3,140 rooms to rent & 8,500 houses to rent -what 'homeless' crisis

Boggles · 10-07-2019 11:54am

ELM327 wrote: »

It should be also none.

So people who work in jobs which pay 24k or less, should not be allowed get married / co-habit or have kids?

Unless i picked you up wrong. Did I?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-07-2019 12:01pm

Boggles wrote: »

So people who work in jobs which pay 24k or less, should not be allowed get married / co-habit or have kids?

Unless i picked you up wrong. Did I?

Not one, not two, but 3 strawmen in the same sentence? The poster didn't say that at all and you know it...

Boggles · 10-07-2019 12:03pm

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

Not one, not two, but 3 strawmen in the same sentence? The poster didn't say that at all and you know it...

I don't. That's why asked him.

But I am sure of one thing, I didn't ask you anything.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-07-2019 12:05pm

Boggles wrote: »

I don't. That's why asked him.

But I am sure of one thing, I didn't ask you anything.

You don't need to ask me anything, I am free to argue your "point" if I so wish.

What makes you think somebody on 24K should be entitled to live in the city center? It's still possible if your only ambition in life is to live in the city center :rolleyes:

What has marriage, kids or co-habiting got to do with the thread?

SusieBlue · 10-07-2019 12:06pm

ELM327 wrote: »

"is not a blueprint for everyone else" =/= free taxpayer funded houses in dublin

Its not about taxpayer funded houses.
I don't expect a free house. I don't want a free house.
I would like to live within a commutable distance to my job, and not have to spend 65% of my take home pay on rent.
I don't even expect to live alone, because that's so far beyond my reach I know its not realistic and it'll be a house share.

I don't think I'm asking for a lot here, and I don't think I have high expectations.

Boggles · 10-07-2019 12:07pm

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

You don't need to ask me anything, I am free to argue your "point" if I so wish.

I asked a very specific question to a very specific member.

But you answered.

Amazing.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-07-2019 12:09pm

Boggles wrote: »

I asked a very specific question to a very specific member.

But you answered.

Amazing.

And? It's a public forum, or haven't you noticed?

Also, deflection, unable to answer questions put to you. I have no doubt in my mind that you have an agenda

Pawwed Rig · 10-07-2019 12:09pm

House prices seem to have stableised and are definitely more affordable than previous boom time. I think I would agree with posters who described it as a social housing crisis rather than a housing crisis.
In the late 19th century a congested district board was established in Ireland to redistribute the population more appropriately. This would fix the 'crisis' in Dublin very quickly but would politically unpalatable.

For example, I work in the north inner city and there are huge areas housing people who have no necessity to live in a city centre. These spaces would be much better utilised sorting out working people with accommodation and redistributing the current residents around the country where populations have fallen.

Never happen though unfortunately

Boggles · 10-07-2019 12:11pm

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

And? It's a public forum, or haven't you noticed?

Public doesn't mean Borg.

I asked him to clarify what he meant.

Short of getting the crayons out I don't think I can explain it to you anymore.

So as you were.

whisky_galore · 10-07-2019 12:16pm

How many of these are affordable on an average wage and how many are in the arse end of nowhere?

ELM327 · 10-07-2019 12:22pm

Boggles wrote: »

I don't. That's why asked him.

But I am sure of one thing, I didn't ask you anything.

The below poster answers you far more capably than I could, and furthermore I agree wholeheartedly with him.

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

Not one, not two, but 3 strawmen in the same sentence? The poster didn't say that at all and you know it...

ELM327 · 10-07-2019 12:24pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Its not about taxpayer funded houses.
I don't expect a free house. I don't want a free house.
I would like to live within a commutable distance to my job, and not have to spend 65% of my take home pay on rent.
I don't even expect to live alone, because that's so far beyond my reach I know its not realistic and it'll be a house share.

I don't think I'm asking for a lot here, and I don't think I have high expectations.

And if the free market cannot sustain these wants?
Do you expect a socialist government to fund your want to live in dublin, from the pockets of others (who may not be able to afford to live there either, like me) or should you move and pay your own way in society?

You dress it up very well and make some reasonable points. I don't expect nor want a free house, I would like to live within a reasonable commute and I am not living alone. I moved to somewhere that met this threshold and did not expect the taxpayer to fund my want to live in Dublin, as opposed to my need to live somewhere.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-07-2019 12:33pm

Boggles wrote: »

Public doesn't mean Borg.

No idea what that means. Public means public. If you post here, anybody can reply. Crazy, I know.

I asked him to clarify what he meant.

Is ELM327 the only person authorized to reply to your posts here? You think you are being immune from opposition here?

Short of getting the crayons out I don't think I can explain it to you anymore.

How ironic, lol. You are throwing a strop because somebody quoted on on boards.ie. No need to throw your toys out of your pram.

So as you were.

Oh, ending on a condescending tone I see. More deflection

@ELM327 could you ask Boggles why he think's people who are on 24K or less should be entitled to prime real estate in our capital? And what has marriage, kids or co-habiting got to do with the thread?

He seems to have a very strange complex preventing him from engaging with anybody but you. Maybe he's not capable of arguing and this is his way of deflecting. Odd.

10-07-2019 12:36pm

What is more important to people?
1. Where they live?
2. What they work as?

If it is 1, then you need to find a job that allows you to afford this luxury, which may involve re-training, and may take some time.
If it is 2, then they need to consider where they can afford to live based on the salary that they earn, and whether the job exists in an affordable location.

If you work in a niche market, that pays very little, and work only exists in a limited area, then you need some compromise. Such as long commutes, house sharing, etc. Realistically, very few people should be in this position.

If you work in a job, that requires very little training, experience, know-how, you are not going to be earning much more than the minimum wage.If you are earning just above the minimum wage, then generally, you are going to massively impacted with regards to having choice in where you live.
You can't have an easy job (low paid) and an ideal place to live (expensive)

I really struggle to see why people look down on the idea of living and working outside of the M50, especially those who haven't tried it. A lot of these places are actually fantastic places to live and work. I've done so, and the work life balance is so much more relaxing.

thenightman · 10-07-2019 12:43pm

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

People will need to spend money to get those houses. They aren't free you know. Where am I supposed to live if I have to pay for it? Ergo, I am homeless... :rolleyes:

Myself and partner work full time and whatever overtime available and cannot afford to rent together and cover bills/food/health insurance and save for a permanent home (which is required due to the ****eness of landlords here who **** you out on premise of selling the house or letting to a family member then re-list house for rent at 50% rent increase or let it on Airbnb, which has happened us twice)

Your condescending attitude is half the problem with this country. I also work with vulnerable people and I tell you, if you had to experience a day being thrown out of a manky hostel in the morning, walk the streets all day sun/rain/shine and then desperately ring the homeless free phone each evening in order to just have a roof over your head ("sorry full, do you want a sleeping bag?" is common response) you wouldn't be so sneering.

Boggles · 10-07-2019 12:47pm

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

@ELM327 could you ask Boggles why he think's people who are on 24K or less should be entitled to prime real estate in our capital?

Could you point out where I thought that?

I'll give you a clue, I didn't.

Very weird. Answering for people and now posting for people.

Boggles · 10-07-2019 12:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I really struggle to see why people look down on the idea of living and working outside of the M50

Quite simply not everyone are in the position to do it, also I don't think it is a case of people Looking down on it.

SusieBlue · 10-07-2019 12:55pm

ELM327 wrote: »

And if the free market cannot sustain these wants?
Do you expect a socialist government to fund your want to live in dublin, from the pockets of others (who may not be able to afford to live there either, like me) or should you move and pay your own way in society?

You dress it up very well and make some reasonable points. I don't expect nor want a free house, I would like to live within a reasonable commute and I am not living alone. I moved to somewhere that met this threshold and did not expect the taxpayer to fund my want to live in Dublin, as opposed to my need to live somewhere.

As an educated working single woman on a relatively low income with no children, I receive absolutely no government assistance whatsoever, despite paying tax. No medical card, FIS, or council house for me.
So I have no idea where your getting that BS about paying my way. I already do and always have.
I don't expect or want anything for free.

My commute to work is presently 1hr and 20 minutes, and I don't live/work in Dublin. How much further away should I move?

The capital (and indeed other big cities such as Cork) needs low income staff to function. Its not reasonable to expect these people to travel 3hrs each way every day to go to work. The cities would collapse without them.

Those who do not work, by choice or otherwise, get many forms of government assistance as it is.
I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that those who actually do work should be able to enjoy a decent standard of living.
Paying €800 a month for a box room in a house with 5 strangers 90 minutes from your job is not something that is sustainable or acceptable long term.

How does one save for a mortgage when paying that kind of money on rent? And so the cycle continues.

Not denying there is probably some decently priced rentals in Longford and Laois, but those are typically areas of poor employment opportunities. Hence people move to Dublin to have a better shot at a well paying job. Or indeed any job at all, if they aren't that skilled or experienced.
Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

Pawwed Rig · 10-07-2019 1:07pm

thenightman wrote: »

Myself and partner work full time and whatever overtime available and cannot afford to rent together and cover bills/food/health insurance and save for a permanent home (which is required due to the ****eness of landlords here who **** you out on premise of selling the house or letting to a family member then re-list house for rent at 50% rent increase or let it on Airbnb, which has happened us twice

Did you take a case to RTB? If not why not?

Your post comes across as very entitled. You seem to think you have a right to earn enough money to rent aswell as save significant amounts. Why are you entitled to this exactly?

Blackcurrent Lemsip · 10-07-2019 1:15pm

OP instead of running with a few figures of properties which might already be let, maybe try find out how easy it is to get one of them rooms or properties.

Our daughter is starting college in Galway (well CAO pending) and we will be paying accommodation for her. She/we have contacted numerous properties and even though she has our financial backing there is always a reason for rejection. Rooms are being let in the space of hours.

Rooms are anything from 400 to 800 in Galway for a small room big enough for a desk

BarryD2 · 10-07-2019 1:19pm

GooglePlus wrote: »

I'm on 25k at the minute, luckily got an apartment 3 years ago and haven't been given the boot by the landlord yet, so it's only 1500 pm (Sharing so 750 each).

The same apartments in my complex if rented now all exceed 2000, which would be impossible for me.

When it comes to it, I'll most likely have to move out and commute (finding another job isn't an option for me).

Anywhere within a decent commute is now feeling the pressure of the move outs from Dublin, so the rent is increasing by the month in areas like Meath, Kildare, Wicklow.

Of course, if I was on the brink of becoming homeless, a 3 hour bus journey to Wexford would be the preference but it will severely affect my quality of life.

If I could move my job out of Dublin, i'd be gone with it in a heartbeat but as someone has nodded to already, Dublin is full to the brim with 24 - 32k jobs, which just about allow for renting in the place, as long as you don't plan on doing anything else.

Yep, that's tight. I think the OPs general angle might be to shift more people relying largely on social welfare & housing lists out of 'Dublin' and make more space for those who are working and need a place to live?

LoLth · 10-07-2019 1:23pm

The need to live outside Dublin and commute is not the end of the world. I did it myself for years (and still do but slightly closer). Its a pain, you lose a lot of time commuting and its ok for people without kids or that have a partner at home that can hold the fort until they get home to pitch in but it is not going to suit everyone. there will always be exceptions.

It is too simplistic to say that this is the solution because X or this wont work because of Y. The fact is that there is no single solution to fix the current issue of escalating rents that are outside the reach of average wage employees unless they are willing/capable of sharing with 4 strangers. Fine if you are a twenty-something starting out, not great if all 4 have dependants.

Also, while there are some, not every homeless person is homeless because they are holding out for a better offer from the council or the offer they got wasnt enough bedrooms beside their mother who is also in a social house with just herself and 4 bedrooms. There are some decent hardworking people who are homeless through no fault of their own and either do not have the luxury of waiting or have to make a choice between their job which they need to support their family or a roof over their head which they cannot maintain without the job. (What I cannot understand are those that willingly/deliberately go homeless as a strategy to move to the top of a list because their children are in danger....because they put them in that position).

Possible solutions that could help alleviate the issue in my opinion:
Home sharing with the elderly. Old lady has 3 bedrooms, she gets to rent out two and supplement her pension without having to sell the house. problem: could be open to abuse by either party and potential to put an elderly person at risk by housing the wrong person with them

Efficient use of social housing: 3 bedroom house, only a married couple in it, move to a smaller home, reallocate the multi bedroom house to a family that needs it and will utilise it. Give some form of relocation compensation or maybe have a slightly higher price range for these smaller houses to make them more attractive. Is it "uncaring" , no, they have had use of a house for ages. it is not theirs, it is the states to allocate as required.

Finish off the ghost estates by getting small building firms in to complete the work. sell them as affordable housing and provide public transport for X years to the nearest population centre with a decent commute time. Better yet, hire unemployed people looking for social housing to build the houses and then give them one at the end of their apprenticeship - then we get a shed load of qualified builders as well.

Convert NAMA held buildings into mid-term accommodation for families on the waiting lists. But the condition is that when a house comes up that is suitable there is no rejection allowed. - Houses offered would need to be checked for suitability (there have been some awful holes offered to people as family homes. maybe introduce a crime index into the criteria - ie: you cant house kids somewhere the breaking/mugging/car theft rate is greater than some national average).

problem is, nearly all of these will take time and will require money that has to come from some other service. (we could all just pay a water charge and have that funnelled - see what I did there? - directly to social housing provision)

Also, there needs to be a distinction between those that genuinely need a home and those that are homeless because they require rehabilitation before they can be trusted to maintain a home or not be a concern for themselves or their neighbours.

regardless of how you approach this topic, it is not a straightforward fix and it is not going to get discussed fairly or in any detail unless those discussing can a: park their indignation at perceived slights borne out of generalisations and b: have some degree of empathy and stop being cynical dicks when discussing people who genuinely need help.

Tokyo · 10-07-2019 1:24pm

Giovanna High Income wrote: »

Mod: Can we please stop with the píssing contest? If you are going to debate the issue, do so. Otherwise, don't post.

ELM327 · 10-07-2019 1:24pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

As an educated working single woman on a relatively low income with no children, I receive absolutely no government assistance whatsoever, despite paying tax. No medical card, FIS, or council house for me.
So I have no idea where your getting that BS about paying my way. I already do and always have.
I don't expect or want anything for free.

My commute to work is presently 1hr and 20 minutes, and I don't live/work in Dublin. How much further away should I move?

The capital (and indeed other big cities such as Cork) needs low income staff to function. Its not reasonable to expect these people to travel 3hrs each way every day to go to work. The cities would collapse without them.

Those who do not work, by choice or otherwise, get many forms of government assistance as it is.
I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that those who actually do work should be able to enjoy a decent standard of living.
Paying €800 a month for a box room in a house with 5 strangers 90 minutes from your job is not something that is sustainable or acceptable long term.

How does one save for a mortgage when paying that kind of money on rent? And so the cycle continues.

Not denying there is probably some decently priced rentals in Longford and Laois, but those are typically areas of poor employment opportunities. Hence people move to Dublin to have a better shot at a well paying job. Or indeed any job at all, if they aren't that skilled or experienced.
Do you not see the flaw in your logic?

I think you may have mistaken my hypothetical rewriting of your question as being a dig at you. Far from it, and I wasn't accusing you of being on any benefits either.

I'm saying it's not realistic that everyone with a job can live in Dublin.
It's like expecting everyone to be rich. It's a nice idea but the law of supply and demand renders it impossible.

Our combined income as a couple is in the 6 figures and if we can't afford to live in Dublin (not willing to live in not nice areas , btw), then there's probably not that many that can.

ELM327 · 10-07-2019 1:30pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Yep, that's tight. I think the OPs general angle might be to shift more people relying largely on social welfare & housing lists out of 'Dublin' and make more space for those who are working and need a place to live?

This makes sense, why should the state (and for the state read you and i and everyone else who is working) pay for a free house for those who don't work, in an area where the working population cannot afford to live.

LoLth wrote: »

The need to live outside Dublin and commute is not the end of the world. I did it myself for years (and still do but slightly closer). Its a pain, you lose a lot of time commuting and its ok for people without kids or that have a partner at home that can hold the fort until they get home to pitch in but it is not going to suit everyone. there will always be exceptions.

Agreed but you have to live within your means and evaluate other options apart from wanting to live in Dublin and screeching until you get it, you know?

LoLth wrote: »

It is too simplistic to say that this is the solution because X or this wont work because of Y. The fact is that there is no single solution to fix the current issue of escalating rents that are outside the reach of average wage employees unless they are willing/capable of sharing with 4 strangers. Fine if you are a twenty-something starting out, not great if all 4 have dependants.

This is true for sure.

LoLth wrote: »

Also, while there are some, not every homeless person is homeless because they are holding out for a better offer from the council or the offer they got wasnt enough bedrooms beside their mother who is also in a social house with just herself and 4 bedrooms. There are some decent hardworking people who are homeless through no fault of their own and either do not have the luxury of waiting or have to make a choice between their job which they need to support their family or a roof over their head which they cannot maintain without the job. (What I cannot understand are those that willingly/deliberately go homeless as a strategy to move to the top of a list because their children are in danger....because they put them in that position).

Unfortunately it is the cases like ms cash and her ilk that get the news cover, not the cases where people are in genuine need through no fault of their own after contributing to society.

The question (to which I genuinely don't know the answer and would like to see some quantification) is which is the corner case, the leech or the "hard luck" prior contributor?

LoLth wrote: »

Possible solutions that could help alleviate the issue in my opinion:
Home sharing with the elderly. Old lady has 3 bedrooms, she gets to rent out two and supplement her pension without having to sell the house. problem: could be open to abuse by either party and potential to put an elderly person at risk by housing the wrong person with them

Efficient use of social housing: 3 bedroom house, only a married couple in it, move to a smaller home, reallocate the multi bedroom house to a family that needs it and will utilise it. Give some form of relocation compensation or maybe have a slightly higher price range for these smaller houses to make them more attractive. Is it "uncaring" , no, they have had use of a house for ages. it is not theirs, it is the states to allocate as required.

Finish off the ghost estates by getting small building firms in to complete the work. sell them as affordable housing and provide public transport for X years to the nearest population centre with a decent commute time. Better yet, hire unemployed people looking for social housing to build the houses and then give them one at the end of their apprenticeship - then we get a shed load of qualified builders as well.

Convert NAMA held buildings into mid-term accommodation for families on the waiting lists. But the condition is that when a house comes up that is suitable there is no rejection allowed. - Houses offered would need to be checked for suitability (there have been some awful holes offered to people as family homes. maybe introduce a crime index into the criteria - ie: you cant house kids somewhere the breaking/mugging/car theft rate is greater than some national average).

problem is, nearly all of these will take time and will require money that has to come from some other service. (we could all just pay a water charge and have that funnelled - see what I did there? - directly to social housing provision)

Some good ideas but most are not workable, you can't expect the elderly to house share!
You cannot convert NAMA properties to private rentals, I'm sure that breaches EU state aid rules if nothing else.

LoLth wrote: »

Also, there needs to be a distinction between those that genuinely need a home and those that are homeless because they require rehabilitation before they can be trusted to maintain a home or not be a concern for themselves or their neighbours.

regardless of how you approach this topic, it is not a straightforward fix and it is not going to get discussed fairly or in any detail unless those discussing can a: park their indignation at perceived slights borne out of generalisations and b: have some degree of empathy and stop being cynical dicks when discussing people who genuinely need help.

Agreed.

rireland · 10-07-2019 1:32pm

dudara wrote: »

There is an element of this, yes, but there’s also no denying that rents are exorbitantly high in Dublin, this putting homes out of reach of many people. This rental crisis is impacting lower paid employees, but is also reaching upwards and impacting salaried people who wouldn’t previously have experienced this.

When you see Daft ads showing rooms crammed full of bunk beds, you have to despair. This is a far more complex problem than “forever homes”

https://www.daft.ie/sligo/houses-for-rent/ballinode/no-1-brookfield-ballinode-sligo-1944589/

Nice 3 bed in Sligo for 280 a month.

You could afford this on the dole.

I know if I was facing homelessness I wouldn't care if I had to move across the country. I'd rather move 2 hours away than be homeless.

gibgodsman · 10-07-2019 1:34pm

ELM327 wrote: »

in dublin.

They can however move elsewhere.
There is no crisis, just an excess in demand for dublin properties which does not exist elsewhere. Plenty of houses in Longford. Cheap too.

Sorry but thats absolutely nonsense. I move to Meath when I hit 19 because the rents in Dublin were already outrageous. Apartment was 500 a month which was actually quite high at the time. Same apartments are now on daft for 12-1500 a month. That is a 1 bed apartment, in Navan.... there is absolutely a housing crisis, not a homelessness one. I work full time, my missus does to, but if you want to afford to rent anywhere now you both need to be on good salarys and willing to put 30% minimum of it towards rent.

GooglePlus · 10-07-2019 1:38pm

rireland wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/sligo/houses-for-rent/ballinode/no-1-brookfield-ballinode-sligo-1944589/

Nice 3 bed in Sligo for 280 a month.

You could afford this on the dole.

I know if I was facing homelessness I wouldn't care if I had to move across the country. I'd rather move 2 hours away than be homeless.

I've a feeling that is 280pp sharing.

The landlord mentions that it fits 5 students and is near sligo IT.

280e for the entire house including bins?

ELM327 · 10-07-2019 1:42pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

Sorry but thats absolutely nonsense. I move to Meath when I hit 19 because the rents in Dublin were already outrageous. Apartment was 500 a month which was actually quite high at the time. Same apartments are now on daft for 12-1500 a month. That is a 1 bed apartment, in Navan.... there is absolutely a housing crisis, not a homelessness one. I work full time, my missus does to, but if you want to afford to rent anywhere now you both need to be on good salarys and willing to put 30% minimum of it towards rent.

That's interesting because I moved from a 6 bed house in Navan (1k per month) to a 3 bed in Athboy , last year, and am now paying 400 per month).

The houses are out there, in Meath, sub 500 per month mortgage and sub 1k rent for sure.

James Brown · 10-07-2019 1:44pm

JustAThought wrote: »

July 2019 & today there are 3,140 house share rooms and over 8,500 houses to rent on daft.ie
Isn't it about time journalists started quoting these figures when reporting 'homeless' figures.

Money. Imagine you needed a car and only 2019 BMW's were available?

ELM327 wrote: »

It's not a homeless crisis or a housing crisis, it's an "I want a free/heavily taxpayer subsidized house next to mummy" crisis.

Yep, you keep believing that. You must be fierce annoyed at all the time, money and energy goes into this nothing.

3,140 rooms to rent & 8,500 houses to rent -what 'homeless' crisis

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