3,140 rooms to rent & 8,500 houses to rent -what 'homeless' crisis

blackbox

gibgodsman wrote: »

Sorry but thats absolutely nonsense. I move to Meath when I hit 19 because the rents in Dublin were already outrageous. Apartment was 500 a month which was actually quite high at the time. Same apartments are now on daft for 12-1500 a month. That is a 1 bed apartment, in Navan.... there is absolutely a housing crisis, not a homelessness one. I work full time, my missus does to, but if you want to afford to rent anywhere now you both need to be on good salarys and willing to put 30% minimum of it towards rent.

Is spending 30% of your income on accommodation unreasonable?

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats it , loads of people living in their ma’s or in a hotel prepared to turn on the waterworks and say its a disgrace and hold out till FG magically authorises the building of 3 bed semi’s with a back garden inside the m50

How many? I could say only two people are as you describe, a lad called Simon and a girl called Patricia.

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yep, you keep believing that. You must be fierce annoyed at all the time, money and energy goes into this nothing.

Care to elaborate on that?
Why would I be annoyed? It's an unfortunate reality of living in an socialist banana republic like ours. Radical acceptance trumps permanent annoyance.

markodaly

blackbox wrote: »

Is spending 30% of your income on accommodation unreasonable?

I thought the general consensus was that spending 25% to 35% of your income on accommodation was the benchmark.

On the topic itself, we need to build more of course, but we need to get out of the habit of building 3-bed semi's.

We need to build high-density apartments around the city, but the last DCC dominated by the left and SF has for years rejected this premise.

In fact, they are adamant that Dublin is a low-profile city and should remain as is. Great, so where is everyone going to live??

ELM327

blackbox wrote: »

Is spending 30% of your income on accommodation unreasonable?

Yes, when the state will give it to you for much less if you can have a few children without a plan to support them.

ELM327

markodaly wrote: »

I thought the general consensus was that spending 25% to 35% of your income on accommodation was the benchmark.

On the topic itself, we need to build more of course, but we need to get out of the habit of building 3-bed semi's.

We need to build high-density apartments around the city, but the last DCC dominated by the left and SF has for years rejected this premise.

In fact, they are adamant that Dublin is a low-profile city and should remain as is. Great, so where is everyone going to live??

Nail on head.



We need to build up, that supplies the needed demand and brings prices down for everyone. Unfortunately you need a right wing pro development government with balls to bring in that policy, and our current government and the lead opposition party are neither of those

xckjoo

ELM327 wrote: »

And if the free market cannot sustain these wants?
Do you expect a socialist government to fund your want to live in dublin, from the pockets of others (who may not be able to afford to live there either, like me) or should you move and pay your own way in society?


You dress it up very well and make some reasonable points. I don't expect nor want a free house, I would like to live within a reasonable commute and I am not living alone. I moved to somewhere that met this threshold and did not expect the taxpayer to fund my want to live in Dublin, as opposed to my need to live somewhere.

You didn't pay for the roads you use to commute. Why is the socialist government funding your want to commute long distances from other tax payers money? :pac:

weldoninhio

rireland wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/sligo/houses-for-rent/ballinode/no-1-brookfield-ballinode-sligo-1944589/

Nice 3 bed in Sligo for 280 a month.

You could afford this on the dole.

I know if I was facing homelessness I wouldn't care if I had to move across the country. I'd rather move 2 hours away than be homeless.

So you have a job in Dublin, but it doesn't afford you the comfort to afford a place in Dublin, you are about to be kicked out of your house share and you are advocating moving to Sligo to pay E280 a month??

ELM327

xckjoo wrote: »

You didn't pay for the roads you use to commute. Why is the socialist government funding your want to commute long distances from other tax payers money? :pac:

That's interesting.
Care to tell me then what my "motor" tax of €1494 for my last car, and €570 for the current one, paid for?

ELM327

weldoninhio wrote: »

So you have a job in Dublin, but it doesn't afford you the comfort to afford a place in Dublin, you are about to be kicked out of your house share and you are advocating moving to Sligo to pay E280 a month??

And getting a job there.

Plumbthedepths

ELM327 wrote:

That's interesting. Care to tell me then what my "motor" tax of €1494 for my last car, and €570 for the current one, paid for?

Water .

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Care to elaborate on that?
Why would I be annoyed? It's an unfortunate reality of living in an socialist banana republic like ours. Radical acceptance trumps permanent annoyance.

What don't you understand? You seem outraged about a problem you don't believe exists. So I was asking did it annoy you that so much time effort and money was spent on this fantasy?

This might help your flat earth mentality; They measure homelessness and housing issues. You can completely disagree with the methodology, that's fine.
However, even if it's exaggerated, the figures break records year on year. Even after Eoghan massaged the books, it's still growing for both housing and homelessness. So even if you think half of them are pretending or any other made up theory, by the measurements, even if exaggerated, it gets worse every year.
Do you think the hospital trolley crisis is people just like dying in corridors?

xckjoo

ELM327 wrote: »

That's interesting.
Care to tell me then what my "motor" tax of €1494 for my last car, and €570 for the current one, paid for?

Sweet FA if you look at the cost breakdowns of roads, etc. Private car usage is heavily subsidised from general taxation and the likes. Anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent. I was more making a point about how we all rely on general taxation subsidising out lives. Your choice to live in a lower rent area does not have a zero cost to the rest of us.

Boggles

ELM327 wrote: »

That's interesting.
Care to tell me then what my "motor" tax of €1494 for my last car, and €570 for the current one, paid for?

Half dozen "water conservation grants".

SusieBlue

ELM327 wrote: »

I think you may have mistaken my hypothetical rewriting of your question as being a dig at you. Far from it, and I wasn't accusing you of being on any benefits either.


I'm saying it's not realistic that everyone with a job can live in Dublin.
It's like expecting everyone to be rich. It's a nice idea but the law of supply and demand renders it impossible.


Our combined income as a couple is in the 6 figures and if we can't afford to live in Dublin (not willing to live in not nice areas , btw), then there's probably not that many that can.

The supply and demand of well paying jobs in sparsely populated midland towns just isn't there. Its even worse for unskilled/inexperienced people.
That's why people move away from them.

With the absence of affordable housing for working professionals within commutable distance of the big cities, coupled with our piss poor standard of public transport, what you'd actually end up having is educated, valuable members of the workforce ending up burning out and on social welfare because the burden of the commute would take its toll eventually.
It simply isn't sustainable for most people to do a long distance commute indefinitely.

If building/letting affordable housing proportionate to the actual average salary isn't possible, at the very least we need to make serious improvements to our public transport so that those on low incomes can commute more efficiently and not spend hours sat in traffic jams on buses, as is currently the case across the country.

Affordable (not free, affordable) housing in our big cities for our workforce benefits everyone, so I can't understand why you are so against it.

Boggles

xckjoo wrote: »

Sweet FA if you look at the cost breakdowns of roads, etc. Private car usage is heavily subsidised from general taxation and the likes. Anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent. I was more making a point about how we all rely on general taxation subsidising out lives. Your choice to live in a lower rent area does not have a zero cost to the rest of us.

Really?

Car tax is a little over a billion which is actually the same budget or a little more than our road maintenance and improvement budget.

Have you a figure of what an actual private car contributes to the economy?

VRT
Servicing
Parts
Fuel
Labour
Testing
Etc.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just wondering where and who costed it?

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What don't you understand? You seem outraged about a problem you don't believe exists. So I was asking did it annoy you that so much time effort and money was spent on this fantasy?

This might help your flat earth mentality; They measure homelessness and housing issues. You can completely disagree with the methodology, that's fine.
However, even if it's exaggerated, the figures break records year on year. Even after Eoghan massaged the books, it's still growing for both housing and homelessness. So even if you think half of them are pretending or any other made up theory, by the measurements, even if exaggerated, it gets worse every year.
Do you think the hospital trolley crisis is people just like dying in corridors?

buh bye
(PS: Examples of how to debate without insulting come from many posters on this thread, including susieblue's post below, might be worth reading)

SusieBlue wrote: »

The supply and demand of well paying jobs in sparsely populated midland towns just isn't there. Its even worse for unskilled/inexperienced people.
That's why people move away from them.

With the absence of affordable housing for working professionals within commutable distance of the big cities, coupled with our piss poor standard of public transport, what you'd actually end up having is educated, valuable members of the workforce ending up burning out and on social welfare because the burden of the commute would take its toll eventually.
It simply isn't sustainable for most people to do a long distance commute indefinitely.

If building/letting affordable housing proportionate to the actual average salary isn't possible, at the very least we need to make serious improvements to our public transport so that those on low incomes can commute more efficiently and not spend hours sat in traffic jams on buses, as is currently the case across the country.

Affordable (not free, affordable) housing in our big cities for our workforce benefits everyone, so I can't understand why you are so against it.

Affordable housing must be paid for by everyone, if you enforce a max selling price then the developer pays for it. If you subsidise it from general taxation, we all pay for it. There can't just be now "affordable" housing, without a) market interference from a country that has a track record of an inability to self govern and b) a cost from general taxation.




I don't see why there is this groundswell of support for pseudo socialist groups like sinn fein and PBP et al.

I'd expect it was just me being too capitalist (compared to the Irish population at large, I generally am) but there are plenty of others who seem to agree with me..... an unusual occurrence considering boards is rather more left wing than society at large for most instances.

For what it's worth, I do agree that there are less high skilled jobs outside Dublin. I work in the credit risk field and if I could find a job in Meath in that field at all I'd love to take it but the salary would probably be half what I am on now.

ELM327

Boggles wrote: »

Really?

Car tax is a little over a billion which is actually the same budget or a little more than our road maintenance and improvement budget.

Have you a figure of what an actual private car contributes to the economy?

VRT
Servicing
Parts
Fuel
Labour
Testing
Etc.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just wondering where and who costed it?

Not to mention the near €1 per litre we pay in fuel tax. Doing 50k per annum the fuel tax adds up.

ThunbergsAreGo

LoLth wrote: »

Efficient use of social housing: 3 bedroom house, only a married couple in it, move to a smaller home, reallocate the multi bedroom house to a family that needs it and will utilise it. Give some form of relocation compensation or maybe have a slightly higher price range for these smaller houses to make them more attractive. Is it "uncaring" , no, they have had use of a house for ages. it is not theirs, it is the states to allocate as required.

This 100%, was brought up on the Dunphy Podcast recently.
Our social housing is being horribly under utlised - better a family of 5 in a 3 bedroom house than a married or single person. It is not a house for life

SortingYouOut

ELM327 wrote: »

Not to mention the near €1 per litre we pay in fuel tax. Doing 50k per annum the fuel tax adds up.

And our roads are still a joke.

I'd actually recommend anyone looking for accomodation to reside in one of the potholes out my direction, you'd be set for life.

weldoninhio

ELM327 wrote: »

And getting a job there.

Had a quick look on Jobs.ie there, Sligo is not exactly a hotbed of economic activity. So unless you walk into a job straight away, say it takes 2/3 weeks what would you propose the aforementioned person pays a deposit with? their first few weeks wages? food?

markodaly

If we want to build social housing then we need to raise money for this, the most obvious one would be a property tax of some sort.
Yet the same groups and people speaking blue murder about the homeless are also in favour of abolishing property tax, one of the best ways to tax wealth.

Socialists and left-wingers against a wealth tax. Yeap, this is Ireland 2019.

People harp on about the large social housing projects of the 1930s and 1950s but forget the tax people had to pay on their homes that paid for this. There was not one but two types of rates people had to pay, one was a rate for your house and the other was a social rate, which went to the building of other homes. These were scrapped over the course of mostly FF governments.

I presume those wanting solutions will have no problems with the re-introduction of these rates?

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

buh bye
(PS: Examples of how to debate without insulting come from many posters on this thread, including susieblue's post below, might be worth reading)

You don't believe theres a problem. That's complete fantasy. I would put it on par with climate change denial and flat earthers. In short, it's measured and even if exaggerated, it's worse year on year.

ELM327 wrote: »

Affordable housing must be paid for by everyone, if you enforce a max selling price then the developer pays for it. If you subsidise it from general taxation, we all pay for it. There can't just be now "affordable" housing, without a) market interference from a country that has a track record of an inability to self govern and b) a cost from general taxation.

There are two main ways to achieve affordable housing:

A) The state/LA pays a private developer to build homes we own and sell above cost. We make our money back and people get affordable housing. Win win.

We give concessions and subsidies to private developers so we get a percentage of built stock to use as social or affordable housing.

I'd be inclined to go with option 'A'.

Currently we are spending tax monies on hotels, HAP, subsidising rents to private landlords and buying homes on the market at the going rate, to use as social housing. This is a massive waste of tax payer money.

xckjoo

Boggles wrote: »

Really?

Car tax is a little over a billion which is actually the same budget or a little more than our road maintenance and improvement budget.

Have you a figure of what an actual private car contributes to the economy?

VRT
Servicing
Parts
Fuel
Labour
Testing
Etc.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just wondering where and who costed it?

Nah not to hand. It's been a few years since I read up on it.

On the other hand, I do believe there's merit in a return to town/village set ups, where satellite towns/villages could be used to live and good transport infrastructure in place for commuting to cities for work and play.

Assetbacked

naughtb4 wrote: »

This 100%, was brought up on the Dunphy Podcast recently.
Our social housing is being horribly under utlised - better a family of 5 in a 3 bedroom house than a married or single person. It is not a house for life

Those who raised their families in social housing with those families now moved out, should be required to move to smaller units in order to enable the next generation to move in. The house-for-life mentality is ridiculous and entirely unfair.

rireland

weldoninhio wrote: »

So you have a job in Dublin, but it doesn't afford you the comfort to afford a place in Dublin, you are about to be kicked out of your house share and you are advocating moving to Sligo to pay E280 a month??

How many homeless people had jobs before they were made homeless?

cfuserkildare

xckjoo wrote: »

Nah not to hand. It's been a few years since I read up on it.

On the other hand, I do believe there's merit in a return to town/village set ups, where satellite towns/villages could be used to live and good transport infrastructure in place for commuting to cities for work and play.

Therein lies the issue.

The transport infrastructure in this country is one of the worst in Europe.
There is only one bus service where I live, and that's only 12 miles outside Dublin City Center.

gibgodsman

ELM327 wrote: »

That's interesting because I moved from a 6 bed house in Navan (1k per month) to a 3 bed in Athboy , last year, and am now paying 400 per month).


The houses are out there, in Meath, sub 500 per month mortgage and sub 1k rent for sure.

You live in Athboy, which is basically in the middle of nowhere, where do you work? If not in Athboy how much are you now paying to get to work? Also there is currently 0 properties to rent in Athboy..... so yeah....

SusieBlue

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Therein lies the issue.

The transport infrastructure in this country is one of the worst in Europe.
There is only one bus service where I live, and that's only 12 miles outside Dublin City Center.

Exactly. I work about a 15/20 minute drive from my job. If I want to make it in for 8am, I need to get the 6:40am bus. To get that bus I need to leave home at 6:15am.
And yet I'm still late for work a few times a month, due to the bus not showing up, being too full, or being stuck in traffic.

I'm lucky that I can walk it in roughly an hour or so if the weather is good but that isn't always possible in this climate, particularly in the winter.

James Brown

rireland wrote: »

How many homeless people had jobs before they were made homeless?

There are homeless working tax payers.