Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

AMKC · 14-05-2019 4:40pm

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

He did win in the dominant car, his teammate at the time just wasn’t good enough to help secure the constructors championship

His teammate had just won two WDC titles and is considered one of the best F1 drivers. I think if Alonso had of done his research on Lewis had the time and had known how fast Lewis was he might have been harder on him but maybe he thought A sure he is a rookie so I will go easy on him.

astrofluff wrote: »

Re 2008, what's a point among friends these days? Well, it would have been Massa's only for Timo.

That's a bit hard on Timo. There was lots of other things that happened that year that if they had not happened might have meant Massa would have been WDC champion. Singapore for instance is the one that sticks in the memory.

Anjobe wrote: »

I read an article, may have been by Brundle, in which he claimed a Ferrari insider had told him they were convinced they had the championship winning car that year and were so disappointed in Massa its why they subsequently treated him as Alonso's water carrier.

It should have been Massa's year do. He came so very close. If Singapore had not of happened the way it did for Massa in the pits and maybe some other events it probably would have been Massa's year.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 14-05-2019 4:46pm

AMKC wrote: »

His teammate had just won two WDC titles and is considered one of the best F1 drivers. I think if Alonso had of done his research on Lewis had the time and had known how fast Lewis was he might have been harder on him but maybe he thought A sure he is a rookie so I will go easy on him.

That's a bit hard on Timo. There was lots of other things that happened that year that if they had not happened might have meant Massa would have been WDC champion. Singapore for instance is the one that sticks in the memory.

It should have been Massa's year do. He came so very close. If Singapore had not of happened the way it did for Massa in the pits and maybe some other events it probably would have been Massa's year.

In 2008 his teammate was Heikki Kovalainen, they were thrown out of the constructors championship in 2007.

NoBread · 14-05-2019 4:47pm

AMKC wrote: »

His teammate had just won two WDC titles and is considered one of the best F1 drivers. I think if Alonso had of done his research on Lewis had the time and had known how fast Lewis was he might have been harder on him but maybe he thought A sure he is a rookie so I will go easy on him.

That's a bit hard on Timo. There was lots of other things that happened that year that if they had not happened might have meant Massa would have been WDC champion. Singapore for instance is the one that sticks in the memory.

It should have been Massa's year do. He came so very close. If Singapore had not of happened the way it did for Massa in the pits and maybe some other events it probably would have been Massa's year.

Yep, Ferrari pit crew leaving the fuel rig ruined his race and many points.

Adamocovic · 14-05-2019 4:48pm

Nic_Col wrote: »

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096/11719448/martin-brundle-on-spanish-gp-frustrations-and-f1-future-visions

Good article by Brundle on Sky Sports website.

On the teenagers stepping in and quickly getting accustomed to the cards I have a theory. It could be nonsense of course.

I wonder is the reason so many young drivers are stepping in and driving so well to do with the technology in preparation now. Most drivers have the simulators setup in their homes to practice as much as they want racing on any specific track, learning their routine and perfecting it. Of course sittng into the actual real deal is different and will test their bottle but the amount of homework they're able to do is incredible.

I agree with somethings Brundle says, although not a fan. Like all I want it to be more competitive, and the effect the technology and constructors are having in regards to this. That's a given. But have no issues with teenagers performing in the cars and don't fully agree with his idea arguing about the protection of the drivers.

Saying they should be gladiators and teenagers shouldn't be able to jump in and be able to handle the car. I know he says the drivers need protection but found it odd all his comments so odd. Was on about stripping away aspects so we can get a proper look at the drivers. I'm confused regarding what he's suggesting.

He loves to hammer on about "gladiators" in the car, think he was thinly having a go at the likes of the Halo again, he previously said he didn't like it as you can't see the driver aswell, but after the Leclerc incident said maybe he has to change his mind.

Anyway, I agree with some. Main thing we need is to make it more competitive. I couldn't give a toss how much of the driver I can see if all the results become too predictable.

Inviere · 14-05-2019 4:50pm

NoBread wrote: »

Yep, Ferrari pit crew leaving the fuel rig ruined his race and many points.

My memory of Brazil 2008 is fuzzy at best, but didn't Lewis' has serious gearbox issues at some point in the race, that cost him places and potential points too. It all usually balances out over a season

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 14-05-2019 4:54pm

Inviere wrote: »

My memory of Brazil 2008 is fuzzy at best, but didn't Lewis' has serious gearbox issues at some point in the race, that cost him places and potential points too. It all usually balances out over a season

Wasn't that the 2007 race?

skipper_G · 14-05-2019 4:59pm

Anjobe wrote: »

Zandvoort doesn't really look up to modern Formula 1 so will be interesting to see how it goes. Atmosphere should be good with all the Max fans, F1's very own Dutch Corner.

Could be 23 races next year (including Vietnam) unless any of the ones now in the last year of their contracts (Britain, Germany, Italy and Mexico) are dropped.

In the future perhaps, but not next year. We're getting the two new ones as swaps for Spain & Germany which both look dead. Silverstone & Italy have deals agreed in principle, Mexico has been a huge success crowd wise, new deal is likely for that as well.

NoBread · 14-05-2019 5:04pm

Anjobe wrote: »

Ho hum, Hamilton is no where near Alsonso's level - a driver he actually beat in the same car in his rookie year? How many drivers would have been beaten by Nico Rosberg, well Schumacher was in 3 consecutive seasons. Ask yourself how many drivers on the current grid could have produced the pole lap that Hamilton did at Singapore last year?

Max arguably produced a quicker lap - the Red Bull was over half a second slower than the Merc on the straight alone, yet he qualified only 3 tenths off.
Bottas on Sunday had a great quali lap too, if it had been Ham with that time we'd still be hearing about it.

Anjobe wrote: »

Mercedes' car has been phenomenal, but wasn't completely dominant last year or the year before, the Ferrari was nearly as good, better at some circuits. That Hamilton won those championships pretty easily would seem to indicate that he is the clearly the best driver of the 4 who were at those 2 teams at least.

Hamilton has been at the peak of his career for the last couple of years. He has the favoured support from the management - they are always visibly more happy when he gets pole/wins than the team mate, even in 1-2 situations.
It's about time though, he threw his own team under the bus many times in the past publicly. He was very hit and miss for a lot of his career, unlike the all time greats. He's quick no doubt, but the ducks couldn't get any more lined up for a guy this past 5 years.

Anjobe wrote: »

Vettel drove the wheels off the Ferrari in the last couple of years? Dream on, he blew any chance he had in a competitive car through a series of below par performances, errors under pressure and costly red mist incidents.

Its harder for a driver to beat their team mate when the team is dominant, as other drivers can't take points off them. Rosberg was actually a very good driver, but it still took a combination of errors and extreme bad luck for Hamilton (plus the culmination of a 3 year plan to needle and undermine him in the team) to beat him. Rosberg retired then because he knew he was never going to repeat the feat.

You can dislike Hamilton if you want, that's just opinion (but please be honest about the reasons), but dismissing his driving ability on arguments that could be applied to any winning driver ever is nonsense.

Rosberg trying to undermine Hamilton? That petulant little brat Ham has fallen out with each and every team mate he has ever had, including Button, who no one falls out with. He resorts to snide comments in the media and social media constantly. He couldn't stop complaining about Rosberg's championship win like a sore loser, highlighting all the issues he had, yet ignoring the championships he won on the back of others misfortune.
He never really destroyed a teammate, (3 year average points difference between him and Button, and also only relatively narrow championship victories over Rosberg) and if he was as good as he thinks, he would have done.

Anjobe · 14-05-2019 5:45pm

NoBread wrote: »

Max arguably produced a quicker lap - the Red Bull was over half a second slower than the Merc on the straight alone, yet he qualified only 3 tenths off.
Bottas on Sunday had a great quali lap too, if it had been Ham with that time we'd still be hearing about it.

Hamilton has been at the peak of his career for the last couple of years. He has the favoured support from the management - they are always visibly more happy when he gets pole/wins than the team mate, even in 1-2 situations.
It's about time though, he threw his own team under the bus many times in the past publicly. He was very hit and miss for a lot of his career, unlike the all time greats. He's quick no doubt, but the ducks couldn't get any more lined up for a guy this past 5 years.

Rosberg trying to undermine Hamilton? That petulant little brat Ham has fallen out with each and every team mate he has ever had, including Button, who no one falls out with. He resorts to snide comments in the media and social media constantly. He couldn't stop complaining about Rosberg's championship win like a sore loser, highlighting all the issues he had, yet ignoring the championships he won on the back of others misfortune.
He never really destroyed a teammate, (3 year average points difference between him and Button, and also only relatively narrow championship victories over Rosberg) and if he was as good as he thinks, he would have done.

It’s easy to cherry pick things to back up your own argument. So Hamilton is arrogant and petulant, has won because he had the best car or because others had misfortune? How is that different to any other top driver? Why single Hamilton out for these things?

youreadthat · 14-05-2019 6:10pm

Lol at this anti Hamilton jibber jabber. You could copy and paste half the stuff from comments made in 2008. Some were even sticking it in before he joined F1. So boring, let the hate go, you’ll be happier for it. If it makes you feel better since no one ever drives the same car in the same circumstances you’ll never know whether he’s the worst ever or best ever. Chill out, cheeky chappy Button 4 the win etc.

Frank Bullitt · 14-05-2019 6:27pm

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096/11719448/martin-brundle-on-spanish-gp-frustrations-and-f1-future-visions

Here is Martin Brundle, with a big hammer, hitting a very big nail right on the head.

Read this.

skipper_G · 14-05-2019 6:32pm

Instead of complaining about F1 or Hamilton bashing, why not have a look at this and have a laugh at Rich Energy instead https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-rich-energy-copyright-infringement-case/4388420/

Absolute Spoofers!

Nic_Col · 14-05-2019 6:35pm

What ifs are pointless, as long as I've been watching F1 there has been at least 16 races per season and it's far too simplistic to pick and choose isolated incidents to suit an agenda. There will never be a truly fair and square season where every driver has no issue in any race (how boring would that be by the way...)

Any driver that has won a title has deserved it, and that includes the "good but not great" drivers who have "lucked out" by ending up in a dominant car. Those drivers don't end up at those teams by accident. Having the best car is often used as a stick to beat a driver with in terms of his achievements but that's nonsense, almost all WDC's are won by a driver in the best car. Look at Senna, as soon as it became apparent that the power had shifted from McLaren to Williams he immediately set about trying to join Williams.

Senna's three WDC's were won in the best car. To try and devalue his titles on that basis would just be stupid. And likewise for Hamilton. And Vettel for that matter.

mickdw · 14-05-2019 9:45pm

So has the unravelling of rich energy begun?
They have lost court case re copyright of their logo.
Someone here previously said, they would be lucky to make Barcelona as title sponsor. Might not be too far away yet.

BikeRacer · 14-05-2019 10:15pm

skipper_G wrote: »

Instead of complaining about F1 or Hamilton bashing, why not have a look at this and have a laugh at Rich Energy instead https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-rich-energy-copyright-infringement-case/4388420/

Absolute Spoofers!

Whyte bikes home page aren't half rubbing it in

https://whyte.bike/

Glico Man · 14-05-2019 11:36pm

skipper_G wrote: »

Instead of complaining about F1 or Hamilton bashing, why not have a look at this and have a laugh at Rich Energy instead https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-rich-energy-copyright-infringement-case/4388420/

Absolute Spoofers!

I'd like to clutch the smallest sliver of straw possible to say I helped with this by tweeting to Whyte Bikes in October last year to say that Rich Energy did a good job copying their logo :pac:

mickdw · 14-05-2019 11:43pm

Glico Man wrote: »

skipper_G wrote: »

Instead of complaining about F1 or Hamilton bashing, why not have a look at this and have a laugh at Rich Energy instead https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-rich-energy-copyright-infringement-case/4388420/

Absolute Spoofers!

I'd like to clutch the smallest sliver of straw possible to say I helped with this by tweeting to Whyte Bikes in October last year to say that Rich Energy did a good job copying their logo :pac:

Seriously!
Good work.

mickdw · 14-05-2019 11:46pm

Rich Energy.
They don't appear to have a product but are building a brand regardless. To get as far as they have on nothing more than bluff and to then mess up the branding due to copying the logo is really laughable.

LollipopJimmy · 14-05-2019 11:48pm

BikeRacer wrote: »

Whyte bikes home page aren't half rubbing it in

https://whyte.bike/

Feckin cyclists

mickdw · 15-05-2019 12:30am

I've lost track of the time frame of all this but if I remember right, we were all aware of the logo issue prior to them signing up with Haas. If I'm right there, questions need to be asked of Haas also as any legal challenge was only going to have one result .... as we have seen today.
I see they presented a 50k invoice for logo design to the court. Said this had been paid but did not produce any bank records to verify. Also invoice had vat number but no vat charged the judge noted.
Designer who issued invoice couldn't explain vat issue.
The whole thing is a house of cards.

Charlie-Bravo · 15-05-2019 9:14am

Jaysus, that rich energy lad is some spoofer. And not even a good one if they're missing tricks like that with invoices. All credibility, whatever he might of had, just got shot down by the judge. Classic reading.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-05-2019 10:13am

astrofluff wrote: »

Jaysus, that rich energy lad is some spoofer. And not even a good one if they're missing tricks like that with invoices. All credibility, whatever he might of had, just got shot down by the judge. Classic reading.

He spoofed his way to F1 before he sold a single drink. Invented a brand out of nothing. We'll see what happens next.

Lads like that tend to be able to live the life of Riley and all the time have a string of failed businesses and everyone except him goes unpaid.

He seem like a complete conman.

AMKC · 15-05-2019 10:40am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He spoofed his way to F1 before he sold a single drink. Invented a brand out of nothing. We'll see what happens next.

Lads like that tend to be able to live the life of Riley and all the time have a string of failed businesses and everyone except him goes unpaid.

He seem like a complete conman.

HE sounds very like that other spoofer from America that is now supposed to be the leader of the free world who lies and contradicts everything he says and will probably start a war with Iran sometime in the next 6 months to a year even do he said he wanted America out of international affairs and wars.

Adamocovic · 15-05-2019 12:35pm

With the recent announcement of Zandvoort coming back some drivers have commented on it. Here's Ricciardo's take.

Ricciardo:
"Full honesty here, the track to drive on is pretty awesome," said the Renault driver. "It's high speed, it's old school, big balls. From a driving point of view, it's fine.

"But how fast it is and how narrow some places are, I don't think it would be that exciting for overtaking - just my initial feeling.

"With the speeds we go now, following another car will be very difficult. That's my reservation with it. I think it'll be a very processional race, otherwise, the track's cool.

"I'm a bit torn. To drive on it'd be fun but to race - with the width of the cars now it's probably a bit like a street circuit through some places.

"It'll be tricky to make a really exciting race.

"I only drove a demonstration [in an F1 car], but I raced there in F3, and it keeps your eyes open. Big balls."

Not just him Hulkenberg made comments and added:
"But even in F3 [overtaking] was almost an impossible task. The track layout was not the most inviting for overtaking and racing, unfortunately."

Bottas only focused on the track punishing mistakes, no mention of overtaking.

All in all what many feared I suppose. I difficult track that will be fun for the drivers to go around but overtaking seems another issue. With the cars getting wider and the advancement of technology nearly all circuits have this title of overtaking being difficult. Should the focus not only be on the cars in terms of fixing it but also circuit adjustments to optimise chances on track?

eviltimeban · 15-05-2019 12:45pm

You can Google Street view the whole Zandvoort track, see here: https://goo.gl/maps/EihUGA44dPn5MXu26

pjohnson · 15-05-2019 12:59pm

Red Bull Youtube have a lap onboard with Max

Cool_CM · 15-05-2019 1:05pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Red Bull Youtube have a lap onboard with Max

Saw that, looks pretty tight, as is!

Joeface · 15-05-2019 1:37pm

Pretty sure Sky during the race at the weekend said one of the other series had pulled out of that track cause the cars were too fast for it and it limits racing .

Nic_Col · 15-05-2019 1:45pm

Joeface wrote: »

Pretty sure Sky during the race at the weekend said one of the other series had pulled out of that track cause the cars were too fast for it and it limits racing .

Wouldn't be surprised. First turn is the most likely overtaking opportunity but it's very tight and is the straight even long enough to gain any meaningful DRS benefit?

Looks a bit dated too. Investment required. Hopefully all the grass and gravel isn't replaced with tarmacked run offs and silly stripy paint. The only positive I can see is maybe this track might actually punish drivers who go off track.

mickdw · 15-05-2019 6:23pm

The whole rich energy / Haas branding issue reminds me of the eddie Jordan Porsche dispute where Porsche got annoyed with eddies first f1 car, the Jordan 911.
For anyone who has not heard this, Jordan went to meet Porsche and after telling them that he would drop the name but it would cost his business significant funds to do so with team merchandise, advertising etc all to be revised.
Eddie hammered out a deal with Porsche while spending about 25 quid getting a couple of new posters printed up to replace the little branding material they had.
Soon after, a new Porsche was delivered to the Jordan factory for eddies personal use.

Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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