Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

tara73

Strazdas wrote: »

No evidence at all (so far) that the killer and Jastine knew each other. It's possible I guess that he might have been aware of her in a crazed stalker type of way but Gardai have found zero evidence of any contact between them.

What I can imagine is this stalker thing. I hope I recall it rightly that she worked in a bar in Bray. It's possible he frequented that bar and she caught his eye.

So she maybe served him drinks, took the money from him but never really noticed him contrary to him.
Maybe he followed her around in his car, finding out where she lives, what are her times to get out of the house etc.
I think it's possible, but it's pure speculation and it doesn't really matter at this stage anyway.

Strazdas

tara73 wrote: »

What I can imagine is this stalker thing. I hope I recall it rightly that she worked in a bar in Bray. It's possible he frequented that bar and she caught his eye.

So she maybe served him drinks, took the money from him but never really noticed him contrary to him.
Maybe he followed her around in his car, finding out where she lives, what are her times to get out of the house etc.
I think it's possible, but it's pure speculation and it doesn't really matter at this stage anyway.

That could certainly be a possibility Tara, but so far they don't even seem to have made that connection ie. someone remembering that he regularly came in to a place where she used to work. They can't find any link at all (unless he was stalking her without she even realising it or knowing who he was).

The fact that he was acting so erratically both before and after the murder might suggest that their theory that he had some sort of disturbed mental episode and attacked a random and innocent stranger may be the correct one. It's hard for us to even get our heads around such a horrible thought.

ellejay

Strazdas wrote: »

It appears to have been complete rubbish. It's possible the poster heard some made up rumour and took it as gospel. So far investigators have found no evidence whatsoever of any link between Jastine and that individual. The best theory they have at the moment is that he underwent some form of psychotic episode that evening and snatched a random girl off the street.

According to half of Bray, there is actually a tenuous link.
Hennessy frequented a place that Jastine worked in.
If they knew each other or not....no one knows.

RacoonQueen

cagefactor wrote: »

Since Tinder is tied to FB they would have all of the details already if they were both on it communicating. There are no reports saying she had a tinder account. Also I dont see any reports from anyone saying they match with him on Tinder or her for that matter so the Tinder bit may not be true at all.

Strazdas wrote: »

I believe there was some talk about the killer being on Tinder but I was also reading they can find absolutely no connection with Jastine, not even the slightest hint of contact with her anywhere, either online or elsewhere.

Yeah, he and the other poster here are the only place I heard anything like this. I was only earwigging on guy in work as it was pretty annoying. Bordering on victim blaming so if I listened any more I may have actually hit him.

Strazdas

ellejay wrote: »

According to half of Bray, there is actually a tenuous link.
Hennessy frequented a place that Jastine worked in.
If they knew each other or not....no one knows.

That's interesting, though Gardai still appear to be going with the random stranger abduction theory (in as much that the killer would have had no reason to harm her like this, even if he possibly recognised her).

mynamejeff

this thread is grotesque

ignorant people making offensive baseless suggestions and poorly informed statements

im out

Pretzill

2forjoy wrote: »

Saw on Dublin live about the true story regarding the detective shooting him .
My opinion is that when I saw clip if MH leaving Bray car park he seemed to be in a hurry. So I reckon he planned this as he knew she would be getting off the bus.
Not a random attack at all. Imo.

That video clip was of him leaving church rd in ballybrack - a bit of a distance from a bus leaving Bray.

paw patrol

mynamejeff wrote: »

this thread is grotesque

ignorant people making offensive baseless suggestions and poorly informed statements

im out

At least we have you here with your moral grandstanding to bring us back down to earth

Suckit

paw patrol wrote: »

At least we have you here with your moral grandstanding to bring us back down to earth

Not any more...

2forjoy

Pretzill wrote: »

That video clip was of him leaving church rd in ballybrack - a bit of a distance from a bus leaving Bray.

30 minutes before the abduction at 5.41pm , he was on Church Road Ballybrack , and he then drove 10 miles to Enniskerry to abduct.


Its not random enough for me . Enniskerry is not on a direct route to either Ballybrack or Bray , and hadn't he told his wife he was gone for the evening drinking in Ballybrack .


I believe he had a reason to go to Enniskerry .

strandroad

2forjoy wrote: »

I believe he had a reason to go to Enniskerry .

Enniskerry area has remote woodlands Ballybrack or Bray don't have; he couldn't do what he wanted to do in either of them unless at night. Perhaps he only got to Enniskerry because there were no female walkers on the way there.

TomOnBoard

2forjoy wrote: »

30 minutes before the abduction at 5.41pm , he was on Church Road Ballybrack , and he then drove 10 miles to Enniskerry to abduct.


Its not random enough for me . Enniskerry is not on a direct route to either Ballybrack or Bray , and hadn't he told his wife he was gone for the evening drinking in Ballybrack .


I believe he had a reason to go to Enniskerry .

Based on the very limited amount of information AGS has made available, it appears that they've not found any evidence of a link between MH and JV. They are still investigating that angle I suspect, based on the adage that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

So, the working theory that's been suggested is that MH was driving on the road and came across Jastine and abducted her. That is where the 'randomness' comes into the picture. No-one can say or has said when he'd decided to abduct someone. Was it days before, or while he was in the pub, or just as soon as he saw her. The randomness relates to her being in tbe wrong place at the wrong time, rather than to his motivations.

As I've said before, if it was not random, then Jastine was a target, from as far back as whenever he decided to abduct her. That implies he knew her or at least of her, and targeted her. Again, no evidence of that has been made available and the implication is that he did not plan to take her in particular.

Pretzill

strandroad wrote: »

Enniskerry area has remote woodlands Ballybrack or Bray don't have; he couldn't do what he wanted to do in either of them unless at night. Perhaps he only got to Enniskerry because there were no female walkers on the way there.

Of course they do. The back road to Enniskerry runs through a quiet area and is just off the m11 in loughlinstown. This is being reported as a random attack and I can see no reason to believe otherwise. I dont see the point in surmising other scenarios - it's a little ghoulish.

Strazdas

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Based on the very limited amount of information AGS has made available, it appears that they've not found any evidence of a link between MH and JV. They are still investigating that angle I suspect, based on the adage that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

So, the working theory that's been suggested is that MH was driving on the road and came across Jastine and abducted her. That is where the 'randomness' comes into the picture. No-one can say or has said when he'd decided to abduct someone. Was it days before, or while he was in the pub, or just as soon as he saw her. The randomness relates to her being in tbe wrong place at the wrong time, rather than to his motivations.

As I've said before, if it was not random, then Jastine was a target, from as far back as whenever he decided to abduct her. That implies he knew her or at least of her, and targeted her. Again, no evidence of that has been made available and the implication is that he did not plan to take her in particular.

Another thing I'd factor in is that the killer was acting very erratically that day. He never returned home that night after the murder - perhaps he worked out people had seen him abduct Jastine or there was some other reason but everything suggests he was acting really chaotically. The police theory that he underwent a psychotic episode sounds accurate enough.

We're not even sure of what his motive was for abducting her, the only thing we know is it ended horrifically. The poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong moment but he may well have snatched another girl that evening instead and we'd be discussing a different tragedy.

tretorn

Did he follow the bus.

It seems too much of a co incidence that he lived in Bray and poor Jastine worked in bray. She got off the bus and was abducted within minutes.

He seemed to have had a drink problem so was probably a regular in all the pubs in Bray, Jastine may have served him and got chatting to him, maybe telling him where she lived and how she got home etc.

I suppose though if he knew the bus times there would be cctv footage of him arriving in the village shortly after the bus pulled in.

ittakestwo

Another thing that seems strange that he abducted her in Enniskerry then drove on to the N11 according to reports as a girl was seen distressed in a car on the N11 and then to Pucks Castle (presume he turned off at the Silver Tassie? ) But there would be a much more direct and quiet route from Enniskerry to Pucks Castle via the Enniskerry Rd and Ballycorus Rd.

tretorn

I feel really sorry for his poor parents and his siblings. He has destroyed both familys lives and he isnt even here to give any explanation as to why he did what he did.

None of it makes sense.

Strazdas

ittakestwo wrote: »

Another thing that seems strange that he abducted her in Enniskerry then drove on to the N11 according to reports as a girl was seen distressed in a car on the N11 and then to Pucks Castle (presume he turned off at the Silver Tassie? ) But there would be a much more direct and quiet route from Enniskerry to Pucks Castle via the Enniskerry Rd and Ballycorus Rd.

It's possible that he had some other plan for her and wasn't heading to Pucks Castle at all, but the whole thing went wrong on him or he panicked. If he was in a manic state, he may not have really known what he was doing nor doing anything logical.

strandroad

ittakestwo wrote: »

Another thing that seems strange that he abducted her in Enniskerry then drove on to the N11 according to reports as a girl was seen distressed in a car on the N11 and then to Pucks Castle (presume he turned off at the Silver Tassie? ) But there would be a much more direct and quiet route from Enniskerry to Pucks Castle via the Enniskerry Rd and Ballycorus Rd.

If the abduction was up by Powerscourt he'd have to drive through the village, perhaps he wanted to avoid being seen there.

ellejay

Strazdas wrote: »

That's interesting, though Gardai still appear to be going with the random stranger abduction theory (in as much that the killer would have had no reason to harm her like this, even if he possibly recognised her).

I think it's very very strange they're going with random stranger theory. It make's me wonder if there's more at play here.

I really hope it was a random stranger attack, because why else would they say that? Maybe a third party?
There are so many women walking alone, all the roads from Bray to Enniskerry and surrounding area's have walkers.
Plenty of estates have kids out playing.
He would have been able to "grab" someone much closer to home.

It's frightening to think of the "what if's"

ellejay

strandroad wrote: »

If the abduction was up by Powerscourt he'd have to drive through the village, perhaps he wanted to avoid being seen there.

Not necessarily, could have come up the Cookstown Road from the 21 bends, or up by Little Newtown from Kilcroney.
Could also have come in from Kilternan and taken the Forge Road.
Could have come across the mountains and down Kilgarron Hill, taken the forge Road.

2forjoy

I understood he drove 8 miles on the M11 from Ballybrack to Enniskerry immediately before abduction , and I don't believe this is a route you would take if you were scouting for a random female walking alone .
This is my only theory of it not been random .

Strazdas

ellejay wrote: »

I think it's very very strange they're going with random stranger theory. It make's me wonder if there's more at play here.

I really hope it was a random stranger attack, because why else would they say that? Maybe a third party?
There are so many women walking alone, all the roads from Bray to Enniskerry and surrounding area's have walkers.
Plenty of estates have kids out playing.
He would have been able to "grab" someone much closer to home.

It's frightening to think of the "what if's"

We're probably reading too much into everything he did. Police think he underwent some sort of psychotic episode and this probably explains why he was acting so erratically. Twenty four hours later he was sitting in a car park and trying to kill himself in a frenzy : none of this is normal or logical and that includes murdering Jastine on a summer's evening. It was a random horrific event and we'll probably never get to the bottom of why he did what he did or make any sense of it.

TomOnBoard

Strazdas wrote: »

We're probably reading too much into everything he did. Police think he underwent some sort of psychotic episode and this probably explains why he was acting so erratically. Twenty four hours later he was sitting in a car park and trying to kill himself in a frenzy : none of this is normal or logical and that includes murdering Jastine on a summer's evening. It was a random horrific event and we'll probably never get to the bottom of why he did what he did or make any sense of it.

I agree that a whole load of surmising and conjecture and speculation is going into Hennessy's movements and actions. Why? Because in reality we know very very little and the silence from AGS is deafening. The information vacuum is being filled by misinformation in the media and the speculation that is being based on that. In other jurisdictions there would have been regular official public press conferences to inform the public and to elicit necessary information from that public.

A clear high level timeline of known actions by Hennessy ought to be made known which might jog memories which could help fill in missing pieces of the timeline. That would also quell the speculation.

TomOnBoard

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I agree that a whole load of surmising and conjecture and speculation is going into Hennessy's movements and actions. Why? Because in reality we know very very little and the silence from AGS is deafening. The information vacuum is being filled by misinformation in the media and the speculation that is being based on that. In other jurisdictions there would have been regular official public press conferences to inform the public and to elicit necessary information from that public.

A clear high level timeline of known actions by Hennessy ought to be made known which might jog memories which could help fill in missing pieces of the timeline. That would also quell the speculation.

It's not the job of AGS to keep the public updated on their investigations.
Neither is it their job to quell speculation.
If gardai need assistance from the public they will make an appeal.

Ash.J.Williams

random my foot

TomOnBoard

bubblypop wrote: »

It's not the job of AGS to keep the public updated on their investigations.
Neither is it their job to quell speculation.
If gardai need assistance from the public they will make an appeal.

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

TomOnBoard

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

The public do not need to be informed about this incident.
If they need assistance they will ask.

TomOnBoard

bubblypop wrote: »

The public do not need to be informed about this incident.
If they need assistance they will ask.

As in "Nothing to see here ... Move along now!"??

20th Century policing has moved on in most places... Thankfully!

tara73

TomOnBoard wrote: »

In societies where the police keep the public officially informed and depend on public help in an investigation, press conferences are a crucial piece of the two-way relationship between the policing authorities and the community they serve. Simple as!

I would agree with you if the killer wouldn't be found. But the killer is dead, the victim too, both found.

So in this case, I don't think the public needs information about details because they can't help anymore and they don't need to worry about a killer roaming free or a girl kept somewhere.

Why do you need or expect to know details at this stage?

It's just to keep the nosiness and worse, the sensationalism, satisfied imo.