The glorious 12th

NIMAN

This time of the year makes me very sad for NI's future.

People trying to outdo each other in terms of displays of hatred.
"No, I hate you more than you hate me".

The Nal

Look at these fúcking idiots

downcow

gwalk wrote: »

"We experienced a friendly and family-focused aspect of the festival, but also came face to face with its dark side, as we stood among thick crowds around a towering Belfast bonfire as those around us chanted “We hate Catholics”"

but its "Culture" though

Gwalk. I think you know rightly, but I’ll tell you anyhow.
First of all, fair play to the pair for having the gumption to come up and experience it first hand. I haven’t listened to it all yet but so far I think it is excellent honest attempt. And of course some of it makes uncomfortable listening for me but I appreciate that.
What is clear is that they are looking at it through southern nationalist eyes - and the say that themselves. They even talk of their relief as the pass through the peace wall to the nationalist side.
I was involved in many cc groups doing tours of conflict areas of Belfast and it was always a very interesting reflection point how each felt exactly the same relief as they crossed back into the sides area (but fair play again, these two got that - you could learn a lot from them gwalk)
The moment they said they were headed for sandy row bonfire I knew what they would encounter. Midnight, lots of people very drunk, sectarian atmosphere hyped up by what was happening at avoneil that day. I’ve actually been there with a catholic friend 30 years ago and was uncomfortable for his safety.
It is worth note that this was at the extreme edge of loyalist culture and yet the chants were no worse than the chants at a mainstream, early evening, cultural concert in the nationalist community this week. I hate both whether people are chanting celebrating killing catholics or Protestants
I would love those two jurnos to come back again and go to a mainstream bonfire.

Anyway nothing shocking in it for me. I have never hidden that there is a tiny edge to most events that are nasty and unionist culture is no different

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

Is this attached link any better?
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/crime/dressing-of-derry-bonfire-with-offensive-material-a-hate-crime-says-psni-1-9036963

What dowmcow/janfebmar would say here is that 'it was just kids indulging in their culture'.

What happened here is that nationalist politicians made huge efforts to try and mediate. Have publicly condemned this and have even offered a dignified alternative event.

I.E. The missing quotient - Unionists visibly working to stop this in their communities.

I think it's all wrong which ever community is is,it just feeds an endless circle of anger,distress and accusations

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What dowmcow/janfebmar would say here is that 'it was just kids indulging in their culture'.

What happened here is that nationalist politicians made huge efforts to try and mediate. Have publicly condemned this and have even offered a dignified alternative event.

I.E. The missing quotient - Unionists visibly working to stop this in their communities.

Wise up.
Sf councillor standing in area of fire on news last night saying that the bonfire builders had done everything asked of them yet the flag of my football team and the hm queen remained on the fire. Take your blinkers of.

And as for the harmless other event - what was it celebrating?? yards from one of the most isolated and attacked communities in ni, actually sending fireworks over their heads sponsored by the city.
You are haveing a laugh

downcow

The Nal wrote: »

Look at these fúcking idiots

I wonder how this guy feels about his mates burning the shirt he used to be so proud of. Lol
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11728/7003547/mcclean-plays-down-pool-link

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Wise up.
Sf councillor standing in area of fire on news last night saying that the bonfire builders had done everything asked of them yet the flag of my football team and the hm queen remained on the fire. Take your blinkers of.

And as for the harmless other event - what was it celebrating?? yards from one of the most isolated and attacked communities in ni, actually sending fireworks over their heads sponsored by the city.
You are haveing a laugh

If you cannot see it, then I genuinely pity you.

The world once again is moving on without you.

Again and again, nationalist political condemnation has been posted, and examples of them working with these people trying to make them understand that this behaviour is wrong. Unionists, question the police and defend this activity.

Did it ever occur to you that might be why this is a much smaller problem in nationalist areas...and why the focus might be on you guys worldwide?

Stop playing the victim and come out of that bubble downcow.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you cannot see it, then I genuinely pity you.

The world once again is moving on without you.

Again and again, nationalist political condemnation has been posted, and examples of them working with these people trying to make them understand that this behaviour is wrong. Unionists, question the police and defend this activity.

Did it ever occur to you that might be why this is a much smaller problem in nationalist areas...and why the focus might be on you guys worldwide?

Stop playing the victim and come out of that bubble downcow.

Francie. Do a wee bit of research to get rid of blinkers.
During this summer:
Add up number of petrol bombs thrown in each community
Who had the bonfires with the most offensive stuff on them.
Who had most flags per bonfire
Who named victims families on most of their bonfires
Which community had mass chanting of pro terrorist stuff at mainstream day time events
We have 3 MEPs. Which one felt the need to glorify terrorists at the scene of the murder of a baby

And yes
which community had a band of young lads turn up wearing their uniform with a 3inch support for soldier f on slieve

You fill in the blanks. I am finding it pointless debating with such a closed person.

gwalk

downcow wrote: »

Gwalk. I think you know rightly, but I’ll tell you anyhow.
First of all, fair play to the pair for having the gumption to come up and experience it first hand. I haven’t listened to it all yet but so far I think it is excellent honest attempt. And of course some of it makes uncomfortable listening for me but I appreciate that.
What is clear is that they are looking at it through southern nationalist eyes - and the say that themselves. They even talk of their relief as the pass through the peace wall to the nationalist side.
I was involved in many cc groups doing tours of conflict areas of Belfast and it was always a very interesting reflection point how each felt exactly the same relief as they crossed back into the sides area (but fair play again, these two got that - you could learn a lot from them gwalk)
The moment they said they were headed for sandy row bonfire I knew what they would encounter. Midnight, lots of people very drunk, sectarian atmosphere hyped up by what was happening at avoneil that day. I’ve actually been there with a catholic friend 30 years ago and was uncomfortable for his safety.
It is worth note that this was at the extreme edge of loyalist culture and yet the chants were no worse than the chants at a mainstream, early evening, cultural concert in the nationalist community this week. I hate both whether people are chanting celebrating killing catholics or Protestants
I would love those two jurnos to come back again and go to a mainstream bonfire.

Anyway nothing shocking in it for me. I have never hidden that there is a tiny edge to most events that are nasty and unionist culture is no different

it was from 2018 not 2019 so the Avoniel is a moot point.

Just finished listening to the two episodes, very interesting listening and thanks to the poster who shared it originally.

not going to make any unnecessary smart comments or point scoring as the pod is there for all to listen to to make up their own mind

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

I wonder how this guy feels about his mates burning the shirt he used to be so proud of. Lol
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11728/7003547/mcclean-plays-down-pool-link

How do you know what he felt wearing it? Obviously not too much given he deserted it. The Northern Ireland football team is an example of the problem up there. Rather than have an agreed respectable to both communities anthem they choose the most divisive.

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

I wonder how this guy feels about his mates burning the shirt he used to be so proud of. Lol
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11728/7003547/mcclean-plays-down-pool-link

Where in that article does it say he was proud to be wearing the Northern Ireland kit? I say he is ashamed they way those fans reacted to him declaring for Ireland after. He went to school in Derry, the football system means he had to play for Northern Ireland school boys and that lead to a few call ups for the U21. When he was able to jump ship he did

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Do a wee bit of research to get rid of blinkers.
During this summer:
Add up number of petrol bombs thrown in each community
Who had the bonfires with the most offensive stuff on them.
Who had most flags per bonfire
Who named victims families on most of their bonfires
Which community had mass chanting of pro terrorist stuff at mainstream day time events
We have 3 MEPs. Which one felt the need to glorify terrorists at the scene of the murder of a baby

And yes
which community had a band of young lads turn up wearing their uniform with a 3inch support for soldier f on slieve

.

Here is your problem. You are desperately trying to make this the only issue with your community.

p.s. just because you decide that people were disrespecting the memory of a tragic victim, just because you again exploit a victim to try the 'look at themun's' excuse making, doesn't make it their 'intention'.

Even if it was their intention, it doesn't make your excusing any better. It is still morally bankrupt and eons behind everybody else, socially and politically.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

How do you know what he felt wearing it? Obviously not too much given he deserted it. The Northern Ireland football team is an example of the problem up there. Rather than have an agreed respectable to both communities anthem they choose the most divisive.

It was tongue in cheek. I guess he hated putting it on and I am so glad he went to roi. He was a car crash waiting to happen.

As for ni team. You might need to hold a mirror up. Just let me change your comment a little. “The Ireland Rugby team is an example of the problem down there. Rather than have an agreed respectable to both communities anthem they choose the most divisive”

...and I have worked very hard to get the uk anthem replaced at football by a ni specific one. May I ask have you made the same effort to get soldiers song replaced?

citytillidie

Hmm Ireland's call

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is your problem. You are desperately trying to make this the only issue with your community.

p.s. just because you decide that people were disrespecting the memory of a tragic victim, just because you again exploit a victim to try the 'look at themun's' excuse making, doesn't make it their 'intention'.

Even if it was their intention, it doesn't make your excusing any better. It is still morally bankrupt and eons behind everybody else, socially and politically.

Francie. I have said that it was insensitive I agree with the ABOD statement, which was not an apology but simply an acknowledgement that some people may have been hurt by it. I do though defend the bands right to were the shirt and, believe it or not, Martinas right to wear the hunger strike shirt.
I do condemn the burning of flags but am a realist and do understand why some on the edge of each community would do it as we are a contested place.

Is that clear enough for you!
No how do you feel about the nationalist behaviour I have outlined above. And please be clear and open like me. No riddles and no whataboutery

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

It was tongue in cheek. I guess he hated putting it on and I am so glad he went to roi. He was a car crash waiting to happen.

As for ni team. You might need to hold a mirror up. Just let me change your comment a little. “The Ireland Rugby team is an example of the problem down there. Rather than have an agreed respectable to both communities anthem they choose the most divisive”

...and I have worked very hard to get the uk anthem replaced at football by a ni specific one. May I ask have you made the same effort to get soldiers song replaced?

Soldiers song is not the anthem of the rugby team. Ireland’s call (as horrific a dirge that it is) is. Pointless working on something that has already been changed.

firemansam4

The Nal wrote: »

Look at these fúcking idiots

Its pathetic really. Just exactly copying the kind of carry on of the people that they hate the most.

What is this obsession of fires and burning of flags up in the North?

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

It was tongue in cheek. I guess he hated putting it on and I am so glad he went to roi. He was a car crash waiting to happen.

As for ni team. You might need to hold a mirror up. Just let me change your comment a little. “The Ireland Rugby team is an example of the problem down there. Rather than have an agreed respectable to both communities anthem they choose the most divisive”

...and I have worked very hard to get the uk anthem replaced at football by a ni specific one. May I ask have you made the same effort to get soldiers song replaced?

So you are delighted a person who grew up all his life in the north chose to desert it? Classic unionism!

Fionn1952

None so blind as those who will not see...

NIMAN

firemansam4 wrote: »

Its pathetic really. Just exactly copying the kind of carry on of the people that they hate the most.

What is this obsession of fires and burning of flags up in the North?

Exactly.

To try to show how much you hate them 'uns.

You are talking about a place where even a colour can be considered offensive. Think about that for a second, people can actually get annoyed about a colour.

gwalk

NIMAN wrote: »

Exactly.

To try to show how much you hate them 'uns.

You are talking about a place where even a colour can be considered offensive. Think about that for a second, people can actually get annoyed about a colour.

aye and a whole "culture" and political side that vehemently despise a rainbow

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. I have said that it was insensitive I agree with the ABOD statement, which was not an apology but simply an acknowledgement that some people may have been hurt by it. I do though defend the bands right to were the shirt and, believe it or not, Martinas right to wear the hunger strike shirt.
I do condemn the burning of flags but am a realist and do understand why some on the edge of each community would do it as we are a contested place.

Is that clear enough for you!
No how do you feel about the nationalist behaviour I have outlined above. And please be clear and open like me. No riddles and no whataboutery

The question for Unionism is: are you going to start to try and leave this in the past?

It is not normal, it is certainly not something to teach your children and it is and always will be divisive and toxic.

That has to start with political reps and as easily shown, yours are a long way behind the curve.

*Pointing fingers is not the answer here, this is a job for all, albeit tougher for you because you haven't the self awareness to see the problem.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

Soldiers song is not the anthem of the rugby team. Ireland’s call (as horrific a dirge that it is) is. Pointless working on something that has already been changed.

Maybe if Unionism and partitionists took a good long look at how Irish Rugby managed to work together they might learn how easy it is when you have two sets of responsible sides working for the same thing while managing to keep their identities.

Start with that day in Croke Park and work back.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

downcow wrote: »

Francie. I have said that it was insensitive I agree with the ABOD statement, which was not an apology but simply an acknowledgement that some people may have been hurt by it. I do though defend the bands right to were the shirt and, believe it or not, Martinas right to wear the hunger strike shirt.
I do condemn the burning of flags but am a realist and do understand why some on the edge of each community would do it as we are a contested place.

Is that clear enough for you!
No how do you feel about the nationalist behaviour I have outlined above. And please be clear and open like me. No riddles and no whataboutery

The question for Unionism is: are you going to start to try and leave this in the past?

It is not normal, it is certainly not something to teach your children and it is and always will be divisive and toxic.

That has to start with political reps and as easily shown, yours are a long way behind the curve.

*Pointing fingers is not the answer here, this is a job for all, albeit tougher for you because you haven't the self awareness to see the problem.

As per usual francie you like to pontificate to others about how they should let the past go yet you are trapped in 'rewind and replay 'mode about what the British did hundreds of years ago-let it go.

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

As per usual francie you like to pontificate to others about how they should let the past go yet you are trapped in 'rewind and replay 'mode about what the British did hundreds of years ago-let it go.

Pssst...they're still there.

It would help if it didn't take the brits 30 odd years before apologising for their murders. But we'll all move on once the country is united.

citytillidie

I see British Occupied Ireland as a name for Northern Ireland has trended on twitter over the past few days from Indians upset with the BBC

downcow

citytillidie wrote: »

Hmm Ireland's call

So are you suggesting if we play a new song called Northern Ireland’s call along with the uk anthem you think that would fine????
I don’t

RobMc59

Matt Barrett wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

As per usual francie you like to pontificate to others about how they should let the past go yet you are trapped in 'rewind and replay 'mode about what the British did hundreds of years ago-let it go.

Pssst...they're still there.

It would help if it didn't take the brits 30 odd years before apologising for their murders. But we'll all move on once the country is united.

Matt,considering your brother is English according to francie's formula you're not much of an anglophile

Odhinn

RobMc59 wrote: »

As per usual francie you like to pontificate to others about how they should let the past go yet you are trapped in 'rewind and replay 'mode about what the British did hundreds of years ago-let it go.

There's this myth that floats up now and again, that British misdeeds are from some period centuries ago. They aren't, and in many countries what was done was far more brutal than anything seen here. It was happening until the late 20th century, not back in the 1600's.

citytillidie

downcow wrote: »

So are you suggesting if we play a new song called Northern Ireland’s call along with the uk anthem you think that would fine????
I don’t

How come Scotland and Wales both in the UK will play Flower of Scotland and Land of my Father's instead of God Save the Queen.