Trevor Deely case - new witness

Peter Flynt · 09-12-2019 10:16PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That is not obvious
We have no idea that the reason MIB was at BOIAM was because he was watching or following Trevor.
MIB also talked to his colleagues, was he watching them ?

And AGS are not convinced that MIB is also on Haddington Rd
In in one statement they said they were "satisfied" but a few days later on RTE a AGS spokesperson said they were not sure

It is the case that before Trevor arrived at Wilton Terrace that the MIB at Wilton Terrace proceeded to take a phone call, then engage Trevor in conversation after moving to talk to him. As he did so he seemed to be aware of BoI cameras as he kept his back to the cameras. All of this after waiting for 30+ minutes in the rain on a terrible night re the weather.

My understanding is that AGS believe this is the same person who followed him on HR.

"Gardaí said they believed this was the same man from earlier"
https://www.thejournal.ie/trevor-deely-timeline-3544950-Aug2017/

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:19PM

Wilton Terrace was and is a seedy spot. Any chance MIB was a pimp keeping an eye on things? Phone call make sense then.

noodler · 09-12-2019 10:20PM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

It is the case that before Trevor arrived at Wilton Terrace that the MIB at Wilton Terrace proceeded to take a phone call, then engage Trevor in conversation after moving to talk to him. As he did so he seemed to be aware of BoI cameras as he kept his back to the cameras. All of this after waiting for 30+ minutes in the rain on a terrible night re the weather.

My understanding is that AGS believe this is the same person who followed him on HR.

"Gardaí said they believed this was the same man from earlier"
https://www.thejournal.ie/trevor-deely-timeline-3544950-Aug2017/

But he's facing the camera in the shots with the pree people at the gate?

20Wheel · 09-12-2019 10:20PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That is not obvious
We have no idea that the reason MIB was at BOIAM was because he was watching or following Trevor.
MIB also talked to his colleagues, was he watching them ?

And AGS are not convinced that MIB is also on Haddington Rd
In in one statement they said they were "satisfied" but a few days later on RTE a AGS spokesperson said they were not sure

No. He got caught by the bollox by the work colleagues. Wasn't expecting them at all. Just like he got caught by the bollox when TD stopped to call on his phone.
And the plonker had to keep walking, so knowing that TD was an employee of the Bank he walked down the lane.
Where he proceeded to get caught on CCTV again.

He could have put 2+2 together and kept walking down wilton. Where TD would follow in a bit. But he wasn't supposed to lose track of TD, as the behind man.

So instead he ended up with his mug on camera, gawking after his target like a dog outside a supermarket.

Or maybe he was just gawking through that gate for inspiration.

RollieFingers · 09-12-2019 10:22PM

Lina Limited Workaholic wrote: »

Is it still the same the gates and still base of BOI? Thought I read it had changed

The gates and layout are still the exact same as the time of this incident. Well the actual gate itself might be different, I'm not sure, but the layout hasn't changed. I don't actually know if it is still BOI in there, always presumed it is. Whatever company is there the building is still fully operational, they have their Xmas tree up.

TwoMonthsOff · 09-12-2019 10:22PM

It's a very odd place to find yourself hanging around at 4am on a rainy night. Theres literally no excuse for hanging around on that street at that hour unless you're up to no good.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:22PM

20Wheel wrote: »

No. He got caught by the bollox by the work colleagues. Wasn't expecting them at all. Just like he got caught by the bollox when TD stopped to call on his phone.
And the plonker had to keep walking, so knowing that TD was an employee of the Bank he walked down the lane.
Where he proceeded to get caught on CCTV again.

He could have put 2+2 together and kept walking down wilton. Where TD would follow in a bit. But he wasn't supposed to lose track of TD, as the behind man.

So instead he ended up with his mug on camera, gawking after his target like a dog outside a supermarket.

Or maybe he was just gawking through that gate for inspiration.

FFS. Here we go now. The behind man. Like a dog outside a supermarket.

This thread is going to start progressing like the last one with this ****e.

Peter Flynt · 09-12-2019 10:25PM

noodler wrote: »

But he's facing the camera in the shots with the pree people at the gate?

That is true. CCTV was poor and less common in those days yet there's no doubt that that person was aware of CCTV cameras. He does become shifty when Trevor turns up though.

tdf7187 · 09-12-2019 10:26PM

STB. wrote: »

@ Fr Tod. Well I have followed the criminal angle (low level dealers more like). It was first presented in the press in 2017. The person who supposedly was helping AGS was ID'd on that famous crime photographer's twitter page - a post that exists still.

If you follow those articles and how they were described at the time you are left with 2 or 3 possible crime families. 2 from Rutland Grove, 1 of which went on to be a crew member of a now notorious and third Crumlin based family.

Proof though is always the problem, as is the reliability of the sources. Many have died as a result of addiction or gangland. The guards seemed pretty convinced to dig up Chapelizod not so long ago.

I think suicide can be ruled out due to the umbrella. Most likely it was wrong place, wrong time.

I can work out first one and third but not second. Seems there was and possibly still is a big problem with dysfunctional crime families from that specific road or estate.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:26PM

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

It's a very odd place to find yourself hanging around at 4am on a rainy night. Theres literally no excuse for hanging around on that street at that hour unless you're up to no good.

Pimp keeping an eye on things is about the only thing that adds up.

I again say that the narrative been given is the place was isolated. Like a ghost town. Id think there was a fair amount of foot traffic around. If we had access to the full cctv you would see a few people walking past.

20Wheel · 09-12-2019 10:27PM

smelly sock wrote: »

FFS. Here we go now. The behind man. Like a dog outside a supermarket.

This thread is going to start progressing like the last one with this ****e.

Whatever I say you're just going to say the opposite.

Mods can cut the charades and just wrap it up for all I care.

Good while it lasted. Nothing new coming to light. Forward my cheque.

You're welcome.

noodler · 09-12-2019 10:28PM

smelly sock wrote: »

FFS. Here we go now. The behind man. Like a dog outside a supermarket.

This thread is going to start progressing like the last one with this ****e.

I just listened to the sister's podcast.

It's pretty clear she is talking about boards (or Reddit).

One falsehood that keeps coming up on here that she corrected: he didn't come home from Alaska a couple of days prior to going missing - it was weeks.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:28PM

noodler wrote: »

But he's facing the camera in the shots with the pree people at the gate?

The guy to me has no fear of being identified.

noodler · 09-12-2019 10:28PM

20Wheel wrote: »

Whatever I say you're just going to say the opposite.

Mods can cut the charades and just wrap it up for all I care.

Good while it lasted. Nothing new coming to light. Forward my cheque.

You're welcome.

Could you please stop posters are being paid to get the thread shutdown please?

Your nonsense theories is doing that.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:30PM

noodler wrote: »

I just listened to the sister's podcast.

It's pretty clear she is talking about boards (or Reddit).

One falsehood that keeps coming up on here that she corrected: he didn't come home from Alaska a couple of days prior to going missing - it was weeks.

I dont think anyone with any sense believes this has anything to do with Alaska.

Peter Flynt · 09-12-2019 10:31PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Pimp keeping an eye on things is about the only thing that adds up.

A fair point but there is a phone call to the "pimp" which is answered/ended by him moments before TD arrived.
Pimps don't hang around street corners either.
Prostitutes do.
The pimps just take the money.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:31PM

It'd be interesting to know of this was the only cctv they saved from BOIAM. CCTV from the nights precedding the event might shed more light on people hanging around here amd if it was normal.

20Wheel · 09-12-2019 10:33PM

smelly sock wrote: »

The guy to me has no fear of being identified.

Cause he thought he was engaged in a petty crime.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:33PM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

A fair point but there is a phone call to the "pimp" which is answered/ended by him moments before TD arrived.
Pimps don't hang around street corners either.
Prostitutes do.
The pimps just take the money.

Yeh. Ive read some articles on this which suggest it wasnt uncommon to see men alone standing in door ways keeping an eye on business in this area.. It was an indo article. Will post a link.

smelly sock · 09-12-2019 10:38PM

20Wheel wrote: »

Cause he thought he was engaged in a petty crime.

The behind man? Looking at him like a dog in a supermarket?

20Wheel · 09-12-2019 10:48PM

smelly sock wrote: »

The behind man? Looking at him like a dog in a supermarket?

Yes. Like a dog that has seen its owner go in the building while he has to sit outside and gawk through the door/gate.

Waiting for him to come back out.

So he can follow him. And get what he wants.

Even dogs can deduce the concept of another having something that they want. And so to follow in the hopes of getting the thing.

Which amazingly (according to the quoted UK based experts in the Times) is exactly what MIB did.

Fr Tod Umptious · 09-12-2019 10:56PM

20Wheel wrote: »

No. He got caught by the bollox by the work colleagues. Wasn't expecting them at all. Just like he got caught by the bollox when TD stopped to call on his phone.
And the plonker had to keep walking, so knowing that TD was an employee of the Bank he walked down the lane.
Where he proceeded to get caught on CCTV again.

He could have put 2+2 together and kept walking down wilton. Where TD would follow in a bit. But he wasn't supposed to lose track of TD, as the behind man.

So instead he ended up with his mug on camera, gawking after his target like a dog outside a supermarket.

Or maybe he was just gawking through that gate for inspiration.

But why was this man in black no supposed to lose sight of Trevor, the tall, strong, young, junior IT engineer, who had been drinking but was not "legless" ?

What made Trevor such a target for this guy and his associates ?

I'm in fear of using by 10,000 post answering this rubbish

Peter Flynt · 09-12-2019 11:00PM

There's always a tendency to overestimate the role of stuff like CCTV/technology and the like in this terrible case.

CCTV had progressed very little from the 1980s - basically VHS videos were still being used a thousand times over. It was actually a credit to the Deely family and friends that they managed to get the CCTV from Haddington Road as they literally had hours before that was "taped over". They contacted every business they could with cameras and really only got footage from the banks at WT and HR. So a complacent MIB, whilst momentarily hiding, may not have been bothered by CCTV that much. In the end he was picked up on CCTV and the footage was so poor he cannot be identified.

Also on mobile phones - They weren't as common as people think on the night of 8 December 2000. These days everyone over the age of 12 has a mobile phone in Ireland. In 2000 they were on stream but not everyone had a phone. A few traditionalists, like myself, were only getting mobile phones for the first time around this era and I certainly don't remember text messaging coming with them. Perhaps that's why Trevor was on his phone and also MIB at the same time as Trevor arrived on Wilton Terrace. Texting seem to come commonplace around 2002 (I await correction though if wrong).

Fr Tod Umptious · 09-12-2019 11:00PM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

It is the case that before Trevor arrived at Wilton Terrace that the MIB at Wilton Terrace proceeded to take a phone call, then engage Trevor in conversation after moving to talk to him. As he did so he seemed to be aware of BoI cameras as he kept his back to the cameras. All of this after waiting for 30+ minutes in the rain on a terrible night re the weather.

My understanding is that AGS believe this is the same person who followed him on HR.

"Gardaaid they believed this was the same man from earlier"
https://www.thejournal.ie/trevor-deely-timeline-3544950-Aug2017/

I now what you linkedis from the Gardai but as I said another Garda said on RTE that they were not sure.
I can't find a link to it but it was discussed on the old thread.

It is inconclusive, which is a pity because MIB at BOIAM and the guy walking doen Haddington Rd have never been identified

tdf7187 · 09-12-2019 11:04PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why was this man in black no supposed to lose sight of Trevor, the tall, strong, young, junior IT engineer, who had been drinking but was not "legless" ?

What made Trevor such a target for this guy and his associates ?

I'm in fear of using by 10,000 post answering this rubbish

So you think the cops are on the wrong track? If so take it up with them. It's not a few posters on boards.ie that ordered the 5 day search in Chapelizod.

Incidentally, I searched back on your posts and for your tendency to lecture others from a great height you committed a few basic errors. Trevor wouldn't have needed to take the route he did to buy ciggies or a Lucozade at the Spar on Bath Avenue. At that time, the Spar on Uppr Baggot St, literally a stones throw from the Mespil Rd. / Uppr Baggot St junction, was also 24 hours. I always thought the route he took was a sidetrack. He probably just preferred to walk that way home. The distance wouldn't have been all that much different to the more direct route, via Pembroke Rd.

The blunt facts are that there were at that time heroin and cocaine addicted prostitutes and pimps operating in that area of Dublin. Some of said people provably involved in other very serious crimes, both before and since Trevor's disappearance. They wouldn't have given a ****e about being caught on CCTV, it wouldn't even have occured to them. I'm talking about people that would have done anything for the next fix. I cannot say if any of them were involved in Trevor's disappearance, I simply have no idea, but I'm not as prepared as you seem to be to dismiss, in a condescending fashion, posters who have a different view to you. A view that is not coming out of thin air, incidentally.

ParkRunner · 09-12-2019 11:04PM

Anyone going to college back then got a free phone when you opened a student bank account. Texts and calls were very expensive though, and you couldn’t keep the same number so nowhere near the level of usage and traceability there is now. Phones didn’t have cameras either.
If it happened today he could be traced by phone, cctv, dashcam, social media. Whole different world back then.

Fr Tod Umptious · 09-12-2019 11:04PM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There's always a tendency to overestimate the role of stuff like CCTV/technology and the like in this terrible case.

CCTV had progressed very little from the 1980s - basically VHS videos were still being used a thousand times over. It was actually a credit to the Deely family and friends that they managed to get the CCTV from Haddington Road as they literally had hours before that was "taped over". They contacted every business they could with cameras and really only got footage from the banks at WT and HR. So a complacent MIB, whilst momentarily hiding, may not have been bothered by CCTV that much. In the end he was picked up on CCTV and the footage was so poor he cannot be identified.

Also on mobile phones - They weren't as common as people think on the night of 8 December 2000. These days everyone over the age of 12 has a mobile phone in Ireland. In 2000 they were on stream but not everyone had a phone. A few traditionalists, like myself, were only getting mobile phones for the first time around this era and I certainly don't remember text messaging coming with them. Perhaps that's why Trevor was on his phone and also MIB at the same time as Trevor arrived on Wilton Terrace. Texting seem to come commonplace around 2002 (I await correction though if wrong).

Trevor is on his phone to Peter the security guard asking to be let in
That's an established fact

Peter Flynt · 09-12-2019 11:06PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Trevor is on his phone to Peter the security guard asking to be let in
That's an established fact

That's what I stated.

Peter Flynt · 09-12-2019 11:08PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I now what you linkedis from the Gardai but as I said another Garda said on RTE that they were not sure.
I can't find a link to it but it was discussed on the old thread.

It is inconclusive, which is a pity because MIB at BOIAM and the guy walking doen Haddington Rd have never been identified

I find it unlikely that the media would be reporting 17 years later that AGS are clear that they believe that both men were the same person.....only for it to be ruled out a few days later.. Perhaps you could get that link

STB. · 09-12-2019 11:13PM

tdf7187 wrote: »

I can work out first one and third but not second. Seems there was and possibly still is a big problem with dysfunctional crime families from that specific road or estate.

Press reporting over the last few years - allegedly interlinked (by the way, the family the press were referring to are no longer serious players in drugs).

1 , 2 , 3 , 4 and 5

Trevor Deely case - new witness

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