The glorious 12th

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So provide some of the evidence now in the cold light of day outside of the fictional emotional film.
....or maybe there was none. Sounds like no stone unturned has been busted

Watch the programme? It is not like seeing the Irish language and what that will do to your identity.

You can make up your own mind and not come across as a fingers in the ears unionist.
Plenty of allegations made about republicans out there too. Bet ye believe them when there clearly isn't 'evidence that can convict'.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Watch the programme? It is not like seeing the Irish language and what that will do to your identity.

You can make up your own mind and not come across as a fingers in the ears unionist.
Plenty of allegations made about republicans out there too. Bet ye believe them when there clearly isn't 'evidence that can convict'.

I was given a dvd of it before it was aired and had no interest in watching it. I enjoy factual documentaries not propaganda nonsense.
You seem to have confirmed that there is nothing of substance in it. You couldn’t share one single piece of evidence to convict or to demonstrate ruc cover up.
No stone unturned busted

FrancieBrady

Just in case you don't have the links.

Full film seems to be here:

https://vimeo.com/253637267

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Watch the programme? It is not like seeing the Irish language and what that will do to your identity.

You can make up your own mind and not come across as a fingers in the ears unionist.
Plenty of allegations made about republicans out there too. Bet ye believe them when there clearly isn't 'evidence that can convict'.

It’s not that I question the guilt of those involved. It’s the spin that the fact there was no real evidence = ruc coverup.
Hundreds of killers on both sides got off because there was such a high burden of proof.
When it’s murder of nationalists it’s ruc coverup. When it’s murder of unionist it just unfortunate

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I was given a dvd of it before it was aired and had no interest in watching it. I enjoy factual documentaries not propaganda nonsense.
You seem to have confirmed that there is nothing of substance in it. You couldn’t share one single piece of evidence to convict or to demonstrate ruc cover up.
No stone unturned busted

You set that test for the programme yourself downcow. STOP playing games.

You are just another belligerent unionist with his fingers in his ears, pretending to want to to be fair and democratic and you are here to play the victim and point the finger at one side. Busted...as you would say.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just in case you don't have the links.

Full film seems to be here:

https://vimeo.com/253637267

I won’t be bothering but I hope other posters do watch it and then maybe they will share some of this evidence of ruc coverup

_blaaz

downcow wrote: »

I won’t be bothering but I hope other posters do watch it and then maybe they will share some of this evidence of ruc coverup

The ruc destroyed the getaway vehicle because one of perpetators was an informant (he was recemtly photographed putting up dup posters.btw)



Kind of suprising you have no interest in local goings on (or is it just catholic murders dont count?)....i assumed yous were from down??

You most likely know who carried out,everyone else up there knows anyway

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

When it’s murder of nationalists it’s ruc coverup. When it’s murder of unionist it just unfortunate

Who has ever said that?

The core problem and blame for what happened in the north lies at the door of the state = Britain. And they were players in the conflict just as much as the UVF, The IRA, The UDA etc were.

That needs to be recognised and addressed. But of course, as is typical you, janfebmar and the rest here don't want to see it.

FrancieBrady

_blaaz wrote: »

The ruc destroyed the getaway vehicle because one of perpetators was an informant (he was recemtly photographed putting up dup posters.btw)



Kind of suprising you have no interest in local goings on (or is it just catholic murders dont count?)....i assumed yous were from down??

It's a litany of all the things you would do if you were 'covering up' a crime. It is up to the viewer to make their mind up on whether it was.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

you are here to play the victim and point the finger at one side. Busted...as you would say.

I think it fair to say you Frankie have a better record of " playing the victim and pointing the finger at the other side."...20,000 posts?

_blaaz

janfebmar wrote: »

I think it fair to say you Frankie have a better record of " playing the victim and pointing the finger at the other side."...20,000 posts?

Tbf if yous add up all your posts across multiple accounts it prob well exceeds 20K (be well north of 30K,if ya didnt keep getting banned )

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

I think it fair to say you Frankie have a better record of " playing the victim and pointing the finger at the other side."...20,000 posts?

I post on many thread jan. And I have always accepted there were wrongs on both sides.

I think this must be my 20,000th time saying it was ALL WRONG from the get go. - partition.

FrancieBrady

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf if yous add up all your posts across multiple accounts it prob well exceeds 20K (be well north of 30K,if ya didnt keep getting banned )

Indeed, the queen of the selective victims has been very quiet on these ones. Must do a search to see if she has mentioned it before.

downcow

_blaaz wrote: »

The ruc destroyed the getaway vehicle because one of perpetators was an informant (he was recemtly photographed putting up dup posters.btw)
ay

Blaaz. I think francie will be annoyed you cracked and named the main accusation by republicans in the case ie that the ruc didn’t keep the car
Francie knows that there were over 10,000 attempted murders and almost all with recovered getaway cars. Just where exactly do you think these would be stored for 40 years?
But you see the programme makers pass over the fact that almost 200 ira murders took place in Fermanagh and most remain unsolved (many ruc men) and there is not one single getaway car still in storage.
You see francie dicked and dived and refused to answer because he knows the accusations in the programme are spin and nonsense.
....or maybe you think it’s only uvf getaway cars that should have been kept for all time.
Did the programme tell that the suspects were arrested several times over many years, interrogated and papers sent to pps. Doesn’t sound like ruc weren’t trying.
But sure why let the facts get in the way of a good story

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Blaaz. I think francie will be annoyed you cracked and named the main accusation by republicans in the case ie that the ruc didn’t keep the car
Francie knows that there were over 10,000 attempted murders and almost all with recovered getaway cars. Just where exactly do you think these would be stored for 40 years?
But you see the programme makers pass over the fact that almost 200 ira murders took place in Fermanagh and most remain unsolved (many ruc men) and there is not one single getaway car still in storage.
You see francie dicked and dived and refused to answer because he knows the accusations in the programme are spin and nonsense.
....or maybe you think it’s only uvf getaway cars that should have been kept for all time.
Did the programme tell that the suspects were arrested several times over many years, interrogated and papers sent to pps. Doesn’t sound like ruc weren’t trying.
But sure why let the facts get in the way of a good story

You suspect the RUC were colluding with the IRA in covering up murders in Fermanagh?

Say more downcow?

_blaaz

downcow wrote: »

Blaaz. I think francie will be annoyed you cracked and named the main accusation by republicans in the case ie that the ruc didn’t keep the car
Francie knows that there were over 10,000 attempted murders and almost all with recovered getaway cars. Just where exactly do you think these would be stored for 40 years?

This was destoyed within weeks before any forensic anylsis (which was just getting accurate then) could be performed....but then again you knew that

But you see the programme makers pass over the fact that almost 200 ira murders took place in Fermanagh and most remain unsolved (many ruc men) and there is not one single getaway car still in storage.
You see francie dicked and dived and refused to answer because he knows the accusations in the programme are spin and nonsense.
....or maybe you think it’s only uvf getaway cars that should have been kept for all time.

Nah mate....they should just be kept until.forensic anyslis take place....but then.again how would ruc explain an informer killing half dozen people being ok'd

Did the programme tell that the suspects were arrested several times over many years, interrogated and papers sent to pps. Doesn’t sound like ruc weren’t trying.
But sure why let the facts get in the way of a good story

Pretty hard to expect them to press charges when ruc destroyed evidence (didnt mention one of ruc officers is brother in law to a suspect either?)......funny business this selective reporting of facts

FrancieBrady

_blaaz wrote: »

This was destoyed within weeks before any forensic anylsis (which was just getting accurate then) could be performed....but then again you knew that




Nah mate....they should just be kept until.forensic anyslis take place....but then.again how would ruc explain an informer killing half dozen people being ok'd



Pretty hard to expect them to press charges when ruc destroyed evidence (didnt mention one of ruc officers is brother in law to a suspect either?)......funny business this selective reporting of facts

It's jsut the same kicking and screaming, obfuscation and pointing of fingers that went on with Bloody Sunday. No difference. Keep the fingers in the ears until it just isn't possible anymore.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think this must be my 20,000th time saying it was ALL WRONG from the get go. - partition.

Certainly agree with you on that.
If all Ireland had embraced full integration into the UK prior to that, it would have benefited from all the ups of the industrial revolution, empire, power, wealth, global influence, education and development, rather than being the recalcitrant member of the union, and there would have been no partion, no troubles, and no very problematic and expensive Brexit issue facing all on the island as a consequence of that petulant delusional secession.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Certainly agree with you on that.
If all Ireland had embraced full integration into the UK prior to that, it would have benefited from all the ups of the industrial revolution, empire, power, wealth, global influence, education and development, rather than being the recalcitrant member of the union, and there would have been no partion, no troubles, and no very problematic and expensive Brexit issue facing all on the island as a consequence of that petulant delusional secession.

Sure TROL...sure!

downcow

_blaaz wrote: »

This was destoyed within weeks before any forensic anylsis (which was just getting accurate then) could be performed....

This is exactly why I wouldn’t watch that fiction film.
3 weeks lol
And here is what the ombandsman said
... I have not found evidence of a sinister motive behind the destruction of the vehicle...
But sure maybe she was colluding as well

Compare what you say the film says about no forensic analysis and the car destroyed within 3 weeks to some of the facts laid out here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crime/loughinisland-killers-car-stripped-of-all-forensic-evidence-before-destruction-1-8807619/amp

Maybe time you guys admitted that it was a fictional film. Dangerous but as many nationalists took it hook line and sinker

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

This is exactly why I wouldn’t watch that fiction film.
3 weeks lol
And here is what the ombandsman said
... I have not found evidence of a sinister motive behind the destruction of the vehicle...
But sure maybe she was colluding as well

Compare what you say the film says about no forensic analysis and the car destroyed within 3 weeks to some of the facts laid out here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crime/loughinisland-killers-car-stripped-of-all-forensic-evidence-before-destruction-1-8807619/amp

Maybe time you guys admitted that it was a fictional film. Dangerous but as many nationalists took it hook line and sinker

That the onbudsman/woman has 'not found a sinister motive' does mean what you think it means. It just means he/she hasn't found a sinister motive, it doesn't mean for a second, one didn't exist.

I would still ask what in particular in the film you think is 'fiction'?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You suspect the RUC were colluding with the IRA in covering up murders in Fermanagh?

Given that Republicans were responsible for 90% of the murders in Fermanagh, and most of those targeted and murdered were protestants, I do not think the IRA colluded with the RUC Francie. Have some common sense. The IRA possibly colluded sometimes with individuals in certain places to target people, but that was it.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Given that Republicans were responsible for 90% of the murders in Fermanagh, and most of those targeted and murdered were protestants, I do not think the IRA colluded with the RUC Francie. Have some common sense. The IRA possibly colluded sometimes with individuals in certain places to target people, but that was it.

So downcow was claiming that we should ignore allegations/evidence of collusion because others died in the conflict.

I think that is what he was saying, maybe he would clarify what exactly he wants.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So downcow was claiming that we should ignore allegations/evidence of collusion because others died in the conflict.

I think that is what he was saying, maybe he would clarify what exactly he wants.

No. I was saying that you implication that unsolved murder = ruc dirty work, is nonsense and I was pointing out exactly what jan has said. Strange she could understand it

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the onbudsman/woman has 'not found a sinister motive' does mean what you think it means. It just means he/she hasn't found a sinister motive, it doesn't mean for a second, one didn't exist.

I would still ask what in particular in the film you think is 'fiction'?

You’ve summed up my problem with films like this and other republican propaganda. They don’t need any evidence.

Read again what you said “ It just means he/she hasn't found a sinister motive, it doesn't mean for a second, one didn't exist. ”
It’s like saying, Just because there has been no evidence found of a man living on the moon, it doesn't mean for a second, one doesnt exist.
......and you may stop asking me about what the film contains as I haven’t watched it. I have just heard people talking about some of the nonsense, like they destroyed the car.
I am not opposed to watching it. I just have more interesting things to do with my time - but who knows I might yet

I wish I could get the job of storing the 20,000 cars £100 per car per year would seem reasonable and would give me a nice wee income lol

janfebmar

downcow wrote: »

I wish I could get the job of storing the 20,000 cars £100 per car per year would seem reasonable and would give me a nice wee income lol

£100 a week might be closer to the mark than 100 per year per car, given the cost of car storage at airports and car parks now, and given the fact police property would probably require extra security. Maybe Francie (who claims never to have voted SF - yeah, Francie) could get a job doing that instead of defending SF and their position 24/7?

droidman123

janfebmar wrote: »

£100 a week might be closer to the mark than 100 per year per car, given the cost of car storage at airports and car parks now, and given the fact police property would probably require extra security. Maybe Francie (who claims never to have voted SF - yeah, Francie) could get a job doing that instead of defending SF and their position 24/7?

Do you mean in the same way you defend your glorious blood soaked british empire 24/7?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You’ve summed up my problem with films like this and other republican propaganda. They don’t need any evidence.

Read again what you said “ It just means he/she hasn't found a sinister motive, it doesn't mean for a second, one didn't exist. ”
It’s like saying, Just because there has been no evidence found of a man living on the moon, it doesn't mean for a second, one doesnt exist.
......and you may stop asking me about what the film contains as I haven’t watched it. I have just heard people talking about some of the nonsense, like they destroyed the car.
I am not opposed to watching it. I just have more interesting things to do with my time - but who knows I might yet

I wish I could get the job of storing the 20,000 cars £100 per car per year would seem reasonable and would give me a nice wee income lol

And there is other evidence presented other than the 'car' downcow.

It isn't like it is trying to prove one single incident of collusion...we know there were many and this has all the hallmarks of another.

It 'doesn't' convict it alleges and calls for further action.
The very same thing the Bloody Sunday victims had to do.

blanch152

The intense focus on a relatively small number of security force unlawful killings compared to the relatively bigger number of unlawful IRA actions is bizarre.

We all know that Bloody Sunday was wrong, we know there were some other incidents that were wrong, but the vast majority of security force actions on a day-to-day basis were both lawful and justified. Not something that republicans want to hear because it challenges the 800-year narrative, but true nonetheless.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The intense focus on a relatively small number of security force unlawful killings compared to the relatively bigger number of unlawful IRA actions is bizarre.

We all know that Bloody Sunday was wrong, we know there were some other incidents that were wrong, but the vast majority of security force actions on a day-to-day basis were both lawful and justified. Not something that republicans want to hear because it challenges the 800-year narrative, but true nonetheless.

How do you know they were all 'lawful'? You don't.
And the 'thank you for not shooting me' attitude to security forces of the state doing their jobs properly is noted.

The question is did you always think Bloody Sunday was wrong, or were you one of those who doffed their hats and believed the British were unimpeachable and honest brokers? I wonder.

The British are hiding blanch...hiding behind people like you and your ingrained bias. As long as people like you remain mute and silent they will hide what they were involved in and what they orchestrated. They have done it for the entire conflict.

The 'state' is at the top of the pecking order for scrutiny and rightly so.