Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

FreudianSlippers

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Any Irish person who thinks that leave is a good idea is either batsh*t insane or trolling.

I'm more worried about the people that see the Brexit shambles and are supportive of Ireland doing the same thing...

FrancieBrady

Jeffery Donaldson on Pat Kenny, repudiating the views of the Ulster Farmers Union on the backstop - on the basis of the opinions of a few farmers he talked to in his constituency.

Hurrache

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe not prevailing but what are unionists, and specifically the DUP themselves doing to promote inter-community acceptance?

They won't even represent the wishes of the majority of their community.

Jeffrey Donaldson on Pat Kenny this morning saying that the union is of most importance, then seconds later out of the other side of his mouth says he's not representing northern Ireland when in the house of commons, but just the people who can vote for him in his own constituency.

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

Jeffrey Donaldson on Pat Kenny this morning saying that the union is of most importance, then seconds later out of the other side of his mouth says he's not representing northern Ireland when in the house of commons, but just the people who can vote for him in his own constituency.

Of all the DUP MPs, Donaldson is the most intelligent. He knows he's selling snake oil but, politically, he has no choice. For now, anyway.

Enzokk

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Lucid Talk poll saying 62% in NI support remaining in SM and CU, even if GB doesn't (Evan Davis tweet - most details in paywalled Times article)!

https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronMcAllorum/status/1070821679671205888/photo/1

Next time I hear Arlene or one of her party saying they represent the interests of the people of NI I will scream at the radio/television/phone, "NO YOU DON'T!!", it is astonishing to me that they are allowed to say this.

I understand the policy of abstaining of representation in the HoC, but this is just another indication that while SF are representing their voters by doing what they said (at least they keep their word), they are also harming the same voters and those others around the country. They are in an impossible position and have been put there by Theresa May and the DUP.

Folkstonian wrote: »

There we have it, then. The thread may as well be closed.

You are either pro-remain, or mentally unwell.

If this is the level that debate has slumped to, it’s probably time to call time on discussion.

Well you do have to wonder why someone would vote to not just make themselves poorer but those around them as well. Those that will be fine either way is just selfish and those that voted for less services and benefits that they depend on, well the poster may have been a bit blunt but I don't see it as a rational choice.

That is looking at the choice the UK made, if we had the choice and a politician came to my doorstep to canvas for leaving the EU for less benefits I would call him insane.

lawred2

Enzokk wrote: »

Next time I hear Arlene or one of her party saying they represent the interests of the people of NI I will scream at the radio/television/phone, "NO YOU DON'T!!", it is astonishing to me that they are allowed to say this.

I understand the policy of abstaining of representation in the HoC, but this is just another indication that while SF are representing their voters by doing what they said (at least they keep their word), they are also harming the same voters and those others around the country. They are in an impossible position and have been put there by Theresa May and the DUP.

ah no - not SF again

dr.fuzzenstein

Folkstonian wrote: »

There we have it, then. The thread may as well be closed.

You are either pro-remain, or mentally unwell.

If this is the level that debate has slumped to, it’s probably time to call time on discussion.

My reply wasn't quite as broad as you may think it was and was more aimed at a certain poster stating his nationality.

dr.fuzzenstein

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm more worried about the people that see the Brexit shambles and are supportive of Ireland doing the same thing...

Well there are people who believe that the earth is flat, so there will always be those who can be sold the biggest crock ever and they will defend it to their dying breath, because it's "sticking it to the man".
Or rather poking yourself in the eye with a stick, because you don't like what you see.

Enzokk

lawred2 wrote: »

ah no - not SF again

Like Brexit it is a talking point that will only go away when Brexit does, which is probably not for the next 15 years or so.:eek:


In other news the government has a plan to deal with medicine shortages. They will overrule a doctor's prescription and have the pharmacy give the patient not what was prescribed.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1070949092078039041

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1070968340884189195

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1070968819961790464

Project fear and all that rubbish.

funkey_monkey

https://www-thejournal-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/?amp=1&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ==#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Ireland is the most stable country in the world in terms of being able to provide food for its population.
So, they are prepared to cause another famine to get Brexit!
Words fail me.

prawnsambo

Enzokk wrote: »

Like Brexit it is a talking point that will only go away when Brexit does, which is probably not for the next 15 years or so.:eek:


In other news the government has a plan to deal with medicine shortages. They will overrule a doctor's prescription and have the pharmacy give the patient not what was prescribed.

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1070949092078039041

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1070968340884189195

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1070968819961790464

Project fear and all that rubbish.

Because the "highly trained pharmacists" will have full knowledge of all the contra-indications and medical history that the GP considered before prescribing.

VinLieger

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www-thejournal-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/?amp=1&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ==#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Ireland is the most stable country in the world in terms of being able to provide food for its population.
So, they are prepared to cause another famine to get Brexit!
Words fail me.

Also weve collectively all agreed there are potential problems in the case of a no deal brexit and been preparing for the better part of two years. They are just now starting to admit there might be some small issues 3 months before they need to have things ready....

lawred2

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www-thejournal-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/?amp=1&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ==#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Ireland is the most stable country in the world in terms of being able to provide food for its population.
So, they are prepared to cause another famine to get Brexit!
Words fail me.

good grief

Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon reacted to the story, saying that “The sheer moral bankruptcy of the Tory Brexiteers is on full display today.”

succinctly put

J Mysterio

Folkstonian wrote: »

There we have it, then. The thread may as well be closed.

You are either pro-remain, or mentally unwell.

If this is the level that debate has slumped to, it’s probably time to call time on discussion.

Not sure why you think you hold some moral high ground on this issue. Half of your contributions here consist of being personally offended by the contributions of others. Fact is, 95% of Irish people think Brexit is a bad idea. They are right.

Gerry T

Folkstonian wrote:

Britain (but any EU member state really) has a binary choice to make going forward. To be more financially prosperous or to have more control over the traditional pillars of the nation state.

Folkstonian wrote:

Agreed. It’s a simple matter of conviction.

Folkstonian wrote:

Voters just have to decide which is more important to them.

Folkstonian wrote:

I really think people on both sides of the debate in Britain need to be more realistic, and more honest.

I think a number of people have replied to this, but your the first person I've heard that supported brexit that said post leaving, the UK would be fincially worse off. The current debate from brexiteers just ignore the possibility of a hard brexit and focus on the current T.May deal as tying the UK hands and preventing the UK striking free trade deals all over the globe.
It's nonsense, the deal tabled only lasts for transition, end 2020. At that point the UK hard brexit with exception of NI, until the UK pits in the technology solution that allows two separate customs union work with no border infrastructure/controls....which brexiteers have said "the technology exists"....hummm.
But what hasn't being said is, if your right and the choice was really about taking back control, what control are you really taking back. On immigration from the EU the UK always had the power to return an EU citizen that was a burden on the UK state after 3mths, but it never exercised that right, like other EU countries do. On laws the EU primarily gets involved in trade related law...standards, working conditions, employee rights etc.... each country was left alone in how there's laws were implemented and when it came to all other law such as criminal etc it very seldom dictated to member states...so what has really being gained back, very little if anything.
The issue of free movement is captured under my point on immigration, but the loss of the benefits, working abroad, visa free travel, eh1 medical, retiring etc.... are all lost.
The CU & SM are the backbone of the EU, having tariff free trading, common standards and the strength of an 18trillion dollar market to punch globally is all lost....what's the negatives of these....and don't say taking back control of laws and borders, because as I've pointed out their red herrings.

Isn't the truth the UK just hasn't understood the value of the EU and the overall benefits set against the little sovergnity it has to surrender.

A question for you, one I don't know the answer. The UK nett contribution is approx 7.5billion/yr. How much will it cost the UK to control it's borders (customs officials, police, army in NI and the mainland ðŸ˜), replace all the regulatory bodies the EU provides (Hugh list but don't forget the likes of vetenary inspectors travelling globally). How many billion each yr will all that cost.

CelticRambler

Folkstonian wrote: »

To be more financially prosperous or to have more control over the traditional pillars of the nation state.

The four-nation state. And therein lies the problem: two of the four are built on different pillars, and are being told that they are not allow exercise control over their destiny because half of the population of one of the four, with alternative ambitions, have decided otherwise.

greenfield21 wrote: »

The people are fed up as it is and world economy is said to have peaked. Imagine what a recession would do. Just look what's going on in France.

What's happening in France is also the product of a toxic FPTP (-type) electoral system, coupled with the French belief that shooting yourself in the head is a valid form of protest against the injustice of the Ruling Classes.

The Hound Gone Wild

prawnsambo wrote: »

Because the "highly trained pharmacists" will have full knowledge of all the contra-indications and medical history that the GP considered before prescribing.

Well... Yes. A local community pharmacist knows more about contra-indications and drugs in general than any GP. This looks like pharmacists being able to switch between different drugs of the same class. A pharmacist is more than qualified to make that call, obvious exceptions aside.

VinLieger

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

Well... Yes. A local community pharmacist knows more about contra-indications and drugs in general than any GP. This looks like pharmacists being able to switch between different drugs of the same class. A pharmacist is more than qualified to make that call, obvious exceptions aside.

They are absolutely not qualified for this as they have no clue of the medical history and nor should they

Call me Al

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

Well... Yes. A local community pharmacist knows more about contra-indications and drugs in general than any GP. This looks like pharmacists being able to switch between different drugs of the same class. A pharmacist is more than qualified to make that call, obvious exceptions aside.

They are not the patient's doctor. They know the drugs, they don't know the patient.

Bit cynical

J Mysterio wrote: »

Not sure why you think you hold some moral high ground on this issue. Half of your contributions here consist of being personally offended by the contributions of others. Fact is, 95% of Irish people think Brexit is a bad idea. They are right.

I think it is not merely disagreement with Brexit. A lot of people don't respect the decision either. If they had their way, the UK would not be allowed to make such a decision.

MrMusician18

funkey_monkey wrote: »

https://www-thejournal-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/?amp=1&amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ==#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Ireland is the most stable country in the world in terms of being able to provide food for its population.
So, they are prepared to cause another famine to get Brexit!
Words fail me.

While this is true, there almost certainly would be shortages of certain types of food and food products in the country in the event of a hard Brexit. You might not be able to find your Weetabix in the local supermarket, a hard Brexit would definitely see some empty shelves in supermarkets.

The country wouldn't starve however, but choice would be limited with respect to today.

VinLieger

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The country wouldn't starve however, but choice would be limited with respect to today.

Indeed we are one of the most stable countries with regard to being able to feed ourselves in the world. The UK on the other hand i read imports something close to 50%( no citation so could be wrong) of its food, which is insane and why they are so open to very dangerous shortages in the case of a hard brexit.

CelticRambler

Meanwhile, Norway says "feck off ..."

[Heidi Nordby] Lunde told the Guardian: “Really, the Norwegian option is not an option. We have been telling you this for one and a half years since the referendum and how this works, so I am surprised that after all these years it is still part of the grown-up debate in the UK. You just expect us to give you an invitation rather than consider whether Norway would want to give you such an invitation. It might be in your interest to use our agreement, but it would not be in our interest.”

EdgeCase

They do realise we're the ones still in the single market and they're the ones leaving?

Fog in the channel mentality.

Comments like that could cost the UK economy billions as they'll activate Irish retailers contingency plans.

You'll just see a lot more continental products on the shelves.

If she thinks Dunnes, Musgraves, Lidl, Aldi or even Tesco Ireland will just passively sit there if suppliers can't supply at reasonable cost she never met a supermarket buyer.

We'll end up with some familiar brands disappearing but it creates a large space for both Irish and continental direct replacements.

Meanwhile the UK is the one facing a fundament food shortage of basic items.

Leroy42

Bit cynical wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

Not sure why you think you hold some moral high ground on this issue. Half of your contributions here consist of being personally offended by the contributions of others. Fact is, 95% of Irish people think Brexit is a bad idea. They are right.

I think it is not merely disagreement with Brexit. A lot of people don't respect the decision either. If they had their way, the UK would not be allowed to make such a decision.

And they must take responsibility for that decision.

Responsibility for maintaining the GFA for example.
Responsibility for paying their obligations to the EU.
Responsibility for the outcome of the decision rather than blaming the Irish or the EU.

Enzokk

MrMusician18 wrote: »

While this is true, there almost certainly would be shortages of certain types of food and food products in the country in the event of a hard Brexit. You might not be able to find your Weetabix in the local supermarket, a hard Brexit would definitely see some empty shelves in supermarkets.

The country wouldn't starve however, but choice would be limited with respect to today.

Surely the only products we would have a shortage with would be specialist British products that has British ingredients. Seems that you can find most other products with a different brand name from your friendly German supermarket that would surely be sourced from the continent, right?

Water John

Yorkshire Puds and Cornish Pasties, can't think of any thing else.

cml387

Enzokk wrote: »

Surely the only products we would have a shortage with would be specialist British products that has British ingredients. Seems that you can find most other products with a different brand name from your friendly German supermarket that would surely be sourced from the continent, right?

It's transporting goods through the UK is the problem. Not actually getting them (though I imagine the UK would want to hoard their supplies of Marmite and Bovril to keep them going through the hard winter).

EdgeCase

Enzokk wrote: »

Surely the only products we would have a shortage with would be specialist British products that has British ingredients. Seems that you can find most other products with a different brand name from your friendly German supermarket that would surely be sourced from the continent, right?

A lot of "British" products are also made on the continent. There's a huge amount of big brand items that may be packed in the UK for localisation and we're generally getting that supply. They're classified as UK exports but in a lot of cases they're not.

It applies to a lot of consumer goods sold here.

There's an issue in shifting supply chains around but it's not impossible. You're looking at possible disruption and unfamiliar brands rather than actual shortages.

Ireland's a small but very lucrative market for consumer goods. It's not anymore likely to be abandoned than Sweden or Denmark.

robinph

Enzokk wrote: »

Surely the only products we would have a shortage with would be specialist British products that has British ingredients. Seems that you can find most other products with a different brand name from your friendly German supermarket that would surely be sourced from the continent, right?

The biggest issue for Ireland would be the lorries and boats having to go the long way round from France, or setup a transport corridor along the lines for the Berlin airlift until some bigger/ faster boats and more planes/ runways are sorted out. Other than maybe losing out on fresh Jaffa Cakes I'm not sure Ireland will miss out on much that the UK supplies.

Will just need the manufactures in the rest of Europe to stick stuff in boxes with English writing on rather than it currently being done for the UK market with a bit siphoned off for Ireland...or you all have to learn to read French/ German.