New York Jets Thread

Igotadose · 04-11-2018 9:02pm

cha-cha football: 1, 2, 3, Kick! 1, 2, 3, Kick!

phatkev · 04-11-2018 9:35pm

Spencer Long needs to be cut in the morning! Whoever is keeping him in the game needs to go as well!

corner back 2 · 04-11-2018 10:13pm

Holy sh1t that was beyond bad.

phatkev · 04-11-2018 10:17pm

This fcuking guy! yeah everything was fine apart from the fact your rookie QB was getting destroying on every single down!

https://twitter.com/ByKimberleyA/status/1059191857241096194

Igotadose · 05-11-2018 8:51am

phatkev wrote: »

This fcuking guy! yeah everything was fine apart from the fact your rookie QB was getting destroying on every single down!

Surely there's *someone* on the roster that can do a shotgun snap. The ball was regularly at Darnold's ankles ffs.

Back-to-back 15 yard penalties on the Fish on one drive and nothing to show for it. I shut the game off then. (It helped that the nflstreams were dying at that point.)

Also seems like Darnold had happy feet which is a bad sign, but the O-line is turning out to be as bad as predicted.

So hard to watch. They're boring. I don't watch that many games and I can predict the playcalling, 2d down, run, 2d down, run. 1 2 3 kick.

LuckyLloyd · 05-11-2018 9:41am

Great game from the D, hung in there for four quarters and held Miami to 6 points. A superb effort. And then their QB threw the game away to Miami...

That may have been the last stand from a lot of players. No point playing hard behind when Darnold is under centre this year. Some players will quit / think about next season, right or wrong.

Igotadose · 05-11-2018 10:16am

Yeah, the team's looking as bad as it has in the last 5 or 6 years right now. Darnold's shown occasional flashes is all. I can see finishing like 4-12 and drafting for the O line this year. Darnold had both his #1 and #2 target WR's playing, and couldn't get into the end zone once.

Dreadful team.

As for the defense, well, they're getting a lot of practice. Plenty of missed plays on them, too, and really it's small comfort to be happy about the defense when they're on the field all the damn time. It's an o.k. defense, not a great one, that looks o.k. against terrible teams and lost against good ones. The celebrating when they make a play is tedious, they're not a shutdown defense at all, and a better team will shred them. The Patriot's game is going to be ugly, I can see the Patriots going for the jugular early and just pinning their ears back on defense blitzing Darnold silly.

Bowles should be gone before the end of the season. Reports are the locker room's coming apart, that's on the coach. Players are quoted saying they're pissed off, especially the ones who've only known losing since joining the team.

LuckyLloyd · 05-11-2018 10:23am

Bowles is gone, right or wrong. Irrelevant discussing him anymore.

That D - given the context they have to deal with - is doing great. They should be celebrating every little win as they are way exceeding reasonable expectations picking up a horrrendous offense as best they can.

Everything is all in on Darnold now. He’s currently bottom of the league. He’ll need to get a lot better over the coming off season and beyond. He was horrendous yesterday. Kearse looks like he can’t be dealing with him.

corner back 2 · 05-11-2018 10:46am

Don't know how you can blame Darnold for Kearses performance. Darnold was poor but Kearse was inexcusable. Ridiculous to suggest that the players will give up because of the QB. Read Andersons comments after the game yesterday and it will give you a fair idea of who the players blame. How any coaching staff could leave Long in the game until the 4th quarter is unbelievable. While the rookie is having a bad time he is not been given very favourable conditions to succeed.

LuckyLloyd · 05-11-2018 11:24am

corner back 2 wrote: »

Don't know how you can blame Darnold for Kearses performance. Darnold was poor but Kearse was inexcusable. Ridiculous to suggest that the players will give up because of the QB. Read Andersons comments after the game yesterday and it will give you a fair idea of who the players blame. How any coaching staff could leave Long in the game until the 4th quarter is unbelievable. While the rookie is having a bad time he is not been given very favourable conditions to succeed.

Look, Bowles is gone. I accept that. But I'm just starting to focus in on what's important going forward: Darnold. It's ugly. Rookie QBs don't get good situations to start out (it's becoming clearer that he shouldn't have been played this year with every week that passes) so I understand we have to focus on qualities and positive indicators. But he looked flat out uncomfortable and inaccurate yesterday. Some of the passes to Kearse in particular were atrocious.

As bad as the O line might have been he has some talent in the receiving core and the D kept giving him viable opportunities. Ye can criticize the play calling but at the end of the day he threw some awful balls yesterday. Another bad week next week and they'll have to think about pulling him. The worst possible outcome.

corner back 2 · 05-11-2018 11:45am

Still nothing to be gained from benching him. Some obvious and simple adjustments can be made to improve the situation. 1 play a center who can snap the ball. 2 play an RB who can pass block. 3 try calling pass plays to your best tight end eg Herndon. 4 don't keep calling screens to your slowest players. 5 try making in game adjustments if something not working. 6 stop going with empty sets when QB is constantly being pressured.

phatkev · 05-11-2018 11:48am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Look, Bowles is gone. I accept that. But I'm just starting to focus in on what's important going forward: Darnold. It's ugly. Rookie QBs don't get good situations to start out (it's becoming clearer that he shouldn't have been played this year with every week that passes) so I understand we have to focus on qualities and positive indicators. But he looked flat out uncomfortable and inaccurate yesterday. Some of the passes to Kearse in particular were atrocious.

As bad as the O line might have been he has some talent in the receiving core and the D kept giving him viable opportunities. Ye can criticize the play calling but at the end of the day he threw some awful balls yesterday. Another bad week next week and they'll have to think about pulling him. The worst possible outcome.

Of course he was uncomfortable, QB is all about getting into a rhythm and when you've a center thats constantly snapping balls at your ankles or over your head its going to be hard to set any sort of rhythm. When a rookie QB (or any QB for that matter) is forced to focus on where the snap is going to go instead of their pre snap reads your going to have problems!

Kearse gave up and that says more about him than Darnold, it was a pathetic showing from the so called veteran yesterday. I cant begin to think how anybody could defend him!

I said at the start of the season I didn’t expect much this season, somewhere in the region of 4/6 wins. The one thing I did expect was for the coaching staff to develop Darnold, right now its clear their not capable of that so they can gtfo!

hots · 05-11-2018 12:22pm

Terrible game and the straw for Bowles & co for me. I can't see the blame being laid at Darnold's feet though. He had a poor game and should have had another pick too probably, but he spent every play playing catcher to mental snaps and then dodging edge pressure from both sides every time. No run game to support him either.

The most mental thing has to be Bowles inability to make a decision, at pretty much any point. Long was playing with 2 fingers and has been sub-par all year, it was obvious in the first quarter he was ****ed and yet still he was left in and still we were taking shotgun snaps every play? That's not even a coaching call, it's just common sense.

LuckyLloyd · 05-11-2018 1:50pm

corner back 2 wrote: »

Still nothing to be gained from benching him. Some obvious and simple adjustments can be made to improve the situation. 1 play a center who can snap the ball. 2 play an RB who can pass block. 3 try calling pass plays to your best tight end eg Herndon. 4 don't keep calling screens to your slowest players. 5 try making in game adjustments if something not working. 6 stop going with empty sets when QB is constantly being pressured.

Nothing to be gained but - at a certain point - there is plenty to be saved. Last three weeks he's 52 of 110 (47%) for 2 TDs and 7 Interceptions and his general stat ratings (whichever one you prefer) have been way below replacement level. You can't keep going like this because you'll shatter his confidence and build an intolerable level of media / fan pressure around his play. Rather have McCown take those lumps - he's getting paid handsomely to do so.

LuckyLloyd · 05-11-2018 1:57pm

phatkev wrote: »

Of course he was uncomfortable, QB is all about getting into a rhythm and when you've a center thats constantly snapping balls at your ankles or over your head its going to be hard to set any sort of rhythm. When a rookie QB (or any QB for that matter) is forced to focus on where the snap is going to go instead of their pre snap reads your going to have problems!

Kearse gave up and that says more about him than Darnold, it was a pathetic showing from the so called veteran yesterday. I cant begin to think how anybody could defend him!

I said at the start of the season I didn’t expect much this season, somewhere in the region of 4/6 wins. The one thing I did expect was for the coaching staff to develop Darnold, right now its clear their not capable of that so they can gtfo!

I said right or wrong on players giving up. They're human. What's the point in constantly running and cutting hard to generate separation when the ball comes at you all wrong? Sure, shake it off. One drive, one quarter, one game but three games in succession? Players lose faith. It takes a truly great pro to keep putting forth your best effort in these situations. None of our offensive players are going to the Hall or making an All Pro list any time soon. They're not even pro bowlers ffs!

And this serves to undermine your final point. We don't have the fundamental structural pieces on offense to develop a rookie. At a certain point its dangerous abuse of a highly valuable future asset to keep him out there without the tools around him.

I'm hoping Allen doesn't play for the Bills next week and the game script is kept super manageable and run heavy.

phatkev · 05-11-2018 4:04pm

QB development comes down to far more than just the personal on the field though! The only two major differences between last years offence and this one is the QB and the OC. Last year Morton came into games and used his play calling to scheme guys open, Morton was making McCowns job easy not the other way around. A rookie QB needs a coaching staff that understands what their working with and how to play to the players strengths and weaknesses, Darnold doesn’t have this with the current staff.

The commentators mentioned yesterday about coaches scripting there first 20 plays or so, when Bates had reached this number they said they’d be interested to see how he changed it up considering the first 20 plays went no where. Not only did Bates not even attempt to change his play calling he left it the very same as it was and got the very same results, hardly surprising!
As someone already mentioned in this thread they could tell the plays that were about to be ran, if a fan can tell you whats coming next a defensive coordinator is going to have a field day, which he did! How does Darnold stand a chance of development when this is what he has to work with.

hots · 06-11-2018 10:25am

phatkev wrote: »

The commentators mentioned yesterday about coaches scripting there first 20 plays or so, when Bates had reached this number they said they’d be interested to see how he changed it up considering the first 20 plays went no where. Not only did Bates not even attempt to change his play calling he left it the very same as it was and got the very same results, hardly surprising!
As someone already mentioned in this thread they could tell the plays that were about to be ran, if a fan can tell you whats coming next a defensive coordinator is going to have a field day, which he did! How does Darnold stand a chance of development when this is what he has to work with.

That was something that stood out massively for me, there was no switch up at all, or any discernible style that I could see either.

Dolphins are poor enough but they mixed up their game early with some easy checkdowns, some slightly varied run game and some medium distance throws. Hardly rocket science stuff but still made ours looked ill-equipped.

LuckyLloyd · 06-11-2018 12:00pm

**** sake. The Dolphins got completely shut down on offense Sunday!! How was their game plan better than ours? They kicked two field goals and were gifted the winning TD by Darnold.

We had 15 first downs to their 7
We had 64 plays to their 55
We had 282 yards to their 168
We won time of possession

And yet we have posters here saying our D isn't special, that they were celebrating too much (:rolleyes:) and now saying their Offensive game planning made ours look poor?

We won the ****ing game. We had them locked down and were superior where it counted. Then we threw three interceptions in our last four drives, one of which was a floater walk in pick six. Ridiculous.

hots · 06-11-2018 1:04pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

**** sake. The Dolphins got completely shut down on offense Sunday!! How was their game plan better than ours? They kicked two field goals and were gifted the winning TD by Darnold.

We had 15 first downs to their 7
We had 64 plays to their 55
We had 282 yards to their 168
We won time of possession

And yet we have posters here saying our D isn't special, that they were celebrating too much (:rolleyes:) and now saying their Offensive game planning made ours look poor?

We won the ****ing game. We had them locked down and were superior where it counted. Then we threw three interceptions in our last four drives, one of which was a floater walk in pick six. Ridiculous.

I think our defense did very well, made some big stops when it mattered but I think their offensive playcalling was far superior to ours, they have almost no talent on their offense and constantly mixed up the plays. They managed to generate rushing opps regularly enough and got decent production out of them, far more than we managed. If we had a couple of running back hitting 4/5 yards instead of less than 3 yards a carry it would take a heap of pressure off an inexperienced QB.

We also put Darnold into a position to fail again, pretty much the only objective of the season was to give him an easy ride to develop. Put him in an easy position to succeed, run lots and with variance, give him a majority of quick throws, lots of screens and checkdowns, use Robby to keep the defense honest deep etc.. In contrast, we ran poorly, infrequently (we weren't chasing a cricket score, not like we had to pass every down) and almost exclusively up the middle. We had Robby coming short too often, it's not his game.

Sam had relatively little time and often was waiting to make a pass, tbf not sure how much of the responsibility is riding on his reads, the WRs not getting open or the plays selected...

hots · 06-11-2018 1:07pm

hots wrote: »

I think our defense did very well, made some big stops when it mattered but I think their offensive playcalling was far superior to ours, they have almost no talent on their offense and constantly mixed up the plays. They managed to generate rushing opps regularly enough and got decent production out of them, far more than we managed. If we had a couple of running back hitting 4/5 yards instead of less than 3 yards a carry it would take a heap of pressure off an inexperienced QB.

We also put Darnold into a position to fail again, pretty much the only objective of the season was to give him an easy ride to develop. Put him in an easy position to succeed, run lots and with variance, give him a majority of quick throws, lots of screens and checkdowns, use Robby to keep the defense honest deep etc.. In contrast, we ran poorly, infrequently (we weren't chasing a cricket score, not like we had to pass every down) and almost exclusively up the middle. We had Robby coming short too often, it's not his game.

Sam had relatively little time and often was waiting to make a pass, tbf not sure how much of the responsibility is riding on his reads, the WRs not getting open or the plays selected...

Ignore my RB production comments anyway, was looking at game1 stats.

Perception =/= reality there.

corner back 2 · 06-11-2018 2:46pm

hots wrote: »

Ignore my RB production comments anyway, was looking at game1 stats. Perception =/= reality there.

Our RB production has been rubbish apart from Denver game. You have to remember it's all Darnolds fault and players are allowed to quit because of him!!!!

hots · 06-11-2018 3:10pm

corner back 2 wrote: »

Our RB production has been rubbish apart from Denver game. You have to remember it's all Darnolds fault and players are allowed to quit because of him!!!!

:pac:

That Denver game is such a freak outlier I'd love to know what went on there, it's not like they're a really really poor defense? Sure we're missing Powell now but it's not Crow had (or has) ever shown yardage close to that before or since.

corner back 2 · 06-11-2018 3:42pm

Crowell may be a bit banged up but I think a lot has to do with the play calling. Inside run nearly every time on 2nd down. We never line up with two in the backfield and rarely do we try and run behind a TE or a pulling guard. We rarely use hurry up to try and put the opposition off balance or even try some run pass option. As has been said earlier the fans are successfully predicting what plays the Jets are going to call so it can't be that hard to play against for an NFL D coordinator. The other problem is there is never any in-game adjustment and when teams feel that we can't move the ball through the air we become very easy to play against.

LuckyLloyd · 06-11-2018 3:49pm

corner back 2 wrote: »

Our RB production has been rubbish apart from Denver game. You have to remember it's all Darnolds fault and players are allowed to quit because of him!!!!

They will quit, whether they should be allowed to is obviously another matter. Seems baffling to me that everyone here wants to discuss some terrible performances without discussing the QB, the most important position on the field.

corner back 2 · 06-11-2018 4:37pm

Have already said that Darnold needs to improve on numerous occasions but I have also stated that the Jets need to give him better conditions to succeed. Like him or not there is a huge amount of future success hanging on Darnold and the Jets need to do a few simple things to help him. Yes maybe we would have won the Dolphins game with another QB but there is no guarantee that would have happened given how bad the offense and the play calling is. I am not absolving Darnold of blame but unlike some I am not putting it all on him.

notobtuse · 07-11-2018 4:14pm

Another season down the crapper. The NFL might as well reserve the 6th draft pick for the Jets in advance of every season.

hots · 07-11-2018 6:59pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Another season down the crapper. The NFL might as well reserve the 6th draft pick for the Jets in advance of every season.

what W/L were you hoping for?

phatkev · 07-11-2018 8:35pm

Darnold out versus the Bills. Some sort of foot injury, Bowles had said Monday he wasnt aware of him being hurt so not sure if the injury is from Sunday or if it happened in training

phatkev · 07-11-2018 8:38pm

hots wrote: »

what W/L were you hoping for?

regardless of QB this was always going to be a sub .500 season, not sure why people thought it would be any better

LuckyLloyd · 08-11-2018 9:51am

Good Darnold is out, he could use a couple of weeks off. McCown under center will hopefully give a boost to everyone and the positive energy carry them to a good performance against a very beatable team ahead of the bye.

New York Jets Thread

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