Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Anthracite

RobMc59 wrote: »

More importantly,Guinness-a British owned company with Britain as it's biggest market and the majority of its other major consumers none EU countries-a sobering thought.

You can see that we are all very worried about this.

:rolleyes:

Dyr

Might give the smaller Irish breweries a chance to expand, that's a win win

RobMc59

UsedToWait wrote: »

It's just another little dog whistle from that poster, imo.
Paddy won't get his Guinness.



The other day he was posting some crackpot op-ed calling Ireland a 'failed post-colonial state'.

Raising a valid point shouldn't be a reason to attack.If you actually read what I said the EU market isn't the most important for Guinness-what's "crackpot"about that,

Anthracite

RobMc59 wrote: »

Raising a valid point shouldn't be a reason to attack.If you actually read what I said the EU market isn't the most important for Guinness-what's "crackpot"about that,

Why should the travails of one particular 'British' company be of such a concern to us? It's not even the case that they are supplying a staple, or something that doesn't already have like-for-like replacements on the market.

I'm sure if Diageo runs into specific Brexit-related troubles, they will soon be a 'Dutch' or 'Irish' or 'French' company anyway.

RobMc59

lawred2 wrote: »

And?

That's just another logistical problem that a British company has had foisted upon itself by poorly informed and easily led electorate.

These problems are repeated up and down the length of the United Kingdom for British companies.

I sense though that you seem to be taking some sort of delight out of the fact that this production facility is in Ireland...

Not particularly,i pointed out that Guinness sells more in none EU countries (obviously the biggest market the UK is still part of the EU) so isn't it reasonable to assume will protect those markets more in the event of difficulties caused by a hard brexit.

RobMc59

Anthracite wrote: »

Why should the travails of one particular 'British' company be of such a concern to us? It's not even the case that they are supplying a staple, or something that doesn't already have like-for-like replacements on the market.

I'm sure if Diageo runs into specific Brexit-related troubles, they will soon be a 'Dutch' or 'Irish' or 'French' company anyway.

Why should they?-the EU isn't the biggest market for Guinness.

Gerry T

RobMc59 wrote:

More importantly,Guinness-a British owned company with Britain as it's biggest market and the majority of its other major consumers none EU countries-a sobering thought.

Ehhhhm, Guinness in Dublin is an Irish legal entity, owned by a UK family. In '97 sold to diageo, which again incorporated in Dublin in 1923.
So Guinness and Diageo is Irish and hence EU.
There could be a Guinness in UK, they used to produce in park royal. There's also the possibility of a Guinness legal entity in Africa, they manufacture there also.

With regard to brexit what's your point.

Are you saying that Guinness will suffer as the pint will cost 5 or 10% more in the UK or that the average man in the UK is now going to pay that bit more for his Guinness.

Honest if Guinness went up by 20% I'd still drink it, because I'm too old to change, not mad on largers and don't go out as much as when I was 20. I'm prob the target market, young people drink all sorts, whiskey, gin, craft beers, Heineken 🀢......

Anthracite

RobMc59 wrote: »

Why should they?-the EU isn't the biggest market for Guinness.

So what's the supposed problem you are posing? Diageo don't care, we don't care...?

RobMc59

Gerry T wrote: »

Ehhhhm, Guinness in Dublin is an Irish legal entity, owned by a UK family. In '97 sold to diageo, which again incorporated in Dublin in 1923.
So Guinness and Diageo is Irish and hence EU.
There could be a Guinness in UK, they used to produce in park royal. There's also the possibility of a Guinness legal entity in Africa, they manufacture there also.

With regard to brexit what's your point.

Are you saying that Guinness will suffer as the pint will cost 5 or 10% more in the UK or that the average man in the UK is now going to pay that bit more for his Guinness.

Honest if Guinness went up by 20% I'd still drink it, because I'm too old to change, not mad on largers and don't go out as much as when I was 20. I'm prob the target market, young people drink all sorts, whiskey, gin, craft beers, Heineken 🀢......

You still don't get it do you-the EU isn't the biggest market for Guinness so any penalties on British companies could,from a purely business point of view influence their future strategies .Personally I think there's only one place Guinness should be brewed and that's Dublin.

Call me Al

RobMc59 wrote: »

You still don't get it do you-the EU isn't the biggest market for Guinness so any penalties on British companies could,from a purely business point of view influence their future strategies .Personally I think there's only one place Guinness should be brewed and that's Dublin.

Is your sentiment a bit like thinking that Bentleys should really only be made in GB?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/brexit-bentley-could-shift-production-europe-‘worst-case-scenario’

Sam Russell

RobMc59 wrote: »

You still don't get it do you-the EU isn't the biggest market for Guinness so any penalties on British companies could,from a purely business point of view influence their future strategies .Personally I think there's only one place Guinness should be brewed and that's Dublin.

So do Diageo. They closed the Park Royal brewery and moved all Guiness brewing to Dublin.

The UK already pay a premium for Guinness - in Ireland Guinness is generally the cheapest pint, but in the UK it is not.

Price is not an issue in a pub, because it is mostly someone else's round.

RobMc59

Call me Al wrote: »

Is your sentiment a bit like thinking that Bentleys should really only be made in GB?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/brexit-bentley-could-shift-production-europe-‘worst-case-scenario’;

Thank you for backing up my point..it has already been mooted that the VW owned Bentley might move production from the UK.I'm using the same formula that Diageo owned Guinness might move production-their biggest market isn't the EU-i would prefer to remain in the EU but unlike some posters on this thread i don't think the sun,moon and stars revolve around the EU.

RobMc59

Sam Russell wrote: »

So do Diageo. They closed the Park Royal brewery and moved all Guiness brewing to Dublin.

The UK already pay a premium for Guinness - in Ireland Guinness is generally the cheapest pint, but in the UK it is not.

Price is not an issue in a pub, because it is mostly someone else's round.

Good point-but cash is king and Diageo would protect its biggest market which in an acrimonious hard brexit isn't the EU.

Daemonic

The most likely scenario wouldn't be a move from Dublin, it would be a UK based brewery for that market. And you can guarantee they'd also import from Dublin and brand it Guinness Import and flog it as a relative luxury brand.

Gerry T

RobMc59 wrote:

You still don't get it do you-the EU isn't the biggest market for Guinness so any penalties on British companies could,from a purely business point of view influence their future strategies .Personally I think there's only one place Guinness should be brewed and that's Dublin.

So many holes in your argument. 1.8b pints a yr are sold, the UK isnt that important to guinness.
First the top ranking Guinness sold countries are Africa (40%), Nigeria, Ireland, Cameroon, USA. Don't know where the UK comes.
Second, the EU has trade deals all around the world, these protect guinness markets, bar UK and it's brexit strategy 😂😂😂, or lack of strategy.
Possibly Guinness might reopen park royal for the local market, time will tell.

But what is the point your making, what are we talking about, it's just nonsense.

RobMc59

Gerry T wrote: »

So many holes in your argument. 1.8b pints a yr are sold, the UK isnt that important to guinness.
First the top ranking Guinness sold countries are Africa (40%), Nigeria, Ireland, Cameroon, USA. Don't know where the UK comes.
Second, the EU has trade deals all around the world, these protect guinness markets, bar UK and it's brexit strategy 😂😂😂, or lack of strategy.
Possibly Guinness might reopen park royal for the local market, time will tell.

But what is the point your making, what are we talking about, it's just nonsense.

Please provide your information source regarding where Guinness is sold and why would the EU "protect" Guinness markets?

Gerry T

RobMc59 wrote:

Please provide your information source regarding where Guinness is sold and why would the EU "protect" Guinness markets?

Google irisharoundoz, i cant do a link from my phone. You made a claim, what's your source.
In that article it says outside ireland the next biggest market for guinness is the UK where Guinness is 5th best selling beer, but that's not translating into qty of Guinness pints sold.
The EU doesn't protect markets per say, it provides markets. Not just to guinness but to all EU businesses. As it stands when the UK leaves next April it trades on worse than agreed wto terms, it's submitted wto tariff schedule is not agreed. Why oh why would Guinness move production from the EU to little england.

RobMc59

Gerry T wrote: »

Google irisharoundoz, i cant do a link from my phone. You made a claim, what's your source.
In that article it says outside ireland the next biggest market for guinness is the UK where Guinness is 5th best selling beer, but that's not translating into qty of Guinness pints sold.
The EU doesn't protect markets per say, it provides markets. Not just to guinness but to all EU businesses. As it stands when the UK leaves next April it trades on worse than agreed wto terms, it's submitted wto tariff schedule is not agreed. Why oh why would Guinness move production from the EU to little england.

Ermm....maybe because it's British owned and by the way,Africa is a continent not a country and your source says the UK is the biggest market .

Rhineshark

RobMc59 wrote: »

Please provide your information source regarding where Guinness is sold and why would the EU "protect" Guinness markets?

Your argument appears to be;
- UK drinks Guinness quite a lot (True, they do import the most, followed by Nigeria)
-EU does not drink much Guinness
- *Ireland does not count as EU because otherwise we'd have to count that as EU Guinness consumption and that is awkward for the point being made.
-*Likewise, all the countries we trade Guinness to through the EU shouldn't count because er...
- Therefore, Diageo may move Guinness brewing to the UK to service their biggest market and ignore the rest of the world, especially Africa, which drinks a lot of Guinness.
-*Ignoring again that Diageo closed their UK production facility due to dropping sales in the UK and "a change in tastes". UK is obviously the most important anyway.
-How dya like them apples.

I mean...really? UK may be largest single importer but RoW trade is a lot more important than one lone market.

RobMc59

Rhineshark wrote: »

Your argument appears to be;
- UK drinks Guinness quite a lot (True, they do import the most, followed by Nigeria)
-EU does not drink much Guinness
- *Ireland does not count as EU because otherwise we'd have to count that as EU Guinness consumption and that is awkward for the point being made.
-*Likewise, all the countries we trade Guinness to through the EU shouldn't count because er...
- Therefore, Diageo may move Guinness brewing to the UK to service their biggest market and ignore the rest of the world, especially Africa, which drinks a lot of Guinness.
-*Ignoring again that Diageo closed their UK production facility due to dropping sales in the UK and "a change in tastes". UK is obviously the most important anyway.
-How dya like them apples.

I mean...really? UK may be largest single importer but RoW trade is a lot more important than one lone market.

So you are saying that to prove your point we have to say Ireland isn't counted as being in the EU.-is that correct?:)

Water John

We're all fine here in the Republic of Cork. As poster above said we've got Murphys and lovely creamy Beamish, nothing to touch that.

Seems a short news day here. Just one or two doing doughnuts.

MrMusician18

listermint wrote: »

You know nothing of small business if you think that historical relationships that are easy and in the same language negate seeking other suppliers on the continent directly.

You've demonstrated your clueless to that.

You don't seem to pay heed to language barriers I literally can't take you seriously.

Small businesses like German retailers Aldi and Lidl? They still import through the UK.

If there is anyone clueless it's you, literally ignoring the experts.

Anthracite

RobMc59 wrote: »

Ermm....maybe because it's British owned and by the way,Africa is a continent not a country and your source says the UK is the biggest market .

So what??

Do you have a point at all?

Phonehead

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you are saying that to prove your point we have to say Ireland isn't counted as being in the EU.-is that correct?:)

My reading of that is that Ireland is reported as its own market and not combined with the EU. Ireland however is in the EU so the EU market is Ireland + EU.

RobMc59

Anthracite wrote: »

So what??

Do you have a point at all?

If you choose to ignore the fact that the EU ISN'T the biggest market for Guinness and somehow think Irelands economy isn't subject to EU rules because it doesn't suit you to say that then fine-there will never be a problem for a British owned company in the EU in the event of a hard brexit because Ireland are exempt from that situation and don't have to follow EU rules.

J Mysterio

Ultimately, Diageo might tale a hit to their substantial profits... who cares?

We will still drink Guinness and Beamish & Murphy's might do a bit better...

Rhineshark

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you are saying that to prove your point we have to say Ireland isn't counted as being in the EU.-is that correct?:)

*facepalm* No, as is blatantly obvious. I am referring to your completely ignoring that Ireland is part of the EU in your argument. Why is the only part you respond to the bit that you spectacularly misunderstood?

And again now, why is trade of Guinness to the UK more important than to the rest of the world, especially Africa? The UK might think trade with ROW isn't through the EU, but you know better, soo...?

Igotadose

J Mysterio wrote: »

Ultimately, Diageo might tale a hit to their substantial profits... who cares?

We will still drink Guinness and Beamish & Murphy's might do a bit better...

Having a relative that worked at high level in Diageo up until a few years ago, rest assured they're not worrying so much about the UK market. They're expanding as fast as they can where the growth is - China and Africa.

RobMc59

Rhineshark wrote: »

*facepalm* No, as is blatantly obvious. I am referring to your completely ignoring that Ireland is part of the EU in your argument. Why is the only part you respond to the bit that you spectacularly misunderstood?

And again now, why is trade of Guinness to the UK more important than to the rest of the world, especially Africa? The UK might think trade with ROW isn't through the EU, but you know better, soo...?

The unconditional blind devotion to the EU on this forum can be disturbing sometimes.-If Guinness sells most of its product to ROW and not the EU, isn't it reasonable to think a hard brexit may cause problems which may result in the owners reviewing it's strategy?And why can Guinness only be sold through the EU?-You are misguided and blinded by your inability to see any world beyond the EU.

Rhineshark

RobMc59 wrote: »

The unconditional blind devotion to the EU on this forum can be disturbing sometimes.-If Guinness sells most of its product to ROW and not the EU, isn't it reasonable to think a hard brexit may cause problems which may result in the owners reviewing it's strategy?And why can Guinness only be sold through the EU?-You are misguided and blinded by your inability to see any world beyond the EU.

Sigh. Because our external trade is done through the EU.