Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Motivator wrote: »

I wasn’t saying to have a dig at Limerick fans, they were laughing at what they were seeing and I can’t blame them. From one of the big counties to put in a performance like that it was shameful. Limerick are the All Ireland champions, they were coming off the back of a poor performance against Cork. These used to be the type of games that Waterford relished - fans and players alike. Yesterday it looked like the players and management would rather have been anywhere else but Walsh Park.

God be with the days of the flags, bunting, air horns and excitement that surrounded Waterford in the summer. We didn’t realise how good we had it from 1998 to 2007. Those were the glory days for Waterford and their supporters. Since 2007 we’ve had about 3 good days out with the county and it’s actually depressing to see how we’ve ended up. Looking back we were probably lucky to reach the final in 2017 and Jesus with a bit of luck we could have nicked it from Galway. Since 5 o clock that day in 2017 it’s gone from bad to worse for us.

I know you weren't having a dig I was saying what I said cos I know what it feels like to get a beating like that for us it was 2009 v tipp in croker plus cork kk and tipp themselves have got heavy beatings in last few yrs so it is recoverable if the proper structures are put in place. I'm not going to belittle what happened yesterday as it was bad but there's always hope I genuinely thought I'd never see limerick winning the all ireland but we did so can Waterford in the future not easy but can be done

_blaaz wrote: »

What other county gives up after 20 mins and only 2pts in it??



Its a joke excusing this behaviour.....no matter how bad the all ireland of 08 defeat was....noone carried on like what went on yesterday in walsh park


Nicky quaid came out and even said he felt embarassed for us

We were caught cold in '08. The players were spooked either by the occasion or Kilkenny's aggression or both. But some of them did give up, more or less

JeffKenna wrote: »

You know if they wanted to waste a year of their career then so be it. The really shameful thing is they decided to take the lads who played with pride with them.

And us the fans who have wasted the last few weekends following a group of mercenaries who couldnt give a sh1t.

For Derek's sake I hope he doesn't come back, yes we had some of our best days under him and he gave it 110% but he took them as far as he can, this group couldn't give any more for him.

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

We were caught cold in '08. The players were spooked either by the occasion or Kilkenny's aggression or both. But some of them did give up, more or less

To be fair to all concerned, what happened in 2008 was car crash stuff. Ken McGrath said it in his book that he felt they should have gotten councelling after that. I remember the banquet that evening I met a couple of the players over the course of the night and they were genuinely devastated and some of them still say they aren’t over it.

The 2008 final and the current situation is incomparable. Sadly, June 2008 and the current situation are comparable.

What I don’t get is why players train from October to now to give up. Why bother? If they don’t like the set up or the man in charge then walk away. There’s plenty of lads on the bench and the extended panel who have trained for days like yesterday.

How the **** could any self respecting player not want to turn around in a couple of years time and say that they stood toe to toe with the All Ireland winners in Walsh Park. I genuinely don’t get it. I had teachers in school that I didn’t like or didn’t get on with but I didn’t walk into the class every day and not bother my arse trying. I got on with it because at the end of the day the teachers job and my aim were the same thing. I wanted to get an education and they wanted to give me one. There’s a common goal regardless of personal relationships and the same theory applies to intercounty players and managers. Have the several hundred players that have come and gone under Brian Cody all loved him? Not at all, I’d say the vast majority of lads hated him but they all respected him and got on with the job because they all wanted the same thing. They all wanted to win.

It’s easy for me to say it but if I had ever been good enough to play for Waterford I can honestly say I wouldn’t have cared less if Hitler was the manager. As long as he wanted to win games I’d have shut up and got on with it no questions asked. I’m getting more and more annoyed going back over the last few weeks in my head but the bottom line is this, if these players are so precious with regards to the management set up or who gets to choose the music on the bus or whatever it is that’s causing this, we can forget about any sort of silverware for an awful long time. If my son was of an age and had a level of ability where he was close to breaking through on to this current Waterford team I wouldn’t let him play. Would I want my son being involved in a situation where fellas who are the best at what they do are happy to give up in their biggest match of the year, at home, in front of their own people? Would I fuçk. I wouldn’t want him anywhere near it and that’s what’s coming down the line here.

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Apparently when Michael Collins came to Waterford looking for support for the uprising he was thought to have left the message to visitors to the city: “tread carefully, you might wake Waterford”. That lack of internal drive seems to exist even today. It’s a forlorn city right now. I mean the “recession” is five years ago but you wouldn’t know it in Waterford. It’s something in the general psyche.

Theres something in what you're saying. Even going back to the 90's/2000's team. You were never confident in them that they'd go right to the end. They seemed to be looking for the easy way to win games, clever flicks, audacious shots etc When it worked it was brilliant and they could blow teams off the park after 15 minutes, but when it came to wrestling teams in the mud they were often found wanting.

I wouldnt fancy modding this thread for the next few months, the bile and nastiness will likely break the boards servers

Steve wrote: »

Folks, some of the comments posted here tonight are really deplorable.

If you continue with the petty squabbles then this thread will be closed and you will have nowhere to discuss Waterford GAA in future,

Please report problem posts rather than responding to them in future, thanks.

I shall be reviewing this evenings mod actions as I believe they were perhaps too lenient.

Hear hear...one fella looking for a pat on the back, the other a wind up merchant.

48 hours later and the pain of defeat is actually worse that it was Sunday? Because on reflection of the whole debacle i am struggling to see any way forward. Can anyone honestly see any manager of substance, never mind a manger trying to make a name for themselves, wanting to take charge of a group of players who act like spoiled children when they don't get what they want, and that is before the new manager would have to deal with our county board.

Lots of comments on here about underage structures, and criticism of this years minor side - this is not the root of our current problem - in actual fact this years side is one of the most competitive i have seen and last years was a very decent side also - do people think other counties are not putting the same if not more resources into their panels - of course they are. Again I will quote, look at the performances of Calum Lyons, Conor Prunty, and Jack Prednergast last Sunday, three young lads who have not had the chance to become infected by years of light touch mothering and being spoiled rotten. Those three lads have not forgotten the importance of being selected to represent your county. I will never forget the look on the face of Calum Lyons as he ran towards the tunnel at full time on Sunday even, he was visibly upset by what had happened, despite he working himself into the ground and competing manfully to the last whistle against supposedly vastly superior opposition. I did not see this emotion repeated on many others.

While there are undoubtedly deficiencies with our underage structures, they are producing decent raw material, look at last years under 21 side - but unfortunately their progression is stopping once they enter the senior grade. Can anyone honestly name even two Senior players whose game has improved or developed over the last four years - for me the majority have gone backwards!

People say we have no forwards, rubbish, we could have had a full forward line of Henry Shefflin, Patrick Horgan, and Seamus Callinan last Sunday and they would have struggled with the quality and supply of ball being delivered.

This panel needs a wrecking ball to be taken to it to root out the poison that is endemic in it at present, and unfortunately i do not see how this is going to happen. Regrettably Pauric Fanning does not seem up to the task so it will most likely be back to the return of the "messiah" telling everyone how he was right all along, his point has been proven about the need for defensive set up. At the same time he will probably continue telling anyone that will listen that the vast majority of supporters are idiots who don't know what they are talking about and don't understand what he is doing. Mind you these are the same idiots who he will be asking to fund his "playgroup" and provide new rattlers for them, especially since most of them threw theirs away last Sunday.

I am a realist, I am following Waterford Hurling longer than i care to remember, I have seen plenty of extremely poor sides beaten out the gate because of poor quality, poor preparation and poor tactics and accepted this

I have always defended my county and the players who represent it, but last Sunday, there was no defence for the majority, to me they "went on strike" and in doing so stuck two fingers up to the honest decent supporters, those same supporters who dug deep to fund their lavish holiday to Cancun, since which i don't think they have won a meaningful game of any sort.

Instead of ordering new rattlers, time to order some mirrors, because a lot of these lads need to have a long hard look at themselves and decide do they really want to represent Waterford. The sickening point is that they do have the talent and ability, they have shown that in previous displays against top quality opposition, and this for me is the hardest part to take.

Motivator wrote: »

What I don’t get is why players train from October to now to give up. Why bother? If they don’t like the set up or the man in charge then walk away. There’s plenty of lads on the bench and the extended panel who have trained for days like yesterday.

How the **** could any self respecting player not want to turn around in a couple of years time and say that they stood toe to toe with the All Ireland winners in Walsh Park. I genuinely don’t get it. .

A lot of them don’t know any different, they’ve been involved in intercounty teams since primary game, even at that age are big fish in their local schools/area. They’ve been mentored and mollycoddled from an early age. GAA is all they know a lot of them would be lost without it it. As much as some of them have given up and don’t want to try a leg they still don’t consider packing it in and can’t envisage a life without it. I’d actually admire the lads that do have balls the balls to walk away if their not happy. kind of sad in many ways

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

After three games played, Carlow's scoring difference in the Leinster championship is better than Waterford's in Munster...

carter10 wrote: »

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

Now that you mention it there is a lot of half arsed effort across the board in relation to Waterford GAA.

Waterford GAA is like a time warp. Was it Brian Corcoran said in his book 13/14 years ago . . . 'Waterford . . Fighting . . Losing. . Blaming Others'.
Yes, Cork have a bit of their own history since then but when they went on strike they did it properly, rather that than the cowardly way we saw on Sunday by some, not all it must be said.

A lot of Cork folk, including Dónal Óg Cusack, seem to have forgotten https://m.independent.ie/sport/hurling/galway-glide-past-woeful-rebels-26041236.html

hardybuck wrote: »

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

What you say is correct but would you have any confidence in the established players bothering this weekend? Playing them could be even worse. I felt sorry for the full back line last weekend looking up to play passes and realistically only Miley Kearney wanted the ball.

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

What you say is correct but would you have any confidence in the established players bothering this weekend? Playing them could be even worse. I felt sorry for the full back line last weekend looking up to play passes and realistically only Miley Kearney wanted the ball.

I definitely get the temptation to drop a significant number of them but I think it would be counterproductive.

It should be made clear to the players that if they don't at the very least die with their boots on in Cork, there will be a significant overhaul of players next season - probably conducted by a new management team.

At least then if they disgrace the jersey like that again they can't whinge next year when they're not involved.

Agree with both sentiments, understanding the logic behind each one. Personally i would mix and match, given some lads a chance to redeem themselves whilst giving the likes of Colm Roche, Shane McNulty, Darragh Lyons etc.., a chance to show how much it means to them to play for their county. The attacks have been many and scathing and for the most point justified, if this team cannot react to this, then they need to be dismantled.

The big fear I have, and i could be a million miles wrong, is that certain elements of the team are doing this to deliberately engineer the return of the previous management, and if we do give into this blackmail and go down that road, where does it stop?

A lot of people, players and managers, give out about supporters voicing opinions. As long as it is not voiced in a personal or aggressive manner I believe supporters being given their chance to voice opinion is a very important part of sport. After all they are the ones offering financial support through attendances, club subscriptions, fund raising and financial events. Many of those supporters have worked with and provided the players that are on the current panel through their clubs over the years and are very knowledgeable, loyal and passionate - and most of all they know when they are being conned, and they deserve to be heard.

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

Confirmed with my own eyes on Sunday

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

Am i reading this right - 2 nights on the beer ?