Trevor Deely case - new witness

20Wheel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes their information on whether they believe the guys are the same person are totally ambiguous

Nope.

tdf7187

20Wheel wrote: »

3.their history of crimes are unknown. Although there's something to that. If there was a sudden dip in petty crimes, if someone turned into a regular saint immediately after the 8th then it could suggest heads being kept down.

I doubt that.

Fr Tod Umptious

smelly sock wrote: »

In certain circumstances victims might not report muggings.

Yea that's very possible

But if it becomes widespread and common place then it becomes more known to the public.
Warning about personal safety late at night in certain areas etc

Now remember I'm only discussing this in the context of "20Wheel"'s magnum opus where he/she talks about individuals knowing Trevor's route home, where he works, spots him in Buck's, one goes off ahead, waits in the rain, gets disrupted by the colleagues etc etc

If his/her two party stalking/mugging theory is true why did they just stop with Trevor.
Why didn't they do it all the time, and in that context if it became so regular then it would have become news

20Wheel

tdf7187 wrote: »

I doubt that.

You know the history of MIB?

STB.

smelly sock wrote: »

No it doesnt. Maybe to drug dealers and such it does but not to a young innocent chap. That doesnt happen that much at all.

How naive are you. Do you even read the newspapers ?

20Wheel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If his/her two party stalking/mugging theory is true why did they just stop with Trevor.

Seriously? Lol.

tuxy

tdf7187 wrote: »

I know the history of that type, shall we say.

Goths?

andekwarhola

Good lord.

smelly sock

Well this has gone down hill rapidly.

juno10353

Executioner511 wrote: »

Were the Gardai on strike that night aswell surely there should be a big police presence in an area bustling with workers, party goers and drug dealers,lowlifes and prostitutes ,it's basically in the city centre and should have a large Garda presence regardless especially in the run up to Christmas but I'm sure they were too busy getting their freebies in some late night lock in.

Yes would have imagined a bigger garda presence as Presidennt Clinton was visiting following day

KWAG2019

I suppose it was inevitable that the wheels would come off eventually.

tuxy

juno10353 wrote: »

Yes would have imagined a bigger garda presence as Presidennt Clinton was visiting following day

That Tuesday?
However his security team were in the area that weekend I believe.

Coconut12

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/extra.ie/2017/08/15/news/irish-news/i-dont-want-cash-reward-trevor-found-says-informant/amp

tuxy

Coconut12 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/extra.ie/2017/08/15/news/irish-news/i-dont-want-cash-reward-trevor-found-says-informant/amp

Yes and there was a six week search of the area.
The family seem to mostly dismiss this tip off now.
Not sure what the Garda think at this stage it would seem that families ideas on what may have happened possibly differ from the Garda.

20Wheel

Coconut12 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/extra.ie/2017/08/15/news/irish-news/i-dont-want-cash-reward-trevor-found-says-informant/amp

Very interesting piece.

One thing that came to mind, if I dare say in this snake pit, is a possibility regarding the informant when he says he was told of the crime and the site by the perpetrator.

The perpetrator could have intentionally used disclosure of an incorrect site as a trap to establish if/when his pal (the informant) ever went to the gardai.

If he ever sees chapilizod in the news about a garda dig then he knows who went to them.

(Yes yes I know what's this about digging up all of chapilizod and ballyfermot, why would he use a trap on a friend, what good would that be, mammoth task, etc )

smelly sock

20Wheel wrote: »

Very interesting piece.

One thing that came to mind, if I dare say in this snake pit, is a possibility regarding the informant when he says he was told of the crime and the site by the perpetrator.

The perpetrator could have intentionally used disclosure of an incorrect site as a trap to establish if/when his pal (the informant) ever went to the gardai.

If he ever sees chapilizod in the news about a garda dig then he knows who went to them.

(Yes yes I know what's this about digging up all of chapilizod, why would he use a trap on a friend, what good would that be, mammoth task, etc )

Yeh sounds about right.

BDI

20Wheel wrote: »

Very interesting piece.

One thing that came to mind, if I dare say in this snake pit, is a possibility regarding the informant when he says he was told of the crime and the site by the perpetrator.

The perpetrator could have intentionally used disclosure of an incorrect site as a trap to establish if/when his pal (the informant) ever went to the gardai.

If he ever sees chapilizod in the news about a garda dig then he knows who went to them.

(Yes yes I know what's this about digging up all of chapilizod and ballyfermot, why would he use a trap on a friend, what good would that be, mammoth task, etc )

Or some nutter was trying to scare his girlfriend or boyfriend by telling them about a prominant crime they committed. Just like farrah noor told the scissor sisters mother he killed the girl that was found stabbed. Turns out he was just trying to scare her.

KWAG2019

20Wheel wrote: »

Very interesting piece.

One thing that came to mind, if I dare say in this snake pit, is a possibility regarding the informant when he says he was told of the crime and the site by the perpetrator.

The perpetrator could have intentionally used disclosure of an incorrect site as a trap to establish if/when his pal (the informant) ever went to the gardai.

If he ever sees chapilizod in the news about a garda dig then he knows who went to them.

(Yes yes I know what's this about digging up all of chapilizod and ballyfermot, why would he use a trap on a friend, what good would that be, mammoth task, etc )

Is that you MIB?

20Wheel

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Is that you MIB?

As predicted.

Fiftyfilthy

Peter Flynt wrote: »

A fair point but there is a phone call to the "pimp" which is answered/ended by him moments before TD arrived.
Pimps don't hang around street corners either.
Prostitutes do.
The pimps just take the money.

They actually did , would walk around whilst the girl was on a job. Lurk near the area until she came back. IF the mib was a pimp he could be just standing there as expecting that girl to come back out of a car on that road at any moment . She could just have taken longer than expected

Pimps on the street then are not like what some people might imagine, money, car etc

They are as desperate as the prostitute for their heroin but with no way of making the money . Easier to get her on the street for a couple of hours to get their money up. Whilst pimps are waiting they are always looking about and thinking of ways to make money too

He could very well just be a pimp loitering around

Just to add, pimps prefer to stay in one place than walk around, walking around leads to the Gards telling them to move out the area or arrested. A lot of these pimps have outstanding warrants

My train of thought switches back and forth about the relevance of this individual

Peter Flynt

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

They actually did , would walk around whilst the girl was on a job. Lurk near the area until she came back. IF the mib was a pimp he could be just standing there as expecting that girl to come back out of a car on that road at any moment . She could just have taken longer than expected

Pimps on the street then are not like what some people might imagine, money, car etc

They are as desperate as the prostitute for their heroin but with no way of making the money . Easier to get her on the street for a couple of hours to get their money up. Whilst pimps are waiting they are always looking about and thinking of ways to make money too

He could very well just be a pimp loitering around

My train of thought switches back and forth about the relevance of this individual

Fair enough.

The 'pimp' is seen taking a phone call as Trevor Deely apporaches the gates of BoI though.

hurikane

Is anybody else eagerly awaiting the ten thousand post from Fr Tod Umptious?

tuxy

hurikane wrote: »

Is anybody else eagerly awaiting the ten thousand post from Fr Tod Umptious?

The man is clearly unhinged.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/ex-father-ted-actor-given-six-months-to-pay-150-fine-1.4104838

While in a cell he continually spat at the door, which the court heard needed to be cleaned by a cleaning company at a cost of €50. He continued to be abusive and spat at a member of the public after being released.

Fiftyfilthy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes their information on whether they believe the guys are the same person are totally ambiguous

Agreed, uk experts were sure it was the same person. However another source from the uk experts have doubts, they think the man is possibly wearing a leather jacket from the shine of it on the cctv at boiam and the hr cctv shows a different coat

I don’t think anyone knows for certain either way

KWAG2019

tuxy wrote: »

The man is clearly unhinged.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/ex-father-ted-actor-given-six-months-to-pay-150-fine-1.4104838

Spat at the door. Unhinged. We see what you did there.

20Wheel

hurikane wrote: »

Is anybody else eagerly awaiting the ten thousand post from Fr Tod Umptious?

Why would we be waiting? what makes you think it would be the 10,000th post? what would be the point? why didn't he undertake this mammoth task before?
Such nonsense he probably closed his account after a few drinks. He wouldn't be the first. No I don't believe it this 10,000th post idea.

Fr Tod Umptious

20Wheel wrote: »

1.Cause they know him from him working in their area. Know him to be a civil, mild type. A young country lad.

2.Cause they know his route home. And that he'd had a few drinks. And that he's been to the atm.

3.their history of crimes are unknown. Although there's something to that. If there was a sudden dip in petty crimes, if someone turned into a regular saint immediately after the 8th then it could suggest heads being kept down.

4.multiple possibilities. Why do anything on a given day.

Who says it needs to be part of a spate. Endless possibilities. Maybe they lost at the bookies. Maybe they were behind on rent. You name it.

What do think happened and how does it line up with anything we know for certain, or that the gardai say.

Hold on now a second.

You told us in your great work from Sunday evening that our two criminals saw Trevor out and recognized him as the lad who works in the bank.

But you never mentioned anything about them seeing him near the Hilton where he took the money out of the ATM ?

You said they knew he had money because he worked in a bank, not because he had been to the ATM.

Are you now saying that our two criminals were following him long before Leeson St ?

20Wheel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Hold on now a second.

You told us in your great work from Sunday evening that our two criminals saw Trevor out and recognized him as the lad who works in the bank.

But you never mentioned anything about them seeing him near the Hilton where he took the money out of the ATM ?

You said they knew he had money because he worked in a bank, not because he had been to the ATM.

Are you now saying that our two criminals were following him long before Leeson St ?

Well Jesus.

They may have perceived/assumed him to have some quantity of money. For some reason or other. Maybe targeting his phone was part of the reason.

The theory is that he was targeted, for one reason or other. Probably a few.
I suspect they knew his normal route. And that he was destined to walk that way due to the taxi strike, and closing/finishing up hours.
Fair to assume a few drinks on him too. Coming from a club.

It fits better than anything you've offered. Don't say it doesn't, it does.

Oh and in response to your earlier... Lol.... Question.

"If his/her two party stalking/mugging theory is true why did they just stop with Trevor".

Because they killed him. Duh.

Great 10,000th post.

Day Lewin

20Wheel wrote: »

Well Jesus.

They may have perceived/assumed him to have some quantity of money. For some reason or other. Maybe targeting his phone was part of the reason.

The theory is that he was targeted, for one reason or other. Probably a few.
I suspect they knew his normal route. And that he was destined to walk that way due to the taxi strike, and closing/finishing up hours.
Fair to assume a few drinks on him too. Coming from a club.

It fits better than anything you've offered. Don't say it doesn't, it does.

Oh and in response to your earlier... Lol.... Question.

"If his/her two party stalking/mugging theory is true why did they just stop with Trevor".

Because they killed him. Duh.

Great 10,000th post.

ah now...even if a person has a "normal route" he takes that road every day, to and from work.
Not at 4 a.m.
To KNOW this, about a person at night, you'd have to have stalked him by day.
And really there's nothing at all about poor Trevor Deely to suggest that he was stalked or was in any way of interest to anyone (I mean, unusually) until the night he disappeared.

The "pimp" theory about MIB is more more likely, or at least, less unlikely.
Right there on that stretch of canal bank. A traditional centre for sex work, even now.
In fact, re-viewing the CCTV, he might have been waiting for his girl, looking out for business, and propositioned Trevor, offering services. The "colleagues" too, maybe. Not many customers around, that wet night: but these were guys coming from a nightclub and might have been in the mood.
Wouldn't explain why he followed Trevor - if he did - maybe took offense at a refusal? Or thought T might have a wallet on him?

Nothing here to say what really happened - it is just my guesswork, of course:
but this scenario really isn't impossible: knowing that there were organised crime interests running sex work and drugs in the area at the time (and that part, at least, is known fact)

Fr Tod Umptious

Day Lewin wrote: »

ah now...even if a person has a "normal route" he takes that road every day, to and from work.
Not at 4 a.m.
To KNOW this, about a person at night, you'd have to have stalked him by day.
And really there's nothing at all about poor Trevor Deely to suggest that he was stalked or was in any way of interest to anyone (I mean, unusually) until the night he disappeared.

The "pimp" theory about MIB is more more likely, or at least, less unlikely.
Right there on that stretch of canal bank. A traditional centre for sex work, even now.
In fact, re-viewing the CCTV, he might have been waiting for his girl, looking out for business, and propositioned Trevor, offering services. The "colleagues" too, maybe. Not many customers around, that wet night: but these were guys coming from a nightclub and might have been in the mood.
Wouldn't explain why he followed Trevor - if he did - maybe took offense at a refusal? Or thought T might have a wallet on him?

Nothing here to say what really happened - it is just my guesswork, of course:
but this scenario really isn't impossible: knowing that there were organised crime interests running sex work and drugs in the area at the time (and that part, at least, is known fact)

That's far more believable than any grand conspiracy to target Trevor.


If MIB at BOIAM is different from MIB at Haddington Rd then it might explain why MIB BOIAM is both oblivious to the CCTV (he's in the area most nights, caught on CCTV, he doesn't care at this stage) and why he has not come forward.

If it's the same guy following Trevor on Haddington Rd then it has the potential to be far more sinister.