How do FG/FF stop SF at the next election?

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have already explained the difference between 'intelligence documentation' and 'evidence'. The journalist is using the wrong term.

Again the section of the act which makes it clear what will be 'treated as evidence'.

How many times do I need to point it out, that is not a case based regulation.
That only means that if a Garda says, say for instance the IRA, or a criminal gang exists then the court will accept that it does, as long as the garda is considered an expert in that area.

Cee-Jay-Cee

satguy wrote: »

I think FF and FG are done for,, both have done such a poor job, and now seem to have used up all their brownie points.
They are so bad at their job, that people will vote for a party with IRA history, rather then let any of them have power ever again.

The guy that ownes FG is pushing them to a coalition government with FF against their will. The very last thing he would want, is for the country to see a SF and FF coalition government that works.

If we see a SF and FF coalition that works, then FG might never / ever see power again.
FG would be consigned to history just like the PD's ..

Is he the same guy that owns the internet?

freshpopcorn

Do they even want to to happen?
Part me thinks Leo wants to leave Mary Lou off and watch her fail at her promises so he can come in and be the hero in a few years.

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

Over the alternative being the street? As it has become for msny ... yes ... where do you draw the line? What’s up next to ban ? Apartments because they are only a stop gap to owning a house here ?

Most homeless aren't on the street, our rough sleeper level isn't that high

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

How many times do I need to point it out, that is not a case based regulation.
That only means that if a Garda says, say for instance the IRA, or a criminal gang exists then the court will accept that it does, as long as the garda is considered an expert in that area.

How many times have i advised you to read the conversations about what the legislation means?

This is just one of the 'concerned' writing about it and you can see that they too see it as 'conviction on the uncorroborated 'opinion evidence' of a Garda.

The Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill proposes to allow for the conviction of a defendant, in the absence of a jury and potentially on the uncorroborated opinion evidence of a member of the Gardaí, for the rather vague offence of directing or participating in the activities of a “criminal organisation”,

https://www.ucc.ie/academic/law/blogs/ccjhr/2009/07/constitutionality-of-criminal-justice.html

LeinsterDub

mikep wrote: »

I reckon let SF cobble together a "left alliance", sit back and watch the meltdown..

The forest of magic money trees will soon be revealed as a mirage thus preventing the fulfillment of their promises, people who voted SF for the first time as a protest will soon switch back..

The numbers aren't there it's roughly 18 short.

https://www.irishtimes.com/election2020/coalition-builder#/
Here you go send us a screenshot of a workable alliance

LeinsterDub

blanch152 wrote: »

I lived in a one-roomed flat with a wife and child at one time. While it was over 30 years ago, it was all we could do at the time. Nowadays, the entitlement culture expects a lot more.

Aren't people so entitlement imagine not wanting to be able to put your feet on your bed while you cook dinner and have a piss.

LeinsterDub

Bethany Millions Mirror wrote: »

Because people want to blame the government for all of life’s problems and when you consider where the country was to where we are now the Government has done a good job from an overall economic perspective. The snowflake millennial generation who are so used to instant gratification would have been teenagers back in 2008 so they can’t relate to this.

Which of the following do you think the government has done a job on ?

Housing , Health or Transport

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How many times have i advised you to read the conversations about what the legislation means?

This is just one of the 'concerned' writing about it and you can see that they too see it as 'conviction on the uncorroborated 'opinion evidence' of a Garda.





https://www.ucc.ie/academic/law/blogs/ccjhr/2009/07/constitutionality-of-criminal-justice.html

A blog fro 2009?
The article I posted shows proof of the considerations of the court.
I know you're on the SF side on this, but your and their arguments don't hold up.

If a Garda for instance brought you to court for membership of the IRA, the court would accept that the IRA existed and using your posts here as evidence he said you had to be one, then the judge would accept that the IRA existed but would only use the evidence of the posts as to whether you were a member, not the fact that the garda said you were one.
You could just deny it, it has always worked for Gerry Adams, I wonder why?

blanch152

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Aren't people so entitlement imagine not wanting to be able to put your feet on your bed while you cook dinner and have a piss.

Well, yes, that was the way it was for many of us.

And if you travel not so far out of Ireland, and still within Europe, you will be sharing that room with four or five others.

The entitlement culture is huge here.

LeinsterDub

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, yes, that was the way it was for many of us.

And if you travel not so far out of Ireland, and still within Europe, you will be sharing that room with four or five others.

The entitlement culture is huge here.

And your grandparents possibly lived in a tenement , how far should we back slide and call it progress?

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A blog fro 2009?
The article I posted shows proof of the considerations of the court.
I know you're on the SF side on this, but your and their arguments don't hold up.

From when the legislation was introduced = commentary at the time.

Look, you got it wrong. The gardai in the case you posted did not produce the 'material' upon which their opinion was based, i.e. the 'intelligence' documentation. The journalist is wrong to call it 'evidence'. The Garda's opinion is the 'evidence'.

If you wish to still hold to your stance against the weight of legal expertise in that article I posted, knock yourself out.

The scary thing here is the revelation that those supporting the SCC, don't seem to be aware of it's special powers.

tayto lover

I would never have emigrated years ago at 17 years old if I thought that by staying I’d get a free house and free money every week.
Instead of working two jobs at times I could have been in the pub every day at lunchtime and backing horses in the bookies across the road.
Free medical card and other entitlements too.

What a great country it is to live in if you refuse to work.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look, you got it wrong. The gardai in the case you posted did not produce the 'material' upon which their opinion was based, i.e. the 'intelligence' documentation. The journalist is wrong to call it 'evidence'. The Garda's opinion is the 'evidence'.

Jesus Francie, the judge said it, its in the early paragraphs of the article.

"Justice Tara Burns said that without this “belief evidence”, the evidence relating to the charges was “inherently tenuous” and the court could not convict the men. The court thus directed they be found not guilty of IRA membership."
"

ricero

Shameful and pathetic by Martin and finna fail backing rent freezes now. They fear Sinn Fein.

v638sg7k1a92bx

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Which of the following do you think the government has done a job on ?

Housing , Health or Transport

Would you prefer 50% youth unemployment? Millennials would really be crying into their phones.

Bishop of hope

Bethany Millions Mirror wrote: »

Would you prefer 50% youth unemployment? Millennials would really be crying into their phones.

Apparently the rather that than them sitting annoying them at home because they can't afford a place of their own.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Jesus Francie, the judge said it, its in the early paragraphs of the article.

"Justice Tara Burns said that without this “belief evidence”, the evidence relating to the charges was “inherently tenuous” and the court could not convict the men. The court thus directed they be found not guilty of IRA membership."
"

They have to produce the 'intelligence' documentation on which they base their 'opinion' which is then admissible as evidence.

Which bit of that ^ is giving you difficulty?
The Gardai didn't in this case, for whatever reason = case dismissed.

Nobody has suggested that a Garda can just wake up one morning and say X is a member of the 'RA and be believed. But he/she can form an opinion from covert observations, recordings, photos that wouldn't normally be enough in evidence given to a normal court. That is the 'special power' in this instance.

Fred Cryton

Darc19 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but this is the main reason they are riding high.

Even I who had a friend's family business blown up by the IRA in the 80's have moved on.

They'll never get my vote as I don't agree with their politics, but the vast majority of their members have little connection with the IRA and violence.

Some of their Td's are very well educated middle class people and their intensions are good.

Yes they have a few dodgy types and probably a few more than other parties, but they are a small minority.

The fixation of the media and FF and FG is giving SF a huge amount of publicity and they are "fashionable".

This is leading to more middle ground people joining them and giving them momentum.


FF and FG and the media are better off commenting far less and show comparisons from NI and other countries where similar policies simply have not worked.

But forget the IRA past. Most people are rather tired of it.

After all, their socialism only works until the money runs out.

I wasn't talking about the past. I am talking about the present, for example the Garda/PSNI statement that Army Council oversees SF. That is happening now, today. And the standing ovation of the killers of Garda Gerry McCabe. That is happening in the present.



Are the kids aware of this? If they are aware of this, and vote for SF anyway, are we supposed to be sympathetic to them and their concerns?

LeinsterDub

tayto lover wrote: »

I would never have emigrated years ago at 17 years old if I thought that by staying I’d get a free house and free money every week.
Instead of working two jobs at times I could have been in the pub every day at lunchtime and backing horses in the bookies across the road.
Free medical card and other entitlements too.

What a great country it is to live in if you refuse to work.

Perhaps you should of researched it so, you seem quite jealous of their lifestyles :rolleyes:

LeinsterDub

Bethany Millions Mirror wrote: »

Would you prefer 50% youth unemployment? Millennials would really be crying into their phones.

Yup because it's a binary choice isn't it. We apparently can't have employment and a health service or housing despite lots of other countries being able to do just that.

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

I would never have emigrated years ago at 17 years old if I thought that by staying I’d get a free house and free money every week.
Instead of working two jobs at times I could have been in the pub every day at lunchtime and backing horses in the bookies across the road.
Free medical card and other entitlements too.

What a great country it is to live in if you refuse to work.

Who has been handing out free houses?

Fann Linn

tayto lover wrote: »

I would never have emigrated years ago at 17 years old if I thought that by staying I’d get a free house and free money every week.
Instead of working two jobs at times I could have been in the pub every day at lunchtime and backing horses in the bookies across the road.
Free medical card and other entitlements too.

What a great country it is to live in if you refuse to work.

Ye can't blame the Shinners for that.

who what when

Idbatterim wrote: »

Are you looking to rent or buy in Dublin ? Didn’t think so.

Well actually 2 years ago I was indeed one of the masses looking for permanent housing.
My options were to either buy a tiny 3 bed semi on the fringes of Dublin or build my own home in a commuter county.

Guess which I did?

But I'll tell you what I didn't do - I didn't whinge and moan about being entitled to the sun, moon and stars while expecting other people to pay for it.
Hard work goes a hell of a long way but a lot of people don't want to know.

Fann Linn

ricero wrote: »

Shameful and pathetic by Martin and finna fail backing rent freezes now. They fear Sinn Fein.

What else will he roll back on so as to get his hands on the prize?

LeinsterDub

who what when wrote: »

Hard work goes a hell of a long way but a lot of people don't want to know.

I guess nurses, gardaí, bus drivers and numerous others who can't afford to buy are simply lazy so

Bobtheman

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah keep banging on about the Ra. That worked brilliantly before the last election :pac:

A lot of us have not forgotten the rivers of blood that the IRA created without any mandate. 75% didn't vote SF. Im not against them in power so long as the links between them and the IRA are further severed. They had to run through a few hoops in the north to be accepted No reason they can't do the same here.

Greyfox

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Most homeless aren't on the street, our rough sleeper level isn't that high

That's only because were paying stupid money to put people in hotels and apartments. Instead we should be spending a lot more money on creating loads of basic bedsits and basic homes. We cant afford to give everyone on the list a 3 bedroom house, we should try if you have a few kids but we have a problem here where people are expecting a really nice home for free. If you want a really nice home you need to be able to work for it. When I get to 70 I'm sure I'll be on the housing list and I don't see why I should get more than a bedsit.

McMurphy

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Do they even want to to happen?
Part me thinks Leo wants to leave Mary Lou off and watch her fail at her promises so he can come in and be the hero in a few years.

Will leo even feature in Irish politics in a few years time?

He's after after overseeing a disastrous election after all.

tayto lover

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Perhaps you should of researched it so, you seem quite jealous of their lifestyles :rolleyes:

When I became a taxpayer in this country and saw how much I was paying for the “won’t work” brigades I wasn’t long learning about their lifestyles. I see them every day. Unfortunately some people have to work to sustain them.
But I’m glad to read that some political party has discovered a money tree to take the burden off the taxpayer.