Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

knucklehead6 · 22-05-2018 02:42PM

kingofclay wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing but if only the driver had followed Hennessy and called for backup(Called the Guards while following him). People should try to be more tuned in. Too bad it was a middle aged women that was behind, and not a gang of young lads.

You can be pretty sure that she is asking herself the same thing... Another of the victims in this case.

o1s1n · 22-05-2018 02:42PM

Anyone else get really annoyed after reading cases such as this that women aren't allowed to carry pepper spray here legally?

Some form of self defense should be allowed. Waiting it out in the hopes that the Gardaí will show up (or that they'll even know what's happening to you) just isn't enough, especially when a non lethal deterrent is available.

If folks are that afraid of undesirables using it, then license it to people like in Switzerland and Sweden.

BattleCorp · 22-05-2018 02:42PM

kingofclay wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing but if only the driver had followed Hennessy and called for backup(Called the Guards while following him). People should try to be more tuned in.

I saw a woman being assaulted once. I tried to intervene to help her and then both her and her boyfriend attacked me. I can understand why people don't want to get involved.

EarlSlick · 22-05-2018 02:45PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I saw a woman being assaulted once. I tried to intervene to help her and then both her and her boyfriend attacked me. I can understand why people don't want to get involved.

I too intervened once upon a time when i saw a guy aggressively shoving and grabbing a woman on the street. As with yourself, both parties told me in no uncertain terms to mind my own f**kin business

Shurimgreat · 22-05-2018 02:46PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Anyone else get really annoyed after reading cases such as this that women aren't allowed to carry pepper spray here legally?

Some form of self defense should be allowed. Waiting it out in the hopes that the Gardaí will show up (or that they'll even know what's happening to you) just isn't enough, especially when a non lethal deterrent is available.

If folks are that afraid of undesirables using it, then license it to people like in Switzerland and Sweden.

Its a tricky one. No problem giving pepper spray to women to defend themselves. But as we know with all weapons, it will more likely be misused.

A better option might be a mobile phone or watch with tracker which alerts gardai or family.

o1s1n · 22-05-2018 02:53PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its a tricky one. No problem giving pepper spray to women to defend themselves. But as we know with all weapons, it will more likely be misused. So jilted women spraying men or rival women. Men also using it on women to disarm them. Men using it on each other in fights. Kids using it on each other etc etc.

A better option might be a mobile phone or watch with tracker which alerts gardai or family.

I do know what you mean, however people already use a tonne of items incorrectly in criminal/dangerous ways (knifes, bleach, tools, sports equipment, bricks (!) therefore I don't see pepper spray being added to that list to make much of a difference. If someone wants to harm someone they have the means currently available already, and legally.

On the flip side, allowing people to use it as self defense could potentially make a huge (and non lethal) difference to some particularly hairy situations.

mynamejeff · 22-05-2018 02:56PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

After listening to Dr. Ciara Kelly on Newstalk today I feel it is my duty to apologise for being a male.

I'm Sorry.

she is the only reason i no longer listen to newstalk ,

22-05-2018 02:56PM

knucklehead6 wrote: »

You can be pretty sure that she is asking herself the same thing... Another of the victims in this case.

I’ve said it before on this thread, but I, for one, would not be able to give chase whilst phoning Gardai and driving winding country roads st high speed. Phone in one hand, steering wheel in the other, and the gear leaver in whatever other hand might be left. Not everyone has Bluetooth operational in their car. He was apparently driving like a maniac with tyres screeching, and more fatalities could have resulted with other non experienced joining in the “rally driving” on these roads.

ellejay · 22-05-2018 02:58PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Bloody hell. Awful turn of events and the poster stating that they had personal details from a gardai but didn't want to share it and yet they come on boards what B.S. and shame on you.

Doubt it came from a gaurda, it's been all over Bray and Enniskerry since Sunday.

22-05-2018 03:00PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

she is the only reason i no longer listen to newstalk ,

I wonder what she is like at her “main job”, that of GP. Thought all the doctors keep complaining on the media that there’s not enough of themselves to cover the primary care needs of the country.

22-05-2018 03:02PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd say he just went mental.

He was known to abuse alcohol and drugs, ie take them to the extent they rendered him antisocial and lawless

22-05-2018 03:07PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its a tricky one. No problem giving pepper spray to women to defend themselves. But as we know with all weapons, it will more likely be misused.

A better option might be a mobile phone or watch with tracker which alerts gardai or family.

That sounds like a great idea, a tracker alert app, and of course penalties for its deliberate misuse.

Shurimgreat · 22-05-2018 03:09PM

o1s1n wrote: »

I do know what you mean, however people already use a tonne of items incorrectly in criminal/dangerous ways (knifes, bleach, tools, sports equipment, bricks (!) therefore I don't see pepper spray being added to that list to make much of a difference. If someone wants to harm someone they have the means currently available already, and legally.

On the flip side, allowing people to use it as self defense could potentially make a huge (and non lethal) difference to some particularly hairy situations.

Pepper spray could be used in a large number of circumstances to disable someone, including to disable the owner of the pepper spray. I can see it being used in arguments in pubs and nightclubs or by teenagers in schools if it becomes freely available.

Flooding a country with more weapons never really works and causes more problems than it solves.

I have no problem giving women a method of self defense but can we be sure that its not used in the wrong way.

If a woman is being attacked and was trying to get to the pepper spray whats to stop her attacker taking it and using it against her.

AAAAAAAAA · 22-05-2018 03:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He was known to abuse alcohol and drugs, ie take them to the extent they rendered him antisocial and lawless

aka he got two convictions, one for possession of cannabis and one for being drunk and disorderly, both twenty years ago, and was going to court for drunk driving next month. He's not exactly the obvious profile for kidnapping murderer

fatknacker · 22-05-2018 03:17PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Those boys, who are only suspects, are 13 and mark is 40 so not even same generation if that was even a thing

Hence why I said "next generation"

sightband · 22-05-2018 03:22PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

she is the only reason i no longer listen to newstalk ,

what? and not paul williams???

AVFC.Stephen · 22-05-2018 03:26PM

bullvine wrote: »

Hes from the Brack.. but actually lived in the noggin as a kid but dont hold that against us.

I knew him as a teenager.

I didn't know him well but never thought of any malice from him. I know a good few of his relations too which I have got on well with.

He was in DL college for a while. He was pretty quiet then. This was around 2008. Still find it hard to believe this has happened.

Strazdas · 22-05-2018 03:34PM

AVFC.Stephen wrote: »

I didn't know him well but never thought of any malice from him. I know a good few of his relations too which I have got on well with.

He was in DL college for a while. He was pretty quiet then. This was around 2008. Still find it hard to believe this has happened.

One wonders if he was undergoing some mental health issues. Murdering a young girl in broad daylight, going on the run and then attempting suicide and leaving a suicide note doesn't sound normal in any way.

chicorytip · 22-05-2018 03:35PM

ifElseThen wrote:

When the ERU (I know they didn't shoot in this incident) shot John Carthy way back when, the subsequent invited FBI investigation concluded that the main problem with the Garda actions on the day was that they waited too long to fatally Mr Carthy.

John Carthy was an unwell individual with a long history of psychiatric problems. This was well known. The situation could have been handled differently without the fatal outcome that transpired. I think that was the broad point of view at the time.

AVFC.Stephen · 22-05-2018 03:39PM

Strazdas wrote: »

One wonders if he was undergoing some mental health issues. Murdering a young girl in broad daylight, going on the run and then attempting suicide and leaving a suicide note doesn't sound normal in any way.

I don't think I have bumped into him since 2008 so I guess a lot can happen in 10 years. I would of never thought he was capable of this back then... or anyone I have ever met for that matter.

Strazdas · 22-05-2018 03:41PM

RTE Radio addressing the rumours that the murderer and Jastine knew each other but say that so far, there is nothing to indicate that these rumours are correct. The belief is it was a random abduction.

22-05-2018 03:44PM

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

aka he got two convictions, one for possession of cannabis and one for being drunk and disorderly, both twenty years ago, and was going to court for drunk driving next month. He's not exactly the obvious profile for kidnapping murderer

Unfortunately addiction can spiral right out of control and lead people to act in ways their sober selves abhor. I have a feeling we might be hearing stories of how he tried to beat his demons at various times, but failed in the long run. Apparently he had remorse in the cold light of day, which your average serial killer psychopath wouldn't. It doesn't bring Jastine back, but maybe in distant future years may provide a tiny grain of solace to those he left behind and for his poor kids.

strandroad · 22-05-2018 03:45PM

Strazdas wrote: »

One wonders if he was undergoing some mental health issues. Murdering a young girl in broad daylight, going on the run and then attempting suicide and leaving a suicide note doesn't sound normal in any way.

He still went to socialise when he thought he'd get away with it, that's cold. Only later he realised that he wouldn't.

AVFC.Stephen · 22-05-2018 03:47PM

Strazdas wrote: »

RTE Radio addressing the rumours that the murderer and Jastine knew each other but say that so far, there is nothing to indicate that these rumours are correct. The belief is it was a random abduction.

I be surprised if it was in the ramblers. If it's still the same as it was it's a kip.

Textronic · 22-05-2018 03:51PM

DwightSchrute1 wrote: »

It appears to have been a detective that shot him. As far I am aware, Gardai are trained to kill, not disable. I think you have been watching too many John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies if you think it works like that.

You havent been watching enough Clint Eastwood movies if you think he ever shot to disable someone

chicorytip · 22-05-2018 03:52PM

Tippex wrote:

Yes they are but the ERU are not the ones who shot it was a local detective from shankill afaik.

DwightSchrute1 wrote:

It appears to have been a detective that shot him. As far I am aware, Gardai are trained to kill, not disable. I think you have been watching too many John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies if you think it works like that.

Ok, it was a local detective who, I presume, is fully trained in handling of firearms. If the training manual instruction is "shoot to kill" in all instances where the life of an officer is at risk, this needs to be revised in order to take into account the level of that risk. The level of risk posed by a gang of armed robbers, let's say, cannot be deemed as equal to that posed by a lone male armed with a Stanley knife.

22-05-2018 03:53PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

After listening to Dr. Ciara Kelly on Newstalk today I feel it is my duty to apologise for being a male.

I'm Sorry.

I feel it is my duty to roll my eyes after reading your insulting apology

Stonedpilot · 22-05-2018 03:57PM

kingofclay wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing but if only the driver had followed Hennessy and called for backup(Called the Guards while following him). People should try to be more tuned in. Too bad it was a middle aged women that was behind, and not a gang of young lads.

*But I heard she was sitting in the pub and saw it through a window. That was my impression.

Probably in shock. I remember seeing bizarre things before and going into shock.

Anyway lets say she did chase after him you can bet a guy as unhinged as that you might be hearing of two murders now.
Would have been extremley dangerous to give chase.

Shurimgreat · 22-05-2018 04:00PM

Hindsight is a great thing.

In reality you probably should never follow or approach an armed and dangerous psycho particularly if you are a woman and the best thing is leave it to the gardai.

Its easy to make suggestions about following someone from the safety of your armchair. In realtime people react differently. Some will follow and try to intervene, others will call the gardai.

DwightSchrute1 · 22-05-2018 04:04PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Ok, it was a local detective who, I presume, is fully trained in handling of firearms. If the training manual instruction is "shoot to kill" in all instances where the life of an officer is at risk, this needs to be revised in order to take into account the level of that risk. The level of risk posed by a gang of armed robbers, let's say, cannot be deemed as equal to that posed by a lone male armed with a Stanley knife.

Once a person’s life is at risk, wether by Stanley knife or firearm, the response should be the same, and in the case, the Garda was well within his right to discharge his firearm as there was a threat to life.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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