The glorious 12th

downcow · 31-07-2019 2:43pm

Odhinn wrote: »

....fairly sure they don't launch fleadhs down sandy row, tigers bay or the shankhill.

....and is your implication that there are OO parades on the Falls Road, Bogside and Crossmaglen?

Odhinn · 31-07-2019 2:47pm

downcow wrote: »

....and is your implication that there are OO parades on the Falls Road, Bogside and Crossmaglen?

...there were parades in nationalist areas. You might remember the famous drumcree...? Ardoyne? the short strand?

downcow · 31-07-2019 3:19pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The problem is OO parades wanting to go through nationalist areas. The croppies aren't lying down anymore, so it's just not on.

Tell me where there is an OO going through a nationalist area (whatever that is)

downcow · 31-07-2019 3:23pm

gwalk wrote: »

I wouldnt trust you as far as i could throw you.

a quick example, i just googled Jamie Bryson Translink and it was the second result down, so you obviously didn't look.

lol must stand for... Loyalist Orange Liars..

I think regular posters on here will confirm i am fairly honest - even those that don't agree with me.

But for any that are believing that this article is easy to find using your method, here you go https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Jamie+Bryson+Translink
I still haven't found it - but this is silly games if you wont post your evidence

Fionn1952 · 31-07-2019 3:24pm

downcow wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

The problem is OO parades wanting to go through nationalist areas. The croppies aren't lying down anymore, so it's just not on.

Tell me where there is an OO going through a nationalist area (whatever that is)

Aren't there still weekly protests to walk down the Garvaghy Road, Down?

Fionn1952 · 31-07-2019 3:25pm

Also, the referenced Jamie Bryson tweet is right there on the first result on the search you presented.

downcow · 31-07-2019 3:26pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You need to tell us why people are offended by a 'fleadh'?

A fleadh is not offensive in essence, while there may be offensive behaviour at it. There can be offensive behaviour anywhere, in a shopping centre, on the side of the road etc.

The OO and the 12th are offensive in essence, because of what they and it, is about. 'Triumphalism'. It celebrates the defeat of the community you wish to pass through. You cannot sugar coat that with the words 'culture' or 'tradition'.

You are perceiving it as triumphalist as many in my community are perceiving Irish language signs, fleadhs, etc as triumphalist

And this "It celebrates the defeat of the community you wish to pass through" is just plain nonsense.

downcow · 31-07-2019 3:31pm

Odhinn wrote: »

...there were parades in nationalist areas. You might remember the famous drumcree...? Ardoyne? the short strand?

more fantasy - and this is the problem. These were the arterial shortest route to the centre of town and in some cases they passed the fringes of areas that were predominately nationalist - but Gerry said it - The IRA volunteers done a great job in creating tension around these parades.
and if i'm not mistaken there has not been a parade on the garvaghy Road this century.

You are going to have to move on or the world will move on without you

Fionn1952 · 31-07-2019 3:36pm

downcow wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

...there were parades in nationalist areas. You might remember the famous drumcree...? Ardoyne? the short strand?

more fantasy - and this is the problem. These were the arterial shortest route to the centre of town and in some cases they passed the fringes of areas that were predominately nationalist - but Gerry said it - The IRA volunteers done a great job in creating tension around these parades.
and if i'm not mistaken there has not been a parade on the garvaghy Road this century.

You are going to have to move on or the world will move on without you

You'll find there is still a weekly attempt by Orange Order members to, 'complete the March' down Garvaghy Downcow. It hasn't stopped because of the magnanimity of the OO.....nor are they (you?) willing to move on, though the world has moved on considerably without them nonetheless.

gwalk · 31-07-2019 3:45pm

downcow wrote: »

I think regular posters on here will confirm i am fairly honest - even those that don't agree with me.

But for any that are believing that this article is easy to find using your method, here you go https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Jamie+Bryson+Translink
I still haven't found it - but this is silly games if you wont post your evidence

funny how others could find it but not you or your little orange chums,

I'm not going to link that biggoted little mouthpeice, its on his twitter, if you want to see it you will find it.

he also seems to be offended by a prode parade, god love him, what a backwards little man

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 4:13pm

downcow wrote: »

You are perceiving it as triumphalist as many in my community are perceiving Irish language signs, fleadhs, etc as triumphalist

And this "It celebrates the defeat of the community you wish to pass through" is just plain nonsense.

The Irish language or a celebration of it's culture is not 'triumphalist'. That reason why you fnd it 'offensive' will be laughed out of any court in the land or planet.

It is therefore not justified.

The Irish language used to write a sectarian statement is 'offensive'. Walking up somebodies street shouting in Irish as means of celebrating the defeat of the non Irish speaking population is 'offensive'.

You can pretend all you want that the 12th is not about Protestant victory in 1690 but the fact is, nobody but your own believe you.

If there is a republican, nationalist, Irish, Polish, German, \Chinese group indulging that behaviour you can object and have them banned.

What you cannot do, and I cannot do, is have them banned because they are Polish, German Chinese etc.

citytillidie · 31-07-2019 4:47pm

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know a single unionist who would not be happy with a completely open transparent method of determine how cultural displays take place and of all communities being treated completely equally with the same criteria.
The problem is some republicans fear that as it may further normalise the existence of the unionist community on this island

And I’d be happy for the same rules applying across this island indeed both islands.

And that could apply to flags, banners, parades, sport, dance, whatever - anything that is perceived by a significant number of people as belonging to s community

Sure was there not a ruling to fly the British flag on designated days in Belfast City hall to be the same as the rest of the UK and we seen how that went down.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 9:00pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Sure was there not a ruling to fly the British flag on designated days in Belfast City hall to be the same as the rest of the UK and we seen how that went down.

As I said the poster is being disingenuous. Wants to portray Unionism as the victims and willing to be democrats when anyone with eyes in their head can see that they are way behind.
Even Arlene today on RTE claiming that the Irish government was being 'aggressive' and 'belligerent' was more 'victim playing'.

janfebmar · 31-07-2019 9:31pm

downcow wrote: »

'Bullies' - in the context of my post and 'my town' I mean the people who have driven almost every Unionist out through sectarian attack and intimidation. The people who have burnt our wee primary school several times and burnt our church down, who have pushed faeces and urine through protestant letter boxes as a weekend occurrence, who hold events in the local GAA club which result in increased late-night attacks on protestant homes, who have shot some of our community dead and left others with life changing injuries, who met me comining of my school bus daily to spit on me and push me around because of my religion, who paint sectarian threats on gable walls in irish, who regularly attack the orange hall and damage cars parked outside it.
Then when they had to stop shooting because of peace agreement they decided to block the road as my local accordion band (a band with age range 7 to 80 and 50% female, which participates at many events in the Catholic cumminity and has been world champions - just before you misrepresent them) led the local OO lodge to their annual sunday service.
They are the 'bullies' that the parades commission got on side with and issued a ban of the sunday service parade

And guess who Francie thinks are the bullies in the town above? Very sad situation. Sorry to say, you would be even worse off in a United Ireland Downcow if certain people and their comrades got their way.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 9:33pm

janfebmar wrote: »

And guess who Francie thinks are the bullies in the town above? Very sad situation. Sorry to say, you would be even worse off in a United Ireland Downcow if certain people and their comrades got their way.

We will get some idea whenever downcow posts the Parades Commission determination.

By the way jan...many 'wee towns' were affected by the conflict on both sides.

janfebmar · 31-07-2019 9:39pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We will get some idea ..

.

We have some idea already of the level of intimation by Republicans and demographic change in such places.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 9:46pm

janfebmar wrote: »

We have some idea already of the level of intimation by Republicans and demographic change in such places.

You are one of the finest proponents of the 'there was only one set of victims' theory.
Will you publish your findings one wonders?

If we are going to live in denial of the fact that areas of NI are segrated and are still experiencing the effects of the conflict/war....just say you are on denial, would save a lot of time.

31-07-2019 9:53pm

downcow wrote: »

No problem Lochlach

'my town' you really are reading too much into this. Do you never refer to where you live as 'my town' eg 'there were sheep running through my town last night'. So i simply mean the town that i live in.

'Bullies' - in the context of my post and 'my town' I mean the people who have driven almost every Unionist out through sectarian attack and intimidation. The people who have burnt our wee primary school several times and burnt our church down, who have pushed faeces and urine through protestant letter boxes as a weekend occurrence, who hold events in the local GAA club which result in increased late-night attacks on protestant homes, who have shot some of our community dead and left others with life changing injuries, who met me comining of my school bus daily to spit on me and push me around because of my religion, who paint sectarian threats on gable walls in irish, who regularly attack the orange hall and damage cars parked outside it.
Then when they had to stop shooting because of peace agreement they decided to block the road as my local accordion band (a band with age range 7 to 80 and 50% female, which participates at many events in the Catholic cumminity and has been world champions - just before you misrepresent them) led the local OO lodge to their annual sunday service.
They are the 'bullies' that the parades commission got on side with and issued a ban of the sunday service parade

I await the parades commission decision with interest.

The sad truth about Northern Ireland is that both communities have a long way to go before there can be anything like the level of tolerance we see on this side of the border.

A lot of that is down to the fact that there is often a complete refusal to see the other viewpoint.

The truth is that people on both sides have genuine grievances.

So, I have what I sincerely hope is a constructive suggestion. Can you go to youtube, and watch the documentary "No stone unturned".

You need to listen, impartially.
Then compare the way those victims feel, and think, to the way Unionist victims feel and think.

Then come back to me with your opinion?

downcow · 31-07-2019 10:02pm

janfebmar wrote: »

And guess who Francie thinks are the bullies in the town above? Very sad situation. Sorry to say, you would be even worse off in a United Ireland Downcow if certain people and their comrades got their way.

I’m actually inclined to think the massive majority in the south are not like francie and would be very open to diversity. But maybe I am naive

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 10:06pm

downcow wrote: »

I’m actually inclined to think the massive majority in the south are not like francie and would be very open to diversity. But maybe I am naive

Diversity is not bigotry downcow.

Don't confuse them.

downcow · 31-07-2019 10:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I await the parades commission decision with interest.

The sad truth about Northern Ireland is that both communities have a long way to go before there can be anything like the level of tolerance we see on this side of the border.

A lot of that is down to the fact that there is often a complete refusal to see the other viewpoint.

The truth is that people on both sides have genuine grievances.

So, I have what I sincerely hope is a constructive suggestion. Can you go to youtube, and watch the documentary "No stone unturned".

You need to listen, impartially.
Then compare the way those victims feel, and think, to the way Unionist victims feel and think.

Then come back to me with your opinion?

Now why would I listen to that propaganda.
Much of it is nonsense.
Sadly it does remind us that the security forces were swamped by daily murderous attacks and investigations were not perfect.

There is no evidence to convict the loughinisland massacre. That’s just the story of the north eg 95% of republican killings in Fermanagh unsolved.

No stone unturned is a fantasy film

downcow · 31-07-2019 10:10pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We will get some idea whenever downcow posts the Parades Commission determination.

By the way jan...many 'wee towns' were affected by the conflict on both sides.

That’s rich. From the guy that said I should just google myself re the Bryson/translink stuff.

Tell which bit of what I said you don’t believe and I will be happy to provide evidence.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 10:14pm

downcow wrote: »

That’s rich. From the guy that said I should just google myself re the Bryson/translink stuff.

Tell which bit of what I said you don’t believe and I will be happy to provide evidence.

I didn't say I didn't believe you, I said you were posting it in a disingenuous way to portray yourselves as the only victims of the conflict/war. What happened in your town happened on both sides all over the north.

I asked for the PC report...there is always one, so if you can't find it just give us the name of the town.

Fionn1952 · 31-07-2019 10:16pm

That would be the first link on a google search which you couldn't find, downcow?

downcow · 31-07-2019 10:20pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Sure was there not a ruling to fly the British flag on designated days in Belfast City hall to be the same as the rest of the UK and we seen how that went down.

Who is telling you this stuff. I’m watching 10 o’clock news and I am sure I can see the flag flying loud and proud , unless this is one of the days they are allowed to fly it in England.

How about you proposing designated days for flying flags in roi.

downcow · 31-07-2019 10:24pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say I didn't believe you, I said you were posting it in a disingenuous way to portray yourselves as the only victims of the conflict/war. What happened in your town happened on both sides all over the north.

I asked for the PC report...there is always one, so if you can't find it just give us the name of the town.

Don’t agree with you. Do you want to give me a wee list of rural towns and villages that catholics moved out en masse. I’ll give you plenty where Protestants moved out.
Yes there were certainly Catholics intimidated but there is no question that the vast majority of the sectarian intimidation was directed at protestants.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 10:25pm

downcow wrote: »

Who is telling you this stuff. I’m watching 10 o’clock news and I am sure I can see the flag flying loud and proud , unless this is one of the days they are allowed to fly it in England.

How about you proposing designated days for flying flags in roi.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/designated-days-for-union-flag-flying

downcow · 31-07-2019 10:27pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/designated-days-for-union-flag-flying

I think you’ll find that is a minimum requirement while in NI you want it as a maximum requirement. Subtle but important difference

_blaaz · 31-07-2019 10:28pm

downcow wrote: »

I think you’ll find that is a minimum requirement while in NI you want it as a maximum requirement. Subtle but important difference

Tbh mate....if your getting this bent out of shape about a flag

How do you get through the day without seething with rage over other pointless things

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2019 10:33pm

downcow wrote: »

Don’t agree with you. Do you want to give me a wee list of rural towns and villages that catholics moved out en masse. I’ll give you plenty where Protestants moved out.
Yes there were certainly Catholics intimidated but there is no question that the vast majority of the sectarian intimidation was directed at protestants.

Don't be doing a Janfebmar and be putting an argument in my mouth I didn't make. I said: What happened in your town happened on both sides all over the north.
I didn't say it was a competition and the winner gets to be crowned 'the only victim'.

You must have data to back your claim 'that the vast majority of the sectarian intimidation was directed at protestants.' Can you link to it?

And that Parades Commission determination would be good too, when you are ready.

The glorious 12th

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