs and are actively seeking employment.

    You can do better than the odd jibe.

    Do you have figures on the number of people illegally collecting welfare? People often use their annoyance at the current levels as a reason not to change government, (oddly) but it's anecdotal really. I've never seen numbers.
    Is there a 'Dail TD fraudsters' hotline or 'Politician inappropriate behaviour' line?


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    #171
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tayto lover wrote: »
    As you well know I’m talking about the “won’t work” brigade. Not people who lost their jobs and are actively seeking employment.

    You can do better than the odd jibe.

    Well i'm a bit worried about how t he "won't work" brigade is defined as you're talking about bring back slave labour. I'm concerned i'd be unemployed for a few weeks/months and Tayto Lover comes knocking at my door with a pick axe


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    #172
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Bowie wrote: »
    Do you have figures on the number of people illegally collecting welfare? People often use their annoyance at the current levels as a reason not to change government, (oddly) but it's anecdotal really. I've never seen numbers.
    Is there a 'Dail TD fraudsters' hotline or 'Politician inappropriate behaviour' line?

    So you believe that it’s fine for able bodied people to go through their entire lives without doing a single days work? Is that what you’re implying?


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    #173
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Bowie wrote: »
    Do you have figures on the number of people illegally collecting welfare? People often use their annoyance at the current levels as a reason not to change government, (oddly) but it's anecdotal really. I've never seen numbers.
    Is there a 'Dail TD fraudsters' hotline or 'Politician inappropriate behaviour' line?

    Leo launched one , it was a massive failure

    https://www.thejournal.ie/welfare-cheats-varadkar-3344251-Apr2017/

    https://www.thejournal.ie/social-welfare-fraud-ireland-3-4355782-Nov2018/


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    #174
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So you believe that it’s fine for able bodied people to go through their entire lives without doing a single days work? Is that what you’re implying?

    How many people do you think are in this category


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    #175
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    tayto lover wrote: »
    So you believe that it’s fine for able bodied people to go through their entire lives without doing a single days work? Is that what you’re implying?

    No. Do you have numbers? I'd like zero, but I'm inclined to believe the number might be so small it wouldn't make my top 5 list of societal issues.


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    #176
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Well i'm a bit worried about how t he "won't work" brigade is defined as you're talking about bring back slave labour. I'm concerned i'd be unemployed for a few weeks/months and Tayto Lover comes knocking at my door with a pick axe

    Keep deflecting rather than answer then.
    Who mentioned slave labour? Cutting grass and painting is not very hard. They might feel better earning their keep.


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    #177
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    Runaways wrote: »
    I’m Not sure they ever said anything about free houses? They said they’d build houses.
    That attitude is interesting though and seems prevelant here.
    Lotta people seem scared SF might actually go some way to delivering on their claims whereas they’re happy or would prefer to let FFFG continue to do absolutely nothing to remedy the crises they’ve overseen and ignored the last decade

    A lot of people don't want loads of houses to be built.
    They think it will bring down the price of theirs.
    The selfish bastards who don't care about society, only themselves
    (FG voters)


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    #178
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Bowie wrote: »
    No. Do you have numbers? I'd like zero, but I'm inclined to believe the number might be so small it wouldn't make my top 5 list of societal issues.

    I don’t have numbers but I think it’s substantial enough and it’s wrong to expect workers to pay for lazy people. No problem with sick, disabled etc not working but fit people sponging is not just right.


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    #179
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Keep deflecting rather than answer then.
    Who mentioned slave labour? Cutting grass and painting is not very hard. They might feel better earning their keep.

    Your proposing labour by force , it's the very definition of slave labour


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    #180
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I don’t have numbers but I think it’s substantial enough and it’s wrong to expect workers to pay for lazy people. No problem with sick, disabled etc not working but fit people sponging is not just right.

    I completely agree. I believe Varadkar used it as a deflection and a bogeyman. Funnily enough all the chancer of the week stories we've read about are happening under FF/FG yet people use them as a reason not to vote elsewhere.


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    #181
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Your proposing labour by force , it's the very definition of slave labour

    I propose working for your dole. Entirely different.
    You have a choice. Slavery doesn’t give you a choice.


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