Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

omri wrote: »

Didn’t want to start a new post so decided to drop it in here. Went to Kerry for this long weekend with the family and there was some charity ride between Killarney and Tralee. Not sure who organized it or what it was called, but it did have some marshals here and there. However the group we got stuck behind along with many more cars was quite split and all over the place. Folks were going 2 sometimes 3 abreast taking the entire lane making safe overtaking not so safe from drivers perspective especially when the group was so fragmented. Everything was lead by a van who was drafting some of the riders. Sadly we read someone got killed that morning (not sure if this was someone who was participating in this exact event). It was pretty windy and not an easy cycle so fair play to everyone taking part but I feel on this particular stretch of road people were somewhat oblivious to all other traffic that was on the road. Hopefully someone who was involved in the event reads that and improve things for next time.

So you are posting in a thread about near misses where cyclists have had a near miss due to idiotic motorists, and you admit that you are one of those motorists that caused a near miss. Hmm. I can now see why you caused a near miss.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I do my best to stay safe but it's largely out of my control.
Today I had someone come up behind me when I was cycling legally. They needed for me to get out of their way just because. When they didn't get their way they passed me dangerously and then spat at me.
So you'll forgive me for reading your posts about honking your horn at cyclists and thinking that you're a dick.
For reference, I also drive. I alwaus give time and space to vulnerable road users.
I do understand that the number of selfish drivers has massively increased over the last decade ir two and this has made it more difficult for all road users. What we don't need is someone coming along then and telling us that despite them acting the dick on the road, they too understand where I'm coming from.
By the way, you're the one who admitted to driving dangerously towards vulnerable road users and then accuse us of writing stupid things. Please read back over your posts.

Why was I driving dangerously? I did all I could on my part, warned, adjusted the speed and overtook on the other lane. The cyclists on the road should adjust their line. I never spit on a cyclists I overtook not I whiz by at high speed and take them by surprise.

What I’m reading is a lot of grief from what I assume seasoned cyclists (given this is cycling boards ie) - trying to prove what? So far I read stories of vulnerable cyclists being bullied by drivers yet you try to point out something to cyclists and it somehow is not taken seriously.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You could have just waited for a safe place to pass, like you would with any other overtake. You're going to have to cross the white line to pass one cyclist, so it really doesn't matter whether they are two or three abreast - you're still going to have to cross the line.

I waited, I posted it here just to point out the situation instead of starting a new topic that is all. I overtook safe but couldve been done even safer if cyclists did their part.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why did you beep the cyclists?

Was explained earlier.

omri wrote: »

I should have said that while giving them a little beep before overtaking only one pair moved to the left. In all other instances they didn’t even budge with people cycling beside the middle of the road. Didn’t feel safe for me to overtake due to the fact there was no spare room to manouver if something happened.

Look it can go back and forth all night and you can keep threatening to leave, but fact of the matter is that the overtaker has the responsibility of the overtake, and those being overtaken do not (and should not) have to facilitate it.

-only one pair moved to the left
-didn’t feel safe to overtake...no spare room...if something happened.
-roads are for cars, like it or not

I’m sorry but your attitude needs to change. Fair enough, you did wait. But maybe you could understand that the reason cyclists are disagreeing with you here isn’t down to us being a big homogeneous group (even if we’re often treated this way), but rather because you’re so sure you’re right, that’s it’s difficult to understand that in fact the roads should be shared and you have no more right to the road than any other group.

As an example, should all the cars move out of my way along the canal at rush hour because I travel faster?

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'll put this in allcaps because you don't seem to have read your own comments.

YOU PERFORMED OVERTAKING MANOUEVRES YOU YOURSELF SAID 'DIDN'T FEEL SAFE FOR ME'.

either you've done a spectacularly bad and unflattering job of explaining the situation, or you did what you say you did and performed unsafe overtakes.


i feel sorry for the cyclists. they were on an organised charity cycle, clearly marked as such, and probably thought they could relax a little; maybe they thought 'motorists will give us a little leeway now, it's for charity so they'll be decent about it'; but instead have to deal with a motorist with a telepathic car horn which can beam into their brains 'this is a *friendly* beep for your own good' rather than an 'i'm a car, get out of my way' beep. which is how 99% of cyclists will interpret it (with good reason).

and it shouldn't need repeating, but at no point have you suggested the cyclists actually left their own lane, which means the oncoming lane was clear; which is a fundamental requirement of performing a safe overtake.

Cyclists were going 3 abreast taking entire lane at one point. Now my point is that in case where the other group of two moved to the left it gave ample of space. And regardless that I did overtake on the opposite lane.

Now you can try to shrug off the responsibility from the cyclists to the que of the cars behind them. But truth be told even tractors give way after a while around these roads that I experienced this last few days.

They simply carried on, while the cars before and after me had to overtake them with as much room as they decided to leave for that manouver.

We can argue all night but since its a road with 100kmh speed limit I dont think any car is expected to trail the cyclists for x miles until they form a single file.

And yes I prefer to give a little beep so they can prepare in whatever way rather than be passed at high speed by a lorry which oddly enough seen happen today.

Instead you read the post and figured out its another driver bitching about us cyclist, and this cant be. Which is sad really but feel free to have your opinion. My feeling was that it’s a shame they went about it that way and I felt they increased the risks in doing so. Take it what you want from it. Maybe someone involved in it will read this and takes it into account.

I know how I cycle and I also know how I’m driving and conducting myself towards cyclists especially. That is enough for me. Thanks for listening anyway.

After reading your comment I’m not surprised why drviers might have issues with cyclists or if not even that just bad opinion about them. You’re certainly have an approach of the road is mine because I am a cyclist but stand no chance even with a smallest car that’s out there. Furthermore all you decided to take out of my post is this warrior cyclist rhetoric that neither was my point, intention to bring out in people who were to read it.

If I feel like its needed I will always give a little beep, as did in the past on many roads and in many countries. It’s there for a reason. You decide to read it the way you did and so be it. It’s disappointing and I’m going to leave it at that - as Ive nothing else to add to this really.

I also do not appreciate some sort of wording used in the discussion pointing to me for whatever reason. You don’t know me and there’s no reason using it in this context.

So I bullied them because I gave a little beep, and that makes me a prick of whatever else was said earlier?

I would suggests mods look into that.

How should they react - I would imagine the same way the two other guys did, moving to the side and leaving plenty of room for everyone. Nobody felt bullied imo, nobody was pushed off into the ditch. I went on the opposite lane there was plenty of room between my car and their bodies. Happy days.

Am I pretending to be a cyclist maybe, who knows. Do you know that for sure? I feel like you do. Did you know I was bringing kids to and from school on a cargo for over 2yrs? Did I call you whatever you called me?

At the end of the day you just have a helmet on your head and car will pretty much kill you regardless of the speed. So be humble, have some respect. I’m a driver and I’m a cyclist. Seen plenty of bad and good drivers. Seen the same of cyclists. Shared my experience today, thought it was bad enough to mention it.

And honestly what you do with it is up to you. Just don’t offend me because I talked about it.

And PS is this vulnerable road user smth taken out if Trumps propaganda like “fake news” etc. My kids and wife in the car were put in danger by irresponsible cyclists - how does this sound to you?

Please mods do intervene because this is turning personal and whatever you might think of my or others views it should stay this way rather than turning into this personalized abuse.

Instead of dismissing what I'm saying as "warrior cyclist rhetoric" maybe you could be constructive and actually drill down into the points I've made ?

- is it warrior cyclist rhetoric to point out that a speed limit doesn't represent a speed that must be reached? To me that's just a reasonable statement of fact.

- is it warrior cyclist rhetoric to argue that that a duty of care and safety to other road users must trump the need of convenience every single time and if all road users would accept and abide by this principal the roads would be safer for all?

Next time I'm driving into town and I encounter a tailback of traffic shouldnt those cars try to move in out of my way so I can pass? I mean, on a 50kph road I can't be expected to sit behind them other cars at 2kph right?

Omri, like many other you appear to have a somewhat distorted view of what "sharing the road" means. It means different road users using the road at the same time- no more than that. It doesn't say anything about road users have to make way for other road users to get to where they're going quicker.

omri wrote: »

I don’t blah blah blah

So why would you expect other people to move over for you? Are your journeys more important than anyone else's?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So why would you expect other people to move over for you? Are your journeys more important than anyone else's?

So you say that the entire fleet of cars was to trail that charity cycle for miles on end? Is that what you mean?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you somehow responsible for the 'entire fleet'? I thought you were responsible for your own car and your own driving.

So again, why would you expect others to show you the courtesy that you fail to show them?

I’m obviously not going to fall for this If farmers have some etiquette to make way for a build up of traffic so does the rest of the road users. As do cars do for say an ambulance.

Now what youre saying I should not be allowed to overtake cyclists while my point is they were able to make more room ahould they choose to. Just so it happened I was the first car in this batch of cars coming onto the back of them. Make no mistake there were manu more ahead of me as there must have been many more after.

So maybe you should define what should be in you opinion ideal conditions for overtaking. Since I was on the opposite lane and had ditch/hedge to my right and some of the cyclists decided to occupy entire lane regardless. Some decided to move to left while still cycling two abreast - which in my view is the correct course of action. Yet you seem to disagree. In your opinion we were to follow them until they finished their ride should they not choose to bunch up a bit.