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VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

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    #542
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    I feel like we are just about at the brink of general population realising that a BEV can do what their current car can do but more comfortably and more conveniently and with really low running costs. Then when you get your head around it you realise that 300 kilometer range does just fine if the alternative is to spend another 5k for extra 150 km that you might only need a few times a year.

    What the long trip on L40 made me realise in the summer was that actually your quality of life will probably be better if you stopped for a cuppa/10 quid charge instead of pushing on to your distant destination without a break. Or maybe I'm just getting old.


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    #543
    Sabre Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭Sabre Man


    RamboJambo wrote: »
    Can anyone shed light on BEV's with under the car mounted batteries and potholes?

    I'm in the countryside and the likelihood of hitting a pothole is much higher than on the streets of Wolfsburg. Surely the likelihood of hitting the battery is quite high? It would be nice to hear some feedback from engineer/mechanics/owners who might have seen anything on this.

    Teslas have protective shields underneath for this reason. Not sure about other brands.


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    #544
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,561 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I think the likes of the Kona/eNiro when they get a bit cheaper, the neo, and possibly the leaf60 are the first cars that someone "normal" ie non-EV fanboy would consider buying.

    I know when I tell people about 350-400km range they don't give me the same look of equal parts derision and feigned sympathy that I get/got for the leaf 90-100km or ioniq 180-220km.


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    #545
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,561 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Sabre Man wrote: »
    Teslas have protective shields underneath for this reason. Not sure about other brands.
    Look at the Kona EV or eniro underside, the 64kWh variant.
    Be prepared !


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    #546
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    samih wrote: »
    I feel like we are just about at the brink of general population realising that a BEV can do what their current car can do but more comfortably and more conveniently and with really low running costs. Then when you get your head around it you realise that 300 kilometer range does just fine if the alternative is to spend another 5k for extra 150 km that you might only need a few times a year.

    What the long trip on L40 made me realise in the summer was that actually your quality of life will probably be better if you stopped for a cuppa/10 quid charge instead of pushing on to your distant destination without a break. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

    Getting old i would say :)

    Know one young needs to stop Limerick - Dublin

    Pity no efficiency improvements on the Leaf62 at motorway speeds

    It still can't do Cork - Dublin without a charge @ 120, even Limerick - Dublin @ 120 will be pretty low battery

    Kona has no problem with either journey @ 120


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    #547
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,561 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Getting old i would say :)

    Know one young needs to stop Limerick - Dublin

    Pity no efficiency improvements on the Leaf62 at motorway speeds

    It still can't do Cork - Dublin without a charge @ 120, even Limerick - Dublin @ 120 will be pretty low battery

    Kona has no problem with either journey @ 120


    +1

    If you can't drive Dublin to Cork (and charge in cork) at real world speeds then it's not really an improvement on the current model which, like the Ioniq, can do it in one charge.


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    #548
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The problem is the market in most countries are full of sheep.

    Is it a problem or an opportunity?


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    #549
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,989 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    samih wrote: »
    I feel like we are just about at the brink of general population realising that a BEV can do what their current car can do but more comfortably and more conveniently and with really low running costs.

    I got the feeling in the second half of last year that had happened. A huge change in general perception of EVs compared to this time last year. Everyone I talk to knows we all will be driving EVs soon enough.

    Unfortunately the take up will be slow and delayed as supply of EVs is just too small until at least some time next year...


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    #550
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I will not be able to purchase an EV until I can do the Wild Atlantic Way and return during a winter storm without stopping.


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    #551
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,561 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    liamog wrote: »
    I will not be able to purchase an EV until I can do the Wild Atlantic Way and return during a winter storm without stopping.
    I will not purchase one until they are self charging.


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    #552
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I will not purchase one until they are self charging.

    Toyota do that today... Don't they? :P


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    #553
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,989 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I will not purchase one until they are self charging.

    BMW had a wireless charging system for sale even going back two years, didn't they? Surely that's what we're all be doing in about 10 years time. Park the car somewhere in the vicinity of the charger and the car will do the rest. Pretty much self charging and no need to leave the old skool petrol engine running, like with Toyotas :D


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    #554
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    unkel wrote: »
    BMW had a wireless charging system for sale even going back two years, didn't they? Surely that's what we're all be doing in about 10 years time. Park the car somewhere in the vicinity of the charger and the car will do the rest. Pretty much self charging and no need to leave the old skool petrol engine running, like with Toyotas :D

    Yeah, it was a plate that had to be fitted where you park. The car had to be driven over it.

    IIRC there was some issue about having to have the car fairly precisely located over the plate for it to work. FFS BMW drivers can barely get it between the lines in a car park. :D


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    #555
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,989 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    That's it. In my vision, the car will park itself very precisely over the induction plate, so the transfer losses will be minimal. Still probably a good 20-30% though. All available with todays technologies in todays cars (like summon or self parking that plenty of cars have already)


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    #556
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    samih wrote: »
    I feel like we are just about at the brink of general population realising that a BEV can do what their current car can do but more comfortably and more conveniently and with really low running costs. Then when you get your head around it you realise that 300 kilometer range does just fine if the alternative is to spend another 5k for extra 150 km that you might only need a few times a year.

    What the long trip on L40 made me realise in the summer was that actually your quality of life will probably be better if you stopped for a cuppa/10 quid charge instead of pushing on to your distant destination without a break. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

    exactly this - when I was researching prior to buying my car and was in full nerd mode I looked at the option of spending more to charge less and calculated the total amount of times I would in any given year need to fast charge. I then factored in the additional cost of getting a bigger battery car to reduce fast charge requirements etc

    For example
    New Ioniq = 28k
    New Kona = €40k
    Price difference 12K or say €3k per year of ownership.

    average fast charge per week in ioniq = 3 * 30 minutes
    average fast charge per week in Kona = 1 * 30 minutes

    Total time saved = (3-1) X 0.5hours X 50 weeks = 50 hours per year

    Extra cost of reduced charge frequency/time = €3000 per year

    Which worked out at an aprox cost of €60 per hour of charging avoided...

    I value myself, but not that much.... + I like to take a break on longer trips...


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    #557
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,324 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    irishgrover wrote: »
    exactly this - when I was researching prior to buying my car and was in full nerd mode I looked at the option of spending more to charge less and calculated the total amount of times I would in any given year need to fast charge. I then factored in the additional cost of getting a bigger battery car to reduce fast charge requirements etc

    For example
    New Ioniq = 28k
    New Kona = €40k
    Price difference 12K or say €3k per year of ownership.

    average fast charge per week in ioniq = 3 * 30 minutes
    average fast charge per week in Kona = 1 * 30 minutes

    Total time saved = (3-1) X 0.5hours X 50 weeks = 50 hours per year

    Extra cost of reduced charge frequency/time = €3000 per year

    Which worked out at an aprox cost of €60 per hour of charging avoided...

    I value myself, but not that much.... + I like to take a break on longer trips...

    A larger battery will have better resale


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    #558
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    ted1 wrote: »
    A larger battery will have better resale




    Will it? nobody really know.


    The L24 is holding its price just as good as the L30. The eGolf is hlding its price. The Ioniq is holding its price.

    Will the price fall off a cliff with the new model? probably not because the depreciation will just catch up to where it should be. At the moment the depreciation is lower than expected.



    Lets say you buy a VW 40kWh and then a VW 60kWh. I bet on both cars the dealer will quote the same depreciations, 4k per year. In fact when I went for the higher end cars, A6 etc, I was always told the depreciations was higher.



    In the future the lower battery car will probably have a bigger market as people will have to swap to electric and the people with a lower budget will be scrambling for the "cheaper" cars.


  • Options
    #559
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,090 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Will it? nobody really know.


    The L24 is holding its price just as good as the L30. The eGolf is hlding its price. The Ioniq is holding its price.

    Will the price fall off a cliff with the new model? probably not because the depreciation will just catch up to where it should be. At the moment the depreciation is lower than expected.



    Lets say you buy a VW 40kWh and then a VW 60kWh. I bet on both cars the dealer will quote the same depreciations, 4k per year. In fact when I went for the higher end cars, A6 etc, I was always told the depreciations was higher.



    In the future the lower battery car will probably have a bigger market as people will have to swap to electric and the people with a lower budget will be scrambling for the "cheaper" cars.

    Well well! You've changed your tune! What happened to the multiple posts of "they will plummet like a stone when the bigger batteries come out"! :)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105429316&postcount=28


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    #560
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    The arrival of new EVs will have to cause an impact on resale of an older less capable one.

    Today a 2017 eGolf 35 kwh might be 28 k.

    If this Neo comes in at 28 k after grants - then an eGolf has to be at a worth while saving to put up with.....

    1) no active cooling.

    2) less range.

    3) slower charging speeds as the Neo can charge faster.

    4) slower performance on the Golf.

    5) a potentially nicer drive on the Neo - if this is to be VWs future direction they will want to take the driving features like handling on this VW EV that showcases the future to a new level.

    This isn't a dig at the eGolf but is the simple market reality to be expected when a new car makes the leap we expect from the Neo when compared to the eGolf that it effectively is a successor to.


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    #561
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Old diesel wrote: »
    The arrival of new EVs will have to cause an impact on resale of an older less capable one.

    Today a 2017 eGolf 35 kwh might be 28 k.

    If this Neo comes in at 28 k after grants - then an eGolf has to be at a worth while saving to put up with.....

    1) no active cooling.

    2) less range.

    3) slower charging speeds as the Neo can charge faster.

    4) slower performance on the Golf.

    5) a potentially nicer drive on the Neo - if this is to be VWs future direction they will want to take the driving features like handling on this VW EV that showcases the future to a new level.

    This isn't a dig at the eGolf but is the simple market reality to be expected when a new car makes the leap we expect from the Neo when compared to the eGolf that it effectively is a successor to.

    Which is why I still have a hard time believing VW will offer a 48kWh EV for 25k

    No else is

    Why would they?


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    #562
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    KCross wrote: »
    Well well! You've changed your tune! What happened to the multiple posts of "they will plummet like a stone when the bigger batteries come out"! :)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105429316&postcount=28




    I can't remember exactly every post I ever made.



    This is different and I posted the example of buying a VW 40 v a VW 60.



    To explain better, one person buys a 2020 VW 40 and another buys a VW60. The 60 is 10k(example) more expensive. Both have same trim


    After 3 years and doing the exact same mileage will be higher battery be 10k more expensive still?? hard to know


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    #563
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Which is why I still have a hard time believing VW will offer a 48kWh EV for 25k

    No else is

    Why would they?




    Do we have to ask the same question every 3-4 pages. Has to be about the 10th time that exact question has been asked....


    Nobody knows till pricing is released I think is answer from now on :P


  • Options
    #564
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Which is why I still have a hard time believing VW will offer a 48kWh EV for 25k

    No else is

    Why would they?

    eGolf is i understand expensive because it's an ICE car converted* to an EV.

    A car designed as an EV like the Neo could be cheaper to make so I think it's fair to expect it to come in at a lower entry level price then eGolf.

    Theres 10 to 11 k to play with between your 25 k and today's eGolf price of just under 36 k.

    *converted isn't a great way to put it - the eGolf is build at the factory on day 1 to be an EV. I think it's better to say the original Golf Mk 7 design is to be an ICE car - and the design is then modified to be an EV.


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    #565
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    ted1 wrote: »
    A larger battery will have better resale

    generally yes, but it depends on the car and it also depends on the rate of depreciation.
    At the moment I could probably sell my car for 90+% of what it cost me to buy.
    The savings I've made on fuel more than cover depreciation.
    It will be different in a few years time when there is better supply but at the moment it's a win win.


  • Options
    #566
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    liamog wrote: »
    I will not be able to purchase an EV until I can do the Wild Atlantic Way and return during a winter storm without stopping.

    We are fine here but the Germans are not going to be a fan of EV's :rolleyes:

    Speed and EV's don't work well

    No EV can drive at speed with the heat on, in the cold ,with heated seats and get 450km, its more like 275km, and if its really cold its more like 200km

    If you drive 90km/h you will get what it says, but if you do 150km/h with a head wind in cold weather you can cut what it says you have left in half.

    The Germans used to cruising at 200km/h in Audi's will be shocked when a €70,000 Audi EV that should be able to do 400km can't even do 140km @ 200km/h


  • Options
    #567
    vidukasp
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭vidukasp


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    We are fine here but the Germans are not going to be a fan of EV's :rolleyes:

    Speed and EV's don't work well

    No EV can drive at speed with the heat on, in the cold ,with heated seats and get 450km, its more like 275km, and if its really cold its more like 200km

    If you drive 90km/h you will get what it says, but if you do 150km/h with a head wind in cold weather you can cut what it says you have left in half.

    The Germans used to cruising at 200km/h in Audi's will be shocked when a €70,000 Audi EV that should be able to do 400km can't even do 140km @ 200km/h
    The Germans used to cruising at 200km/h in Audi's will be shocked when a €70,000 Audi EV that should be able to do 400km can't even do 140km @ 200km/h
    Only 3 or 5 % of the Germans do the crazy speeds on the motorways. The other 95% is fine go to EV.


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    #568
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Mike9832 wrote: »

    The Germans used to cruising at 200km/h in Audi's will be shocked when a €70,000 Audi EV that should be able to do 400km can't even do 140km @ 200km/h


    How much diesel is the Audi cruising st 200km/h using?

    As VW say, their will still be a place for diesel in this new World. The difference is now diesel is for maybe 2-3% of drivers and electric should cover the rest. Or even PHEV....


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    #569
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭McGiver


    samih wrote:
    What the long trip on L40 made me realise in the summer was that actually your quality of life will probably be better if you stopped for a cuppa/10 quid charge instead of pushing on to your distant destination without a break. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

    Spot on. And I say this to everyone who asks or talks EV as part of my proselytising EV lecture - firstly it's safer too make breaks while driving and secondly "Are you in a hurry?"... We've become too much hurrying overall, no problem to slow down a bit, relax and enjoy your tea/coffee.


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    #570
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    How much diesel is the Audi cruising st 200km/h using?

    As VW say, their will still be a place for diesel in this new World. The difference is now diesel is for maybe 2-3% of drivers and electric should cover the rest. Or even PHEV....

    About 15l/100km

    500km range at that speed


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    #571
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,989 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    About 15l/100km

    I'd say it's a lot more than that. Even though the current A4 has a Cd of just 0.23, the best of all production cars, even a touch better than Tesla Model S and Hyundai Ioniq.


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