Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

Pretzill · 30-05-2018 11:00PM

strandroad wrote: »

Enniskerry area has remote woodlands Ballybrack or Bray don't have; he couldn't do what he wanted to do in either of them unless at night. Perhaps he only got to Enniskerry because there were no female walkers on the way there.

Of course they do. The back road to Enniskerry runs through a quiet area and is just off the m11 in loughlinstown. This is being reported as a random attack and I can see no reason to believe otherwise. I dont see the point in surmising other scenarios - it's a little ghoulish.

Strazdas · 30-05-2018 11:14PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Based on the very limited amount of information AGS has made available, it appears that they've not found any evidence of a link between MH and JV. They are still investigating that angle I suspect, based on the adage that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

So, the working theory that's been suggested is that MH was driving on the road and came across Jastine and abducted her. That is where the 'randomness' comes into the picture. No-one can say or has said when he'd decided to abduct someone. Was it days before, or while he was in the pub, or just as soon as he saw her. The randomness relates to her being in tbe wrong place at the wrong time, rather than to his motivations.

As I've said before, if it was not random, then Jastine was a target, from as far back as whenever he decided to abduct her. That implies he knew her or at least of her, and targeted her. Again, no evidence of that has been made available and the implication is that he did not plan to take her in particular.

Another thing I'd factor in is that the killer was acting very erratically that day. He never returned home that night after the murder - perhaps he worked out people had seen him abduct Jastine or there was some other reason but everything suggests he was acting really chaotically. The police theory that he underwent a psychotic episode sounds accurate enough.

We're not even sure of what his motive was for abducting her, the only thing we know is it ended horrifically. The poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong moment but he may well have snatched another girl that evening instead and we'd be discussing a different tragedy.

tretorn · 30-05-2018 11:17PM

Did he follow the bus.

It seems too much of a co incidence that he lived in Bray and poor Jastine worked in bray. She got off the bus and was abducted within minutes.

He seemed to have had a drink problem so was probably a regular in all the pubs in Bray, Jastine may have served him and got chatting to him, maybe telling him where she lived and how she got home etc.

I suppose though if he knew the bus times there would be cctv footage of him arriving in the village shortly after the bus pulled in.

ittakestwo · 30-05-2018 11:21PM

Another thing that seems strange that he abducted her in Enniskerry then drove on to the N11 according to reports as a girl was seen distressed in a car on the N11 and then to Pucks Castle (presume he turned off at the Silver Tassie? ) But there would be a much more direct and quiet route from Enniskerry to Pucks Castle via the Enniskerry Rd and Ballycorus Rd.

tretorn · 30-05-2018 11:23PM

I feel really sorry for his poor parents and his siblings. He has destroyed both familys lives and he isnt even here to give any explanation as to why he did what he did.

None of it makes sense.

Strazdas · 30-05-2018 11:45PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

Another thing that seems strange that he abducted her in Enniskerry then drove on to the N11 according to reports as a girl was seen distressed in a car on the N11 and then to Pucks Castle (presume he turned off at the Silver Tassie? ) But there would be a much more direct and quiet route from Enniskerry to Pucks Castle via the Enniskerry Rd and Ballycorus Rd.

It's possible that he had some other plan for her and wasn't heading to Pucks Castle at all, but the whole thing went wrong on him or he panicked. If he was in a manic state, he may not have really known what he was doing nor doing anything logical.

strandroad · 31-05-2018 07:44AM

ittakestwo wrote: »

Another thing that seems strange that he abducted her in Enniskerry then drove on to the N11 according to reports as a girl was seen distressed in a car on the N11 and then to Pucks Castle (presume he turned off at the Silver Tassie? ) But there would be a much more direct and quiet route from Enniskerry to Pucks Castle via the Enniskerry Rd and Ballycorus Rd.

If the abduction was up by Powerscourt he'd have to drive through the village, perhaps he wanted to avoid being seen there.

ellejay · 31-05-2018 08:32AM

Strazdas wrote: »

That's interesting, though Gardai still appear to be going with the random stranger abduction theory (in as much that the killer would have had no reason to harm her like this, even if he possibly recognised her).

I think it's very very strange they're going with random stranger theory. It make's me wonder if there's more at play here.

I really hope it was a random stranger attack, because why else would they say that? Maybe a third party?
There are so many women walking alone, all the roads from Bray to Enniskerry and surrounding area's have walkers.
Plenty of estates have kids out playing.
He would have been able to "grab" someone much closer to home.

It's frightening to think of the "what if's"

ellejay · 31-05-2018 08:34AM

strandroad wrote: »

If the abduction was up by Powerscourt he'd have to drive through the village, perhaps he wanted to avoid being seen there.

Not necessarily, could have come up the Cookstown Road from the 21 bends, or up by Little Newtown from Kilcroney.
Could also have come in from Kilternan and taken the Forge Road.
Could have come across the mountains and down Kilgarron Hill, taken the forge Road.

2forjoy · 31-05-2018 09:49AM

I understood he drove 8 miles on the M11 from Ballybrack to Enniskerry immediately before abduction , and I don't believe this is a route you would take if you were scouting for a random female walking alone .
This is my only theory of it not been random .

Strazdas · 31-05-2018 11:35AM

ellejay wrote: »

I think it's very very strange they're going with random stranger theory. It make's me wonder if there's more at play here.

I really hope it was a random stranger attack, because why else would they say that? Maybe a third party?
There are so many women walking alone, all the roads from Bray to Enniskerry and surrounding area's have walkers.
Plenty of estates have kids out playing.
He would have been able to "grab" someone much closer to home.

It's frightening to think of the "what if's"

We're probably reading too much into everything he did. Police think he underwent some sort of psychotic episode and this probably explains why he was acting so erratically. Twenty four hours later he was sitting in a car park and trying to kill himself in a frenzy : none of this is normal or logical and that includes murdering Jastine on a summer's evening. It was a random horrific event and we'll probably never get to the bottom of why he did what he did or make any sense of it.

TomOnBoard · 31-05-2018 02:14PM

Strazdas wrote: »

We're probably reading too much into everything he did. Police think he underwent some sort of psychotic episode and this probably explains why he was acting so erratically. Twenty four hours later he was sitting in a car park and trying to kill himself in a frenzy : none of this is normal or logical and that includes murdering Jastine on a summer's evening. It was a random horrific event and we'll probably never get to the bottom of why he did what he did or make any sense of it.

I agree that a whole load of surmising and conjecture and speculation is going into Hennessy's movements and actions. Why? Because in reality we know very very little and the silence from AGS is deafening. The information vacuum is being filled by misinformation in the media and the speculation that is being based on that. In other jurisdictions there would have been regular official public press conferences to inform the public and to elicit necessary information from that public.

A clear high level timeline of known actions by Hennessy ought to be made known which might jog memories which could help fill in missing pieces of the timeline. That would also quell the speculation.

31-05-2018 02:34PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I agree that a whole load of surmising and conjecture and speculation is going into Hennessy's movements and actions. Why? Because in reality we know very very little and the silence from AGS is deafening. The information vacuum is being filled by misinformation in the media and the speculation that is being based on that. In other jurisdictions there would have been regular official public press conferences to inform the public and to elicit necessary information from that public.

A clear high level timeline of known actions by Hennessy ought to be made known which might jog memories which could help fill in missing pieces of the timeline. That would also quell the speculation.

It's not the job of AGS to keep the public updated on their investigations.
Neither is it their job to quell speculation.
If gardai need assistance from the public they will make an appeal.

Ash.J.Williams · 31-05-2018 02:44PM

random my foot

TomOnBoard · 31-05-2018 02:54PM

bubblypop wrote: »

It's not the job of AGS to keep the public updated on their investigations.
Neither is it their job to quell speculation.
If gardai need assistance from the public they will make an appeal.

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

31-05-2018 05:04PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

The public do not need to be informed about this incident.
If they need assistance they will ask.

TomOnBoard · 31-05-2018 05:11PM

bubblypop wrote: »

The public do not need to be informed about this incident.
If they need assistance they will ask.

As in "Nothing to see here ... Move along now!"??

20th Century policing has moved on in most places... Thankfully!

tara73 · 31-05-2018 05:13PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

I would agree with you if the killer wouldn't be found. But the killer is dead, the victim too, both found.

So in this case, I don't think the public needs information about details because they can't help anymore and they don't need to worry about a killer roaming free or a girl kept somewhere.

Why do you need or expect to know details at this stage?

It's just to keep the nosiness and worse, the sensationalism, satisfied imo.

Captain Obvious · 31-05-2018 05:16PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

As in "Nothing to see here ... Move along now!"??

20th Century policing has moved on in most places... Thankfully!

As in "Wait for the court case", or in this case the coroners inquest

31-05-2018 06:01PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

As in "Nothing to see here ... Move along now!"??

20th Century policing has moved on in most places... Thankfully!

No, as in, the victim is dead, the offender is dead, there is no criminal case now.
There is no need to release details to the public.

The Talking Bread · 31-05-2018 06:18PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

It's not the job of AGS to keep the public updated on their investigations.
Neither is it their job to quell speculation.
If gardai need assistance from the public they will make an appeal.

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

What do you think they need help with. .....Im sure they are clued in to this thread to gather all the credible evidence they need.

TomOnBoard · 31-05-2018 06:30PM

tara73 wrote: »

I would agree with you if the killer wouldn't be found. But the killer is dead, the victim too, both found.

So in this case, I don't think the public needs information about details because they can't help anymore and they don't need to worry about a killer roaming free or a girl kept somewhere.

Why do you need or expect to know details at this stage?

It's just to keep the nosiness and worse, the sensationalism, satisfied imo.

So the public doesn't need "information about details because they can't help anymore"?

An article from 3 day ago would disagree with you: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jastine-valdez-murder-gardai-search-for-a-series-of-items-including-nike-runners-ipad-and-reading-glasses-36955762.html

That refers to Gardai being " anxious" to speak with some ppl still.

So, unless AGS has made an announcement to the contrary in the meantime, its safe to say that an investigation is still in progress, and AGS is still looking for help.

When AGS announce that the investigation is over, it will then certainly be appropriate to wait for the Coroners inquest for further information.

tara73 · 31-05-2018 07:07PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

So the public doesn't need "information about details because they can't help anymore"?

An article from 3 day ago would disagree with you: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jastine-valdez-murder-gardai-search-for-a-series-of-items-including-nike-runners-ipad-and-reading-glasses-36955762.html

That refers to Gardai being " anxious" to speak with some ppl still.

So, unless AGS has made an announcement to the contrary in the meantime, its safe to say that an investigation is still in progress, and AGS is still looking for help.

When AGS announce that the investigation is over, it will then certainly be appropriate to wait for the Coroners inquest for further information.

do you notice anything? you sneakily try to switch your subjects now.

you were moaning why AGS doesn't inform the public about details of the case or their progress.

big difference to the subject that AGS still looking for some missing pieces like the tablet and asked the public here for help.

TomOnBoard · 31-05-2018 07:23PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What do you think they need help with. .....Im sure they are clued in to this thread to gather all the credible evidence they need.

As of right now? All this I presume:

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our-departments/office-of-corporate-communications/press-releases/2018/may/appeal-murder-investigation-jastine-valdez.html

The Talking Bread · 31-05-2018 07:50PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

As of right now? All this I presume:

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/our-departments/office-of-corporate-communications/press-releases/2018/may/appeal-murder-investigation-jastine-valdez.html

Yes, but they have already requested all this?

I am confused, what exactly extra do you want them to be asking at this junction?

notsoyoungwan · 31-05-2018 10:03PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

As in "Wait for the court case", or in this case the coroners inquest

Absolutely. Big difference between what the public are interested in knowing and what is in the public interest to be known.

01-06-2018 01:42AM

Correct me if wrong, Bray people, but I believe Jastine worked in the restaurant by the Civic Centre. Think it's called Koi. Put to bed the frankly stupid rumours of MH falling in love with her over the bar.

8-10 · 01-06-2018 08:14AM

Random abduction seems most likely for me anyway. If you wanted to grab a particular person getting off a bus in Enniskerry, why would you be in Ballybrack just 30mins before? It doesn't make sense for that to be planned, you'd think he'd have started in Bray, watch her get on the bus etc. Nothing about this to me suggests he targeted this specific woman.

ifElseThen · 01-06-2018 08:40AM

Hannibal Lecter: He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? No. We begin by coveting what we see every day.

My initial thoughts on this was that he was maybe served by Jastine who probably gave him a polite smile while serving him, shot the breeze maybe, and then he became obsessed from afar.

ellejay · 01-06-2018 10:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct me if wrong, Bray people, but I believe Jastine worked in the restaurant by the Civic Centre. Think it's called Koi. Put to bed the frankly stupid rumours of MH falling in love with her over the bar.

No, that's not the "rumour."
She worked somewhere else doing something else.

I don't know why the information hasn't been publicly released.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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