Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-12-2018 6:11pm

The Tories displaying their vindictiveness

https://mobile.twitter.com/thecommongreen/status/1071068298505277440

RobMc59 · 07-12-2018 7:04pm

josip wrote: »

Barrys and Chef are Irish producers of tea and brown sauce and will do quite well if tariffs are applied to the Dutch/British tea bags known as Lyons.
HP sauce is owned by the Dutch now I think?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Sauce

The introduction to this Guardian article in 2015 is still relevant in 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2015/jan/05/-sp-brown-sauce-sales-are-falling-has-britain-finally-come-to-its-senses

What may the consequences of a hard brexit mean to Guinness which is owned by diageo?

LeinsterDub · 07-12-2018 7:13pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

What may the consequences of a hard brexit mean to Guinness which is owned by diagio?

The ownership is irrelevant except for a few select industries such as airlines. As for the effect for Guinness, who knows I'm sure they've investigated their supply chain. At a very high level they would have major concerns over any elements of their supply chain that relies on the UK.

FrancieBrady · 07-12-2018 7:19pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

What may the consequences of a hard brexit mean to Guinness which is owned by diagio?

If a company like Guinness have not a very strong survival strategy in place it would be hell rub it up them IMO. And I have been known to have a pint of their product or two.

Charles Babbage · 07-12-2018 7:25pm

murphaph wrote: »

It's kind of ironic but Brexit might actually do for Ireland what Brexiteers promise it will do for the UK. Ireland might really benefit from increased trade with markets further away, but in continental Europe! Most firms will have been quite happy with the large UK market on their doorstep and it will be a challenge to tap into the massive market beyond that but many firms have done it and there are huge (real) benefits to be had. Ireland is in a good position here. We are an English speaking country so we easily attract the language skills we need to export to continental Europe. It would be much more difficult for say Poland to attract Italians, Spanish, French etc. staff to live in Poland and handle their key accounts in those foreign countries.

What would be especially good if Irish firms diversified away from the UK, but in the end most of the UK trade remained as well.
As for language skills there are now quite a few Irish schooled people who have one or both parents from these countries and a good knowledge of their ways and their language.

MrMusician18 · 07-12-2018 8:42pm

listermint wrote: »

No,

YOU said the irish market is operating inefficiently.

I said that the Irish market hasnt gone to European market in largesse due to historical relationships.

its YOUR assertion that we cannot get same/similar deals from Continental providers as we do in the UK. YOUR assertion that they are worse deals there.

Yours, dont put words in my mouth. See where your argument falls down?

This is you

"if the continent had the same deals then we would have gone there instead"

- Nonsense.

No, that's not what I'm saying. For example:
a product costs x to import from the UK and (y+z) from the continent. X is less than (y+z), therefore it is economically efficient to import from the UK. Post Brexit it is expected that importing from the UK will get more expensive and cost (x+T) due to tariffs. (x+T) is greater than (y+z) so importing switches to the continent.Its still more expensive than the present day so prices HAVE to rise for those products.

People are saying here that substitution with continent sourced products will be at worst cost neutral and potentially cost reducing. What I'm saying, is that if that's the case then why aren't companies doing that now? And we have people saying that Irish companies are overpaying for imported goods (because relationships!) that could be sourced cheaper on the continent, or could be imported cost neutrally or cheaper on direct ferries. And I'm saying that's bull****.

Brexit has to mean prices rise here for certain goods. Ignoring the reality makes some of the posters here no better than brexiteers for their fantasies.

Enzokk · 07-12-2018 8:47pm

The Mapping Exercise from the DExEU has been published. Here is a few tweets from Tony Connelly,

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1071116889542287360

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1071116893321338880

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1071116898329337856

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1071116902402011138

Here is the link to the RTE article on it:

Document on North-South cooperation published by UK govt

Water John · 07-12-2018 8:48pm

Didn't see any one saying goods would be cheaper, but the extra cost from the continent would be minimal. Slightly longer delivery chain.

First Up · 07-12-2018 8:54pm

You can't generalise about that. Huge variation depending on the product. A lot depends on what if any duties are imposed but things of exclusively UK origin or with high intellectual or labour content could be cheaper because of currency movements, whereas goods with content imported into the UK would be less affected.

Its way to early to even speculate about that. Other factors - non-tariff barriers, customs checks or changes to transport will have a huge effect and we don't know what they will be.

Sam Russell · 07-12-2018 9:02pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

What may the consequences of a hard brexit mean to Guinness which is owned by diageo?

The future for Guinness looks black I'm afraid.

All Guinness is now brewed in Dublin (except for Nigerian Guinness, and possibly other small breweries), so there will be no shortage in the foreseeable future.

The nitrogen used for draught Guinness might be a problem, but no doubt there will be a solution.

Strazdas · 07-12-2018 9:09pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www-thejournal-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/?amp=1&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ==#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Ireland is the most stable country in the world in terms of being able to provide food for its population.
So, they are prepared to cause another famine to get Brexit!
Words fail me.

Even if Patel wasn't specifically talking about food shortages (it's not entirely clear), her general tone was pretty hostile and aggressive towards a neighbouring country and ally.

RobMc59 · 07-12-2018 9:10pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The future for Guinness looks black I'm afraid.

All Guinness is now brewed in Dublin (except for Nigerian Guinness, and possibly other small breweries), so there will be no shortage in the foreseeable future.

The nitrogen used for draught Guinness might be a problem, but no doubt there will be a solution.

Yes,I seen it and it`s impressive.I wondered if a hard brexit would cause problems with Guinness being owned by a British company?

J Mysterio · 07-12-2018 11:20pm

Seems to me that many in the UK with a stake in Brexit become too absorbed with the politics of Brexit: the machinations of Westminister and the personalities involved.

That's the main show in many ways: 'who will be the next PM?' is almost as interesting as 'will there be a deal or no deal? or the second question is only interesting insofar as how it impacts the first. 'What will come of Boris?' Very important (though I did enjoy him 'giving way' in Parliament).

It's like there are too many distractions and tangents and the big picture is lost and thus the outcome/ result is not then properly managed. The UK is in an existential crisis and the situation is not always treated with the seriousness the occasion calls for. Too much grandstanding, politicking and twattery.

L1011 · 07-12-2018 11:24pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Yes,I seen it and it`s impressive.I wondered if a hard brexit would cause problems with Guinness being owned by a British company?

Realistically no. Irish ops can run alone. And it's not the 1930s, if Guinness supplies had troubles the country (bar Cork) wouldn't close down.

briany · 07-12-2018 11:54pm

What's the story with post-Brexit travel? Will British citizens be able to enjoy weekend getaways to Spain just as easily as they do now under the terms of May's deal?

An Ciarraioch · 07-12-2018 11:56pm

briany wrote: »

What's the story with post-Brexit travel? Will British citizens be able to enjoy weekend getaways to Spain just as easily as they do now under the terms of May's deal?

Yes, aviation is covered under the deal.

An Ciarraioch · 07-12-2018 11:59pm

It appears Collins was close to a bilateral Border agreement with Craig, which would have made current discussions significantly different:

http://twitter.com/dramdarcy/status/1070625492993220609

An Ciarraioch · 07-12-2018 11:59pm

It appears Collins was close to a bilateral Border agreement with Craig, which would have made current discussions significantly different:

http://twitter.com/dramdarcy/status/1070625492993220609

Akrasia · 08-12-2018 12:09am

Sam Russell wrote: »

The future for Guinness looks black I'm afraid.

All Guinness is now brewed in Dublin (except for Nigerian Guinness, and possibly other small breweries), so there will be no shortage in the foreseeable future.

The nitrogen used for draught Guinness might be a problem, but no doubt there will be a solution.

nitrogen makes 78% of the air we breath. I think Guinness could build a few freezers in Dublin and extract plenty of it from the air if they needed to

Sam Russell · 08-12-2018 12:31am

Akrasia wrote: »

nitrogen makes 78% of the air we breath. I think Guinness could build a few freezers in Dublin and extract plenty of it from the air if they needed to

Not sure what quality of nitrogen they need. Ox free nitrogen is a bt tricky. Anyway, Nitogen is supplied by BOC (British Oxigen Company) so that might have a bearing.

With he nitrogen missing, the head will be a bt flat.

lawred2 · 08-12-2018 1:07am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not sure what quality of nitrogen they need. Ox free nitrogen is a bt tricky. Anyway, Nitogen is supplied by BOC (British Oxigen Company) so that might have a bearing.

With he nitrogen missing, the head will be a bt flat.

How'd they manage the nitrogen in 1798?

tuxy · 08-12-2018 1:15am

lawred2 wrote: »

How'd they manage the nitrogen in 1798?

They didn't the nitrogen was an abomination they introduced in the 1960s or 70s.
We need to go back to guinness original extra stout it was all a mistake!

L1011 · 08-12-2018 1:51am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not sure what quality of nitrogen they need. Ox free nitrogen is a bt tricky. Anyway, Nitogen is supplied by BOC (British Oxigen Company) so that might have a bearing.

With he nitrogen missing, the head will be a bt flat.

Its a nitrogen/co2 mix; and Air Products have a fractional air still somewhere in North County Dublin anyway as far as I remember.

And yes, its a modern enough aberation to provide the head previously obtained from the mix of very fresh stout with stale stout from two different casks. The absolutely nonsense "two part pour" was also developed at the same time because the old fresh/stale system required time to settle. Nitro Guinness does not require time to settle. The change was already unsettling auld lads used to the old system - if a pint had been delivered in seconds rather than minutes they would have rioted.

If you think you can tell the difference between two part and one part poured draught Guinness, you're either deluded by marketing or actually insane. Double blind testing shows there is no difference.

Leroy42 · 08-12-2018 8:36am

L1011 wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not sure what quality of nitrogen they need. Ox free nitrogen is a bt tricky. Anyway, Nitogen is supplied by BOC (British Oxigen Company) so that might have a bearing.

With he nitrogen missing, the head will be a bt flat.

Its a nitrogen/co2 mix; and Air Products have a fractional air still somewhere in North County Dublin anyway as far as I remember.

And yes, its a modern enough aberation to provide the head previously obtained from the mix of very fresh stout with stale stout from two different casks. The absolutely nonsense "two part pour" was also developed at the same time because the old fresh/stale system required time to settle. Nitro Guinness does not require time to settle. The change was already unsettling auld lads used to the old system - if a pint had been delivered in seconds rather than minutes they would have rioted.

If you think you can tell the difference between two part and one part poured draught Guinness, you're either deluded by marketing or actually insane. Double blind testing shows there is no difference.

Sorry to go OT, but are you saying that Guinness can be poured the same as a pint of lager and all that faffing about with waiting us cosmetic only? I don't drink it myself so have no idea

RobMc59 · 08-12-2018 9:30am

lawred2 wrote: »

How'd they manage the nitrogen in 1798?

More importantly,Guinness-a British owned company with Britain as it's biggest market and the majority of its other major consumers none EU countries-a sobering thought.

LuckyLloyd · 08-12-2018 9:44am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sorry to go OT, but are you saying that Guinness can be poured the same as a pint of lager and all that faffing about with waiting us cosmetic only? I don't drink it myself so have no idea

Yes. I encourage you to spend an evening testing this for yourself. Your barman will be only too happy to oblige.

lawred2 · 08-12-2018 10:16am

RobMc59 wrote: »

More importantly,Guinness-a British owned company with Britain as it's biggest market and the majority of its other major consumers none EU countries-a sobering thought.

And?

That's just another logistical problem that a British company has had foisted upon itself by poorly informed and easily led electorate.

These problems are repeated up and down the length of the United Kingdom for British companies.

I sense though that you seem to be taking some sort of delight out of the fact that this production facility is in Ireland...

listermint · 08-12-2018 10:23am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm saying. For example:
a product costs x to import from the UK and (y+z) from the continent. X is less than (y+z), therefore it is economically efficient to import from the UK. Post Brexit it is expected that importing from the UK will get more expensive and cost (x+T) due to tariffs. (x+T) is greater than (y+z) so importing switches to the continent.Its still more expensive than the present day so prices HAVE to rise for those products.

People are saying here that substitution with continent sourced products will be at worst cost neutral and potentially cost reducing. What I'm saying, is that if that's the case then why aren't companies doing that now? And we have people saying that Irish companies are overpaying for imported goods (because relationships!) that could be sourced cheaper on the continent, or could be imported cost neutrally or cheaper on direct ferries. And I'm saying that's bull****.

Brexit has to mean prices rise here for certain goods. Ignoring the reality makes some of the posters here no better than brexiteers for their fantasies.

You know nothing of small business if you think that historical relationships that are easy and in the same language negate seeking other suppliers on the continent directly.

You've demonstrated your clueless to that.

You don't seem to pay heed to language barriers I literally can't take you seriously.

UsedToWait · 08-12-2018 10:40am

RobMc59 wrote: »

More importantly,Guinness-a British owned company with Britain as it's biggest market and the majority of its other major consumers none EU countries-a sobering thought.

lawred2 wrote: »

And?

That's just another logistical problem that a British company has had foisted upon itself by poorly informed and easily led electorate.

These problems are repeated up and down the length of the United Kingdom for British companies.

I sense though that you seem to be taking some sort of delight out of the fact that this production facility is in Ireland...

It's just another little dog whistle from that poster, imo.
Paddy won't get his Guinness.

The other day he was posting some crackpot op-ed calling Ireland a 'failed post-colonial state'.

Anthracite · 08-12-2018 10:59am

L1011 wrote: »

Realistically no. Irish ops can run alone. And it's not the 1930s, if Guinness supplies had troubles the country (bar Cork) wouldn't close down.

*cough* Beamish and Murphy's *cough*

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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