Lead ban

Grizzly 45

richiedel123 wrote: »

I heard another rumour and it maybe only a rumour that another idea is they will not give the licence for cartridge and bullet manufacturers to make them. That will dry up the supply of them very fast too

Well that would make more sense rather than sending people around with magnets to check our ammo.Eventually,we will just use up the lead ammo and need to use alternative to non existant lead.

richiedel123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well that would make more sense rather than sending people around with magnets to check our ammo.Eventually,we will just use up the lead ammo and need to use alternative to non existant lead.

That's only a rumour but the law being talked about is that it's an offence to have lead bullets / cartridges in your possession. That means it will take 1 or 2 poor unfortunates to be caught with lead in their possession (if it passes) and everybody else will start not using it for fear of getting caught.
Tbh the only easy way out of this is to stop it from coming in at all. We all know the Irish government will do nothing on this unless we make enough noise. And we have the perfect platform now with elections a few days away

Grizzly 45

If you google alternative to lead shot,there are enough US articles in gun mags and websites extolling the virtues of non lead ammo.
So hardly selling out.

Grizzly 45

richiedel123 wrote: »

That's only a rumour but the law being talked about is that it's an offence to have lead bullets / cartridges

Its not law yet nationally for a start.Its a still a consultation stage directive in the EU.So there is still time.But we do need to rattle the politicos.
Think our biggest worry is the whole country becoming wetland under EU diktats.

grassroot1

On a side issue who are the sporting right owners association
How does one join

Grizzly 45

FFS!!! I think I'll change my name to "Cassandra of Troy"! The soothsayer who forsaw the whole debacle of the fall and sacking of Troy over a love affair and went into the streets of Troy proclaiming the prophecy only to be derided and ignored.:rolleyes:

This has been on the cards since at least 2016 and I dont know how many times this has been pointed out here, to organisations,to chats in gun clubs.Did you all put in a reply to this via the EU website when it was open to public consultations for most of 2017? Did your gun club?Your national governing bodies? Or were you told "Dont worry..FACE is looking after it in Europe?" [At a time when FACE was going thru some serious intrnal turmoil itself]

Now ,everyone is running about ,again,like headless chickens with the sky is falling squwaking.Is it finally dawning on everyone now,that if you have a gun anywhere in the EU ,if you want to keep it you need to start getting your sht together,like all in one place and squared away in a sht backpack,and start getting proactive on these issues!!

Unless of course,you'd all like to end up like the UK,NZ,Canada,Austrailia and everywhere else that was caught swinging their dicks,when the **** got very real!! Better start getting our **** in order here people,and we had better start procting,not reacting to events or we WILL be the last generation going shooting in Ireland!:mad:

Grizzly 45

grassroot1 wrote: »

On a side issue who are the sporting right owners association
How does one join

Taken from their submission to the deer management policy vision 12/10/12
Address
Sporting Rights Owners Association Ireland
Lecarrow House, Spencer Harbour
Drumkeeran, Co. Leitrim
Phone: 071-9648960, Email: jojosch4@gmail.com

grassroot1

Grizzly 45 wrote:

This has been on the cards since at least 2016 and I dont know how many times this has been pointed out here, to organisations,to chats in gun clubs.Did you all put in a reply to this via the EU website when it was open to public consultations for most of 2017? Did your gun club?Your national governing bodies? Or were you told "Dont worry..FACE is looking after it in Europe?" [At a time when FACE was going thru some serious intrnal turmoil itself]

Point of order
Well now I know a few who have been working hard. They have be in discussions with the relevant agencies but were being ignored/passed off etc
You may be of the opinion that some are running around like headless chickens but until the chickens run around the politicians ignore the issues.
On a similar vein I was at a wildfowling club meeting last week and no one knew anything about the lead ban.
I know they were informed because I was there when their representative was told about it.

Grizzly 45

Well now I know a few who have been working hard. They have be in discussions with the relevant agencies but were being ignored/passed off etc

Exactly and thanks[?] Now ask,WHY are those who do bring these issues up being ignored or passed off by the revelant agencies??? There is this utterly horrible situation here of ignoring the blips on the radar in all aspects of Irish societies organisations,until literally there are multiple incoming missiles outside the damn window! The utter cluster fuk of 2006 pistol ban springs to mind ..It seems we can manage betimes to beat off national events,like the proposed 2015 all ban attempt,when people arent looking about to gain an upper hand over each other,or profit from it.But when it comes to EU affairs,we are utter raw amatuers.

You may be of the opinion that some are running around like headless chickens but until the chickens run around the politicians ignore the issues.

Why were said chickens not going to their politicans two years ago with this issue,if they had been informed and knew it was in the pipe?

On a similar vein I was at a wildfowling club meeting last week and no one knew anything about the lead ban.
I know they were informed because I was there when their representative was told about it

So there is a disconnect of info right there! Members dont know,Rep does.Rep fails,ignores,wilfully witholds info on a critical matter...Bad rep.fire and replace /re elect.With authortihy comes responsibility,why is it that here that saying is seemingly excused all the time for major fuk ups?No one is ever responsible.No one ever is sanctioned for their screwups.Instead you get promoted or rewarded for your screw ups.:rolleyes:

GooseB

'Copper' .22 rounds are solid lead with a thin copper wash over them. You can scrape it off with your nail.

Not necessarily

JohnFitz2332

GooseB wrote: »

Not necessarily

I had just copied a similar link to paste it on this thread haha

JohnFitz2332

GooseB wrote: »

Not necessarily

Can't see it for sale in ireland from a Web search anyway

Cass

Split the off topic posts into their Off topic thread..

Zxthinger

One offering in this ammo type does not meaning anything in fact it demonstrates that no real alternative has yet been found.

They'd be better served dealing with plastics that are causing real issues than worrying about a natural metal that's used on every roof in the land and Km's of drinking water pipes.

Mississippi.

They will fire steel shot but they will have to be proofed to say it's safe to fire steel. It's only newer guns that are proofed for steel.
The older ones will need to be sent to England to be proofed as we have no proof house in this country.



Hi ,I'm just wondering what all is involved in proofing a shotgun.

Is it just firing some specific heavy loads through it in a controlled jig or something and then checking it for fractures or cracks?

Would it not be the case that a lighter proofed one would not explode right away and would only fail with prolonged use?

My own is stamped 65 MPa , I wonder if it was only tested to that or did they carry on testing to higher pressures in the factory till they determined the failing point?

It's fixed choke half and full so I guess it's not suitable for steel shot anyway.

Just some thoughts I have about it
???

oldgit1897

I seen pictures of barrels online that look like they have had straight rifling cut along them, wear from steel shot. Anyone i heard of using steel shot on game thought they were a very poor substitute for lead, lots of wounded birds.

meathstevie

oldgit1897 wrote: »

I seen pictures of barrels online that look like they have had straight rifling cut along them, wear from steel shot. Anyone i heard of using steel shot on game thought they were a very poor substitute for lead, lots of wounded birds.

Personally I found that when shooting pigeons with steel shot I could get clean reliable kills only as far as 2/3 of the range I would reliably drop them with lead shot.

cookimonster

Ok so, doing a bit of research and I've got two shot guns in hand.
The semi is good to go, manufactured / proofed and supplied with chokes (big difference in diameter between say a Mod Steel and Mod Lead choke tube) for steel shot. No problems as to function and safety.
The O/U (French make) of undetermined age as yet, but the proof marks began in 1923. The model of the shoot gun starts around the late 60's but I suspect the shotgun itself is date around the early 1980's. The gun has 70mm chambers, Full & 1/2 chokes and is stamped 1,200 BAR.
From what I'm reading (multiple international agencies and gun articles) the O/U should be good to go for Standard Steel Shot in both barrels:
'Standard Steel cartridges can be fired through
any gun proved to the standard level (ie most “Nitro” proved guns, proved to at least 930 bar) and through any choke'. ( https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php%3Fid%3D723&ved=2ahUKEwjdlbqMl83iAhWToXEKHb9IBmcQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2cbdc88aBolGPhhRRtpQAt).
(BE AWARE: even with steel shot proofed guns it is not recommended to use a choke greater than a half for shot sizes BB (4.1mm) or larger).

Am I reading this right or am I missing something?

Grizzly 45

Shin Fein doing abit of bandwagon jumping on this issue?Or something more?

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/new-gun-laws-unworkable-without-farmer-and-owner-dialogue/

grassroot1

Grizzly 45 wrote:

Shin Fein doing abit of bandwagon jumping on this issue?Or something more?

Maybe he just earning his corn I give him the benefit of the doubt on this one

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Shin Fein doing abit of bandwagon jumping on this issue?Or something more?

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/new-gun-laws-unworkable-without-farmer-and-owner-dialogue/

He's rural so he may actually be really representing the opinion of his electorate. An uncommon trait in a politician truth be told.....

Eddie B

This has not gone away, and after reading this, it shows what we're up against. The remarks at the bottom by the councillors, shows the type of idiots we vote for to represent us.

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/news/434792/kildare-council-gun-motion-shot-down.html

berettaman

Eddie B wrote: »

This has not gone away, and after reading this, it shows what we're up against. The remarks at the bottom by the councillors, shows the type of idiots we vote for to represent us.

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/news/434792/kildare-council-gun-motion-shot-down.html

I should probably not be surprised any more about the level of ignorance surrounding shooting sports in Ireland.


The picture that the article leads with is quite frankly insulting.

grassroot1

There is an article in the Anglo celt that's far more informative and accurate. I cant link it from where I am now maybe Nec could post it

Username Exists.

Feel free to email the author. I have.

henry.bauress@leinsterleader.ie

Grizzly 45

Geeesh!! Why is it that we have to have people speaking about shooting in Ireland in politics on our behalf that are either;[1] Considerd redneck hill billies from Kerry or [2] from an orginasation that has been involved with terrorism for 35 years in Northern Ireland? With friends like these...

The article itself isnt bad,its what these councillors said that is more offensive.And it would behoove us to be emailing,writing and ringing them pointiong out their error of their ways.

cavan shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

There is an article in the Anglo celt that's far more informative and accurate. I cant link it from where I am now maybe Nec could post it

The Article in the Celt we hope will be available on line, chatting to a lad on the CRGC executive the reporter spoke to a lot of people and was very fair. When I read it I was very surprised at some inaccuracies from an individual who should really know better, but then again, I shouldn't have been surprised. It looks like the Whip is out.

solarwinds

A lot of those comments from the politicians were the typical knee jerk populist tripe that is fashionable today, "we dont want to become America" and "there are far too many shotguns out there". That as usual is what can be expected from our leaders.
I wonder would it have more to do with the party who brought the motion as opposed to the motion itself. How often have you seen a good idea shot down just because the wrong person came up with it.

cavan shooter

Play the topic not the man.

Its too easy and lazy for a politician to take a cheap shot at the opposition. Im of the view that all Fine Gaelers are being whipped and the Fianna Fail lads dont want to open their mouths as it could be them in 10 months time left holding this crock of ****.

Sinn fein and Matt Carthy seems to be the only ones helping us here and are being vocal about it. As soon as another Politician comes out with vocal support I will be one of the first to thank them.

As for the article in the Leinster Leader, I would say that a 6th class newsletter reporter would have done better research and scripted a far better article for their Teacher, . Maybe it was only a report on a meeting but surely there should have been some background information.

Grizzly 45

I'd like to see a clear,conscise and acurate policy statement from SF,on fieldsports and gun ownership before I'd yay or nay them.They have been consistently all over the shop on these topics since before the Good Friday agreement.
It seems to be a "whatever yer havin yourself!" policy.One councillor or TD might be for banning all coursing and fox hunting. 3 counties over there is another who is all for them!
IN NI they are usually calling for gun bans and down here they are now supporting us on the lead shot ban???
Seems to be abit of a cynical populist exercise IMO:rolleyes:,but the enemy of mine enemy an all that...

cavan shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'd like to see a clear,conscise and acurate policy statement from SF,on fieldsports and gun ownership before I'd yay or nay them.They have been consistently all over the shop on these topics since before the Good Friday agreement.
It seems to be a "whatever yer havin yourself!" policy.One councillor or TD might be for banning all coursing and fox hunting. 3 counties over there is another who is all for them!
IN NI they are usually calling for gun bans and down here they are now supporting us on the lead shot ban???
Seems to be abit of a cynical populist exercise IMO:rolleyes:,but the enemy of mine enemy an all that...

I honestly don't give a **** as you say the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But until a particular party has the balls to stand up and back us then if Lucifer was to turn up and try to stop it then i would be behind him all the way.

Every Politician is a flip flopper on shooting issues because so far no one has the balls to stand over the sport, its not pc, if Fianna Fail are pro shooting and hunting then why haven't they opened there mouth on this. Fine Gael are meant to be the party of the Farmer, but since the rural vs urban split has emerged they only want D4 voters.

Labour are the biggest shower on antis going, as for the greens GYO and all that you'd think we should be on a winner their but there infiltrated by a shower of vegan, tofu eating, dandelion wine supping wannabe countryside lovers, who when they move to the country complain about the smell of slurry and the fact the cow **** on the road ruins their bicycle shorts.

So if Shinners want to push this, Thank you Sinn fein , and as I said the next Politician that wants to back us Ill thank him or her too, however the quay is very small from where I am looking

oldgit1897

cavan shooter wrote: »

I honestly don't give a **** as you say the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But until a particular party has the balls to stand up and back us then if Lucifer was to turn up and try to stop it then i would be behind him all the way.

Every Politician is a flip flopper on shooting issues because so far no one has the balls to stand over the sport, its not pc, if Fianna Fail are pro shooting and hunting then why haven't they opened there mouth on this. Fine Gael are meant to be the party of the Farmer, but since the rural vs urban split has emerged they only want D4 voters.

Labour are the biggest shower on antis going, as for the greens GYO and all that you'd think we should be on a winner their but there infiltrated by a shower of vegan, tofu eating, dandelion wine supping wannabe countryside lovers, who when they move to the country complain about the smell of slurry and the fact the cow **** on the road ruins their bicycle shorts.

So if Shinners want to push this, Thank you Sinn fein , and as I said the next Politician that wants to back us Ill thank him or her too, however the quay is very small from where I am looking

I remember in the last few years a senior loudmouth in sinn fein looking for all civilian owned firearms to be stored in garda stations. So they are not friendly towards us at all.

Grizzly 45

^THIS^
My point exactly,they run with the hare and hunt with the hounds on this topic.I remember it was als SF that gave us the hard time in the Dail public enquiry next to Finian Mc Grath,and were aptly and ably dealt with by Sparks on the day.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

^THIS^
My point exactly,they run with the hare and hunt with the hounds on this topic.I remember it was als SF that gave us the hard time in the Dail public enquiry next to Finian Mc Grath,and were aptly and ably dealt with by Sparks on the day.

They are just using us as a stick to beat the opposition, and would happily chuck us under the bus in a heartbeat if and when it suits them.

Benny mcc

oldgit1897 wrote: »

They are just using us as a stick to beat the opposition, and would happily chuck us under the bus in a heartbeat if and when it suits them.

Exactly

cavan shooter

Ok..I get your point and I cant argue with you on anything you've said bar the factt Mat Mc Carthy has been pushing this very hard. Now tell me what Other political party is going help us.

grassroot1

cavan shooter wrote:

Ok..I get your point and I cant argue with you on anything you've said bar the factt Mat Mc Carthy has been pushing this very hard. Now tell me what Other political party is going help us.

Dont know if they are helping or not but they are keeping it in the news
What was gilland talking about in the Anglo celt when he said we had signed up to a code of practice on night time shooting?

cavan shooter

grassroot1 wrote: »

cavan shooter wrote:

Ok..I get your point and I cant argue with you on anything you've said bar the factt Mat Mc Carthy has been pushing this very hard. Now tell me what Other political party is going help us.

Dont know if they are helping or not but they are keeping it in the news
What was gilland talking about in the Anglo celt when he said we had signed up to a code of practice on night time shooting?

Not sure. Assume he was touting a party line, but that COP for night time shooting was blown out if the water when through the FCP the Sports Coalition of Vested interests (remember them) tried to push it through. It was unworkable overly restrictive and thank **** it's gone.

oldgit1897

cavan shooter wrote: »

Not sure. Assume he was touting a party line, but that COP for night time shooting was blown out if the water when through the FCP the Sports Coalition of Vested interests (remember them) tried to push it through. It was unworkable overly restrictive and thank **** it's gone.

Whatever became of them ?

cavan shooter

Non entity now I hope. What's clear is that they were not representing nobody but themselves, sugesting things that would actually affect shooters not defending them. NARGC left and so did ICTSA. If I remember right That COP was looking for training courses for Lamping foxes, a time limit on when you could go out, notifying the barracks, listing who actually was lamping and telling it to the guards. The SCoVIs well, they weren't fighting it, they suggesting it. With friends like those who needs enemies. They are Still listed as a lobbying group.

Grizzly 45

Need to be talking more to the EU organ grinders than the national monkeys on this lads.Brussels is where this legislation is being drawn up and decided ,not in the Dail.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Need to be talking more to the EU organ grinders than the national monkeys on this lads.Brussels is where this legislation is being drawn up and decided ,not in the Dail.

The eu is a borderline dictatorship, if they want something, then thats what they get. Anyway the irish are not going to pee-off the place that the free money and cushy jobs come from.

Mississippi.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Need to be talking more to the EU organ grinders than the national monkeys on this lads.Brussels is where this legislation is being drawn up and decided ,not in the Dail.

Yeah, you're right, I wonder if Matt Carthy brought it up much at his work over there or is he just making press releases here about it ?

meathstevie

Shinners have become a bit of a rudderless bunch and that's been well reflected in their last electoral outings.

Grizzly 45

oldgit1897 wrote: »

The eu is a borderline dictatorship, if they want something, then thats what they get. Anyway the irish are not going to pee-off the place that the free money and cushy jobs come from.

Not that our lot could change anything ,even if they voted with both hands up. But thats not to say you cant lobby all the other EU MEPS out there,many of them are pro gun,amd we do have two shooting lobby groups in the EU FACE and FUN.
It's not over until the calorie challenged person who identifies as a female gender vocalises some harmonics.:)
We CAN dilute alot of this and in Irelands case we seriously do need to,as otherwise over 80% of the country could be declared a SAC and wetland.Other countries have introduced "barrier areas" prohibiting lead shot on their major water ways prohibiting lead shot.Somthing we should have done years ago,as we are THE only country without any sort of lead policy in shooting in our legislation in the EU.Again,we are going to pay the price of leaving everything on the long finger,and not doing anything.Now others will decide for us.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not that our lot could change anything ,even if they voted with both hands up. But thats not to say you cant lobby all the other EU MEPS out there,many of them are pro gun,amd we do have two shooting lobby groups in the EU FACE and FUN.
It's not over until the calorie challenged person who identifies as a female gender vocalises some harmonics.:)
We CAN dilute alot of this and in Irelands case we seriously do need to,as otherwise over 80% of the country could be declared a SAC and wetland.Other countries have introduced "barrier areas" prohibiting lead shot on their major water ways prohibiting lead shot.Somthing we should have done years ago,as we are THE only country without any sort of lead policy in shooting in our legislation in the EU.Again,we are going to pay the price of leaving everything on the long finger,and not doing anything.Now others will decide for us.

Or we could copy the frogs and learn the gallic shrug. "I am sorry sir, you cannot shoot those lead cartridges here, its wetland", reply with a gallic shrug and a "Meh" and tip on regardless. Its what the french do and it works for them.

cavan shooter

When it comes in and I am very pessimistic that it wont you wont be able to buy lead shot it's a ban on supply.

Eddie B

I honestly don't get the stance people have against SF on this. Would people rather SF were like the rest of the party's, who are in favour of the ban? How would that be beneficial? At least Sinn Fein are making some noise. Without that, this would be kept very quiet, and then, hey presto!! Ban in, no feathers ruffled, and once again the fieldsports community, farmers etc get a kick between the legs, and all we can do is curl up in a pathetic ball.

Grizzly 45

Easily answerd...
Involvement despite their denials with an armed terrorist organisation for 35 years of conflict in NI.Sorry some of us just cant forget that likkle point.
Nor can many others,and having SF repersent shooting is like having Jimmy Saville babysit your kids in PR terms.:eek:

Plus,we have had many SF Td's councillors,etc calling for gun bans in NI and here,we well as ending fieldsports in Ireland.Yet some of their people are involved heavily in coursing and fish and hunt and shoot themselves.



It is a GREAT pity,for them.That not ONE of their MEPs responded to any letters,emails and phone calls,from Firearms United,and thousands of other EU citizens ,when the EU gun ban was going down two years ago!! We were blatantly ignored So now all of a sudden Irish shooters are all important in Brussels because we have suddenly woken up to the fact that the hour is coming of an almighty **** storm is about to descend on the Irish farmer, in his guise as the biggest body of gun owners in Ireland?

Forgive me if I,and many others are a tad skepitcal at their sudden concern for the Irish gunowner.:rolleyes:

Eddie B

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Easily answerd...
Involvement despite their denials with an armed terrorist organisation for 35 years of conflict in NI.Sorry some of us just cant forget that likkle point.
Nor can many others,and having SF repersent shooting is like having Jimmy Saville babysit your kids in PR terms.:eek:

Plus,we have had many SF Td's councillors,etc calling for gun bans in NI and here,we well as ending fieldsports in Ireland.Yet some of their people are involved heavily in coursing and fish and hunt and shoot themselves.



It is a GREAT pity,for them.That not ONE of their MEPs responded to any letters,emails and phone calls,from Firearms United,and thousands of other EU citizens ,when the EU gun ban was going down two years ago!! We were blatantly ignored So now all of a sudden Irish shooters are all important in Brussels because we have suddenly woken up to the fact that the hour is coming of an almighty **** storm is about to descend on the Irish farmer, in his guise as the biggest body of gun owners in Ireland?

Forgive me if I,and many others are a tad skepitcal at their sudden concern for the Irish gunowner.:rolleyes:

Yes I get what your saying, but something tells me we wouldn't be so sceptical if it came to ANY other party, knowing well they all have similar agendas. Are we really in a position to be so choosy, as to whom represents us? Yea we'd probably all like to pick ANYONE else, but something tells me we'll be waiting a long time to get that line up.