Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

carter10

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

carter10

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

carter10

*Matty Kenny

hardybuck

After three games played, Carlow's scoring difference in the Leinster championship is better than Waterford's in Munster...

Dammo

hardybuck wrote: »

After three games played, Carlow's scoring difference in the Leinster championship is better than Waterford's in Munster...

Jesus, surely as a player you can express your dissatisfaction with management (if that’s the case) without making a holy show of yourself and your county. The lack of effort and passion is beyond embarrassing.

JesusRef

carter10 wrote: »

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

Now that you mention it there is a lot of half arsed effort across the board in relation to Waterford GAA.

hardybuck

A business organisation would be conducting a root and branch review of their structures at this point, taking the views of all key stakeholders into account.

The senior team is the end product of all the efforts throughout the different layers of administration, of local volunteers working in the clubs, underage - everything.

The recurring theme is a shoddy and half arsed effort at most things. The anthems, the state of the stadium for the last decade, dirty press box etc. etc.

Add to that the poor attendances at club games. Struggling to get championships finished in time for provincial championships. Throwing out football teams out to be slaughtered after only pulling together a management team a few weeks beforehand. Running out of money and needing to be supported by Croke Park.

It's not doom and gloom completely, but if a Chief Executive ran a show like this the Board would have them out. I think the problem here is that there's no external oversight and constructive challenge within the organisation, all the candidates for senior positions are coming from the same pool of candidates who've been there forever, which allows it to turn into an echo chamber where some things slip and some things are done pretty shoddily.

If at the end of the season the senior hurling management are packing their bags, a lot of the board executive should be doing likewise, and replaced by a more diverse group - some of whom come from the existing structures but also some from outside the GAA and from different professional backgrounds.

mistermiyagi

Waterford GAA is like a time warp. Was it Brian Corcoran said in his book 13/14 years ago . . . 'Waterford . . Fighting . . Losing. . Blaming Others'.
Yes, Cork have a bit of their own history since then but when they went on strike they did it properly, rather that than the cowardly way we saw on Sunday by some, not all it must be said.

deiseach

This thread is like Arsenal Fan TV without the laughs. Fam blud.

TheScoringGoal

A lot of Cork folk, including Dónal Óg Cusack, seem to have forgotten https://m.independent.ie/sport/hurling/galway-glide-past-woeful-rebels-26041236.html

KevIRL

Dont Stop wrote: »

Heres my alternate team next week.

Billy Nolan GK
Callum Lyons CB
C Gleeson FB
Noel Connors CB
C Prunty WB
A Gleeson CB
D Fives WB
Shane Bennett CM
C Roche CM
T Ryan WF
J Prendergast CF
M Shanahan WF
S Bennett CF
Brick FF
Kearney

Look at bringing in Sean Power and Paul Flynn for the last game. Take stock then over the summer and next winter.

Personally would only start Lyons, Prunty and Jack Prendergast from Sunday. All of the fringe and squad players such as Daragh Lyons, Billy Nolan, Colm Roche, Stephen Roche, Kieran Bennett, Mark O Brien, Jordan Henley, DJ Foran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Brian O Halloran and Colin Dunford should be considered for starts ahead of those involved last Sunday. Any of them who were on the lash Sunday or Monday in Nicky's though I wouldnt start and go down to the under 20 squad if required

bullpost

The problem with the new system is your whole season can be out the window after a couple of bad games. Not sure if this is a factor on teams who are trying to rebuild etc. And this in a massively competitive Munster . At least under the old system if things went bad, you got a break and a chance to regroup through the backdoor system.

hardybuck

KevIRL wrote: »

Personally would only start Lyons, Prunty and Jack Prendergast from Sunday. All of the fringe and squad players such as Daragh Lyons, Billy Nolan, Colm Roche, Stephen Roche, Kieran Bennett, Mark O Brien, Jordan Henley, DJ Foran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Brian O Halloran and Colin Dunford should be considered for starts ahead of those involved last Sunday. Any of them who were on the lash Sunday or Monday in Nicky's though I wouldnt start and go down to the under 20 squad if required

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

TheScoringGoal

hardybuck wrote: »

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

What you say is correct but would you have any confidence in the established players bothering this weekend? Playing them could be even worse. I felt sorry for the full back line last weekend looking up to play passes and realistically only Miley Kearney wanted the ball.

Cornerstoner

Were going to get beaten either way. At least send out a team who want to be there and put the jersey on with pride. They have trained all year and deserve a chance

hardybuck

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

What you say is correct but would you have any confidence in the established players bothering this weekend? Playing them could be even worse. I felt sorry for the full back line last weekend looking up to play passes and realistically only Miley Kearney wanted the ball.

I definitely get the temptation to drop a significant number of them but I think it would be counterproductive.

It should be made clear to the players that if they don't at the very least die with their boots on in Cork, there will be a significant overhaul of players next season - probably conducted by a new management team.

At least then if they disgrace the jersey like that again they can't whinge next year when they're not involved.

KevIRL

hardybuck wrote: »

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

I know what you are saying, but everyone of the above have played a number of times for the county

blueflame

Agree with both sentiments, understanding the logic behind each one. Personally i would mix and match, given some lads a chance to redeem themselves whilst giving the likes of Colm Roche, Shane McNulty, Darragh Lyons etc.., a chance to show how much it means to them to play for their county. The attacks have been many and scathing and for the most point justified, if this team cannot react to this, then they need to be dismantled.

The big fear I have, and i could be a million miles wrong, is that certain elements of the team are doing this to deliberately engineer the return of the previous management, and if we do give into this blackmail and go down that road, where does it stop?

A lot of people, players and managers, give out about supporters voicing opinions. As long as it is not voiced in a personal or aggressive manner I believe supporters being given their chance to voice opinion is a very important part of sport. After all they are the ones offering financial support through attendances, club subscriptions, fund raising and financial events. Many of those supporters have worked with and provided the players that are on the current panel through their clubs over the years and are very knowledgeable, loyal and passionate - and most of all they know when they are being conned, and they deserve to be heard.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

KevIRL wrote: »

Personally would only start Lyons, Prunty and Jack Prendergast from Sunday. All of the fringe and squad players such as Daragh Lyons, Billy Nolan, Colm Roche, Stephen Roche, Kieran Bennett, Mark O Brien, Jordan Henley, DJ Foran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Brian O Halloran and Colin Dunford should be considered for starts ahead of those involved last Sunday. Any of them who were on the lash Sunday or Monday in Nicky's though I wouldnt start and go down to the under 20 squad if required

Ah no, they were on it Monday too? Well in that case, I'd fully agree with you.
It's a hard one to call as others have said. Give lads a chance or get slaughtered on live TV. A mix is probably best and take out some of the main culprits based on form as well as the discipline factor. I wouldn't mind going to support the team knowing lads were getting a chance but the thoughts of making the effort to go down and see lads who were on the sauce is not appealing.

Deisegodeo

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

nlrkjos

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

A lot of Cork folk, including Dónal Óg Cusack, seem to have forgotten https://m.independent.ie/sport/hurling/galway-glide-past-woeful-rebels-26041236.html

!7 years ago ! not forgotten, but we at least moved on from there, played 5 finals and won two, lost one agin Clare that we should have won. Your lads dumped a couple of managers and still haven't won All Ireland, and looks like they are dumping another! so while I see your point about Cork troubles....we bounced back, maybe justifying those troubles, will the Waterford hurlers do the same...in a way I hope they do, but obviously not at our expense:D

Cornerstoner

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

Confirmed with my own eyes on Sunday

munsterlegend

What is a bit unfair on Waterford is having to play 6 days after. Only county affected like this?

JeffKenna

munsterlegend wrote: »

What is a bit unfair on Waterford is having to play 6 days after. Only county affected like this?

True...sure they'll need 2 days at least to get over the hangover!

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

Confirmed with my own eyes on Sunday

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

carq

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

Am i reading this right - 2 nights on the beer ?

hardybuck

munsterlegend wrote: »

What is a bit unfair on Waterford is having to play 6 days after. Only county affected like this?

Especially seeing Cork had a break at the weekend.

munsterlegend

hardybuck wrote: »

Especially seeing Cork had a break at the weekend.

Yeah that makes it even more unfair. Did county board even object? Can’t imagine cork agreeing to that if roles reversed.

Cornerstoner

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

Were talking double digits

Deise Vu

Jesus lads, so far we have had the County Board to blame, the management, individual players, the team as a whole, fitness, attitude, discipline, skill, commitment and facilities. We might as well blame the fixture list too. Maybe the lads were saving themselves for a barnstomer next Saturday?

I have witnessed the '82 and '83 debacles and I can honestly say I have never been more dispirited leaving a match as last Sunday. At least in the 80's we had come from nowhere to contest Munster finals when that meant something. The current setup, and everyone on the squad, the management and county board, has to shoulder some blame, have taken us from contesting an All-Ireland final to opening the debate as to why no Munster team should be relegated. They all need to take a good long look in the mirror and decide if they want to be part of the county setup or be replaced by someone who does.

Will we even see the county championship being played off over the Summer months now? Or will it be one or two games a month and the county final played a week before the Munster Championship because the players all take off to Boston and New York again. The horrible fact is that, yet again this year when the ground and weather are best suited to Hurling, we will have hardly any when every serious hurling county in the country is going at it hammer and tongs. They will be getting better while we circle the drain.