VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

Silent Running

Mike9832 wrote: »

Will they have prices?

330km wltp is only a bit than the 300km rated Zoe

Leaf40 gets 280km

Probably not 48kWh useable in the ID?

Kona has almost 500km in that test

Tesla Model 3 550km

Isn't it time you had a tantrum and stormed off, never to return... only to come back with yet another username?

Lower Neo battery is 39kWh (?), so better range than the Zoe 40 and the Leaf 40. Does the Leaf 40 even do 280kms?

Kona is 64kWh.

Tesla model 3? when will we see one here and at what price?

Gingham1

The big benefit is that is a vw which means every fleet of company cars should be able to order it which you can't say about Nissan or Koreans in mainland Europe. My company car scheme only had the major European brands.

Orebro

Mike9832 wrote: »

If is the question

VW basically want everyone to delay buying an EV today and wait for us in 2020

Its a clever tactic to stop people buying Tesla's, long range Hyundai/Kia's because they have nothing to compete today

I hope the bastards ain't lieing, cause I am waiting too to see what they have to offer

You'll get one when they are as common as mud - you're a great man for hurling on the ditch.

Mike9832

Silent Running wrote: »

Isn't it time you had a tantrum and stormed off, never to return... only to come back with yet another username?

Lower Neo battery is 39kWh (?), so better range than the Zoe 40 and the Leaf 40. Does the Leaf 40 even do 280kms?

Kona is 64kWh.

Tesla model 3? when will we see one here and at what price?

Are u going to make me?

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Preorder Q1-Q2 2019, demos Q3 2019 and order book open. Delivery Q1 2020....maybe some in late 2019

That’s what they said over 12 months ago and they haven’t changed it

Right and left hand drive start shipping at same time

To update

I would not expect prices till Q3 this year.

They will leave till they have to, no point in telling the competition what they are selling at so they have 12 months to try and fix their own pricing

Price book opens when you can order.

None of this yet confirmed by VW but I doubt they want the competition to know their prices when they cannot take orders

Shefwedfan

Gingham1 wrote: »

The big benefit is that is a vw which means every fleet of company cars should be able to order it which you can't say about Nissan or Koreans in mainland Europe. My company car scheme only had the major European brands.

Same problem....we do have Nissan but they make the Leaf crazy money so you won't buy it....not that I would drive one.....all the others are not on list



The current eGolf is not cheap either because they say the ID range is about to replace it :mad:

Water John

Well EVs can be divided mainly by battery and range ATM. Leaf 30 and 40, Ioniq at one level, 64kwh Kona and Niro another.
Will VW make the jump and make a car of the 2nd level at the price of a 1st level car?

Silent Running

Water John wrote: »

Well EVs can be divided mainly by battery and range ATM. Leaf 30 and 40, Ioniq at one level, 64kwh Kona and Niro another.
Will VW make the jump and make a car of the 2nd level at the price of a 1st level car?

Well, that's what we are all hoping for. If they do, they'll sell a hell of a lot of cars. The current EV suppliers must be looking at VW and biting their collective nails. I hope VW produce the game changer that they seem to be promising. I'll be at the top of the queue.

Mike9832 wrote: »

Are u going to make me?

LOL.

Shefwedfan

Water John wrote: »

Well EVs can be divided mainly by battery and range ATM. Leaf 30 and 40, Ioniq at one level, 64kwh Kona and Niro another.
Will VW make the jump and make a car of the 2nd level at the price of a 1st level car?

I'm not sure what your point is.

They will have two battery options. Entry is mentioned as 25k starting, 4XkWh. Long range seems to be in the 6XkWh...


Leaf 30 is not really a comparison. Leaf 40 would only be worth looking at the 25k ID.



Kona/Niro will be in the bracket of the long range. Will they be more expensive to the ID? probably if you compare to the base. If you add in the top package of the ID I would expect they will be similar price. All guess work.



Remember the Kona is more or less a baseline spec car, with leather seats.

Silent Running

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Remember the Kona is more or less a baseline spec car, with leather vinyl seats.

Mike9832

Silent Running wrote: »

Well, that's what we are all hoping for. If they do, they'll sell a hell of a lot of cars. The current EV suppliers must be looking at VW and biting their collective nails. I hope VW produce the game changer that they seem to be promising. I'll be at the top of the queue.

Range of these ID's are hardly game changing

The base model has 330km wltp

Leaf has 280km

330km seems very low for 48kWh, hope its not aero issues or much lower useable

New i3 with 38kWh useable gets 310km

Most people will have to go for a mid range VW ID which will probably be 30k+, as 330km wltp is like 200km on the motorway @ 120 ( less than Cork - Dublin)

Price is key

I'm not trolling here, just being a bit pessimistic as I always am

Water John

Well we have shorter range cars in one bundle and longer range in another, each has its own price point. Some makes have a model in each group eg 39 kwh and 64kwh, even within the one model.
VW will have a variety of cars. Will their 64kwh be cheaper than present offerings? Just hoping they are.
One suspects present models are carrying a high level of amortisation of their R & D and Tooling in their prices. VW using one common frame can spread this and thus achieve a lower price.

Orebro

Mike9832 wrote: »

I'm not trolling here, just being a bit pessimistic as I always am

That would make a great signature for you.

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Range of these ID's are hardly game changing

The base model has 330km wltp

Leaf has 280km

330km seems very low for 48kWh, hope its not aero issues or much lower useable

New i3 with 38kWh useable gets 310km

Most people will have to go for a mid range VW ID which will probably be 30k+, as 330km wltp is like 200km on the motorway @ 120 ( less than Cork - Dublin)

Price is key

I'm not trolling here, just being a bit pessimistic as I always am

To be honest you are trolling, but I am used to it at this stage. Go back to the start of the thread and it was similar stuff you posted, just another user name.



I don't really care what an i3 does. In real life the eGolf has shown on numerous test how good the drive train is compared to the rest of the bunch so you would have to expect a car developed from the start for electric will be very efficient.



VW could sell a 330km range car to 90/95% of the irish market and they would never really have issues with range. Of course some people need bigger cars and some people need more range etc but your average family will never need more than 330km per day. If they do then just plug in Ionity.


Range is just a bulls*** excuse used by oil companies to restrict the sale of alternative fuel cars.

Just one thing to note....VW could sell the 330km car, that is not to say when you walk into a VW dealer they are not going to try and sell you the longer range version.

Shefwedfan

Water John wrote: »

Well we have shorter range cars in one bundle and longer range in another, each has its own price point. Some makes have a model in each group eg 39 kwh and 64kwh, even within the one model.
VW will have a variety of cars. Will their 64kwh be cheaper than present offerings? Just hoping they are.
One suspects present models are carrying a high level of amortisation of their R & D and Tooling in their prices. VW using one common frame can spread this and thus achieve a lower price.

The expectation is a 64kWh VW car should be cheaper than a 64kwh Kia/Hyundai. A few reasons

We are still in Europe
Bulk buying of battery reduces cost
Bulk buying of components for ID range reduces cost
Large scale manufacturing reduces cost
Convert not create manufacturing lines(versus Tesla this one)
VW already has in place a distribution solution, they can get quicker to market
Reduced optional items, now packages reduces manufacturing costs

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be honest you are trolling, but I am used to it at this stage. Go back to the start of the thread and it was similar stuff you posted, just another user name.



I don't really care what an i3 does. In real life the eGolf has shown on numerous test how good the drive train is compared to the rest of the bunch so you would have to expect a car developed from the start for electric will be very efficient.



VW could sell a 330km range car to 90/95% of the irish market and they would never really have issues with range. Of course some people need bigger cars and some people need more range etc but your average family will never need more than 330km per day. If they do then just plug in Ionity.


Range is just a bulls*** excuse used by oil companies to restrict the sale of alternative fuel cars.

Just one thing to note....VW could sell the 330km car, that is not to say when you walk into a VW dealer they are not going to try and sell you the longer range version.

Range is key especially with mass adoption. People want the option of driving the car they paid 30k for to cork and back without having to q for and charge. Simple as that. There’s no point in building a motor way to cork if people are going to lose time charging.

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The expectation is a 64kWh VW car should be cheaper than a 64kwh Kia/Hyundai. A few reasons

We are still in Europe
Bulk buying of battery reduces cost
Bulk buying of components for ID range reduces cost
Large scale manufacturing reduces cost
Convert not create manufacturing lines(versus Tesla this one)
VW already has in place a distribution solution, they can get quicker to market
Reduced optional items, now packages reduces manufacturing costs

Quick to market ? They are one of the last

Casati

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The expectation is a 64kWh VW car should be cheaper than a 64kwh Kia/Hyundai. A few reasons

We are still in Europe
Bulk buying of battery reduces cost
Bulk buying of components for ID range reduces cost
Large scale manufacturing reduces cost
Convert not create manufacturing lines(versus Tesla this one)
VW already has in place a distribution solution, they can get quicker to market
Reduced optional items, now packages reduces manufacturing costs

VW charge a premium for petrol and diesels today, and also a premium for the Golf EV despite the fact all these advantages exist today for them. I can’t see them changing their strategy to start dramatically under-cutting any Korean manufacturer. They answer to their shareholders after all and will charge the maximum they can get away with.

If Kona’s are sold out globally so quickly it tells you they got their (high) pricing correct. It’s logical VW’s of similar size/ performance/ range will be at least as expensive and probably 10%+ expensive, otherwise they will be leaving money on the table and seriously damage the premium perception of the rest of their profitable cars.

The base car might be 25k after grants but I bet you it will be a Citigo size machine, and the Golf size equivalent will be dearer than the Gold EV today so 40k + after grants - or 50k+ when the grants disappear

Shefwedfan

ted1 wrote: »

Quick to market ? They are one of the last

Who is in front of them?

Shefwedfan

ted1 wrote: »

Range is key especially with mass adoption. People want the option of driving the car they paid 30k for to cork and back without having to q for and charge. Simple as that. There’s no point in building a motor way to cork if people are going to lose time charging.

Cost is key.....


How many people go to Cork and back? I drove that motorway for 18 months on a project, once a week up and down....you could drive for an hour and not pass another car

Shefwedfan

Casati wrote: »

VW charge a premium for petrol and diesels today, and also a premium for the Golf EV despite the fact all these advantages exist today for them. I can’t see them changing their strategy to start dramatically under-cutting any Korean manufacturer. They answer to their shareholders after all and will charge the maximum they can get away with.

If Kona’s are sold out globally so quickly it tells you they got their (high) pricing correct. It’s logical VW’s of similar size/ performance/ range will be at least as expensive and probably 10%+ expensive, otherwise they will be leaving money on the table and seriously damage the premium perception of the rest of their profitable cars.

The base car might be 25k after grants but I bet you it will be a Citigo size machine, and the Golf size equivalent will be dearer than the Gold EV today so 40k + after grants - or 50k+ when the grants disappear

read the thread....;)

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Cost is key.....


How many people go to Cork and back? I drove that motorway for 18 months on a project, once a week up and down....you could drive for an hour and not pass another car

Cost is key alright

Going one way at motorway speeds 120kph would be an achievement for a 330km wltp car

Its 250km

Not a chance the base model for 25k does it

Your looking at 30k plus VW ID model then

48kWh non useable in 2020 is a bit disappointing if its non bang on 25k

Motorway driving like Cork - Dublin needs about 60kWh useable like the Teslas/Hyundais

liamog

Casati wrote: »

The base car might be 25k after grants but I bet you it will be a Citigo size machine, and the Golf size equivalent will be dearer than the Gold EV today so 40k + after grants - or 50k+ when the grants disappear

They've been indicating the base car will be €25k and have an approx 330km range for a while now. Similarly there are also indicatations of a €20k release of a longer range Up!/Citigo/Mii with approx 300km of range.

Alot of people misunderstand just how much battery prices have dropped. I've seen pack level pricing for 2018 is around $176/kWh and that $140/kWh is likely for 2019.

The orignal e-Up! used 25Ah PHEV2 Cells from Sanyo. The new version will be switching the cells to 50Ah PHEV2s to give an approx 38kWh battary pack. The battery pack will go from approx $7,500 to around $5,000 despite doubling in size.

Water John

Shef you could use the Cork/Dublin motorway and not pass a car, if you drive at 80kph.

An electric car that travels from any part of the country to Dublin without needing a charge will cover all peoples hesitancy.
BTW Castletownbere to Dublin is 383km so the Kona or Niro solves the issue.

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Cost is key.....


How many people go to Cork and back? I drove that motorway for 18 months on a project, once a week up and down....you could drive for an hour and not pass another car

It doesn’t matter, it’s the odd journey people want it for.

Why would someone change a 3,000 Ford Focus that can do the trip for a car that costs ten times that but can’t do the trip.

Range anxiety is one of the top reasons people have for not switching

Old diesel

If we regard the eGolf as VW "learning" then the 35 kwh sends pretty positive signals.

It is pretty much a finished product as it stands.

Move along to the designed from day 1 to be an EV Neo and you'd have to feel optimistic.

I dont like the styling - but I think I will get over that quick enough. My least favourite bit is that MPV style quarter glass in front of the front doors.

Water John

See VW are testing the cars in SA and Sweden. A truck company did similar once but they forgot to check how the truck would perform in our wet climate.

Shefwedfan

Everyone is getting all caught up and the car hasn’t even been released

My car does 120-140km in weather like this, I never use the charger network and I am perfectly happy....the v2 eGolf would be lovely for that odd trip at 220-240km.....if I had 330km I would be laughing.....

You can make 100 different reasons why you need more range, the dog ran over the cat and I need to go to the hospital but not me....

As I said many posts ago, the option will be a high spec 330km or a low spec 500km model looking at budget of circa 30k....I will be going high spec and 330km.....

Shefwedfan

Water John wrote: »

See VW are testing the cars in SA and Sweden. A truck company did similar once but they forgot to check how the truck would perform in our wet climate.

Biggest market is Germany and UK, I doubt they will not test for UK market

It’s no surprise the only people invited to SA where car magazines/shows from which two countries

Silent Running

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Everyone is getting all caught up and the car hasn’t even been released

My car does 120-140km in weather like this, I never use the charger network and I am perfectly happy....the v2 eGolf would be lovely for that odd trip at 220-240km.....if I had 330km I would be laughing.....

You can make 100 different reasons why you need more range, the dog ran over the cat and I need to go to the hospital but not me....

As I said many posts ago, the option will be a high spec 330km or a low spec 500km model looking at budget of circa 30k....I will be going high spec and 330km.....

I'll be looking at the 500km model, and I do like my gadgets. I know it'll cost, but you can't take it with you, can you?

With that range, I could visit my daughter with only one charge en route. I need 3 with my current Ioniq. I do that run 4/5 times a year.

I also spin around Ireland a lot. This day last week I was walking on Malin head, a good spin from Wexford.