Lead ban

TeaBagMania · 03-10-2019 8:42pm

screw that environmental garbage i say we move to depleted uranium shot

JohnFitz2332 · 03-10-2019 9:01pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

I see who is standing for election, and scratch out anyone fg, ff, labour, green or sf/ira. I see who is left, pick the most extreme either on the left or right and vote for them. The only way things will change is when those in power get a nasty shock. The sight of a load of communists or facists trotting into the dail might give them a rocket. Its happened in a lot of european countries in the last few years.

But as George Carlin says in the video below, it doesn't make a jot of difference who you vote for anyway, Ireland is bought and paid for and has been for a long time.

I'd be well up for a communist Dáil tbh

JohnFitz2332 · 03-10-2019 9:04pm

Bob66 wrote: »

Agreed. Lead is bad.

It is toxic and has been accepted by humanity for a long time. Out of ignorance and habbit. It's what our Fathers used, our military used etc. People don't like change!, and react mostly negatively to something taken away from them. We feel like it's a personal infringement of our rights. Given time and education we soon become acustomised to the new alternatives. Who'd have thought 20 years ago that we'd be driving electric cars. Growing up I had to make a phone call from a yellow box on the street. Alternatives to lead commonly used today are 100% Copper, which is expensive & 95% Copper 5% Zinc. Which studies have shown to be superior to lead. I'm sure there are many more combinations of metals that will have the same effect we are all used to getting. But no matter what is chosen as the alternative, we are still dumping and polluting our environment. I'm as guilty as everybody else. I'd like to be part of positive change as a responsible shooter.

Footnote:
The downside initially to using alternative rounds is the cost. Manufacturers will need to recoup losses changing over from lead. Once everybody has made the change prices will come down as demand rises. Change is inevitable as is our ability to adapt to it.

Pretty much on board with you here. I wish the legislation was actually about environmentalism, but it's not. It's another way of attempting to disarm the public. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the copper alternative to lead is also toxic, I think.

BryanL · 03-10-2019 9:47pm

Bob66 wrote: »

Agreed. Lead is bad.

It is toxic and has been accepted by humanity for a long time. Out of ignorance and habbit. It's what our Fathers used, our military used etc. People don't like change!, and react mostly negatively to something taken away from them. We feel like it's a personal infringement of our rights. Given time and education we soon become acustomised to the new alternatives. Who'd have thought 20 years ago that we'd be driving electric cars. Growing up I had to make a phone call from a yellow box on the street. Alternatives to lead commonly used today are 100% Copper, which is expensive & 95% Copper 5% Zinc. Which studies have shown to be superior to lead. I'm sure there are many more combinations of metals that will have the same effect we are all used to getting. But no matter what is chosen as the alternative, we are still dumping and polluting our environment. I'm as guilty as everybody else. I'd like to be part of positive change as a responsible shooter.

Footnote:
The downside initially to using alternative rounds is the cost. Manufacturers will need to recoup losses changing over from lead. Once everybody has made the change prices will come down as demand rises. Change is inevitable as is our ability to adapt to it.

What about the lead in our green future batteries? Or lead flashing on housing?

Lead in shotgun shot is a easy win for politicians without any great benefit to anyone.

Grizzly 45 · 03-10-2019 9:49pm

BryanL wrote: »

What about the lead in our green future batteries? Or lead flashing on housing?

Lead in shotgun shot is a easy win for politicians without any great benefit to anyone.

As someone said in FUN.Its a gun ban by the back door by the EU.Cant get the guns?Get the ammo and places they shoot instead.

grassroot1 · 03-10-2019 9:50pm

Bob66 wrote: »

Agreed. Lead is bad.

It is toxic and has been accepted by humanity for a long time. Out of ignorance and habbit. It's what our Fathers used, our military used etc. People don't like change!, and react mostly negatively to something taken away from them. We feel like it's a personal infringement of our rights. Given time and education we soon become acustomised to the new alternatives. Who'd have thought 20 years ago that we'd be driving electric cars. Growing up I had to make a phone call from a yellow box on the street. Alternatives to lead commonly used today are 100% Copper, which is expensive & 95% Copper 5% Zinc. Which studies have shown to be superior to lead. I'm sure there are many more combinations of metals that will have the same effect we are all used to getting. But no matter what is chosen as the alternative, we are still dumping and polluting our environment. I'm as guilty as everybody else. I'd like to be part of positive change as a responsible shooter.

Footnote:
The downside initially to using alternative rounds is the cost. Manufacturers will need to recoup losses changing over from lead. Once everybody has made the change prices will come down as demand rises. Change is inevitable as is our ability to adapt to it.

I always get surprised when you get a first post with so much contrary opinion
The is no alternative metal that is a direct replacement for lead.
Why should we be forced to except the removal of lead on the whim of an unelected eurocrat

Grizzly 45 · 03-10-2019 10:05pm

Bob66 wrote: »

Agreed. Lead is bad.

It is toxic and has been accepted by humanity for a long time. Out of ignorance and habbit. It's what our Fathers used, our military used etc. People don't like change!, and react mostly negatively to something taken away from them. We feel like it's a personal infringement of our rights. Given time and education we soon become acustomised to the new alternatives. Who'd have thought 20 years ago that we'd be driving electric cars. Growing up I had to make a phone call from a yellow box on the street. Alternatives to lead commonly used today are 100% Copper, which is expensive & 95% Copper 5% Zinc. Which studies have shown to be superior to lead. I'm sure there are many more combinations of metals that will have the same effect we are all used to getting. But no matter what is chosen as the alternative, we are still dumping and polluting our environment. I'm as guilty as everybody else. I'd like to be part of positive change as a responsible shooter.

Footnote:
The downside initially to using alternative rounds is the cost. Manufacturers will need to recoup losses changing over from lead. Once everybody has made the change prices will come down as demand rises. Change is inevitable as is our ability to adapt to it.

Then stick with lead! Its the most cost effective,humane for kills and available.
Unless we decide to start growing veggies on the range berms and eating the first 12ins of dirt on the range,it has just as much an effect on us as eating normally grown and imported commercially grown and lead infested vegtables.

Bismuth,is a lead manufacture by product,and you need lead to produce bismuth.So by and large you are not gaining anything by doing such.

Strangely enough, people seemed to have survived and reproduced no problem with four times the average amount of lead in their systems than we have today
.Our Great great grandparents in Victorian times were surrounded by the stuff,and seemed to have lived to ripe old ages too.They ate off pewter plates and mugs[lead compound],drank water from taps solderd and pipes made of lead.Painted their houses with lead paint, ate from lead sealed cans,belted it onto their roofs and cast many parts insitiu with molten lead.

Even us who grew up in the 60s were still playing with lead soilders,and chewing no doubt on wooden lead painted things as kids.Or writing in school with genuine lead pencils.Still here arent we?

Mississippi. · 03-10-2019 10:06pm

Bob66 wrote: »

Agreed. Lead is bad.

It is toxic and has been accepted by humanity for a long time. Out of ignorance and habbit. It's what our Fathers used, our military used etc. People don't like change!, and react mostly negatively to something taken away from them. We feel like it's a personal infringement of our rights. Given time and education we soon become acustomised to the new alternatives. Who'd have thought 20 years ago that we'd be driving electric cars. Growing up I had to make a phone call from a yellow box on the street. Alternatives to lead commonly used today are 100% Copper, which is expensive & 95% Copper 5% Zinc. Which studies have shown to be superior to lead. I'm sure there are many more combinations of metals that will have the same effect we are all used to getting. But no matter what is chosen as the alternative, we are still dumping and polluting our environment. I'm as guilty as everybody else. I'd like to be part of positive change as a responsible shooter.

Footnote:
The downside initially to using alternative rounds is the cost. Manufacturers will need to recoup losses changing over from lead. Once everybody has made the change prices will come down as demand rises. Change is inevitable as is our ability to adapt to it.

If it was about environmental reasons , promoting and encouraging paper cartridges again would of done as much if not more.
Steel shot would need stronger wads and longer cartridges.
And the copper would be no less toxic than lead.

juice1304 · 04-10-2019 9:36am

Bob66 wrote: »

Agreed. Lead is bad.

It is toxic and has been accepted by humanity for a long time. Out of ignorance and habbit. It's what our Fathers used, our military used etc. People don't like change!, and react mostly negatively to something taken away from them. We feel like it's a personal infringement of our rights. Given time and education we soon become acustomised to the new alternatives. Who'd have thought 20 years ago that we'd be driving electric cars. Growing up I had to make a phone call from a yellow box on the street. Alternatives to lead commonly used today are 100% Copper, which is expensive & 95% Copper 5% Zinc. Which studies have shown to be superior to lead. I'm sure there are many more combinations of metals that will have the same effect we are all used to getting. But no matter what is chosen as the alternative, we are still dumping and polluting our environment. I'm as guilty as everybody else. I'd like to be part of positive change as a responsible shooter.

Footnote:
The downside initially to using alternative rounds is the cost. Manufacturers will need to recoup losses changing over from lead. Once everybody has made the change prices will come down as demand rises. Change is inevitable as is our ability to adapt to it.

It has nothing to do with ignorance, it has everything to do with science...:pac:
The only other metal on the planet that shares the same properties/characteristics is gold
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxNbbW9i7rvFcOuQwOKSnEBazM4N3V7gydHObN8yf1aM7wmKFRlA

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxNbbW9i7rvFcOuQwOKSnEBazM4N3V7gydHObN8yf1aM7wmKFRlA

, all you have to do is look at the periodic table.

Trust me there is no alternative that is superior. And i know and have spoken with people whose livelihood it is to research these things, including the people in charge of research and development at RWS.
Copper projectiles are also far more dangerous.
They are using it as a means of making a large amount of firearms obsolete and as a means of virtue signaling.
There is a reason they use solid rounds in Africa for penetrating the skulls and bodies of elephant and buffalo.
Having also lived in Germany where they already have a ban on lead projectiles for hunting in several Bundesland i can tell you that these alternatives are terrible and often punch a tiny hole in deer and exit, in the same manner, leaving the animal wounded. Not only did i see this first-hand numerous times but also had several customers complaining on a weekly basis.

Which is why we saw no change in our ammunition sales as everyone still uses lead rounds and carries one or two Evo green with them in their pocket. :rolleyes:

If they want to get rid of lead from the enviroment they should start with removing it from roofs.

Grizzly 45 · 04-10-2019 2:05pm

juice1304 wrote: »

Which is why we saw no change in our ammunition sales as everyone still uses lead rounds and carries one or two Evo green with them in their pocket. :rolleyes:
.

SNAP!!!:D

oldgit1897 · 04-10-2019 3:41pm

Its tokenism from the EU pure and simple, nothing to do with anything environmental. The EU commission and parliament have recently voted themselves double the free air travel miles they are entitled too, that wasn't very green and touchy feely was it ? Of course our quisling "leader" pounced on it to be seen as green, thankfully his time is nearly up.

The eu are hoping people will see the new laws and give up, turn in their guns and not bother with the sport anymore. I wonder will they be looking for lead-free knives after the stabbings in Paris yesterday, things have moved on , terrorists are not interested in firearms anymore, trucks and blades are where its at.

oldgit1897 · 04-10-2019 3:51pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

I always get surprised when you get a first post with so much contrary opinion
The is no alternative metal that is a direct replacement for lead.
Why should we be forced to except the removal of lead on the whim of an unelected eurocrat

I wonder why the Brit's voted for Brexit

.

Grizzly 45 · 04-10-2019 11:14pm

But then again,the Brits are so damaged by their on gun and knife laws, the EU couldnt hurt them any further.

oldgit1897 · 05-10-2019 5:14pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But then again,the Brits are so damaged by their on gun and knife laws, the EU couldnt hurt them any further.

It was nothing to do with gun or knife laws really though, but the ability to govern yourself, make your own laws and rules. The eu has too much say about everything, even what wattage your bloody vacuum cleaner can be. :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 05-10-2019 8:30pm

My point being, anything the EU could come up with on knife&gun laws are nothing to what the UK parliment has inflicted on its own subjects over the last 25 years,and I doubt HM govt will reverse any of those laws post Brexit either. So while you Britons might be leaving,its on a very badly holed and damaged and rather archaic shipwhen it comes to personal freedoms.:)

juice1304 · 05-10-2019 9:21pm

Their laws are far better than ours. in my opinion.
A gunsmith can get approval from the local super and work from home with nothing more than a safe,
you can own full auto with the proper license., I know someone with a collection of 400 full auto firearms there. It's extremely rare and not something a normal citizen could do unless a serious bonafide collector. However the possibility is actually there.
You can still own section 5 firearms if you show a valid reason, much the same as our restricted licence.
Practical shooting is legal there.
you can own a single shot pistol for dispatching deer.
their license is much better than our joke of a system where you need a licence for every firearm etc..

Grizzly 45 · 06-10-2019 11:02am

juice1304 wrote: »

Their laws are far better than ours. in my opinion.
A gunsmith can get approval from the local super and work from home with nothing more than a safe,
you can own full auto with the proper license., I know someone with a collection of 400 full auto firearms there. It's extremely rare and not something a normal citizen could do unless a serious bonafide collector. However the possibility is actually there.
You can still own section 5 firearms if you show a valid reason, much the same as our restricted licence.
Practical shooting is legal there.
you can own a single shot pistol for dispatching deer.
their license is much better than our joke of a system where you need a licence for every firearm etc..

Ok ,and in reality how many Brits can in do such?Thats like the it exists/doesent exist Irish concealed carry permit over here.Try gettingv one of those single shot dispatch pistols.Apprently getting a chat with Liz is down in London might be easier.Id even question how long they will have IPSC after their next firearms review,and the hatchet job the Times did on them,and the multiple orgs bumbling reply.Dont look for the extremes of what can be done,rather the possibility of Joe Bloggs being able to do aquire,or liscense.

Eddie B · 06-10-2019 11:39am

juice1304 wrote: »

Their laws are far better than ours. in my opinion.
A gunsmith can get approval from the local super and work from home with nothing more than a safe,
you can own full auto with the proper license., I know someone with a collection of 400 full auto firearms there. It's extremely rare and not something a normal citizen could do unless a serious bonafide collector. However the possibility is actually there.
You can still own section 5 firearms if you show a valid reason, much the same as our restricted licence.
Practical shooting is legal there.
you can own a single shot pistol for dispatching deer.
their license is much better than our joke of a system where you need a licence for every firearm etc..

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ok ,and in reality how many Brits can in do such?Thats like the it exists/doesent exist Irish concealed carry permit over here.Try gettingv one of those single shot dispatch pistols.Apprently getting a chat with Liz is down in London might be easier.Id even question how long they will have IPSC after their next firearms review,and the hatchet job the Times did on them,and the multiple orgs bumbling reply.Dont look for the extremes of what can be done,rather the possibility of Joe Bloggs being able to do aquire,or liscense.

I have to agree with a lot of what juice1304 says. Easy get a single shot pistol. Lads doing earth work use them all the time for dispatching fox. You can use catapults to hunt with. You can use calls for hunting vermin, and to call deer. No licence required for air rifles. Trapping legislation is clear, with little chance of mis interpretation. Legislation here is a bloody mess compared to that in the UK.

Grizzly 45 · 06-10-2019 1:21pm

Eddie B wrote: »

I have to agree with a lot of what juice1304 says. Easy get a single shot pistol. Lads doing earth work use them all the time for dispatching fox. You can use catapults to hunt with. You can use calls for hunting vermin, and to call deer. No licence required for air rifles. Trapping legislation is clear, with little chance of mis interpretation. Legislation here is a bloody mess compared to that in the UK.

You mean in the "single shot pistols" something like this???https://www.gunstar.co.uk/radikal-sbx-single-shot/Pistol-Hand-Guns/1110825
A 13 in smoothbore 410.[Availabe in 9mm too]But try getting the exemption to use 410 slugs,and its into sect 5[?] category

OTOH we still have proper CF pistols here,albeit limited numbers,Can get relatively easily enough licensed for .22 handguns,Can still get CF semi auto rifles and restricted shotguns.[Which the Brits are very jealous of BTW] We dont have anti hunting loons harrassing us at every turn [yet] and "SWATting" us when out piegon or duck hunting.Nor do we have a paranoid police force who are boasting on FB on how they removed dangerous weapons from the streets..IE a butter knife,and arresting people for being in public with a POTATO PEELER!!!
Nor do we have to go bother our doctors for medical certs to be included to say we arent cuckoo for our applications,or do we have AGS trolling FB and Twatter for mean tweets and offensive "hate speech" likes and comments to deny us a liscense as we might be "alt right wing"...YET!

Even our vauge laws can be of benefit.IE "the suitable ammo container" debate.In the UK that would be spelled out exactly what they want,and you would REALLY see the bitch&and moan here from us all having to install strong boxes or whatever into our cars.:pac:

So are we or the UK any better off?Call it a draw.They have some things better,as do we.

oldgit1897 · 06-10-2019 2:36pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You mean in the "single shot pistols" something like this???https://www.gunstar.co.uk/radikal-sbx-single-shot/Pistol-Hand-Guns/1110825
A 13 in smoothbore 410.[Availabe in 9mm too]But try getting the exemption to use 410 slugs,and its into sect 5[?] category

OTOH we still have proper CF pistols here,albeit limited numbers,Can get relatively easily enough licensed for .22 handguns,Can still get CF semi auto rifles and restricted shotguns.[Which the Brits are very jealous of BTW] We dont have anti hunting loons harrassing us at every turn [yet] and "SWATting" us when out piegon or duck hunting.Nor do we have a paranoid police force who are boasting on FB on how they removed dangerous weapons from the streets..IE a butter knife,and arresting people for being in public with a POTATO PEELER!!!
Nor do we have to go bother our doctors for medical certs to be included to say we arent cuckoo for our applications,or do we have AGS trolling FB and Twatter for mean tweets and offensive "hate speech" likes and comments to deny us a liscense as we might be "alt right wing"...YET!

Even our vauge laws can be of benefit.IE "the suitable ammo container" debate.In the UK that would be spelled out exactly what they want,and you would REALLY see the bitch&and moan here from us all having to install strong boxes or whatever into our cars.:pac:

So are we or the UK any better off?Call it a draw.They have some things better,as do we.

That will happen here too and not too far in the future either. I know a few lads in the uk who are big into shooting, things aren't as bad as you would imagine over there. There seems to be a lot more decent centrefire rifle ranges over there, many are old military ranges, something verboten here afaik.

Scotland seems hell bent on restricting things though, air rifles are now licencable, but it seems they don't like shooting on class warfare grounds :rolleyes:.

meathstevie · 06-10-2019 7:33pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

It was nothing to do with gun or knife laws really though, but the ability to govern yourself, make your own laws and rules. The eu has too much say about everything, even what wattage your bloody vacuum cleaner can be. :rolleyes:

EU directives are supra national legislation but do you know how these decisions are made ? Collectively by government ministers of all the member states. That’s why the whole Brexit spin is essentially nothing but an ultimately very expensive and troublesome fallacy.

The EU does not decide anything out of thin air or by itself since it’s nothing more than an organisation that decides collectively on matters that national governments ( in Ireland’s case the people ) of member states have agreed to deal with on a supra national level. All relevant decisions are made by national governments in the Council of Ministers.

Grizzly 45 · 06-10-2019 10:46pm

meathstevie wrote: »

EU directives are supra national legislation but do you know how these decisions are made ? Collectively by government ministers of all the member states.

In a session called a TRILOUGE. An unaacountable,un recorded,closed to the public,outside the EU system of parlimentary protocol star chamber session.That can literally go on non stop for over 24 hours plus...Can you imagine the mental state that some our legislators are in when laws affecting millions ae drafted???

https://euobserver.com/investigations/123555

. https://edri.org/trilogues-the-system-that-undermines-eu-democracy-and-transparency/

The EU does not decide anything out of thin air or by itself since it’s nothing more than an organisation that decides collectively on matters that national governments ( in Ireland’s case the people ) of member states have agreed to deal with on a supra national level.

Like a Green Swedish Socialist cow deciding that post a multiple terrorist attack in Paris, 24 hours laterthis would be a great time to ban civillian firearm ownership EU wide ,before even the body count was known or the bodies had been accounted for?:mad:

All relevant decisions are made by national governments in the Council of Ministers.

That's the rubber stamping and eyewash for the people out there.Been long decided before it even gets there.

meathstevie · 07-10-2019 11:27am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In a session called a TRILOUGE. An unaacountable,un recorded,closed to the public,outside the EU system of parlimentary protocol star chamber session.That can literally go on non stop for over 24 hours plus...Can you imagine the mental state that some our legislators are in when laws affecting millions ae drafted???

https://euobserver.com/investigations/123555

. https://edri.org/trilogues-the-system-that-undermines-eu-democracy-and-transparency/

Like a Green Swedish Socialist cow deciding that post a multiple terrorist attack in Paris, 24 hours laterthis would be a great time to ban civillian firearm ownership EU wide ,before even the body count was known or the bodies had been accounted for?:mad:

That's the rubber stamping and eyewash for the people out there.Been long decided before it even gets there.

Just like a cabinet meeting at government buildings so where just as after Paris and our Scandinavian friend some rather shortsighted people come up with piles of steaming horse ****e knee jerk panic policies and legislation.

The only successful legislation that ever came out of such a frame of mind was the legislation setting up the CAB but that was probably inspired by a handful of competent professionals having a word in a few ministers’ ears about how to hit criminals where it hurts.

Unfortunately these days the spin doctor and the sound bite merchant have the upper hand over the professional.

You only need to look at all the “new legislation” that has been introduced and proposed around the likes of revenge porn, domestic abuse, conducting of certain types of criminal trials and so on.

Some of it may do more harm than good while misuse of telecommunications, assault, rape and indecent assault have been on the books as offences carrying potentially serious tariffs for decades if not longer.

The only thing wrong with the lot is the lack of enforcing existing legislation but concentrating on that of course denies the back bench gombeen their five minutes in front of the RTÉ camera.

Grizzly 45 · 07-10-2019 1:22pm

Back OT.
https://www.leadinammunition.com

Sofar THE best website on information revelant to lead ammo. Please pass this on,and post to NARGC,and other revelant bodies.

Grizzly 45 · 07-10-2019 1:26pm

This is one EVERY organisation head and you yourselves should read!

https://www.leadinammunition.com/news-world-002/?fbclid=IwAR2dV4zbRe9HvtESREgokNIt-pqOVFurWBHRDUHNxDuoNNPCHdt3RAo4zcQ

Grizzly 45 · 07-10-2019 1:31pm

Europen Chemical Agency wants to hear from its EU subjects on why they should NOT ban lead in ammo.
You chance to vent your spleen ,politely of course,,with these people.

https://comments.echa.europa.eu/comments_cms/CallForEvidence.aspx?RObjectId=0b0236e184015b61&fbclid=IwAR3EU_eAwJrAWB06bWReo07Uv70KiUgGubAK

oldgit1897 · 07-10-2019 4:36pm

meathstevie wrote: »

EU directives are supra national legislation but do you know how these decisions are made ? Collectively by government ministers of all the member states. That’s why the whole Brexit spin is essentially nothing but an ultimately very expensive and troublesome fallacy.

The EU does not decide anything out of thin air or by itself since it’s nothing more than an organisation that decides collectively on matters that national governments ( in Ireland’s case the people ) of member states have agreed to deal with on a supra national level. All relevant decisions are made by national governments in the Council of Ministers.

Yeah, a camel is a horse designed by a committee, that committee is the eu. As for decision making and democracy in the eu ;

"We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

That quote is by Jean claude Junker eu preseident.

meathstevie · 07-10-2019 7:24pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Yeah, a camel is a horse designed by a committee, that committee is the eu. As for decision making and democracy in the eu ;

"We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

That quote is by Jean claude Junker eu preseident.

And that’s exactly the same way as in which national government implements it’s more unpalatable policies.

Either dress it up in a cloak of public safety, which was done to effectively ban guns that weren’t used to harm anyone, or slip it in a heap of quickly quickly before we feck off for eight weeks over Christmas legislation.

Cass · 09-10-2019 2:28pm

Anyone get any word from the NARGC on their meeting last week?

onetimecypher · 16-10-2019 12:15pm

First they came for the lead, now coming for the steel that replaced the lead.

https://www.fairandreasonable.co.nz/media_release_colfo_plans_court_action_over_ammo_ban

TeaBagMania · 16-10-2019 1:08pm

see, like i said, you give them an inch... and this is what happens

they wont be happy until we're hunting with rocks

berettaman · 16-10-2019 4:49pm

TeaBagMania wrote: »

see, like i said, you give them an inch... and this is what happens

they wont be happy until we're hunting with rocks

Sorry man,

They wont be happy until we are not hunting...:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 · 16-10-2019 8:33pm

This is what happens when the utterly ignorant or downright politically emotive agenda driven malicious legislate on subjects they have ZERO knowledge on,and do not wish to be informed or enlightned on the matter by anyone with knowledge on th topic.:mad:

meathstevie · 17-10-2019 12:21am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This is what happens when the utterly ignorant or downright politically emotive agenda driven malicious legislate on subjects they have ZERO knowledge on,and do not wish to be informed or enlightned on the matter by anyone with knowledge on th topic.:mad:

Hear, hear !! Nothing good ever came from knee jerk emotive legislation.

Look at Ireland and organised crime linked murders.

As a result licensed full bore pistols were essentially banned.

Not all these murders involved the use of full bore pistols.

None were committed with a licensed pistol by the license holder by the way.

All these murders involved the use of some form of gataway vehicles so why have private motor vehicles not been banned ?

Grizzly 45 · 06-11-2019 10:06pm

You heard it here first!!! This literally 4 hours old!!!
You had better get onto NARGC/FACE if you want to start making changes.

Lead BAN:
(Note - It seems that REACH committee will be the best change against ban - and meeting is on 19th!)

Please note the following important developments:
On 17 August 2018, the opinion[1] of the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) on restricting lead shot over wetlands was sent to the European Commission (EC).
On 28 October 2019, the EC produced its proposal for the REACH Regulation (see here and here).
There will be a discussion by Member States on the EC’s proposal in the EU REACH Committee meeting on 19 November 2019 (see link[2]).
EU FACE Members are required to urgently contact your Governments with the enclosed draft letter[3].

Decision-making and the importance of lobbying:
The only realistic scope to change the text of this regulation is through the EU REACH Committee where a qualified majority[4] of Member States’ Governments would need to take a firm position to change the text of the EC’s proposal. This means that the majority of EU governments, especially the bigger EU countries, need to take a strong position, supporting similar (FACE) amendments. In this context, all FACE Members are requested to immediately lobby their Governments.

Oh yeah,apprently the Danish and Swede hunting organisations are selling us down the river.They pushed for a complete ban of lead in wetlands,but are saying now they arent pushing any further on this.Seeing that the genie is out of the bottle,and running amuck. And worse it seems that the ban on wetlands shooting with lead might already be a done deal!:(:(:(

This is why I can't stress this enough!We can't rely on organisations on a national level here to be up to date on things by getting information 2nd hand a week from now and WHY it is so important to keep a wtchful eye on what goes on in the Barlemont in Brussels as much as the Dail.:mad:

berettaman · 06-11-2019 10:13pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You heard it here first!!! This literally 4 hours old!!!
You had better get onto NARGC/FACE if you want to start making changes.

Lead BAN:
(Note - It seems that REACH committee will be the best change against ban - and meeting is on 19th!)

Please note the following important developments:
On 17 August 2018, the opinion[1] of the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) on restricting lead shot over wetlands was sent to the European Commission (EC).
On 28 October 2019, the EC produced its proposal for the REACH Regulation (see here and here).
There will be a discussion by Member States on the EC’s proposal in the EU REACH Committee meeting on 19 November 2019 (see link[2]).
EU FACE Members are required to urgently contact your Governments with the enclosed draft letter[3].

Decision-making and the importance of lobbying:
The only realistic scope to change the text of this regulation is through the EU REACH Committee where a qualified majority[4] of Member States’ Governments would need to take a firm position to change the text of the EC’s proposal. This means that the majority of EU governments, especially the bigger EU countries, need to take a strong position, supporting similar (FACE) amendments. In this context, all FACE Members are requested to immediately lobby their Governments.

Oh yeah,apprently the Danish and Swede hunting organisations are selling us down the river.They pushed for a complete ban of lead in wetlands,but are saying now they arent pushing any further on this.Seeing that the genie is out of the bottle,and running amuck. And worse it seems that the ban on wetlands shooting with lead might already be a done deal!:(:(:(

This is why I can't stress this enough!We can't rely on organisations on a national level here to be up to date on things by getting information 2nd hand a week from now and WHY it is so important to keep a wtchful eye on what goes on in the Barlemont in Brussels as much as the Dail.:mad:

I understand that Representatives of the NARGC were in Brussels.

I am led to believe that France are now aligned with the Irish viewpoint. NARGC Chairman has a lot of work done on this. A lot of Scandanavian hunting Associations get a cut of the Firearms licence fee so they will always tow the party line.

You are right, much lobbying to do in addition to what has gone on before.

Mississippi. · 06-11-2019 11:00pm

Can not see any link to the " enclosed draft letter " ?

grassroot1 · 06-11-2019 11:07pm

The NARGC have done a lot of work on this at one point they were the only hunter organisation in Europe pushing back against the lead ban. The current chairman has done a lot of work here and in Europe.
That said send an email to your TD asap demanding the ban is stopped we are really in the 11th hour on this one and unless Leo has a full in box on Monday we really are finished. We need 4 countries to object let's at least make sure Ireland is one.

oldgit1897 · 06-11-2019 11:18pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

The NARGC have done a lot of work on this at one point they were the only hunter organisation in Europe pushing back against the lead ban. The current chairman has done a lot of work here and in Europe.
That said send an email to your TD asap demanding the ban is stopped we are really in the 11th hour on this one and unless Leo has a full in box on Monday we really are finished. We need 4 countries to object let's at least make sure Ireland is one.

If Leo has his way he will sign lead away, he is trying to out-green the greens and has disowned the conservative rural part of fg already, the farmers and estates that have fishing and shooting, etc.

Grizzly 45 · 07-11-2019 12:19am

Lads...He doesnt need just his inbox full of emails.He needs his office snowed under with letters or postcards[even better].German shooters are sending literally Xerox paper boxes full of letters and postcards to Min Seehofers office on a daily basis on the proposed implimentation ofthe EU gun ban in Germany. We need to be doing the same to every TD we have here.
Is a fiver worth of stamps and a plain post card too much for you to fight for your sport?With a simple message written on it like
"Dear Minister Dirtbird.I am against the proposed EU leadban.For the reasons why,please refer to the following shooting organisations webpage" Sincerely...
Why this old school method?It's too easy to block and delete emails as spam these days.A different matter to get rid of thousands of letters and postcards. Some have even suggested taping a five cent piece to the postcard as a "political donation to the party"so then the party is obliged by law to respond to you for the donation.Worth thinking about...

dto001 · 07-11-2019 2:21am

Does anyone have a copy of the letter to send to your TD?

Grizzly 45 · 15-11-2019 1:47pm

Right folks,here is a nice detailed article[with maps] of what is defined as a "wetland" in Europe. Thats almost HALF of Ireland,and this is without the buffer zones proposed by the EU!!:eek:[Read a 400 meter lead free zone around any "wetland" which is very ambigiously defined sofar in this draft.But as it stands ye can forget shooting on any lakes or other open body of water] And yeah it will affect ranges as well here,as how many of them are built out on bogs or "wetland"?

I'd suggest printing this article and passing it onto fellow non interweb using shooters.Your clubs and TDs and legislative bodies.Because if this does get thru in Ireland we are utterly goosed!!

I would also suggest Regina O Dohertys office should be flooded by postcards,a design I can get made within a few days,or if someone is good with graphics here in less time, complaining about her attitude to the EU directive...But I think it would be too much to ask Irish shooters to be arsed to do somthing like print off some post cards or letters and spend a fivers worth on stamps to support their sport.:rolleyes:

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/complete-ban-on-lead-shot-ammunition-for-hunters-and-shooters/?fbclid=IwAR29MccRz6ffOnb_Mrt1d9V0jKjBrZ-Rec06aUtKa2hwYrETBjB_witQbr4

ZiabR · 15-11-2019 2:53pm

Not to mention the impact it will have on the industry in Europe. I mean if this does come in, it will potentially render half of the firearms in the EU obsolete. The costs involved with this are massive. I know for myself, my guns are not steel shot proofed as they are a little older. So if I want to continue in the sport I love, I am going to have to fork out for a new gun. That and the fact that my current guns wont be sell-able.

Its a complete belt and braces approach without any regard for the scientific research and evidence.

This could put alot of people out of business.

Just how close is this to getting passed across the EU?

oldgit1897 · 15-11-2019 10:54pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Right folks,here is a nice detailed article[with maps] of what is defined as a "wetland" in Europe. Thats almost HALF of Ireland,and this is without the buffer zones proposed by the EU!!:eek:[Read a 400 meter lead free zone around any "wetland" which is very ambigiously defined sofar in this draft.But as it stands ye can forget shooting on any lakes or other open body of water] And yeah it will affect ranges as well here,as how many of them are built out on bogs or "wetland"?

I'd suggest printing this article and passing it onto fellow non interweb using shooters.Your clubs and TDs and legislative bodies.Because if this does get thru in Ireland we are utterly goosed!!

I would also suggest Regina O Dohertys office should be flooded by postcards,a design I can get made within a few days,or if someone is good with graphics here in less time, complaining about her attitude to the EU directive...But I think it would be too much to ask Irish shooters to be arsed to do somthing like print off some post cards or letters and spend a fivers worth on stamps to support their sport.:rolleyes:

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/complete-ban-on-lead-shot-ammunition-for-hunters-and-shooters/?fbclid=IwAR29MccRz6ffOnb_Mrt1d9V0jKjBrZ-Rec06aUtKa2hwYrETBjB_witQbr4

Someone is taking the rise with that map, France, Germany, Italy and huge swathes of eastern europe with little or no wetland marked. I would imagine french farmland is very like Irish farmland, so why the discrepancy ?

dto001 · 16-11-2019 6:31am

Emailed (away with work,so not able to post anything) all MEP's, members of the European commission and Local TD's but looking at who's in there I'm not fully convinced we'll have any support :mad::mad::mad:

berettaman · 16-11-2019 11:55am

dto001 wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the letter to send to your TD?

See below from our RGC secretary..

Dear Sir /Madam,
As you may be aware the REACH committee (European Chemicals Agency) are about to sign off on a ban on lead used in ammunition. The alternatives for lead are either:
(i)Too expensive
(ii) Have inferior ballistic qualities
(iii) Compromise gun safety

Some implications of this proposed ban are outlined below:
· Older shotguns will not be able to take the higher pressures required with steel ammunition. Hunter’s guns will generally be of a vintage that is unsuitable for steel.

· Manufacturers will not make bullets in a calibre smaller than .223(most hunters will have a .22 rifle which will not have ammunition available). These guns will have to be scrapped.

· If someone is accidently shot with lead, unless it is at close range the lead will not need to be removed as it is an inert metal. Steel unfortunately will rust so amputation maybe the only resort as it would be extremely difficult to remove.

· Steel shot is detrimental to commercial forestry plantations.

The Irish Government are signing up to this without infrastructure in place (such as a Proof House), and without proper assessment of what this will cost Irish Firearm License holders.

For many people in rural Ireland the sport of shooting is a rural pursuit that provides much needed social interaction and is a boost to mental health and physical fitness. Not to mention the financial boost shooting provides to the rural economy at the least busy time of year.

Many farmers will consider a firearm a useful tool on the farm in terms of crop and flock protection.

We are asking you to make it clear that Ireland is totally opposed to a ban on lead in sporting firearms.

It is vital that you and your party make contact with Ireland’s representative on the REACH committee.

Feel free to adapt and use..

Grizzly 45 · 16-11-2019 12:40pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Someone is taking the rise with that map, France, Germany, Italy and huge swathes of eastern europe with little or no wetland marked. I would imagine french farmland is very like Irish farmland, so why the discrepancy ?

Take a WAG as to who has then a much more efficent and on the ball lobbying group nationally in both farmers and shooters to be able to wipe this then?;)

Grizzly 45 · 16-11-2019 12:44pm

berettaman wrote: »

See below from our RGC secretary..

Dear Sir /Madam,
As you may be aware the REACH committee (European Chemicals Agency) are about to sign off on a ban on lead used in ammunition. The alternatives for lead are either:
(i)Too expensive
(ii) Have inferior ballistic qualities
(iii) Compromise gun safety ...............................ETC

Its good,but in this case pen to paper or printer ink to paper. Emails can be ignored or sent to Spam folders. Paper is alot more difficult to ignore,especially if it arrives by the Xerox paper box load.

Grizzly 45 · 16-11-2019 1:48pm

Here is a template link for the EU heads and our Irish and ALL MEPS that are there.There is a search engine link at the bottom of the letter.

The second letter,please feel free to use for our national repersentatives,just change out any reference to the EU to Irish references,and in the last line from

Your action on this matter will influence my vote in the next EUParl elections.

TO

Your action on this matter will influence my vote in the next upcoming national elections.

Get to it,if you want our sport to survive
https://firearms-united.com/templates/?fbclid=IwAR0sP0elzWAdXB4KuLuqAyWcyG6T-sNzO3qwSTp7A92UEUHYFlpNxO7nb7I

berettaman · 17-11-2019 12:59pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Its good,but in this case pen to paper or printer ink to paper. Emails can be ignored or sent to Spam folders. Paper is alot more difficult to ignore,especially if it arrives by the Xerox paper box load.

Spot on. I know my RGC is putting a few bob into this and writing to all the members of the oireachtas..

Emails can be ignored, it s is a **** load of postal grief they need, if you can't lick a stamp to save your sport then take up snooker..:rolleyes:

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