VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

Shefwedfan

Silent Running wrote: »

I'll be looking at the 500km model, and I do like my gadgets. I know it'll cost, but you can't take it with you, can you?

With that range, I could visit my daughter with only one charge en route. I need 3 with my current Ioniq. I do that run 4/5 times a year.

I also spin around Ireland a lot. This day last week I was walking on Malin head, a good spin from Wexford.

Ionity

Silent Running

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ionity

Didn't help me last week, but yes, it'll be great when they're up and running.

None on my UK route either.

Casati

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Everyone is getting all caught up and the car hasn’t even been released

My car does 120-140km in weather like this, I never use the charger network and I am perfectly happy....the v2 eGolf would be lovely for that odd trip at 220-240km.....if I had 330km I would be laughing.....

You can make 100 different reasons why you need more range, the dog ran over the cat and I need to go to the hospital but not me....

As I said many posts ago, the option will be a high spec 330km or a low spec 500km model looking at budget of circa 30k....I will be going high spec and 330km.....

So a high spec ‘Golf’ sized VW with 330km range will be 30k, where as a similar range Kona low spec (with leather) is 10k more? It will be great is that happens but VW ain’t a charity

liamog

Casati wrote: »

So a high spec ‘Golf’ sized VW with 330km range will be 30k, where as a similar range Kona low spec (with leather) is 10k more? It will be great is that happens but VW ain’t a charity

The I.D. will be priced to sell, they have to start earning back some of the massive investement in MEB and proving to German unions that they are around for the long term. Hyundai have priced to demand, they know they can sell as many Kona's as they ordered battery packs for so have no interest in selling it below the price the market will bear.

Casati

liamog wrote: »

The I.D. will be priced to sell, they have to start earning back some of the massive investement in MEB and proving to German unions that they are around for the long term. Hyundai have priced to demand, they know they can sell as many Kona's as they ordered battery packs for so have no interest in selling it below the price the market will bear.

Yeah probably right, sure it’s not like they have just reported record sales in their history or have surpassed Toyota last year to become no. 1 global car manufacturer. Those unions must be worried they are going to disappear

Old diesel

I would see one charge stop as VERY acceptable on a Castletownbere to Dublin run.

You (in a Kona etc) would stop at a time you'd naturally stop anyway.

Somewhere around Cashel on way up.

Go for three shorter stops on the round trip rather then a silly long 1 hr 20 min stop @ 50 kw.

One stop in Cashel on way up, top up in Dublin - and whatever we need to get home in Portlaoise on way back.

Jobs a good un.

Edit thats 3 stops on the big battery having started @ 100 percent in Castletownbere

liamog

Casati wrote: »

Yeah probably right, sure it’s not like they have just reported record sales in their history or have surpassed Toyota last year to become no. 1 global car manufacturer. Those unions must be worried they are going to disappear

The German auto unions are really worried about the mandated emission reductions, there has to be a 45% reduction in fleet CO2 levels by 2030. Fortunately they have more wisdom than the average boards.ie poster and can see the writing on the wall.

There is a choice, change now or be regulated out of business, at the same time the unions are forcing investment in Germany instead of allowing it to be used as an excuse to move production to cheaper EU countries.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

They've been indicating the base car will be €25k and have an approx 330km range for a while now. Similarly there are also indicatations of a €20k release of a longer range Up!/Citigo/Mii with approx 300km of range.

Alot of people misunderstand just how much battery prices have dropped. I've seen pack level pricing for 2018 is around $176/kWh and that $140/kWh is likely for 2019.

The orignal e-Up! used 25Ah PHEV2 Cells from Sanyo. The new version will be switching the cells to 50Ah PHEV2s to give an approx 38kWh battary pack. The battery pack will go from approx $7,500 to around $5,000 despite doubling in size.

Good point

Still don't get how EVs are so expensive

Take the Kona

Even if Hyundai are paying LG €145/kWh at the pack level it's still only €9000

The €10,000 government incentive takes care of the battery cost, effectively wiping it out

Where is the €38,000 coming from, must be huge margin on them

Electric motor, inverter etc can't be more expensive than a 1.6 turbo diesel combustion engine and all it's related exhaust, gearbox systems etc

Rest of the car is basically the same as the regular Kona with an lcd, maybe driving assists etc, but they can't be €14,000 worth

Decent spec ICE Kona is like 24-25k

Would love to see a cost breakdown on that

Shefwedfan

Casati wrote: »

Yeah probably right, sure it’s not like they have just reported record sales in their history or have surpassed Toyota last year to become no. 1 global car manufacturer. Those unions must be worried they are going to disappear

Have explained this a few times but here goes again

VW growth is slowing, worrying slowing after dieselgate. Any traction they got in US market evaporated overnight. They have 2% of the market in US and want to double it over the next 5 years to a massive 5%

VW also have a huge market in China. Guess which way China is going, what if VW lose the China market

After dieselgate the company a huge decision to make. They already had made a decision to start ID range but they had to make a huge change to try and gain back customer. So they doubled down on ID range.

To bring a car from planning to market in 4 years is huge. The amount invested in ID means that if it fails then VW will lose the US and China market. If they cannot grow and the other manufacturers gain more and more market share the writing is on the wall. It won't go under or anything but VW wants to be the number 1....

The choice with ID was make expensive cars and sell to the rich people. Or make a car that everyone will buy, another Beetle.....VW have decided to go the route of the Beetle. I borrowed that off VW themselves. You cannot compare what VW are doing to BMW/Hyundai/Kia/Nissan etc. If VW follow up with the promises they will have a full of cars in the next few years across all the brands. About 27 by 2025.....300 models by 2030 across all brands :eek:

Hyundai/Kia etc have invested the minimal amount possible while looking at other technology like hydrogen etc.....Nissan had the jump on everyone but done nothing with it. BMW really have no major plans, they might have 3-4 cars by 2025. not really giving the customers options?

Most of that was already discussed over the thread as I mentioned.....you can read it, say it bulls*** and move on. Only thing is anything VW has so far said has come true.....just look at VW Ireland.....how many VW dealers are now selling electric cars compared to 12 months ago.

Of course the whole thing could go to pot but I doubt it, there is far too much money behind it.

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Good point

Still don't get how EVs are so expensive

Take the Kona

Even if Hyundai are paying LG €145/kWh at the pack level it's still only €9000

The €10,000 government incentive takes care of the battery cost, effectively wiping it out

Where is the €38,000 coming from, must be huge margin on them

Electric motor, inverter etc can't be more expensive than a 1.6 turbo diesel combustion engine and all it's related exhaust, gearbox systems etc

Rest of the car is basically the same as the regular Kona with an lcd, maybe driving assists etc, but they can't be €14,000 worth

Decent spec ICE Kona is like 24-25k

Would love to see a cost breakdown on that

Lack of alternatives....plus Kia/Hyundi have no real interest in mass scale production so they are buying small amounts of batteries at a premium

Water John

Tooling would tend to be written down over a fairly short time IWT, just from some moulding background I have, take profits later.

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Kia/Hyundi have no real interest in mass scale production so they are buying small amounts of batteries at a premium

5th largest automaker in the world

They have to be getting a good price

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

5th largest automaker in the world

They have to be getting a good price

Their is a good price and then their is a 48 billion contract price....
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Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Their is a good price and then their is a 48 billion contract price....
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LG don't seem too impressed :pac:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/22/audi-hit-with-10-price-increase-on-lg-batteries-due-to-high-demand/

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

LG don't seem too impressed :pac:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/22/audi-hit-with-10-price-increase-on-lg-batteries-due-to-high-demand/

I see one word and close it down “reports”

In other words we have no idea but we need clicks today

Charlie-Bravo

Not sure this has been posted. I'm warming to these guys. I enjoy their excitement about the car although we don't learn much as it's still in development. Range sounds good though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Tqw9LX3QE

Shefwedfan

Interesting information on Auto Express Magazine.

As expected the 4XkWh has less Bhp than reported. 170Bhp would be plenty compared to the current eGolf.

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Interesting information on Auto Express Magazine.

As expected the 4XkWh has less Bhp than reported. 170Bhp would be plenty compared to the current eGolf.

If it's rwd, it's plenty

Those specs look class tbh for that price

Just hope it's efficiency is decent and isn't a brick on the motorway like a Leaf

Mike9832

How is it so slow though?

With 170bhp even it's a heavy 1600kg should be around 8 secs to 100km/h

ted1

Mike9832 wrote: »

How is it so slow though?

With 170bhp even it's a heavy 1600kg should be around 8 secs to 100km/h

Probably just software restrictions that enable them to sell performance models

Brera

Mike9832 wrote: »

How is it so slow though?

With 170bhp even it's a heavy 1600kg should be around 8 secs to 100km/h

I can’t see how it’s slow.

Seems similar to a 2L diesel golf and much faster the bog standard 1.6l diesel that most people are buying.

With the instant tourqe coming from the electric motors in the real world it will be faster

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

How is it so slow though?

With 170bhp even it's a heavy 1600kg should be around 8 secs to 100km/h

Who said it was slow?

DaveyDave

Would FWD not be more economical or does that not matter to EV?

Water John

People say RHD is better as the immediate full torque of electric will spin front wheels if you fancy a bit of oomph, esp people like Thierry

Shefwedfan

DaveyDave wrote: »

Would FWD not be more economical or does that not matter to EV?

The problem with front wheel drive is the immediate power. My eGolf has 113Bhp, accelerate at all and you will get wheel spin. If wet then it is worse.



Easier to put into Eco mode which restricts the acceleration and you get away from it

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

How is it so slow though?

It's an estimate. And probably not a good estimate. Chances are it will be far quicker. Same happened with the first gen Leaf and also Ioniq. Official figure for Ioniq is 9.9s 0-100km/h but it does 0-60 in 8.4s (linky)

Brera

unkel wrote: »

It's an estimate. And probably not a good estimate. Chances are it will be far quicker. Same happened with the first gen Leaf and also Ioniq. Official figure for Ioniq is 9.9s 0-100km/h but it does 0-60 in 8.4s (linky)

Still much faster than any of the bog standard golfs knocking around 😉

grogi

DaveyDave wrote: »

Would FWD not be more economical or does that not matter to EV?

From the cost perspective, it does not matter for EV.

unkel

I'd say it will be under 8s

Mike9832

Brera wrote: »

I can’t see how it’s slow.

Seems similar to a 2L diesel golf and much faster the bog standard 1.6l diesel that most people are buying.

With the instant tourqe coming from the electric motors in the real world it will be faster

It will be much quicker than a diesel alright

170bhp and 9.5 secs to 100 doesn't look right to me

Agree with lads it's either software restriction or it's being downplayed alot

Power to weight alone should put it low 8's to 60 or else it's 1800kg of steel