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The glorious 12th

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    #3152
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    citytillidie wrote: »
    How come Scotland and Wales both in the UK will play Flower of Scotland and Land of my Father's instead of God Save the Queen.

    I'd suggest it's because they are countries and N.I. is merely a portion of one Irish province in Ireland but under British rule currently.


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    #3153
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I'd suggest it's because they are countries and N.I. is merely a portion of one Irish province in Ireland but under British rule currently.


    The GFA got rid of the territorial claim, so you are wrong.


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    #3154
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The GFA got rid of the territorial claim, so you are wrong.

    You commenting on quotes nobody made again? Do you never get tired of arguing with phantoms?
    Ulster is an Irish province in Ireland. Did you do geography in school? I never said your pal Leo* was in charge of the occupied portion.

    *a politician who's party you defend on a regular basis, but do not vote for or support.


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    #3155
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    As per usual francie you like to pontificate to others about how they should let the past go yet you are trapped in 'rewind and replay 'mode about what the British did hundreds of years ago-let it go.

    What the British did 'hundreds of years' ago is a matter of record Rob and rarely mentioned by me.

    Is that the best you could come up with to try and deflect away from the absence of any way forward to normality from Downcow?

    There are people working for peace and normality and there are those who want to hold on to their suprematist and triumphalist 'culture' and sickeningly pass it to their children. And those people are, in the main, Unionists.


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    #3156
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,223 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    You commenting on quotes nobody made again? Do you never get tired of arguing with phantoms?
    Ulster is an Irish province in Ireland. Did you do geography in school? I never said your pal Leo* was in charge of the occupied portion.

    *a politician who's party you defend on a regular basis, but do not vote for or support.


    The geography argument has been done to death.

    Ulster is an Irish province on the island of Ireland, part of the archipelago of the British Isles. You can spin that whatever way you choose, and you do.

    How many times do I have to tell you that I am not a FG supporter or voter? I won't vote for FG because their environmental policies are not up to scratch. Economically they are better than the alternatives, but that isn't the most important thing, climate change is. You are told this repeatedly, and yet you still come back with the snide underhand sneaky comments about my alleged support for FG.

    You can tell all that to Leo when he gets home tonight.


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    #3157
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The geography argument has been done to death.

    Ulster is an Irish province on the island of Ireland, part of the archipelago of the British Isles. You can spin that whatever way you choose, and you do.

    How many times do I have to tell you that I am not a FG supporter or voter? I won't vote for FG because their environmental policies are not up to scratch. Economically they are better than the alternatives, but that isn't the most important thing, climate change is. You are told this repeatedly, and yet you still come back with the snide underhand sneaky comments about my alleged support for FG.

    You can tell all that to Leo when he gets home tonight.

    And that's what I said. You tried to twist it not I.

    I accept you're not a Fine Gael supporter. You do defend them at every turn. Just pointing that out. Maybe you didn't realise. Not sneaky, if you can show I'm wrong I'll retract but anytime I criticise FG in you steam roll every single time. No points to be scored on what's common knowledge Blanch.


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    #3158
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    And that's what I said. You tried to twist it not I.

    I accept you're not a Fine Gael supporter. You do defend them at every turn. Just pointing that out. Maybe you didn't realise. Not sneaky, if you can show I'm wrong I'll retract but anytime I criticise FG in you steam roll every single time. No points to be scored on what's common knowledge Blanch.

    You'd have thought a fervent 'climate change' advocate would have even opening his own thread condemning the burning the of 'de pallets' every year. Disappointing is not the word. :D


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    #3159
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    Soldiers song is not the anthem of the rugby team. Ireland’s call (as horrific a dirge that it is) is. Pointless working on something that has already been changed.

    Now we are into semantics.

    I have worked to stop the uk anthem being played at Windsor Park. Have you worked to have the ROI anthem stopped being played at the Aviva? simple question


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    #3160
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    citytillidie wrote: »
    How come Scotland and Wales both in the UK will play Flower of Scotland and Land of my Father's instead of God Save the Queen.

    I envy them on that, but i guess it is easier for them because they are not living in a contested society.

    NI football and Irish rugby seem unable to bring themselves to stop playing tunes before a game that makes some of their players and fans uncomfortable - very sad


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    #3161
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    downcow wrote: »
    Now we are into semantics.

    I have worked to stop the uk anthem being played at Windsor Park. Have you worked to have the ROI anthem stopped being played at the Aviva? simple question

    It's not semantics when you are just wrong.

    It's like that hypocrisy thing, I don't think you actually know what it means.

    And you've worked to stop GSTQ being played at Windsor? Excuse me for saying this, I call absolute bull**** on this. You're talking 100% Tony.


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    #3162
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    It's not semantics when you are just wrong.

    It's like that hypocrisy thing, I don't think you actually know what it means.

    And you've worked to stop GSTQ being played at Windsor? Excuse me for saying this, I call absolute bull**** on this. You're talking 100% Tony.

    I am not Tony. I have made endless phonecalls to the IFA and even reported them to UEFA for the 'no surrender' chant (done by a very few and decreasing number) within GSTQ . My rational was that they would get threatened with fines and the only way to stop it was to stop GSTQ.
    Now Sofiz thats what you call trying to create change in your own community as opposed to pointing at the other.

    Now remind me what you have done to stop the playing of the SS in Aviva when both countries are playing in a united team??


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    #3163
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I am not Tony. I have made endless phonecalls to the IFA and even reported them to UEFA for the 'no surrender' chant (done by a very few and decreasing number) within GSTQ . My rational was that they would get threatened with fines and the only way to stop it was to stop GSTQ.
    Now Sofiz thats what you call trying to create change in your own community as opposed to pointing at the other.

    Now remind me what you have done to stop the playing of the SS in Aviva when both countries are playing in a united team??

    Please stay within the bounds of credibility. Why would somebody who cannot see that stopping kids(if it is just kids) engaging in bigotry and provocation is a good thing suddenly get concerned about an anthem. Funny lad!


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    #3164
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Please stay within the bounds of credibility. Why would somebody who cannot see that stopping kids(if it is just kids) engaging in bigotry and provocation is a good thing suddenly get concerned about an anthem. Funny lad!

    I am not surprised you don't understand.
    The NI team and the GAWA are probably the cultural/identity thing that means most of all to me.

    What might surprise you is that I love the way they have been at the forefront of developing a true NI identity. The 'sea of Green' initiative that turned windsor from red white and blue to Green. the endless initiatives to develop inclusive songs incl the use of the GAWA chant to drown out anything sectarian in the early days.
    This all happened in spite of the grey suits in the IFA rather than because of them. It was the fans showed all the courage.
    It was lovely on a recent away trip to be in the irish pub with not even room to stand with NI fans and to find two dubliners in the middle of it wrapped in a tricolour with arms round their necks by NI fans and all the free drink they could drink.

    And if you pop onto the ourweecountry.co.uk website you will find that the fans poll on the anthem found that 83% want a NI specific anthen instead of GSTQ (not as well as like Ireland rugby) with only 16% wanting to keep GSTQ. Its the grey suits that are standing in the way of iy.

    But no you wouldnt understand untill you've shock yourself out of the place i was in in the 80s


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    #3165
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I am not surprised you don't understand.
    The NI team and the GAWA are probably the cultural/identity thing that means most of all to me.

    What might surprise you is that I love the way they have been at the forefront of developing a true NI identity. The 'sea of Green' initiative that turned windsor from red white and blue to Green. the endless initiatives to develop inclusive songs incl the use of the GAWA chant to drown out anything sectarian in the early days.
    This all happened in spite of the grey suits in the IFA rather than because of them. It was the fans showed all the courage.
    It was lovely on a recent away trip to be in the irish pub with not even room to stand with NI fans and to find two dubliners in the middle of it wrapped in a tricolour with arms round their necks by NI fans and all the free drink they could drink.

    And if you pop onto the ourweecountry.co.uk website you will find that the fans poll on the anthem found that 83% want a NI specific anthen instead of GSTQ (not as well as like Ireland rugby) with only 16% wanting to keep GSTQ. Its the grey suits that are standing in the way of iy.

    But no you wouldnt understand untill you've shock yourself out of the place i was in in the 80s

    I can understand you guys wanting to be more Irish and not seen as another British team. The Billy Bingham inspired bigotry is a thing of the past hopefully.

    What I don't understand is that as somebody who has seen it inNI football can still have the 'Never Never Never's' when it comes to cutting out the provocation, taunting and bigotry at the 11th night and the 12th.

    A bit of a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on.


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    #3166
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    downcow wrote: »
    Now we are into semantics.

    I have worked to stop the uk anthem being played at Windsor Park. Have you worked to have the ROI anthem stopped being played at the Aviva? simple question

    What are you talking about it? Amhran na Bhfiann is played for rugby as match is in Dublin. It’s not played outside of Dublin. it won’t be played at rugby World Cup even though it’s 10000 times better than Ireland’s call. Aviva also hosts our soccer team so no I will want our anthem played there.


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    #3167
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    What are you talking about it? Amhran na Bhfiann is played for rugby as match is in Dublin. It’s not played outside of Dublin. it won’t be played at rugby World Cup even though it’s 10000 times better than Ireland’s call. Aviva also hosts our soccer team so no I will want our anthem played there.
    So you are happy that a number of your team feel very uncomfortable when it is played.
    You see I support my team and I want them all the feel good about the anthem played.
    It’s a pity you won’t compromise


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    #3168
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I can understand you guys wanting to be more Irish and not seen as another British team. The Billy Bingham inspired bigotry is a thing of the pastn.

    Billy Bingham was loved by his catholic and Protestant team and indeed his captain who went to manage your team. A real gentleman


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    #3169
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    So you are happy that a number of your team feel very uncomfortable when it is played.
    You see I support my team and I want them all the feel good about the anthem played.
    It’s a pity you won’t compromise

    Which of the team has an issue with it? Link please.

    Has any one on the crowd an issue with it?


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    #3170
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    downcow wrote: »
    So you are happy that a number of your team feel very uncomfortable when it is played.
    You see I support my team and I want them all the feel good about the anthem played.
    It’s a pity you won’t compromise

    Has our anthem ever stopped anyone playing rugby for Ireland? No

    Has gstq up in Belfast stopped people playing for the north? Yes I think it has.


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    #3171
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Billy Bingham was loved by his catholic and Protestant team and indeed his captain who went to manage your team. A real gentleman

    I was at the game when his mask slipped downcow, I was one of those afraid to cheer our own goalscorer, it was nauseating to watch.
    A stain on his career.
    It was the night for many that the mask slipped — if not Bingham’s, then that of the mob he’d egged on. Within a decade, Neil Lennon was receiving death threats.


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    #3172
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Which of the team has an issue with it? Link please.

    Has any one on the crowd an issue with it?

    Take a wee look at your captain for one. Are you really so blind to see it. I find that hard to believe.
    I have prod friends who go to games they tell the technique is to make sure you happen to be standing before it starts and then you don’t need to get up for it.


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    #3173
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I was at the game when his mask slipped downcow, I was one of those afraid to cheer our own goalscorer, it was nauseating to watch.
    A stain on his career.

    Context my dear chap context.
    I was at the game I guess you are referring to. Could you tell me what the problem was and was it only one side guilty??


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    #3174
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    Has our anthem ever stopped anyone playing rugby for Ireland? No

    Has gstq up in Belfast stopped people playing for the north? Yes I think it has.

    So who are you saying are the intolerant ones. I think you shot yourself in the foot there.


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    #3175
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    downcow wrote: »
    Context my dear chap context.
    I was at the game I guess you are referring to. Could you tell me what the problem was and was it only one side guilty??

    Context? So you can promote sectarian chanting as manager? That night was disgusting but the republic had the last laugh.


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    #3176
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Take a wee look at your captain for one. Are you really so blind to see it. I find that hard to believe.
    I have prod friends who go to games they tell the technique is to make sure you happen to be standing before it starts and then you don’t need to get up for it.

    I'm sure your friends are like that downcow, in fact I'd be surprised if they weren't.

    Any rugby match I go to all the crowd treat the anthem with respect. You should maybe go to one.
    My wife is a 'prod' and so are my children, I do wish you would stop speaking for them.
    Perhaps the term you are looking for is the one she uses ...'Orange Prod', which she very much isn't.


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    #3177
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    downcow wrote: »
    So who are you saying are the intolerant ones. I think you shot yourself in the foot there.

    Read what Trevor Ringland had to say. Rugby thankfully hasn’t been stained by the entrenched northern sectarianism.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/rugby/it-wasnt-the-same-tricolour-as-the-one-wrapped-around-the-ira-which-was-trying-to-kill-people-like-my-father-38390308.html


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    #3178
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    Context? So you can promote sectarian chanting as manager? That night was disgusting but the republic had the last laugh.

    More urban myth.

    roi and Jc in particular were shocked we didn’t just lie down and hand it to you’s. that was the problem. The atmosphere was electric and bb encouraged the fans to up the volume.
    And yes I’m sure there was sectarian stuff. But the context was we had played in Dublin and been sustained ira chants etc.
    Roi had lobbied fifa to get the game moved to England which was a disgusting trick and if they had succeeded may have meant we wouldn’t have had home games again for years - a dirty action
    There were roi fans in our stand and no one interfered with them.
    There was one roi fan in the away fans section I remember got up and held a picture of Celtic up to the home fans. He was marched out by the police and He was disciplined by his employer boi following it

    It was also it a time of intense violence in ni
    But sure why let thrush stand in the way of a true story.

    If you were there you should be able to tell us what was so terrible in your view.

    Old Jc was very upset at the chants of ‘England b team’

    And be careful with untruths as I might have evidence lol


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    #3179
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I'm sure your friends are like that downcow, in fact I'd be surprised if they weren't.

    Any rugby match I go to all the crowd treat the anthem with respect. You should maybe go to one.
    My wife is a 'prod' and so are my children, I do wish you would stop speaking for them.
    Perhaps the term you are looking for is the one she uses ...'Orange Prod', which she very much isn't.

    I am guessing it’s her anthem so why would she have a problem with.


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    #3180
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I am guessing it’s her anthem so why would she have a problem with.

    She is a Prod downcow and nothing...nothing like you. So quit claiming that your sensibility is a Prod one. It is an 'Orange' one.


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    #3181
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,020 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    More urban myth.

    roi and Jc in particular were shocked we didn’t just lie down and hand it to you’s. that was the problem. The atmosphere was electric and bb encouraged the fans to up the volume.
    And yes I’m sure there was sectarian stuff. But the context was we had played in Dublin and been sustained ira chants etc.
    Roi had lobbied fifa to get the game moved to England which was a disgusting trick and if they had succeeded may have meant we wouldn’t have had home games again for years - a dirty action
    There were roi fans in our stand and no one interfered with them.
    There was one roi fan in the away fans section I remember got up and held a picture of Celtic up to the home fans. He was marched out by the police and He was disciplined by his employer boi following it

    It was also it a time of intense violence in ni
    But sure why let thrush stand in the way of a true story.

    If you were there you should be able to tell us what was so terrible in your view.

    Old Jc was very upset at the chants of ‘England b team’

    And be careful with untruths as I might have evidence lol

    The victimhood again.
    I was there, I watched Bingham wind up every sectarian chant. You are as usual talking bollicks.
    Every journalist I have ever read that was there, says the same thing. The night his mask slipped.
    He should have the stature of Charlton but nobody likes to talk about him much, after that night.


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